locked Re: Enoree River

Robert Hanson

Luther Calvin Norris (1846-1930) was the father of Southern Railway president Ernest E. Norris.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2019 12:51 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Enoree River

Yes, the Royal Arch was a 5 DBR-Obs-Lounge - one of three owned by the SOU built in 1950 for the Crescent and New Royal Palm, the other two being Royal Palm and Royal Court. In 1950, the Royal Arch’s name was changed to Luther Calvin Norris. I don’t know why - does anyone know who "Luther Calvin Norris" was? 1950 was about the time Southern’s president, Ernest Norris, retired - was this his father?

Anyway, the three obs cars were converted by Pullman to 11 DBR cars in September-October 1958 and remained in SOU’s Pullman car fleet into the post-Amtrak era (1971). From the time I started paying attention to SOU passenger trains (1966-present), I would occasionally see an 11 DBR car in service, but not in the timetable - they must have been used as extra cars, for special movements, and on office car specials. The Pullman Company may also have commandeered them from time to time for off-line special movements. Sometime in the early-1970s each of the three 11 DBR cars was equipped with a shower at the end of the hall. (10-6 sleeper Tugalo River was also shower equipped at the same time - I think Roomette 9 or 10 was sacrificed). If you happened to be riding the Southern Crescent when one of the four shower-equipped cars was in the consist, the porter would provide you with a towel and washcloth, and you could use the shower.

In 1974 or thereabouts (anybody remember the exact year?) the northbound Southern Crescent derailed somewhere around Eutaw, Ala. The Luther Calvin Norris was in the consist and damaged beyond repair. To my surprise, Hayne Shop was called on to convert 10-6 sleeper York River to a shower-equipped 11 DBR car, which was renamed Royal Arch

The car at NCTM-Spencer is this car, Royal Arch, which began life as the York River. If my memory serves me correctly, the car still looks like a 10-6 on the aisle side - three widely spaced windows opposite the original bedrooms and five more closely spaced windows where roomettes used to be. If Spencer ever gets around to restoring the car to its Southern Railway appearance, it would be cool if they named it Royal Arch on the bedroom side (where it looks like an 11 DBR car) and York River on the aisle side (where it looks like a 10-6). 

Just sayin’ . . .

—Bill Schafer

On Aug 17, 2019, at 11:29 AM, James <nsc39dash8@...> wrote:

The David Randall guide states Southern purchased 24(2400 - 2423) of the 46 10-6 sleepers in the order.  
Here are the names of the rivers from the Wiley and Wallace guidebook:
St. John’s

The CNOTP 3400 cars, 3400 - 3404:

French Broad

I pose this question to the group.  The Royal Arch was rebuilt to a 11 Bedroom sleeper from an observation car of the same name.  This car was involved in a wreck and my understanding is the York river was rebuilt to 11 bedroom to replace the Royal Arch.  Is this true?  The 11 bedroom Royal Arch is at the museum in Spencer should then be originally the York River.

James Wall

There's a diagram for the 10-Roomette-6 Double Bedroom car Enoree River (along with all the other cars in the series) in the 1956 Southern Railway passenger car diagram book in my possession, also a listing for the car in the 1961 Pullman Official List.

There's also a photo of the car on page 75 of David Randall's The Official Pullman-Standard Library - Vol. 7, Southeast Roads.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA

-----Original Message-----
From: O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...>
To: main <main@southernrailway.groups.io>
Sent: Sat, Aug 17, 2019 7:54 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Enoree River

The Southern Railway had three 10-6 'River'sleepers that had an "E" at the start, Emory River, Enoree River and Etowah River.  You can pick your favorite.
Fenton Wells

On Sat, Aug 17, 2019 at 4:47 AM Gary Bechdol <garyeb1947@...> wrote:
There is a picture of the 10-6 Pullman Enoree River on page 75 of W. David Randall's Pullman-Standard Library, Vol. 7.  There is no listing of a car named Eno River. 

Gary Bechdol 
Stone Mountain, Ga 

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019, 11:35 PM Jim Thurston <jthurston@...> wrote:
I assumed that the original post on this topic had a typo in the subject line, and that it should have read "Emory River" - but no one ever corrected it.

On the other hand, Ike posted a photo of the "Emory River" car. Reasonable evidence that a car by that name existed - although Ike is pretty good with Photoshop.

Geographically, there is such a thing as the "Enoree River" (in SC), but evidence a car was given that name does not seem to have emerged.

Jim Thurston

James Wall
Rural Hall, NC

Join main@SouthernRailway.groups.io to automatically receive all group messages.