Date   
Just Released - 3rd Rail/Sunset Models O-Scale Southern F3's

David Friedlander
 

Hey all,

Here is my review on the latest 3rd Rail/Sunset Models O-Scale F3 release that included Southern.  Really good RTR units, that just need a little bit of tweaking to perfect, but what doesn't need just a little extra oomph these days out of the box.

https://davejfr0.blogspot.com/2020/06/2r-o-scale-southern-f3a-by-sunset.html

That caboose kit I'm working on will eventually run behind these guys or maybe they'll go in for some light passenger service.

David Friedlander
NYC or Columbia, MD

Re: HO scale long hood bell and mount

Ryan Harris
 

I went with the Plano part since I had a few Kato bells to install on hand. Here I've installed the bell bracket on a GP49 I built from an Athearn blue box GP50 many years ago. It replaces the Overland Models part installed previously:

https://pbase.com/mecrharris/image/170833170

Here is that model compared to a similar older model (Athearn blue box GP38-2) with the Overland Models part installed:

https://pbase.com/mecrharris/image/170833171
https://pbase.com/mecrharris/image/170833172

And here is the Plano part with Kato bell compared to the Details West(?) pewter part installed on an Athearn blue box SD40-2:

https://pbase.com/mecrharris/image/170833174
https://pbase.com/mecrharris/image/170833173

Huge improvement over the Overland part. Thanks James!

--
Ryan Harris
Fort Worth, TX

SOU Cab X400 Questions

David Friedlander
 

All,

I'm trying to model X400 as shown in the photos below. I'm guessing the caboose is rather new in the photos; perhaps still in 1969.  I actually have a brass caboose kit that is about 60% done and will look to finish it up in the next couple months as time allows.

These two photos are of X400 in particular:
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/caboose/x400a.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/caboose/x400b.jpg

Some questions:
1. What is the yellow box on the sill to the right of the generator on the axle? Is there a connection between it and the generator, but I just can't see it in the photos? I'm guessing its just a box to let the wiring go into the caboose.
2. Does anyone have closeup pictures or diagrams of this particular model of generator on the truck?  It looks like these changed over the years and I can't find anything that already commercially exists in O-scale to model this.  I'd like to draw it and have it printed, but these photos are too far away to do it justice.
3. What is the wording in the bottom right corner?  Looks like LUB. 5-7-69 and can't make out anything else.
4. Same question but on the end lettering.  I'm guessing similar information, but there is a third line.

Many thanks,
David Friedlander

Modeling SOU E6/E7 Cooling Pipes

David Friedlander
 

Ike,

While I don't mind thread/topic drift, I figured I'd start a new topic, to make it easier to search for by others in the future and not mix this up with what appears to be some sort of brake valve on the hood of the VO1000.

 
Now if someone can find me a good photo of E7 2905 and tell me its cooling pipes do not have fins, I will be extremely thankful to you. I'd MUCH rather model some sort of pipe jacketing than fins. I only will ever have one E7 for my modeling purposes, so what I have planned below is a lot of work (time and money) to achieve this really small detail in the big scheme of things.

Not sure I ever posted it to the group, but here is the 3rd Rail/Sunset Models O Scale Southern E7 I helped them with in reviewing artwork/detailing. Turned out really well IMHO. Its hard for them to justify making some of the really road-specific detail parts for such a low model count (We're talking minimum runs around 20), so the modeler still has to do some work.
https://davejfr0.blogspot.com/2019/12/2r-o-scale-southern-e7-by-sunset-models.html

As a reminder to others here, I model in O-Scale, so the dimensions make it easier to model small or complicated details compared to HO. Then again, things are so much smaller, so you might be able to get away with the illusion of having all of those fins too. 
 
In any case, here's my gameplan as of current.  All suggestions are welcome on how to move forward.
 
Taking the SRHA diagram you provided previously (THANK YOU!), it looks like the fins are more or less 4.25" x 4.25" x 0.025". If I scale that down to O scale (/48) that means the fins are really only .0005" thick which is insanely small and looks to be the thinnest that any etching company will support.  Now I can either try to replicate that exactly, or maybe I increase the thickness to make it easier to "handle" and reduce the amount of fins that I have to solder.  Who would know the difference other than you and me anyway?  I do know of a place that can do things that thin, so I will need to figure out what metals they can do (Aluminum, Copper, or Brass are preferred so I can solder). 

