Date   
Re: [bbfcl] Southern 43000-series PS-1s

D. Scott Chatfield
 

I did some digging on Kadee's website and it looks like they've only done cars from Southern's 262865-262899 series (assigned to CNO&TP).  These were 50-ton cars with DF loaders built in 1960.  Pullman lot #8586.

This makes sense from Kadee's standpoint since they started doing these cars before they had a cushion underframe.  But they could also do cars from Southern's 34903-34917 group, built in the same lot but with different internal fittings.  

And now that they do have a cushioned underframe, they could do the 43000-series cars.  Stick 100-ton trucks under them and Bob's your uncle.

I know I've seen a Kadee double-door 50-footer on a layout with a 43000-series number (maybe George's?) but it must have been a custom paint job, not a Kadee factory job.

Considering how many single door 50-foot PS-1s Southern had, I'm surprised Kadee has never offered one (at least to my knowledge, and there's none listed on their out-of-stock list).  Since they have done CofG and Georgia & Florida, whose cars were eventually repainted Southern, why not?

Scott Chatfield

Re: [bbfcl] Southern 43000-series PS-1s

George Eichelberger
 

The reason Kadee has done only that car is simple…I think.

Until very recently Kadee has not made a Morton roofwalk. Although that was the far and away favorite of the Southern, for some reason the one group pf PS cars were built with Blaw-Knox rectangular style roofwalks. To Kadee’s credit, they would not sell a model missing that part. I expect now that they have produced Morton roofwalks (and brake steps?), we will see more Southern box cars from them. They have one coming out in January. I’ve pre-ordered a couple but I expect they are sold out already.

Another Kadee car I’d like to see in Southern is their 70-ton covered hopper. The issue with that is not the roofwalk, it is the roof. The hatch spacing on the Southern cars is not what they sell. I sent them the correct SR roof drawing several years ago, no luck on that yet.

Ike

PS To “test” metal roofwalks, they set concrete blocks on the ground at Hayne Shop, set a piece of roofwalk between them and had shop guys pile on until the Morton part sagged. As you might expect…we have the memos!


On Nov 5, 2018, at 6:43 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

I did some digging on Kadee's website and it looks like they've only done cars from Southern's 262865-262899 series (assigned to CNO&TP).  These were 50-ton cars with DF loaders built in 1960.  Pullman lot #8586.

This makes sense from Kadee's standpoint since they started doing these cars before they had a cushion underframe.  But they could also do cars from Southern's 34903-34917 group, built in the same lot but with different internal fittings.  

And now that they do have a cushioned underframe, they could do the 43000-series cars.  Stick 100-ton trucks under them and Bob's your uncle.

I know I've seen a Kadee double-door 50-footer on a layout with a 43000-series number (maybe George's?) but it must have been a custom paint job, not a Kadee factory job.

Considering how many single door 50-foot PS-1s Southern had, I'm surprised Kadee has never offered one (at least to my knowledge, and there's none listed on their out-of-stock list).  Since they have done CofG and Georgia & Florida, whose cars were eventually repainted Southern, why not?

Scott Chatfield

Re: [bbfcl] Southern 43000-series PS-1s

D. Scott Chatfield
 

So that's how Pullman mounted the power handbrake gear box in the high position:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/sout/sou43022dch.jpg


Scott Chatfield

PWRS/NARC Pullman 5077cf boxcars (HO)

D. Scott Chatfield
 

PWRS/NARC is Pacific Western Rail Systems and their manufacturing arm North American Rail Car, not to be confused with the prototype North American Car Company (NACC), a freight car lessor whose assets were bought by GE in the '80s.

Anyways, PWRS/NARC is releasing a model of Pullman's exterior post 5077cf PS-1.  Several variations actually.  One they are doing in their first release is the ex-Railbox 14000-series cars that were dumped on the Southern circa 1983 when Railbox defaulted on the notes.  (Or something to that effect.)  These cars were simply restenciled SOUTHERN and for the most part were used to hold down the rails on otherwise abandoned trackage for several years until being sold to Montana Rail Link around 1988 (if memory serves).  They just need to find one modeler who is modeling one of those long storage tracks and they'll sell out. Perhaps someone who loves modeling trees and weeds but hates turnouts and is scared silly by DCC?

