Date   

locked Re: Southern Ps-4 picture info

C J Wyatt
 

I believe it made it easier to reach the water spout, though that practice was not common on other roads. In my opinion, it probably helped to keep one's feet dry when the water overflowed the tender tank.

Jack Wyatt

On Saturday, April 11, 2020, 03:22:36 PM EDT, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


What is the platform on the back deck of the tender?


locked Re: Southern Ps-4 picture info

Charles Powell
 

What is the platform on the back deck of the tender?


locked Re: E-6 B upgrades

C J Wyatt
 

No, they got portholes and other doodad's.

See attached photo.

Jack Wyatt

On Saturday, April 11, 2020, 12:58:13 PM EDT, Doug Alexander <doug_alexander@...> wrote:


Hey, I'm wondering about the E6-B units that remained in service into the 60's.  My understanding is that they were upgraded internally to E-8 standards, though outside they still looked like E-6's.
--
Doug Alexander
Atlanta


locked E-6 B upgrades

Doug Alexander
 

Hey, I'm wondering about the E6-B units that remained in service into the 60's.  My understanding is that they were upgraded internally to E-8 standards, though outside they still looked like E-6's.
--
Doug Alexander
Atlanta


locked Re: Southern Office Car 21 file.

George Eichelberger
 

Allan:

It may have been OC-5 when you rode it.

You are certainly correct about being “plain”. One of the really interesting things about the Hayne Shop file is the series of “as-built” interior photos. OC-X/21/5 is the only car so well documented. We will back date the car somewhat but not to the point of ripping out all of the modifications done while it was Sou 5 or NS 8.

The outside swing hanger trucks in lieu of the original Pullman are documented in the file. Unfortunately, the prior owner sold them. The folks at Norfolk Southern were looking to see what they had at Altoona that might be donated or sold but no word on that yet. TVRM acquired a good set of Pullman style trucks (made in Canada) from the Western MD Scenic. We’d want different trucks to run the car off of TVRM trackage but they will be fine for now. (Anybody that can help acquire a set of swing hanger trucks..please contact me or TVRM!)

One item we will include in the restoration (if cost allows) is the red leather upholstery. The PO in the file lists two “hides”. Hayne did all of the work necessary to finish them for the sofa and chairs in the dining/office section.

Ike

On Apr 11, 2020, at 11:21 AM, Harry Paul <hapaul117@...> wrote:

Ike: Many thanks for the link. I got to work on and ride several Southern offices cars during my RR career, both in company and private ownership. Also several of the former Southern cars after they followed Mr. Crane to Conrail. However I don’t believe the 21 was one of them. Since most of the cars were very similar inside and out I will be very interested to see the 21 file and how it compares with the Southern cars I did work on. They were plain cars when compared to some other railroads. But rode really well, particularly the ones that got 6 wheel outside swing hanger trucks with truck mounted brake cylinders, and were well maintained in the Southern days.

Thanks for all you have done and continue to do to preserve and interpret the Southern’s wonderful history. Stay healthy and keep washing those hands!! Allan.
On Apr 11, 2020, at 10:54 AM, george eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Allan:

If you’ll simply paste the following Google Drive link into your browser’s address line, it will take you directly to the file.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12X09OwiAjBENPKgFXq2hfClh5vBvcfsD?usp=sharing

Note the file starts when the Southern took “Point Richmond” off the Pullman lease and began its conversion to Office Car “X”. It changed numbers several times but it is being restored as Southern 21 as the years it carried that number corresponds to many of the pieces of Southern passenger equipment at TVRM. Some of the mechanical topics you’ll see are not going to be restored in that form; no batteries or axle driven generator for example as the car has it own generator, purchased and upgraded by the Southern.

Join us at a SRHA work session, we typically take time to go to the TVRM shop to check on the car’s progress.

Ike



On Apr 11, 2020, at 9:56 AM, Harry Paul <hapaul117@...> wrote:

I enjoyed reading about the recent acquisition and movement of former Southern Railway Office Car 21 to the TVRM in the latest issue of “Amongst Ourselves”. I would appreciate receiving the link mentioned in the article to view details of the car’s conversion at Hayne Shops.

Thank you. Allan Paul.

Sent from my iPhone



locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Evan Miller
 

Thanks for the builders photos Justin. Didn’t know they had red trucks as well. Southern sure loved to have lettering all over their coal cars! I’ve never seen another railroad with as much data and warnings on theirs as Southern had.