While I do have a working copy of really old CorelDraw, I have to make sure the etching firm can support that version of .cdr file. I've had issues in the past where they want .dxg, .ai, etc. and if that's the case, I need to figure out a new software solution, which will add time as I learn the learning curve on that, though this should be a super simple project.  On top of that, I have to remember all of the etching rules to do this (If I need to make each fin accept a .04" rod (~2" pipe), I think I need to make the hole slightly bigger than .04 by like 10-15%.  I also an contemplating a jig to solder all these fins together uniformly....And if I tin the .04" brass rod, how much thickness does tinning add? i guess I should tin up some .04" rod and bust out my calipers. In the end, if I go this route, I only want to pay for the photoetch tooling once.
 
Now what's the easiest way to solder all of these fins...well maybe I can get away with tinning the rod and just the portion around the center hole in each fin, and use a top/bottom jig to hold it all in place.  Lube it up with liquid flux, and then go to town with a torch. That or maybe I'll need to do each fin one at a time and use a jig that holds the current fin to be soldered in place with previous fins.  One would provide significant time savings vs. the other. There's literally hundreds of fins to do across just even four cooling pipes.  Then there is the cost consideration.  Between the photoetch tool and printing a few sheets of these for what I need, its probably going to run me $100-200, perhaps more. All for four cooling pipes.  Is it worth it? I am all about quality over quantity and am fortunate to still have a decent job, but that is like a third of the cost of the entire locomotive. I can think of much better uses for that kind of money.
 
What about 3D printing? I'm afraid 3D printing mostly likely can't build up those .0005" fins in either HO or even O. Looking at Shapeway's design rules for the smoothest detail plastic, I'm limited to .6mm (.024") for an unsupported wall, which isn't even close. It doesn't look like any 3D printed material at Shapeways can support this need. Or maybe I just go with .024" fins (vs .0005") since it can be easily drawn/printed in CAD, accept that they may not be as prototypical (I don't model P:48, so things don't necessarily have to be EXACT for me personally), and just move onto the next project.
 
David Friedlander
NYC or Columbia, MD

Re: SOU VO1000 2205 Spotting Feature Question

George Eichelberger
 

David:

If you figure out how to make those finned cooling coils, please (!) let me know how you did it. The photo is a Proto E-6A with the middle side panels cut out and replaced like the prototype when they were rebuilt to E-8 standards. As you can see, the model is close to be ready to finish but those coils are so distinctive, I have to have them.

The conversions were done when green paint was still the standard. Now that I have confirmed that I may !! repaint the model in green but that’s unlikely…they ran in black for quite a while.

BTW, I recall photos of E-7s with, and without the fins….

Ike



On Jun 27, 2020, at 1:14 AM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:

Thanks guys. Very interesting revelations on this.

From a modeling aspect, I'm okay with taking a passenger brake valve and modifying it to fit the need.  One of these should do the trick. https://www.ebay.com/itm/48-432-Passenger-Car-Brake-Control-Valve-Heavyweight-O-Scale-FKA-Keil-Line/322161704692

Much easier than trying to model the E7 cooling pipes.  Was thinking about that tonight for fun. Probably going to commercially etch .0005" metal fins and painstakingly solder them all to .04" brass rod. 32 fins/foot and the pipes were ~10'...can't wait. Gonna have to figure out how to do spacers. Wonder how long it takes for a sheet of paper to catch fire lol. Good thing I only own one E7.

David

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 10:45 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Scott:

I agree that is probably what the “thing” is but I have not been able to find a drawing for the VOs that confirms it. (It was not on the locos when delivered.)

Virtually every Southern diesel was modified to have an emergency brake valve in the cab. I can find nothing that says “why”. You would think as small as a diesel cab was, a second value would not be necessary. Was in case of a failure in the primary brake control? It shows up on a photo of Sou 2205 taken at Salisbury, NC (in original paint) on 7-8-59. The emergency valve drawings are all dated 10 or 11, 58.

I sent a note to Dick Fisher asking if he knows what the modification was. Dick worked for many years at Westinghouse (and I think the Southern) and is the most knowledgable “brake” person I know. More when I hear back from him if I don’t find a drawing or correspondence.