But my real point in typing this is not the ex-Railboxes, but to suggest the idea of using their earlier 5077cf body (which they are selling as Penn Central and Conrail cars) to model the Southern's thousand car fleet of similar 5023cf Pullman boxes, several orders in series 32975-33974.  Like this one:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/sout/sou33897ech.jpg

The main difference from the Penn Central model is the shape of the sidesills, the type of door (I think all the 5023s came with Youngstown doors), the vents on the top of the ends, and the end ladders since the 5023s were built in early 1966 and thus had running boards.  

Oh yeah, the 5023s were only 55-ton cars.  I'd love to see the memos on that reasoning.  How many 55-ton boxcars were built after that?  (Not many.)

The model could also be used as a stand-in for the later, taller (Plate C), 5219cf cars in the 38000-series.

When I get my hands on one of these models I'll report back.


Scott Chatfield

Re: [bbfcl] Southern 43000-series PS-1s

D. Scott Chatfield
 

I shot a fair number of these cars over the years, and in looking at my photos it appears the ones I shot were in brick service.  Does this conform to your info or experiences?


Scott Chatfield

Southern E-8 Paint Colors

SouRwyFan
 

Hi all,

I am working on another project and trying to gather info on E-8 paint colors.
Is the green paint on the E-8's as built different or the same as the green applied later on them in the "Southern Crescent" scheme of the 70's.

Thanks!

Re: Southern E-8 Paint Colors

D. Scott Chatfield
 

My opinion from looking at photos is that the transition era green was a bit brighter, and the '70s era green was not only a little darker but also a tad bluer.


Scott Chatfield

interest as reflected by data -where's the beef

milepost 131 <mp131.ghandrews@...>
 

Where’s the beef?

 

 

I look at data and at trends.
Based on the following data either folks interested in Southern Railway are visiting some other discussion groups that are well “concealed” or interest in this “Fallen Flag” is in steep decline.
I even suspect the numbers in the Yahoogroups (and the one migrate) include a “goodly” percentage of very inactive members or some whose mail is “bouncing.”

 

Recent message counts:

At Yahoogroups:

 

                                 Southern_Railway                                           Southernmodeler


members                           896                                                                 825

messages:

                 October 2018       3                                                                   2      

                 November            1                                                                   9

                 December            2                                                                   6

                 January 2019       2                                                                   3

 

 

Groups.io

southern-railway-system (migrated? Files seem to be)


members 745


messages:

                        October 2018                       3

                        November                           11

                        December                             5

                        January 2019                      31



ModelingtheSouthern (no migration)


members 17


messages

 

                                      October        10

                                      November      8

                                      December      0

                                      January 2019 2

 

I’m personally interested in modeling so it looks like it is really falling  in limbo. Yes, I’m interested in the history (particularly- steam focus) and I know that has declined since 1953 <g>

 

So before every one climbs my back and wants to castigate me for my posting --- I have done a bit in past years.
And even my files transferred with the group that migrated INCLUDING the documents regarding Southern Railway paint from headquarters circa 1946!

 

Based on data it does appear the Fallen Flag is falling. Interest  is losing ground.


So.... anyone? Is there  secret group,

Gordon Andrews
STILL modeling the Murphy Branch June, 1942.

Re: interest as reflected by data -where's the beef

mike turner
 

Gordon,

I look forward to every post on these lists. My research is taking a lot of time and nothing is really ready to post/comment whatever. Yet.

Mike Turner

MP-Z35

On 2/1/2019 2:24 PM, milepost 131 wrote:

Where’s the beef?

 

 

I look at data and at trends.
Based on the following data either folks interested in Southern Railway are visiting some other discussion groups that are well “concealed” or interest in this “Fallen Flag” is in steep decline.
I even suspect the numbers in the Yahoogroups (and the one migrate) include a “goodly” percentage of very inactive members or some whose mail is “bouncing.”