When were the first Big Reds delivered by the way?

-Evan Miller

On Apr 10, 2020, at 7:49 PM, Justin May <westpointroute@...> wrote:


Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.
Pullman Standard builders photos -

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou78802&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou79263&o=sou

Justin May


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Thanks Darrell.  Next time I'm at the archives I'll see if we have the NCP folders for these cars.


Scott Chatfield


locked Re: Future Wax Use

George Eichelberger
 

Curtis:

Thanks for the info!

Ike


On Apr 10, 2020, at 6:39 PM, Curtis Brookshire via groups.io <curtis.brookshire@...> wrote:

Re: ModelingTheSouthern: I found it. It's a subgroup. Look at your io.groups menu while logged in to this site and click on "subgroups". You should find ModelingTheSouthern. 
Good luck,
Curtis Brookshire
Pine Level, NC


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Justin May
 

Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.
Pullman Standard builders photos -

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou78802&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou79263&o=sou

Justin May


locked Re: Future Wax Use

Curtis Brookshire
 

Re: ModelingTheSouthern: I found it. It's a subgroup. Look at your io.groups menu while logged in to this site and click on "subgroups". You should find ModelingTheSouthern. 
Good luck,
Curtis Brookshire
Pine Level, NC


locked Re: Future Wax Use

Almufti Hishman
 

Hi Allen,

There is a Southern Modeler's group on Groups.io

SouthernRailway | ModelingTheSouthern

I would be happy to tell you there that I mostly brush Future, it levels well and dries thin.

Regards,
Jeff Oliver


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Stephen Warner
 

I do remember these 78 and 79 thousand hoppers, and rerailed more than I cared to, since my territory was a major Sou. coal route.  The first design, if you looked closely at the truck location (not in these pix, these came later), had one axle on each end jutting out past the car end.  I always understood that this was changed because the truck spacing matched the rail joint spacing (before CWR) and allowed too much harmonic rocking action/derailments on our old, battered joints.  This was especially bad on the curves on the TB/St. Charles Line 100LB AC rail.  The other thing as that they wore the rail badly - I could always hear them squealing on the sharp curves, much louder (and heavier) than the Silversides. SR tried steering trucks, but it added too much Tare Wt. and created overload potential since exactly 100 M's plus tare equaled 286K, but just a minute too long at a flood loader would have a 290K or more car, overweight. I proved this to Mr. Rose, which he already suspected.  These pix bring back a lot of memories.


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Stuart Thayer
 

Evan,

You are correct.  These would have been considered PS3's.  PS3 was nomenclature used by Pullman-Standard for all open top hoppers just like PS1 was nomenclature for all boxcars.

Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 4/10/2020 5:29:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, nsrailfan82@... writes:

Thanks everyone! I’m assuming these are 100 ton PS-3’s, but perhaps built to Southern specs? L&N had plenty of PS-3’s but theirs had a different slope angle and more panels/ribs.

-Evan Miller

On Apr 10, 2020, at 4:12 PM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

According to the diagram book these cars 78800-79299 were built by PS in 1975
Fenton

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:06 PM darrell2010 via groups.io <darrell2010=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.

Darrell Sawyer



On Friday, April 10, 2020, 02:03:17 PM MDT, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:


Pullman-Standard, if memory serves.  Not ex-CG.


Scott Chatfield


"Evan Miller via groups.io" <nsrailfan82=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello everyone, I was looking though the photos on the Southern Railfan photo archives and these hoppers I've linked below caught my attention.  Would anyone happen to have any information regarding this class? They lasted long enough into the NS era to receive the designation of HS-22. I know they can't be from Southern's massive fleet of 3 bay 70 tonners built in the 50's. They're not the 3 bay  Committee Design cars. And they are not the 3 bay Greenville cars that were built just before the merger. Perhaps Southern received these before switching to the Big Red design?
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79121.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/78959.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79235.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79219.jpg
-Evan Miller

 




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Evan Miller
 

Thanks everyone! I’m assuming these are 100 ton PS-3’s, but perhaps built to Southern specs? L&N had plenty of PS-3’s but theirs had a different slope angle and more panels/ribs. 