Ike


On Jun 23, 2020, at 9:30 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

My guess is it's a brake valve added when the brake schedule was upgraded at some point.


Scott Chatfield




Re: SOU VO1000 2205 Spotting Feature Question

David Friedlander
 

Thanks guys. Very interesting revelations on this.

From a modeling aspect, I'm okay with taking a passenger brake valve and modifying it to fit the need.  One of these should do the trick. https://www.ebay.com/itm/48-432-Passenger-Car-Brake-Control-Valve-Heavyweight-O-Scale-FKA-Keil-Line/322161704692

Much easier than trying to model the E7 cooling pipes.  Was thinking about that tonight for fun. Probably going to commercially etch .0005" metal fins and painstakingly solder them all to .04" brass rod. 32 fins/foot and the pipes were ~10'...can't wait. Gonna have to figure out how to do spacers. Wonder how long it takes for a sheet of paper to catch fire lol. Good thing I only own one E7.

David

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 10:45 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Scott:

I agree that is probably what the “thing” is but I have not been able to find a drawing for the VOs that confirms it. (It was not on the locos when delivered.)

Virtually every Southern diesel was modified to have an emergency brake valve in the cab. I can find nothing that says “why”. You would think as small as a diesel cab was, a second value would not be necessary. Was in case of a failure in the primary brake control? It shows up on a photo of Sou 2205 taken at Salisbury, NC (in original paint) on 7-8-59. The emergency valve drawings are all dated 10 or 11, 58.

I sent a note to Dick Fisher asking if he knows what the modification was. Dick worked for many years at Westinghouse (and I think the Southern) and is the most knowledgable “brake” person I know. More when I hear back from him if I don’t find a drawing or correspondence.

Ike


On Jun 23, 2020, at 9:30 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

My guess is it's a brake valve added when the brake schedule was upgraded at some point.


Scott Chatfield

Re: SOU VO1000 2205 Spotting Feature Question

George Eichelberger
 

Scott:

I agree that is probably what the “thing” is but I have not been able to find a drawing for the VOs that confirms it. (It was not on the locos when delivered.)

Virtually every Southern diesel was modified to have an emergency brake valve in the cab. I can find nothing that says “why”. You would think as small as a diesel cab was, a second value would not be necessary. Was in case of a failure in the primary brake control? It shows up on a photo of Sou 2205 taken at Salisbury, NC (in original paint) on 7-8-59. The emergency valve drawings are all dated 10 or 11, 58.

I sent a note to Dick Fisher asking if he knows what the modification was. Dick worked for many years at Westinghouse (and I think the Southern) and is the most knowledgable “brake” person I know. More when I hear back from him if I don’t find a drawing or correspondence.

Ike


On Jun 23, 2020, at 9:30 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

My guess is it's a brake valve added when the brake schedule was upgraded at some point.


Scott Chatfield

Re: SOU VO1000 2205 Spotting Feature Question

D. Scott Chatfield
 

My guess is it's a brake valve added when the brake schedule was upgraded at some point.


Scott Chatfield

Re: HO scale long hood bell and mount

Ryan Harris
 

Thank you, James. I really like the Plano etch and it looks like the Kato bell will look great in it. I might be retrofitting a few older models with this part.

Ryan

On 6/23/2020 4:06 PM, James wrote:
Ryan,

There are two options I will recommend.  

First is the Plano GP30 high hood bell,  It is correct for all the Southern high hood bells from the GP30 thru the last SD40-2’s and GP50’s.  It does require other parts like your Kato bell to complete.  It is an etched part and not for the light hearted with around 5 parts in etches.  It is a very nice part when completed.

The other option is the new Athearn Genesis part used on the Southern models in the Genesis line.  I do not have part number in front of me right now but as Athearn is not completely open I do not know how available the part is.  Other draw back is it is $8 but is does include all the needed parts.

On Jun 23, 2020, at 15:57, Ryan Harris <ryan.harris@...> wrote:

I have some models I built and detailed many years ago that I'm upgrading. One of them is a GP39X, which has an Overland bell and mounting bracket installed on the long hood end. That was a really nice part in 1992 when I built the model but it's way oversize for HO scale. Can anyone recommend a better part that's closer to HO scale or should I just make my own? I have a Kato bell that would look good installed in either a scratchbuilt part or something off the shelf.
--
Ryan Harris
Fort Worth, TX
_

James Wall
Rural Hall, NC





--
Ryan Harris
Fort Worth, TX

Re: HO scale long hood bell and mount

James
 

Ryan,

There are two options I will recommend.  