 

Recent message counts:

At Yahoogroups:

 

                                 Southern_Railway                                           Southernmodeler


members                           896                                                                 825

messages:

                 October 2018       3                                                                   2      

                 November            1                                                                   9

                 December            2                                                                   6

                 January 2019       2                                                                   3

 

 

Groups.io

southern-railway-system (migrated? Files seem to be)


members 745


messages:

                        October 2018                       3

                        November                           11

                        December                             5

                        January 2019                      31



ModelingtheSouthern (no migration)


members 17


messages

 

                                      October        10

                                      November      8

                                      December      0

                                      January 2019 2

 

I’m personally interested in modeling so it looks like it is really falling  in limbo. Yes, I’m interested in the history (particularly- steam focus) and I know that has declined since 1953 <g>

 

So before every one climbs my back and wants to castigate me for my posting --- I have done a bit in past years.
And even my files transferred with the group that migrated INCLUDING the documents regarding Southern Railway paint from headquarters circa 1946!

 

Based on data it does appear the Fallen Flag is falling. Interest  is losing ground.


So.... anyone? Is there  secret group,

Gordon Andrews
STILL modeling the Murphy Branch June, 1942.

Re: interest as reflected by data -where's the beef

SouRwyFan
 

Personally I think most people that really build from scratch or care about prototype specific models anymore, like the old days before RTR items were so available, are old school and not so internet savoy. They can do the internet but don't get satisfaction from it like they do from creating instead of the "look at me" mentality of today. They usual get eaten alive by the trolls because they are legitmently interested in sharing info and fellowship instead of criticizing/attacking and then hiding behind a username. Also with life obligations (Family, making a living, aging) find that posting and following the internet very time consuming and taking time away from life's important issues. Just my 2 cents...

1.5 cents from "the old school" from ---where's the beef thread

milepost 131 <mp131.ghandrews@...>
 

I tried to just reply to the person who sent two cents- really.

So now I'm relegated to "old school"- guess new school is just "sort of : looks like what I think Southern should have been" ??

As one who still builds from scratch and cares about prototype-- (try to find an accurate Shake and take model of Bryson City  NC depot <g>  If your are correct about "us" not being savvy (big giggle) who are the  800 plus from the Yahoogroups? We were doing THAT more than a decade ago.

I "personally' don't think much of  "look what I just bought" posts where  folks can give a terse "Attaboy" message. Even more grating is when the purchase isn't even "Southern" just something with an incorrect Southern paint job. (call me rivet counter) Call me a troll if you must but if it isn't Southern and you don't know it... why post it in a group related to Southern  unless you are just in need of "fellowship."  I get my fellowship at "church" <G>

Guilty as charged- I've been modeling  a lot of years. I did it while making a living and raising a family. Sad to say my sons were interested in C&O (not CSX) N&W, and ATSF so I was even spending time with those road interests as well as their sports AND as a BSA leader. I had just as much time as my boys do now with their work and families.. I found the time. 

As for aging... I resemble that remark.
As you can see by this post ... I can even find time to do things on the net... I find the time if it is important for me. Tomorrow I might not reply until after the game... if then.

But if I am wrong and you are right.... then perhaps this group and maybe even SRHA have seen their day and we should just go out to an internet store and buy whatever is on sale ---no need to be interested in Southern Railway- it's old school

The Rolling Stones once sang "Its only Rock and Roll (But I like it)" So I guess this is close enough: It's only SOUTHERN Railway  (But I LIKED it) 

Now.... where is that N&W J .... I need to slap Southern green and gold on it. Maybe a red roof... get me some of them Attaboys and likes. Get myself modern and new.

Yessireee. Born Again in the RTR anything goes new world. Wooooweee!


Gordon Andrews
still modeling The Murphy Branch - June, 1942

Re: 1.5 cents from "the old school" from ---where's the beef thread

George Eichelberger
 


A couple of questions for “where’s the beef”……

Is someone “internet savvy” because they know DNS, DHCP, NTP, TCP/IP, UDP and a raft of other technologies or do you just have to use Google, Snapchat and email to qualify?

You gave some examples of “old school”, what do you consider “new school”? You basically said “prototype modeling” is old school, is just having “SOUTHERN” on a RTR model is good enough? Is attending a RPM meet, NMRA, NRHS or SRHA convention in that category? How about visiting one of, at least four, railroad museums with actual Southern Railway equipment in operation or on display? Would “new school” have ever built any of the accurate resin SR models or purchased a RTR “Big John” or waffle side box car?

Without any of that, why claim to be a Southern modeler?

I guess the question is….does “new school” do anything that does not use a keyboard or monitor?

Ike



On Feb 2, 2019, at 4:05 PM, milepost 131 <mp131.ghandrews@...> wrote:

I tried to just reply to the person who sent two cents- really.