-Evan Miller 

On Apr 10, 2020, at 4:12 PM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


According to the diagram book these cars 78800-79299 were built by PS in 1975
Fenton

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:06 PM darrell2010 via groups.io <darrell2010=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75. 

Darrell Sawyer



On Friday, April 10, 2020, 02:03:17 PM MDT, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:


Pullman-Standard, if memory serves.  Not ex-CG.


Scott Chatfield


"Evan Miller via groups.io" <nsrailfan82=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello everyone, I was looking though the photos on the Southern Railfan photo archives and these hoppers I've linked below caught my attention.  Would anyone happen to have any information regarding this class? They lasted long enough into the NS era to receive the designation of HS-22. I know they can't be from Southern's massive fleet of 3 bay 70 tonners built in the 50's. They're not the 3 bay  Committee Design cars. And they are not the 3 bay Greenville cars that were built just before the merger. Perhaps Southern received these before switching to the Big Red design?
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79121.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/78959.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79235.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79219.jpg
-Evan Miller



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


locked Re: Future Wax Use

Allen Cain
 

Ike,

I know, just having a little fun.

Allen Cain


locked Re: Safety slogans on cabooses

Allen Cain
 

If you look closely there are two dates in the outline on the left, 3-77 and 8-31-84, FWIW.

Allen Cain


locked Re: Safety slogans on cabooses

Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...>
 




On Apr 10, 2020, at 4:22 PM, Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...> wrote:


<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>
<image2.jpeg>



On Apr 10, 2020, at 4:06 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

I’m going by memory here, but IIRC, the safety slogans on cabooses were commonplace in the 1970s but they weren’t universal. I clearly remember the slogans in the Southern Railway era - they were NOT an NS initiative.

Maybe someone on this list can confirm or debunk, but what I remember is that Southern started to get serious about safety in the 1970s during the Graham Claytor administration. Safety committees were formed on each division, and I’m betting that one of the safety gimmicks was for each committee to come up with a catchy slogan(s) to be stenciled at the steps of cabooses, maybe at a local rip track. The Union Pacific had been sloganeering their cabooses for some time before Southern, and Southern’s practice seemed to me to emulate the UP. 

Of the examples illustrated up to now, it looks to me that the slogans were localized. What I mean is that if anyone had come up with a list of slogans and where they originated, you could tell what safety committee came up with a given slogan. 

I’m not surprised that the slogans continued into the NS era. What we sometimes forget is that much of the Southern still looked like the Southern five years or so after merger with N&W in 1982. The reason is that the operating departments of the component railroads were operated separately until Robert Claytor retired in 1987. Because railroads were trying hard to phase out cabooses in the early 1980s, and because, operating-wise, there still was a “Southern” and an “N&W” in the mid-1980s, I’m not aware of any caboose that was painted “Norfolk Southern” and used in regular caboose service. They stayed SOU or N&W to the end, and the SOU slogans would have stayed intact on the steps of their cabooses. 

—Bill Schafer



On Apr 10, 2020, at 3:39 PM, Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...> wrote:

I have a number of caboose photos that have them. Most are two lines in small white letters and not readable in lower resolution scans. I have not gone back to my original slides or negatives to check but there appears to e numerous slogans!

Warren


On Apr 10, 2020, at 10:57 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Warren:

I don’t see references to safety slogans on any cab drawings or documentation we have scanned.

I don’t recall ever seeing any on a photo but I’d expect they would be like on steam locos, done at a Division, shop or even roundhouse level rather than a “system” standard we’d see in Mechanical or Engineering Dept. documentation?

Have you seen an example?

Ike

PS Things have been hectic for everyone lately, but we are moving ahead to get quotes on casting parts for the ex-WrightTrak bay window cabs so SRHA can make them available.


On Apr 10, 2020, at 10:43 AM, Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...> wrote:

YIs there a list of the safety slogans on Southern cabooses!

W Calloway





locked Re: Southern Ps-4 picture info

O Fenton Wells
 

I have a copy of the same photo I got from Shelby Lowe and he told me the photo was taken at Atlanta and in the early 1950's.  Don't know much more than that but I really like the "scene" and wished we had a copy that could be blown up for framing.
Fenton

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:21 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Jason:

I agree about Atlanta Term Station but I cannot confirm the location using the ATS interlocking drawing (GRS 2-1-39, last updated 9-23-40). The string of REA cars in the photo must be farther from the Railway Express building than they look? The paving across the tracks in front of the engine really helps….track 12?

