Date   
Re: PS-2s

George Eichelberger
 

Scott:

That is a superb idea! We should pass it along to Kadee AFTER we confirm hatch spacing, I’m not certain all of the CG cars were the same?

Here’s a photo of mine taken in Asheville 2-25 of Sou 95454 (CG file 610, blt 1957). We might be able to find its CofG road number in the archives although virtually all of the maintenance records from Coster Shop were destroyed. 

(We had permission from David Goode to clean out Coster, as we did Hayne, but the Shop Manager apparently had made an arrangement with someone in Knoxville to have the records so he would not let us into the Master Mechanic’s building. I should have called Mr. Goode but let it go as it was a Saturday. So….everything at Coster we did not get was lost.)

Ike



On Oct 12, 2019, at 11:06 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

Ike wrote:

> Am I correct PS-2s are the covered hopper? Kadee has not done them in Southern because their model has the roof hatches in the wrong places.


Yes, PS-2 is Pullman-ease for covered hopper.

Kadee could do a CofG repaint, as illustrated by SOU 95455 on page 98 of Jim Kincaid's Southern color guide by Morning Sun.


Scott Chatfield

PS-2s

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Ike wrote:

> Am I correct PS-2s are the covered hopper? Kadee has not done them in Southern because their model has the roof hatches in the wrong places.


Yes, PS-2 is Pullman-ease for covered hopper.

Kadee could do a CofG repaint, as illustrated by SOU 95455 on page 98 of Jim Kincaid's Southern color guide by Morning Sun.


Scott Chatfield

Re: Kadee double door PS-1s

George Eichelberger
 

Scott is correct about the running boards on the double door box cars. The models (correctly) have Blaw-Knox, or similar running boards (with square MoL holes), the Southern Standard was to use Morton. It’s mot clear why the non-standard running board were accepted but the series of cars was a small order. I think I am correct that Kadee now has 40’ versions of the Morton running boards.

The aluminum roof on the models is probably to represent unpainted galvanized metal. Unfortunately…it looks like an aluminum painted roof which is incorrect.

I don’t expect there was a formal “program” to replace the aluminum doors as that would have been a maintenance expense. The doors did not last (survive) long as they could not stand up to be whacked by fork lift trucks.

Note my earlier post about the SR 40’ PS-1 that used all P-S parts box cars. After a long string of correspondence between Kadee, Ed Hawkins and I, I think everyone agrees the Kadee model is a one of a kind car…the road number on the model is probably the ONLY car delivered with black ends and without a Morton running board.

Am I correct PS-2s are the covered hopper? Kadee has not done them in Southern because their model has the roof hatches in the wrong places. I sent them the drawings for the SR version but do not expect they will produce a Southern version.

Ike

PS Archives work session is next weekend Thurs PM thru Sat. Things are getting organized are we are able to “dig down” into specific details.

PPS The archives, some modeling (and eye surgery) have kept me from posting much to “Modeling the Southern”. I have some passenger car projects I’ll get posted after the work session. Please…if anyone is working a SR model….take some photos and let everyone know what you are working on. The archives volunteers may be able to help with drawings or detais.



On Oct 12, 2019, at 2:40 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

I know Ike has told me the reason why Kadee has done six or seven numbers of the 262865-262899 series double-door PS-1s with the aluminum doors, and no others, but I've forgotten the details.  Something about the running board?  

How long did those aluminum doors last?  Was there a program to replace them?  Something to look for in the archives.

They finally did an as-delivered 40-footer.

I don't recall Kadee doing any Southern PS-2s for that matter.

I've lobbied them to consider doing the USRE rebuild bodies in both 40 and 50 foot.  Would get them a bunch of colorful paint jobs.


Scott Chatfield

Kadee double door PS-1s

D. Scott Chatfield
 

I know Ike has told me the reason why Kadee has done six or seven numbers of the 262865-262899 series double-door PS-1s with the aluminum doors, and no others, but I've forgotten the details.  Something about the running board?  

How long did those aluminum doors last?  Was there a program to replace them?  Something to look for in the archives.

They finally did an as-delivered 40-footer.

I don't recall Kadee doing any Southern PS-2s for that matter.