So now I'm relegated to "old school"- guess new school is just "sort of : looks like what I think Southern should have been" ??

As one who still builds from scratch and cares about prototype-- (try to find an accurate Shake and take model of Bryson City  NC depot <g>  If your are correct about "us" not being savvy (big giggle) who are the  800 plus from the Yahoogroups? We were doing THAT more than a decade ago.

I "personally' don't think much of  "look what I just bought" posts where  folks can give a terse "Attaboy" message. Even more grating is when the purchase isn't even "Southern" just something with an incorrect Southern paint job. (call me rivet counter) Call me a troll if you must but if it isn't Southern and you don't know it... why post it in a group related to Southern  unless you are just in need of "fellowship."  I get my fellowship at "church" <G>

Guilty as charged- I've been modeling  a lot of years. I did it while making a living and raising a family. Sad to say my sons were interested in C&O (not CSX) N&W, and ATSF so I was even spending time with those road interests as well as their sports AND as a BSA leader. I had just as much time as my boys do now with their work and families.. I found the time. 

As for aging... I resemble that remark.
As you can see by this post ... I can even find time to do things on the net... I find the time if it is important for me. Tomorrow I might not reply until after the game... if then.

But if I am wrong and you are right.... then perhaps this group and maybe even SRHA have seen their day and we should just go out to an internet store and buy whatever is on sale ---no need to be interested in Southern Railway- it's old school

The Rolling Stones once sang "Its only Rock and Roll (But I like it)" So I guess this is close enough: It's only SOUTHERN Railway  (But I LIKED it) 

Now.... where is that N&W J .... I need to slap Southern green and gold on it. Maybe a red roof... get me some of them Attaboys and likes. Get myself modern and new.

Yessireee. Born Again in the RTR anything goes new world. Wooooweee!


Gordon Andrews
still modeling The Murphy Branch - June, 1942

Re: 1.5 cents from "the old school" from ---where's the beef thread

SouRwyFan
 
Edited

Gordon,

I'm not sure, but I feel based on your response that my post made you incensed.
I'm sorry if you took it personally-it wasn't meant that way.
You originally ask where all the interest of years ago on here has gone and if there is some secret fallen flag group.
One word, Facebook, it seems to have everything.
Do I like it, NO, but I use it because it has much traffic and its what most folks seem to find as the evil necessity. 

By what I stated I wasn't talking down the "old school" way, we (Yes I can admit I'm getting old) are the connection to that history for those that never saw SR outside a museum or in pictures.
We have seen operations and events that weren't documented readily or sometimes at all and can model from actual experience.
And there are fewer and fewer that have lived through this and every year we lose more, just one example Jerry Laboda last year.

The SR interest is still there but sharing has changed, everybody seems to be to busy.
The house phone & computers its mostly a thing of the past, now most communication is done by smart phones so that evil social media, Facebook, seems to prevail as the easiest media to communicate.
However It has lots of trolls, AND NOT YOU, that are smart asses just because they know you can't climb through facebook and kick their asses. (I personally watched Robert Harpe share on a FB group last year and get harassed, one of the masters of SR modeling!) 
Now most organizational conventions or meets are regional at most, they are still active just not on websites or in print much as that takes time and someone has to update them.
Local hobby shops/shows have given way mostly to internet stores.

What I call the "new school" SR modelers have never experienced SR when it was just a for profit company hauling freight/commerce (The pretty and the ugly) and not as a special operating or static display, so they are bound to lose some specifics and details as its not always feasible for restorations to be done back to 100 percent original.

In addition there always has been and always will be some that just want to run trains and don't care if its prototypical or not.

Life is short and nothing is forever so enjoy scratch building or running trains, pleasing yourself the only one (Besides the wife) that really matters. 

RS

Re: 1.5 cents from "the old school" from ---where's the beef thread

D. Scott Chatfield
 

I doubt that any of us is truly "old school", although a former co-worker recently described me as such to his wife because I showed up a few minutes early for a meeting....

All of us, regardless of our modeling or historical interest in God's Own Railroad, uses modern technology.  