Here’s a snippet from the drawing. At 100M, it’s too large to send and details would be lost if I tried to reduce the whole thing. The file the drawing comes from in the archives is on the rehab of the terminal’s interlocking.

Ike




On Apr 10, 2020, at 3:29 PM, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Looks like Atlanta at Terminal Station. 

Jason Greene 

On Apr 10, 2020, at 2:50 PM, jhtmd1@... wrote:



Hello, new to the group. It was highly recommended by a fellow modeler.  I need some information regarding a photo of a Southern Ps-4.  Does anyone recognize the area, date, and most important the cab number of the engine?  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks so much.



<C7A44173-223D-493A-B5B8-35AC713838A6.jpeg>




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


locked Re: Safety slogans on cabooses

Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...>
 




On Apr 10, 2020, at 4:06 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

I’m going by memory here, but IIRC, the safety slogans on cabooses were commonplace in the 1970s but they weren’t universal. I clearly remember the slogans in the Southern Railway era - they were NOT an NS initiative.

Maybe someone on this list can confirm or debunk, but what I remember is that Southern started to get serious about safety in the 1970s during the Graham Claytor administration. Safety committees were formed on each division, and I’m betting that one of the safety gimmicks was for each committee to come up with a catchy slogan(s) to be stenciled at the steps of cabooses, maybe at a local rip track. The Union Pacific had been sloganeering their cabooses for some time before Southern, and Southern’s practice seemed to me to emulate the UP. 

Of the examples illustrated up to now, it looks to me that the slogans were localized. What I mean is that if anyone had come up with a list of slogans and where they originated, you could tell what safety committee came up with a given slogan. 

I’m not surprised that the slogans continued into the NS era. What we sometimes forget is that much of the Southern still looked like the Southern five years or so after merger with N&W in 1982. The reason is that the operating departments of the component railroads were operated separately until Robert Claytor retired in 1987. Because railroads were trying hard to phase out cabooses in the early 1980s, and because, operating-wise, there still was a “Southern” and an “N&W” in the mid-1980s, I’m not aware of any caboose that was painted “Norfolk Southern” and used in regular caboose service. They stayed SOU or N&W to the end, and the SOU slogans would have stayed intact on the steps of their cabooses. 

—Bill Schafer



On Apr 10, 2020, at 3:39 PM, Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...> wrote:

I have a number of caboose photos that have them. Most are two lines in small white letters and not readable in lower resolution scans. I have not gone back to my original slides or negatives to check but there appears to e numerous slogans!

Warren


On Apr 10, 2020, at 10:57 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Warren:

I don’t see references to safety slogans on any cab drawings or documentation we have scanned.

I don’t recall ever seeing any on a photo but I’d expect they would be like on steam locos, done at a Division, shop or even roundhouse level rather than a “system” standard we’d see in Mechanical or Engineering Dept. documentation?

Have you seen an example?

Ike

PS Things have been hectic for everyone lately, but we are moving ahead to get quotes on casting parts for the ex-WrightTrak bay window cabs so SRHA can make them available.


On Apr 10, 2020, at 10:43 AM, Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...> wrote:

YIs there a list of the safety slogans on Southern cabooses!

W Calloway





locked Re: Southern Ps-4 picture info

George Eichelberger
 

Jason:

I agree about Atlanta Term Station but I cannot confirm the location using the ATS interlocking drawing (GRS 2-1-39, last updated 9-23-40). The string of REA cars in the photo must be farther from the Railway Express building than they look? The paving across the tracks in front of the engine really helps….track 12?

Here’s a snippet from the drawing. At 100M, it’s too large to send and details would be lost if I tried to reduce the whole thing. The file the drawing comes from in the archives is on the rehab of the terminal’s interlocking.

Ike




On Apr 10, 2020, at 3:29 PM, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Looks like Atlanta at Terminal Station. 

Jason Greene 

On Apr 10, 2020, at 2:50 PM, jhtmd1@... wrote:



Hello, new to the group. It was highly recommended by a fellow modeler.  I need some information regarding a photo of a Southern Ps-4.  Does anyone recognize the area, date, and most important the cab number of the engine?  Any help would be appreciated.  Thanks so much.



<C7A44173-223D-493A-B5B8-35AC713838A6.jpeg>


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