I've lobbied them to consider doing the USRE rebuild bodies in both 40 and 50 foot.  Would get them a bunch of colorful paint jobs.


Scott Chatfield

Re: Green Light slogan debut

George Eichelberger
 

Scott:

You are certainly welcome…..

As a reminder, the next SRHA archives work session will be Fri and Sat the 18th and 19th of Oct. Several of us will be there starting late Thursday morning if anyone wants to come then.

I have not spoken to Tim Andrews at TVRM lately so I do not know if CSX has moved Southern dining car 3307 (Budd 1949) from Nashville to Chattanooga or what the plans are to move NS office car #8 (ex SR #5) from Madison , IL. I expect TVRM will move quickly to put 3307 in service. Everyone is welcome to help plan, work on (and help pay for!) the restoration of Southern #5.

We will continue to look for drawings, memos and work orders for Southern #5 at the work session.

Join us!

Ike


On Oct 10, 2019, at 3:24 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

Thanks Ike!


Scott Chatfield
<9-19-1968 Green Light memo .jpeg>

Re: Green Light slogan debut

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Thanks Ike!


Scott Chatfield

Re: Green Light slogan debut

George Eichelberger
 

Sorry for the short delay responding….. I’d rather take the time to “look it up” than guess.

Ike



On Oct 10, 2019, at 2:45 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

Anybody recall exactly when GIVES A GREEN LIGHT TO INNOVATIONS first showed up on boxcars?


Scott Chatfield

Green Light slogan debut

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Anybody recall exactly when GIVES A GREEN LIGHT TO INNOVATIONS first showed up on boxcars?


Scott Chatfield

Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM

George Eichelberger
 

Re: Jim’s model of the Southern 40’ lo side gons….

May I add that I believe, and have told many people, that it is one of the best, most accurate HO models ever made!

It is just one of the reasons SRHA acquired all of the Southern prototypes from WrightTrak. The Association will make the resin castings of as many of the WrightTrak models available to Southern modelers as possible. We never expect to recover SRHA's purchase cost but felt simply preserving the masters and molds was something the group needed to do.

Ike


On Aug 5, 2019, at 4:47 PM, Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote:

I’m always thrilled when Southern history is saved, especially for future service.  The 2 gons have particular interest to me because I’ve produced the 1945 PS rebuild in HO, S and O (shipping now).  I know TVRM is very good when it comes to accurately restoring equipment.  The gons, possibly from Eastern Shore RR, have a very diverse history.  ESHR had, I think, 5 of these low sides in service as ferry idlers.  Attached are pix of 2.  They appear identical (PS end with darts is a clue) 11-rib style from the 1945 rebuild program.  It’s doubtful a car number is still visible on the centersill but that would be all that’s needed to determine a car’s history.  Glad they are saved … likely the only ones to be so.
 
Jim King
 

-- 
Jim King
www.smokymountainmodelworks.com<Eastern Shore 583 Little Creek VA 8-3-2002 R. Underwood Kodachrome lo rez.jpg><Eastern Shore 581 Little Creek VA 8-3-2002 R. Underwood Kodachrome lo rez.jpg>

Presidents; File Finding aids and Southern Piggyback

George Eichelberger
 
Edited

In case anyone is not subscribed to the SouthernRailway.groups.io list, here is a post from yesterday that includes a link to the draft versions of all of the SR Presidents' files finding aids. There are files on many of the Southern's equipment leases and trusts over the years that are useful for the various rolling stock books.

And, yesterday I scanned the General Arrangement drawings for several P-S piggyback flat cars. That may be too "hardware" related for a TIES article but I'll publish them here if there is any interest. IMHO, Southern piggyback and intermodal in general is pretty much untouched in photos or articles.

Ike

-------
They are not perfect but the enclosed Google Drive link will allow everyone to download a copy of the current draft of the Southern Railway Presidents' Files Finding Aids.

We need to begin an archives work session project to "QC" each entry against the contents of the files and make whatever corrections or additions we need. You'll note the intro to each year mentions the entry is "representative" of its contents. The folder includes MS Word or Excel files for each year since the formation of the Southern. (The Google Drive viewer appears to want to alter the Excel files but let's simply ignore that for now. It may be best to download them...)