I am old school enough to remember this washing machine-sized thingie on our destroyer that BuPers used to send personnel paperwork to us.  They called it a "facsimile machine".  Took a while to print a page.  Then I went to the Southern and the facsimile machine (still not called a "fax machine" yet) was the size of a dorm fridge.  Still took a while to print a page and we tried to only use it when we needed a copy of a foreign road waybill.  By 1986 we couldn't live without our fax machine, and it wasn't much bigger than a couple Atlanta phone books.  Now when was the last time you used a fax machine?

The same is true in our avocation.  Things that were cutting edge 30 years ago are not only commonplace now but what you can buy off the shelf is often better than the best modelers could build then.  And now you can populate a layout with _correct_ Southern Railway equipment, at least for some eras, off the shelf.  So now the modelers' focus can pivot from just building Southern equipment to building a layout that represents a part of the Southern and then using that equipment and layout in a way the real Southern would have.  That is not info you can buy at the hobby shop, especially at an internet-only shop.

We must understand that the high-skill builders were always the small minority in this hobby.  Less than 5%.  RTR has always been the norm, just less so in HO.  After all, what is Lionel and almost all N-scale but RTR.  While Athearn sold lots of blue-box engines in the last century, those of us old enough to remember the '70s and '80s (if the drugs, hideous clothes, and disco didn't turn your memory to mush) should recall how the HO hobby went gaga for Atlas' RTR diesels.

The point of my rambling on is that yes, you can be a Southern modeler without being a stick-builder of everything.  Indeed, I ask you, what is a better representation of the railroad itself, a few hard fought battles with resin kits, satisfying as they are, or a layout stocked with reasonably accurate Southern RTR stuff being operated the way the Southern did?

The archives are useful for both approaches and everything in between.  It's getting word out to a world filling up with spoon-fed snowflakes that a) the info exists, and b) it doesn't sort itself.

Scott Chatfield

Re: 1.5 cents from "the old school" from ---where's the beef thread

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Actually my brother works for a company selling fax services (server based but distinct because the source and receiving machine must connect in real-time). They are required in legal and health arenas.

And I started learning railroad modeling on Usenet before email was favored.  I try Pinterest, Tumblr, Facebook...whatever helps me learn.

I model the Southern because of my grandfather. I have kits of any Southern items prior to 1955 I can find and build my own when they are not available. I have enough projects to last my life unless gene therapy extends it (ok by me).  I can learn from NYC or N&W or SP modelers as easily as those interested in the Southern, so I go where my questions are answered well. The hobby is a part of my life’s leisure activities so I am not 100% available to talk or type or ask. So I “go dark” when busy.

The beef is sliced thin and served rare.

Dave Bott

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Feb 2, 2019, at 7:35 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

Now when was the last time you used a fax machine?

For your consideration

milepost 131 <mp131.ghandrews@...>
 

As I expected my question about  the propensity to post messages didn’t result in a lot of new “modeling the Southern” posts.

 

So as the consummate glutton for punishment:

 

SOUTHERN RAILWAY PAINT--

 

In the other Southern Railway group:

https://groups.io/g/southern-railway-system

 

in the Files section there is a file “Official Colors 1946!”

This file has two images (JPG) of a document I received from Southern Railway (Washington DC) in the mid-1960’s. It is a document they put together in 1946 for Model Railroader magazine. On request for information this is a document they sent me.

 

Some modelers in this group might be interested.

Some modelers might not know about the other group that migrated from Yahoo and their files.

so my next model related thought:

 

 

SOUTHERN RAILWAY- MURPHY BRANCH

 

My layout is an attempt to model parts of the Murphy Branch, June 1942.

 

I'm interested many facets, structures, local industries, rolling stock, traffic etc. etc. etc. I've done multiple  projects and have many in progress.   Often I combine photos and documentation to first create full scale drawings, then create scale drawings, then create models.

For instance, I created 3D files to create an accurate Hutchins end and roof- SU box car- N scale then created RTV molds and resin casting. 

 

Currently one of my projects is the depot in Bryson City.

 

I have a few photos.. the earliest circa 1957. Typically photos are of the front of the depot. I have a circa 1937 map that seems to confirm the freight portion of the depot was shortened after 1937. I have found no circa 1940’s photos nor photos of the rear in same era.

 

Unfortunately, my layout for the depot will “reveal” the back so I’d like to get it right. I have a suspicion (no facts) that through the years the back was reconfigured and modeling the current “view” would be wrong for 1942.