First is the Plano GP30 high hood bell,  It is correct for all the Southern high hood bells from the GP30 thru the last SD40-2’s and GP50’s.  It does require other parts like your Kato bell to complete.  It is an etched part and not for the light hearted with around 5 parts in etches.  It is a very nice part when completed.

The other option is the new Athearn Genesis part used on the Southern models in the Genesis line.  I do not have part number in front of me right now but as Athearn is not completely open I do not know how available the part is.  Other draw back is it is $8 but is does include all the needed parts.

On Jun 23, 2020, at 15:57, Ryan Harris <ryan.harris@...> wrote:

I have some models I built and detailed many years ago that I'm upgrading. One of them is a GP39X, which has an Overland bell and mounting bracket installed on the long hood end. That was a really nice part in 1992 when I built the model but it's way oversize for HO scale. Can anyone recommend a better part that's closer to HO scale or should I just make my own? I have a Kato bell that would look good installed in either a scratchbuilt part or something off the shelf.
--
Ryan Harris
Fort Worth, TX
_

James Wall
Rural Hall, NC



HO scale long hood bell and mount

Ryan Harris
 

I have some models I built and detailed many years ago that I'm upgrading. One of them is a GP39X, which has an Overland bell and mounting bracket installed on the long hood end. That was a really nice part in 1992 when I built the model but it's way oversize for HO scale. Can anyone recommend a better part that's closer to HO scale or should I just make my own? I have a Kato bell that would look good installed in either a scratchbuilt part or something off the shelf.
--
Ryan Harris
Fort Worth, TX

SOU VO1000 2205 Spotting Feature Question

David Friedlander
 

Hi all,

Collecting hopefully the remaining parts I need to one day build the modified VO1000 2205 near the end of its life.

I'm trying to figure out what contraption is on the hood near the cab.  Any ideas?

Inserting image below...


Thanks,
David Friedlander

Re: New Run of Athearn Rapid Discharge Cars Data Problem

Ryan Harris
 

Outstanding. Thanks a bunch, Ike.
--
Ryan Harris
Fort Worth, TX

Re: New Run of Athearn Rapid Discharge Cars Data Problem

George Eichelberger
 

Ryan:

Hubert Mask is always great to work with. I’ll gather all of the drawings (most are pretty standard block style SR stencils) and get them to him in the next few days. 

Ike




On Jun 19, 2020, at 1:55 PM, Ryan Harris <ryan.harris@...> wrote:

Thanks, Ike.

I knew there was no chance at all they would modify the tooling to allow both four and five bay models to be produced, but that's OK. I'm taking care of that myself.

I'd still love to see Mask Island make the black decals for the single aluminum rapid discharge hopper, but those emails have gone unanswered.

--
Ryan Harris
Fort Worth, TX

Re: New Run of Athearn Rapid Discharge Cars Data Problem

Ryan Harris
 

Thanks, Ike.

I knew there was no chance at all they would modify the tooling to allow both four and five bay models to be produced, but that's OK. I'm taking care of that myself.

I'd still love to see Mask Island make the black decals for the single aluminum rapid discharge hopper, but those emails have gone unanswered.

--
Ryan Harris
Fort Worth, TX

Re: New Run of Athearn Rapid Discharge Cars Data Problem

George Eichelberger
 

Ryan:

Athern has asked for drawings from SRHA before…but not this time? We would have reminded them to omit the middle hopper bay for Southern cars. (They were first to ask for “Big John” data but never produced the car. We learned they were just not confident a Southern Rwy car would sell.)

Still…. it's good to see them come out with a Southeastern paint scheme, if not a prototype.)

Here’s a jpg of half of Ortner drawing OC-5020-7 that includes the cars’ dim data. The numbers need to be checked against photos….

Ike



On Jun 19, 2020, at 12:05 PM, Ryan Harris <ryan.harris@...> wrote:

I recently received my order of the latest run of Southern Ortner Rapid Discharge cars from Athearn. I didn't find any issues with the assembly of the cars, but every one of the 33 cars I bought (two each of the five packs, three singles) is missing the data in the CAPY, LD LMT and LT WT fields on both sides of the car. I have alerted Athearn about this and their response was:
Ryan,

Thank you for your inquiry, we have forwarded this inquiry to our product development staff for further analysis and investigation. We will await an appropriate response from them.