The link (open in your browser) is:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1tqb3kBvEvyRo5dRvJcPmL7KfW0M1nA-4?usp=sharing

I find myself constantly wanting to "click" on an entry so I can see the entire file (some have 200 pages). Maybe someday, with enough volunteer or paid help, that will be possible but for now folks will need to go the the archives to see their contents. Please understand, we do not have enough volunteers to respond to all requests for copies or scans. Priority will go to anyone working on articles for TIES, another historical group's publication or one of the commercial magazines. If anyone has ideas of how we might obtain a grant, we could pay students from the Univ of TN-Chattanooga to help.

Either plan on attending one of our third-weekend work sessions or send an email to archives@... if you plan to be at TVRM on other days so you can access the files and do your own research. (Looking though files and seeing 4501 under steam just across the street is worth the trip.)

Ike

Groups and Paint

milepost 131 <mp131.ghandrews@...>
 

This IS being cross-posted to the two yahoogroups and the groups.io

 

 

The things I don’t know:

 

1. What’s up with photo/files/messages

2 Depot Paint

 

Why we have members asking about files and photos…

 

 

 

Now to the various and sundry internet discussion groups- shades of the old days when SRHS and SRHA co-existed.

 

At Yahoogroup.

 

Southern_Railway and Southern Railway Modeler exist.

 

Southern_Railway (Yahoo) indicates 896 member (active -unknown)

It has a file and photo section that members CAN access.

 

Southern Railway Modelers (Yahoo- Southernmodeler) 828 members. It has Files and Photos section.

 

As far as I know neither Yahoogroup has direct ties to SRHA…

 

And then there are the groups at groups.io:

 

SouthernRailway

A “main group” with 132 members

Only photos are those which have been “pulled from email attachments and no files.

Under this is a sub-group

ModelingTheSouthern with 21 members

Again ONLY photos are those sent as attachments (SIX as of this writing)

 

If you are confused at this point- welcome to the club.

 

The groups.io seem to be associated with SRHA (but this might not be true)

 

So it would appear that we have “diversity” of discussion groups and anyone interested in Southern Railway needs to have their feet planted “firmly” in two worlds. As I said it reminds me of ancient history when SRHS and SRHA existed.

 

I’m not sure who the owners/moderators are of any of the groups not that it matters but it is a shame we can’t all get on the same page regardless…

 

 

 

So.. it looks like you’ll have to do what I’ve been doing… have membership in both Yahoogroups and groups.io. (I’m not even sure whether these two providers will welcome discussion groups long term.)

 

FYI- I migrated a group from Yahoo to groups.io a while back because it was better supported at groups.io. To each his own.

 

But the next time you see a member say… but I can’t post a file or a photo…. you’ll know why.

 

 

NOW TO MY SOUTHERN RAILWAY MESSAGE!

 

 

2 DEPOT PAINT

 

The color of depots on the Southern Murphy Branch circa 1942.

Based on a photo of Whittier (circa 1909) Seems to be the yellow/green scheme

Bushnell Clodfelter photo *(circa 1916) and TVA Archives (yellow/green)

Balsam – a few early photos (yellow/green)

 

It would seem that depots were the pre-1925 scheme unless they needed painting. (including white trim??)

I have not found any photos which appear to be the green with yellow trim.

Yes there are photo of the post 1945 scheme of gray with white trim.

 

BTW, the yellow used at Montpelier station (you can find photos on line are based on mass-spec analysis of paint layers done during a very good restoration effort.

 

Now some depots that have been restored do show the yellow. Some show the yellow/green. Some have red doors some have yellow white.

 

If anyone has definitive info on any depot paint with time etc. A few of us might be interested.

when I get my depot of Bryson City (circa 1942) guess where I'll post the photos <G>


Gordon Andrews

 

Re: SRHA has purchased all of the WrightTrak Southern freight cars

Thomas Sullivan
 

Ike, I would be interested in the gondola and flatcar. My interest are an earlier era ie 1900-1920.
Tom 
Anderson, SC


On Jul 1, 2019, at 2:50 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

With so much going on getting ready for the archives dedication, the SRHA BOD has not been able to finalize planning for the WrightTrak models, but we are getting close.

