locked Re: Southern Passenger Train Consist Similarities


Robert Hanson
 

That consist you describe, Bill, sounds almost like a "make-up" train assembled in a hurry after it was learned that the connecting train would be very, very late.

Bob Hanson


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Jun 28, 2020 2:25 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Passenger Train Consist Similarities

Initial comments:

The prewar Southerner would not have run with any full baggage or mail cars. Its original consist just had a combination baggage-dorm-coach ahead of the Jim Crow coach, then two full coaches, dining car, another coach, then observation car - seven cars. I think (without digging) the train ran with an extra coach north of Atlanta.


The Southern Crescent would not have run regularly with a coach-lounge but would have always run with a Crescent-series master room-2 drawing room-tavern lounge. 

The prewar Pullman-Standard dining cars (e.g., Alexandria) were out of service by the time the Southern Crescent began operating circa 1969. Budd dining cars were used exclusively. Ditto for the prewar 56-seat coaches.

Don’t forget there is an “h” at the end of “Shenandoah”

The Southern Crescent was never advertised with an 11-double bedroom sleeper in its consist. Those cars ran to accommodate overflow bedroom passengers (often pass holders) or special groups. 

When it ran in the off season, the Southern Crescent was only 8 or 9 cars long anyway and would fit into your maximum length, but it also ran with four E8s, regardless of length. If the train ran in two sections, it had two E8s on the short section and three E8s on the long section.

I rode the Southern Crescent on business probably 100 times, and wrote down the consist almost every time, so if you want some typical consists, I can send you some. The cars were not always arranged like you’d expect them to be. Below is a Jim McClellan shot of the Southern Crescent with a minimal consist. Behind the four E8s is: baggage-dorm-coach, 52-seat coach, sleeper-tavern lounge, Budd 48-seat dining car, two more 52-seat coaches, and two 10-6 sleepers. There may also have been a 52-seat coach behind the sleepers for short-haul passengers. Jim shot this picture from the vestibule of the second sleeper northbound somewhere between Manassas and Alexandria. 


—Bill

On Jun 28, 2020, at 09:23, Robert Hanson via groups.io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

In the 1960's and 1970's the coaches generally ran ahead of the diner and the sleepers were placed behind it on almost all passenger trains. There were exceptions, but that was the general practice.

For reasons unknown Amtrak reversed the order some time in the 1980's or 1990's.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jun 28, 2020 1:22 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Passenger Train Consist Similarities

Just my thoughts:

Using your list here-

late 1960's Crescent /early 1970's Southern Crescent (8-cars):
-1700 Corinth (60FT Bag-Mail, with plating over flutes)
-1751 Greeneville (Bag-Mail, with plating over lower flutes)
-2010 Rapidan River (10-6 sleeper)
-2014 Shenandoa River (10-6 sleeper)
-3304 Alexandria (48-seat dining car; de-skirted) (Did this run on the Crescent or should it be a Budd diner?)
-951 (Coach-Lounge)
-822 (52s Coach)
-824 (52s Coach)


Add-on:
-2017 Tiger River (10-6 sleeper)
-2022 York River (10-6 sleeper)
-817 (52s Coach)
-830 (52s Coach)
-Maybe more 10-6 and 52s coaches if demand is there or other railroads fit onto the the same car plan

Add on the 11 bedroom sleepers that were common. Do some of your 10-6 sleepers in the other roads like L&N or FEC. Maybe an add-on AWP diner or sleeper. I believe the PRR has some 10-6 sleepers of the same floor plan without fluting.

You take all these and you now have a good Royal Palm and maybe a Peach Queen or Piedmont.

Jason Greene

> On Jun 27, 2020, at 9:42 PM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:
>
> late 1960's Crescent /early 1970's Southern Crescent (8-cars):
> -1700 Corinth (60FT Bag-Mail, with plating over flutes)
> -1751 Greeneville (Bag-Mail, with plating over lower flutes)
> -2010 Rapidan River (10-6 sleeper)
> -2014 Shenandoa River (10-6 sleeper)
> -3304 Alexandria (48-seat dining car; de-skirted) (Did this run on the Crescent or should it be a Budd diner?)
> -951 (Coach-Lounge)
> -822 (52s Coach)
> -824 (52s Coach)
>
>
> Add-on:
> -2017 Tiger River (10-6 sleeper)
> -2022 York River (10-6 sleeper)
> -817 (52s Coach)
> -830 (52s Coach)
> -Maybe more 10-6 and 52s coaches if demand is there or other railroads fit onto the the same car plan



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