-Athearn Help
Did anyone else buy cars from this run and get the same thing as me or did your cars have the data printed?

I am only going to keep the 16 unique numbers out of the 33 cars, so this shouldn't be too big a problem to correct on those. But I'm going to go through a lot of decal sets correcting the other 17 cars.

Here's a quick photo of the issue:

<170808471.WsQkA2cJ.jpg>

And a link to the photo if it doesn't show up:

https://pbase.com/mecrharris/image/170808471

--
Ryan Harris
Fort Worth, TX <20200619_104736.jpg>

New Run of Athearn Rapid Discharge Cars Data Problem

Ryan Harris
 

I recently received my order of the latest run of Southern Ortner Rapid Discharge cars from Athearn. I didn't find any issues with the assembly of the cars, but every one of the 33 cars I bought (two each of the five packs, three singles) is missing the data in the CAPY, LD LMT and LT WT fields on both sides of the car. I have alerted Athearn about this and their response was:
Ryan,

Thank you for your inquiry, we have forwarded this inquiry to our product development staff for further analysis and investigation. We will await an appropriate response from them.

-Athearn Help
Did anyone else buy cars from this run and get the same thing as me or did your cars have the data printed?

I am only going to keep the 16 unique numbers out of the 33 cars, so this shouldn't be too big a problem to correct on those. But I'm going to go through a lot of decal sets correcting the other 17 cars.

Here's a quick photo of the issue:



And a link to the photo if it doesn't show up:

https://pbase.com/mecrharris/image/170808471

--
Ryan Harris
Fort Worth, TX

SRHA June and July Archives Work Sessions Are Cancelled

George Eichelberger
 

All:

Here is the text of an email from SRHA President Carl Ardrey cancelling the June and July SRHA Archives work sessions. With advance planning it MAY be possible for people to access the archives for research during July depending on the factors in Carl’s note at that time. Contact archives@... if you plan to go to TVRM then.

Ike

Due to the uncertainties in the future regarding legal exposure, entry requirements, possible COVID spikes, changes in state stay at home orders, TVRM's status, exposure of our members, plus a multitude of other issues it's probably best we cancel the planned work sessions for June and July.  Those with archives access can continue their individual work either on site or working from home. This will limit any possible person to person exposure. We will also start keeping a record of our visits on sign in sheet which would also assist in reporting personal car mileage deduction to the IRS for 501c3 work.  While the work will be slowed during this period we can still keep things moving along with our core group. TVRM is in concurrence. "When in doubt the safest course must be taken". 

Southern/NS-NW wood chip hopper rerun - reserve now

Jim King
 

I’ve reached the minimum number of reservations required to justify another run of 25+ Southern and NW/NS large wood chip hopper kits.  Body castings will begin middle of next week.  Shipments are scheduled to begin by end of the month, but delays caused by my suppliers being behind due to the virus may push that back a little.  I have all of the materiel to make molds and castings, which is the most time-consuming part of the process.

 

If you missed out on the last rerun earlier this year, now’s the time to “get on board”.  View details about this kit here:  http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/HO_rolling_stock.html

 

Contact me off-list to ask questions, place an order, etc.  Last date to place an order is next Friday, 6/12, by 5:00.  An invoice will be emailed to you and payment-in-full is required before kits are mailed on a first-paid-first-shipped basis.  Thank you.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 

Re: COMPLETE

rwbrv4
 

Will give that a shot on the next clinic I do.
Rick




On Friday, May 29, 2020 George Eichelberger <ModelingTheSouthern@SouthernRailway.groups.io> wrote:

Rick:

I see the same problem with the .io groups. The problem seems worse if you try to add a photo to a message while you are logged on to their site. Acknowledgement that the attachment has “taken” may never happen, there seems to be a long time delay with attachments at times. I THINK I have better luck creating a new mail message (same subject) and adding photos locally then sending everything to .io in one email?

Ike


On May 29, 2020, at 7:04 AM, rwbrv4 via groups.io <dccinstallssales@...> wrote:

I can't explain why photos would post on one email but not the next.  I got them in there finally though.
Rick Bell