I expect the first model we will put back into production will be the Southern bay window cab. We will have a drawing pack on the Grab web page along with the model body and some etched parts. Our logic is that modelers interested in assembling accurate resin models (and to keep prices down)  will have trucks, couplers and other detail parts so SRHA does not need to provide them. We will provide a list of correct parts with the body shells. When I say "in production", To avoid tying up cash for inventory waiting to be sold, we will produce a dozen or two dozen at a time for people that pre-order with a small quantity for first-come first served orders.

I would like to see the 53' PS gon, the 40' low side gon and the 40' flat car available. If there is enough interest (let us know!), we will produce coil steel covers for the 53' gon. In fact, please send any comments on which models we should produce, etc.

The 53' gon has always been a favorite of mine because of all of the variations the Southern used it for. I've attached two photos of kitbashes I have been working on. I don't think it would be possible to do either model without drawings in the SRHA archives. One version was modified and used to carry carbon electrodes to produce aluminum. It has fixed and movable bulkheads to keep the heavy electrodes fro shifting and breaking. The second photo has to be one of the most complex models I've ever attempted. They were modified (from the same 53' gons) to carry track panels for the reconstruction of Inman Yard in Atlanta. I have never spoken to anyone that worked with them that had anything good to say. Track panels (on the bottom of the stack) were moved through other "drone" cars until they reached a "master" car that included a boom to lower panels out the far end.

Ike
<IMG_3091.jpg>
<IMG_3094.jpg>

Re: SRHA has purchased all of the WrightTrak Southern freight cars

George Eichelberger
 

With so much going on getting ready for the archives dedication, the SRHA BOD has not been able to finalize planning for the WrightTrak models, but we are getting close.

I expect the first model we will put back into production will be the Southern bay window cab. We will have a drawing pack on the Grab web page along with the model body and some etched parts. Our logic is that modelers interested in assembling accurate resin models (and to keep prices down)  will have trucks, couplers and other detail parts so SRHA does not need to provide them. We will provide a list of correct parts with the body shells. When I say "in production", To avoid tying up cash for inventory waiting to be sold, we will produce a dozen or two dozen at a time for people that pre-order with a small quantity for first-come first served orders.

I would like to see the 53' PS gon, the 40' low side gon and the 40' flat car available. If there is enough interest (let us know!), we will produce coil steel covers for the 53' gon. In fact, please send any comments on which models we should produce, etc.

The 53' gon has always been a favorite of mine because of all of the variations the Southern used it for. I've attached two photos of kitbashes I have been working on. I don't think it would be possible to do either model without drawings in the SRHA archives. One version was modified and used to carry carbon electrodes to produce aluminum. It has fixed and movable bulkheads to keep the heavy electrodes fro shifting and breaking. The second photo has to be one of the most complex models I've ever attempted. They were modified (from the same 53' gons) to carry track panels for the reconstruction of Inman Yard in Atlanta. I have never spoken to anyone that worked with them that had anything good to say. Track panels (on the bottom of the stack) were moved through other "drone" cars until they reached a "master" car that included a boom to lower panels out the far end.

Ike

Re: Allen Cain

charliecatsrr
 

Allen,
I need to send you an e-mail with a description of and prices for the Southern Railway books.  I'm not ready to send them to everyone.
J. C. Paschal

On Wednesday, May 29, 2019, 10:37:15 AM EDT, charliecatsrr via Groups.Io <charliecatsrr@...> wrote:


Allen I have misplaced your latest e-mail address.  I wold appreciate your reply with your current e-mail address.

J. C.  Paschal

Allen Cain

charliecatsrr
 

Allen I have misplaced your latest e-mail address.  I wold appreciate your reply with your current e-mail address.

J. C.  Paschal

Southern Railway books for sale

charliecatsrr
 

I need to sell some of my Southern Railway & other south eastern railway books.

These include, but not limited to Southern Steam Locomotives & Boats by Richard E. Prince, Southern Steam Power by Harold E. Ranks & Shelby F. Lowe.  This book is autographed by Shelby Lowe.  I also have at least a dozen more books.  Is anyone interested?