SO I'm looking for information to get the depot CORRECT. <g> My experience is that one I finish a project - the next week new information appears.

 

Another project I’m working on is drawings for 7500 gallon tender. I’m going attempt a model of #1288 (sad to say it looks like she was never “green and gold” but I’m curious about the 7500 gallon tenders. Exactly why they even were-- the water facilities when they were modified were still fairly prevalent…. In the case of 1288 I even wonder whether this one was because of the grades.

 

Now all of that being said.

 

Yes, I could post a few photos but will ask beforehand how the moderators want to do that.

 

I could have posted them in-line with this post BUT then they go into a folder format that is general and not subject specific. Or they could go into a folder of my own “labeling” or they could go into folders as specified and set for better group access. (Yeah, many moderators at groups.io haven’t tackled this issue. <G>

 

In addition, if you look at the way “migrated” groups are changing photos to help members find them is also a problem…

 

So moderators… consider that too. I even have the original document mentioned above, a text file of the data, and images that I could load to this group <G>. I also have a .WAV file from the 1960’s of Walter Dove’s wonderful whistle of 1401 which was on 4501 so the Smithsonian could get a recording… but may be Southern modeling is the wrong interest group.

Gordon Andrews

SOU 116100-116195 series bulkhead flats

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Does anyone have an equipment diagram handy for this series of "wallboard flats"?
I have some questions about them, such as the design of the deck.  It appears to be a "composite" deck, a mix of steel channels and wood planks.

This is series of bulkhead flats that looks similar to the old MDC model, which is based on cars built by Thrall for BN/C&S and the Milwaukee.  Those have a 56' inside length.  This Southern car has an inside length of 50'0" or 50'6" depending on which source you look at.

I'm also curious about the trucks.  The Jan 1980 Equipment Register states they have 5'8" wheelbase trucks (a nominal "70-ton" truck) even though they are 93-ton cars.  They should have 36" wheels.  The photos I have of these cars appear to show standard 100-ton trucks.

I'm trying to decide if cutting one stake pocket worth of deck, about 4'5" of length, and making a new deck is worth the bother.  Also need to make that very long cushioned draft gear.


Scott Chatfield

Bulkhead flatcar drawing in April RMC

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Since we were talking about bulkhead flats, by coincidence the April 2019 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman has an article with drawings about Thrall bulkheads built for B&O, D&H, L&N, N&W, the Southern, and CofG in the mid '60s.  The drawings are specifically about the B&O cars which had cushioned draft gear but they are still useful for someone wanting to build a Southern/CofG car.

Scott Chatfield

Re: Bulkhead flatcar drawing in April RMC

George Eichelberger
 


As the bulkhead flat drawings were received after the Southern stopped tracing all car builder’s originals, most were never microfilmed and are not available on aperture cards but….the drawings, usually on vellum or blue prints are in the SRHA archives. I will be heading up to Chatt this Friday and Saturday to help get things organized for the April work session and the Archives grand opening during the SRHA/NMRA convention. If we can get some help, we can start to organize and scan the car builders’ drawings this weekend.

B&O/SAL/ACL bulkhead flat drawings may also be in the aperture cards the ACL/SALHS got from CSX that are also at Chattanooga. (Only the L&N decks have been moved to the L&NHS, all of the other CSX predecessor drawings, if they were microfilmed, are also in the SRHA archives.

Anyone that may want to work this weekend, please send me an email in case plans change for some reason.

I’ve attached a partial jpg of SF-1978, the General Arrangement drawing for 100-T bulkhead flats 114500-114549. Note that although the Gen Arrt drawing was traced (from 61-15393) and has a SR drawing number, the drawings referenced on it are car builder drawings.

Ike


On Mar 27, 2019, at 11:38 AM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

Since we were talking about bulkhead flats, by coincidence the April 2019 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman has an article with drawings about Thrall bulkheads built for B&O, D&H, L&N, N&W, the Southern, and CofG in the mid '60s.  The drawings are specifically about the B&O cars which had cushioned draft gear but they are still useful for someone wanting to build a Southern/CofG car.

Scott Chatfield

operations on Berry Branch and Jasper Al.

pastorkeeton
 

looking for info on the branch and the line thru jasper.
I am building that locale set in earl 80's
thanks in advance