J. C. Paschal


Re: SRHA has purchased all of the WrightTrak Southern freight cars

George Eichelberger
 

As far as I understand, ALL of the Southern cars Gary sold as WrightTrak are included; the Silversides, waffle box car, cupola cab, etc. There may be little or no demand for some items while others could be quite popular. Although I discussed the items with Gary, Rick Bell did not pick up any documentation or design information. Gary told us some of that would follow. As all of the plans used to produce the cars came from SRHA, I do not see that as a major concern.

We have an excellent working relationship with Hubert Mask at Mask Island decals and will work with him to make sure accurate decals are available.

Some of the molds are less than perfect, others may be too worn to be used. The masters appear (at first look) to be generally in good shape so new molds can be made if needed. The state of the art for making masters or patterns is moving ahead quickly. The two “production” people we are working with have the necessary CAD, prototyping and casting experience. The dollar amount we offered was the result of a close inspection (by someone with direct experience in the technology) of the masters and molds. Frankly, I do not expect SRHA will ever recover 100% of what we paid. The amount was such that continuing to make the models’ available (they are some of the most accurate ever produced) was something SRHA should, and could do.

Individuals can participate any way they wish. Donations to SRHA, the archives or toward the production of these models would be appreciated.  

In any case, we do not see this becoming a high volume production or sales project.

The next steps will be up to people wanting to have prototype models of Southern Railway rolling stock. Production will be very limited with few castings produced to keep in inventory.

We will discuss all of this at next week’s SRHA convention. For anyone interested, they need to register, get to Chattanooga and join in the conversation.

Ike

PS If anyone is seriously interested in becoming the SRHA “Modeling” person to be involved in this, the SouthernRailway io group and modeling information in the archives, contact us off list at archives@....


On May 24, 2019, at 12:45 PM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

Ike, 

What exactly did SRHA purchase?  There could be scale plans (what works in HO scale does not always work in N or O scale), instruction sheets, decal art, masters, molds, or just the parts and decals already produced. What about Smoky Mountain Model Works designs like the low side gondola and the wood caboose? I understand Jim King transferred the rights to some of those to Wright Track. Did SRHA acquire those rights or did they revert to Jim, or am I misinformed?

I just want to know the meaning of “Southern cars” in your statement. 

I’m pleased as punch at this development. So much better than seeing those resources get lost or dispersed!

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On May 24, 2019, at 10:11 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The concept at this point is to NOT offer complete kits but only the polyurethane castings to allow us to keep these accurate models in production and to offer the parts at reduced prices. We will be able, using data from the SRHA archives, to offer photos, drawings and histories of all the models here on ModelingTheSouthern. In addition to building the models "as is" we will discuss, and include data, for as many variations as possible. For example, covered coiled steel versions of the 53' gondola and welded rail and MoW versions of the 40' flat cars. Additional parts, and potentially other models may be produced as time permits.

We will be discussing plans to make the WrightTrak castings available at the upcoming SRHA convention at TVRM in Chattanooga on the 31st and 1st. Everyone is welcome to participate and help us come up with a plan. There are clinics scheduled Friday evening  at the TVRM headquarters building, the SRHA archives "grand opening" will be at 10:00 AM on Saturday June 1st with a trip to the TVRM shop at E. Chattanooga for an extended tour also on Saturday.) SRHA will be presenting a clinic at the NMRA hotel downtown at 9:00AM Friday morning entitled "30-Tons of archives" that will describe the new facility and how prototype data can be used.

Convention information and registration is on the SRHA web site: www.srha.net. 

Ike

PS I've attached a photo of a model of Southern 40' roof hatch box car 32458. It is one of the items SRHA will produce if there is sufficient interest.
<Southern 32458.jpg>

Re: SRHA has purchased all of the WrightTrak Southern freight cars

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Ike, 

What exactly did SRHA purchase?  There could be scale plans (what works in HO scale does not always work in N or O scale), instruction sheets, decal art, masters, molds, or just the parts and decals already produced. What about Smoky Mountain Model Works designs like the low side gondola and the wood caboose? I understand Jim King transferred the rights to some of those to Wright Track. Did SRHA acquire those rights or did they revert to Jim, or am I misinformed?

I just want to know the meaning of “Southern cars” in your statement. 

I’m pleased as punch at this development. So much better than seeing those resources get lost or dispersed!

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On May 24, 2019, at 10:11 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The concept at this point is to NOT offer complete kits but only the polyurethane castings to allow us to keep these accurate models in production and to offer the parts at reduced prices. We will be able, using data from the SRHA archives, to offer photos, drawings and histories of all the models here on ModelingTheSouthern. In addition to building the models "as is" we will discuss, and include data, for as many variations as possible. For example, covered coiled steel versions of the 53' gondola and welded rail and MoW versions of the 40' flat cars. Additional parts, and potentially other models may be produced as time permits.

We will be discussing plans to make the WrightTrak castings available at the upcoming SRHA convention at TVRM in Chattanooga on the 31st and 1st. Everyone is welcome to participate and help us come up with a plan. There are clinics scheduled Friday evening  at the TVRM headquarters building, the SRHA archives "grand opening" will be at 10:00 AM on Saturday June 1st with a trip to the TVRM shop at E. Chattanooga for an extended tour also on Saturday.) SRHA will be presenting a clinic at the NMRA hotel downtown at 9:00AM Friday morning entitled "30-Tons of archives" that will describe the new facility and how prototype data can be used.

Convention information and registration is on the SRHA web site: www.srha.net. 

Ike

PS I've attached a photo of a model of Southern 40' roof hatch box car 32458. It is one of the items SRHA will produce if there is sufficient interest.
<Southern 32458.jpg>

SRHA has purchased all of the WrightTrak Southern freight cars

George Eichelberger
 

The concept at this point is to NOT offer complete kits but only the polyurethane castings to allow us to keep these accurate models in production and to offer the parts at reduced prices. We will be able, using data from the SRHA archives, to offer photos, drawings and histories of all the models here on ModelingTheSouthern. In addition to building the models "as is" we will discuss, and include data, for as many variations as possible. For example, covered coiled steel versions of the 53' gondola and welded rail and MoW versions of the 40' flat cars. Additional parts, and potentially other models may be produced as time permits.

We will be discussing plans to make the WrightTrak castings available at the upcoming SRHA convention at TVRM in Chattanooga on the 31st and 1st. Everyone is welcome to participate and help us come up with a plan. There are clinics scheduled Friday evening  at the TVRM headquarters building, the SRHA archives "grand opening" will be at 10:00 AM on Saturday June 1st with a trip to the TVRM shop at E. Chattanooga for an extended tour also on Saturday.) SRHA will be presenting a clinic at the NMRA hotel downtown at 9:00AM Friday morning entitled "30-Tons of archives" that will describe the new facility and how prototype data can be used.

Convention information and registration is on the SRHA web site: www.srha.net. 

Ike

PS I've attached a photo of a model of Southern 40' roof hatch box car 32458. It is one of the items SRHA will produce if there is sufficient interest.

Re: operations on Berry Branch and Jasper Al.

George Eichelberger
 

Scott is certainly correct about data in the SRHA archives. Here (attached) is one page from Northern Alabama Rwy Val (valuation) section 2 that covers the line through Jasper as it was documented for the ICC valuation study. These records show all of the ICC accounts for all val sections in a state. Account 16 includes depots. All of the ICC accounts are described in the scan of the ICC booklet I sent to the group some time ago.

While their data starts out being “old”, 1916-1926, it appears the Southern kept them updated well into the 1950s (notes in yellow on this example).

There is an archives work session scheduled next weekend. In addition to plain old “work” we need to get done, there will be time for people to look up, and help organize, whatever interests them. The archives will also be open during the SRHA convention the end of the month and the archives grand opening on June 1st.

Ike



On May 8, 2019, at 12:13 AM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

Welcome to the group.  I don't personally have any knowledge of that line, but we might have some info in the SRHA Archives in Chattanooga.


Scott Chatfield


"pastorkeeton via Groups.Io" <pastorkeeton@...> wrote:
looking for info on the branch and the line thru jasper.
I am building that locale set in earl 80's
thanks in advance
_