Date   

locked Southern P-S 40' box car 262054

George Eichelberger
 

In looking for a photo of a HO model produced by Kadee (the model has black paint on the ends, we have talked about them here) for a question on the steam era freight car group, I sent the attached photo of Southern 262064 as “evidence” it is likely only the one car produced by Kadee, Southern 262063, had black ends.

Looking more closely at the Oscar Kimsey photo taken of 262064 at Augusta, GA 5-21-73, I see a real “mystery” gondola with high ends (usually for loading pipe). I may be reading the road number 60608 wrong, or there is a missing digit, but I cannot find any similar cars in the Southern freight car diagram books or the RER.

Does anyone have any ideas what it is? The Southern did not use the “SOU” reporting mark in 1973 and it is in a completely wrong place on the car.

Ike


locked Re: Ten wheeler question

William Harley
 

Diagram of the Southern F-14 can be found in “Southern Steam Power” by Ranks and Lowe.  There is a great shot of # 1094 in Richard E. Prince’s “Southern Railway Systems Steam Locomotives and Boats” on p.92.
Diagram of Southern Pacific T-31 can be found in MR Cyclopedia.
Similarities are the boiler dimensions and shape, driver size and spacing.
Most noticeable difference is that the SP cab sits about two feet farther back that the Sou F-14 cab.  This may be because the F-14 firebox took up space inside the cab or the firebox was just shorter than the SP engine.

Using the Varney Casey Jones engine as a starting point strip down the boiler of unwanted detail.
The cab could be cut off and moved 2 feet forward to get the right proportions for the Sou. F-14.
I chose to use the running gear from a Bowser PRR G-5 which has the same driver size, spacing that is close enough and a frame that is 2 feet shorter than the Varney frame. 
The steam chest from a Kemptron Wabash 2-6-0 fits the frame and boiler. 
The Southern Valve gear used to be available from Greenway Products.
The Varney Cab could be used for the base with a Mellor Cab  Wrapper which provides the arch windows and fits over the Varney Cab.
Another cab option is to use a computer printed Southern Cab available from Shapeways products.
The tender on #1094 is very close to the Jersey Central 24’ Freight Tender made by Lee Town.  This thing weighs a lot though.

This was to be my approach to building a Sou F-14.  Have all the parts but have yet to get it built.
If you want to discuss any of this, contact me off-line so we don’t infringe on the “off-subject” nature of modeling.
Cheers
Bill Harley


On Apr 22, 2020, at 3:51 PM, Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote:

There has been a thread running on the S scale .IO group re: ten wheelers of all flavors.  I have several pix of Southern's 4-6-0s, including the "famous" low-numbered 903 that plied Alabama rails longer than any others.  From a modeler's perspective, Varney (later, Bowser) produced the Old Lady 2-8-0 and Casey Jones 4-6-0 in the late 50s/early 60s using the same boiler.  Some claim the boiler and other features are based on the Southern Pacific T-28 ten wheeler. which does have similarities (pilot, boiler and cylinders but not cab).  I've also heard that the boiler, cab and mechanism were "OK" if modeling a Southern 4-6-0.  The recent Bachmann 4-6-0 is unrelated to the old die cast models.

While there is no "definitive" answer to the SP claim, many historians agree that Gordon Varney wanted to appeal to a larger market than SP modelers so picked features from various engines, including SP.  He went with a USRA-style tender, likely to commonize tooling with other models.

Has anyone delved into making a credible Southern 900- or 1000-series ten wheeler from a Varney, Bowser or Bachmann model?  Personally, I like the 1100-series better because of their relative "bulk" and piston valve cylinders but they'd require a different starting point than the smaller engines.  No matter which one is picked, lack of Southern valve gear needs to be addressed.

--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com


locked Ten wheeler question

Jim King
 

There has been a thread running on the S scale .IO group re: ten wheelers of all flavors.  I have several pix of Southern's 4-6-0s, including the "famous" low-numbered 903 that plied Alabama rails longer than any others.  From a modeler's perspective, Varney (later, Bowser) produced the Old Lady 2-8-0 and Casey Jones 4-6-0 in the late 50s/early 60s using the same boiler.  Some claim the boiler and other features are based on the Southern Pacific T-28 ten wheeler. which does have similarities (pilot, boiler and cylinders but not cab).  I've also heard that the boiler, cab and mechanism were "OK" if modeling a Southern 4-6-0.  The recent Bachmann 4-6-0 is unrelated to the old die cast models.

While there is no "definitive" answer to the SP claim, many historians agree that Gordon Varney wanted to appeal to a larger market than SP modelers so picked features from various engines, including SP.  He went with a USRA-style tender, likely to commonize tooling with other models.

Has anyone delved into making a credible Southern 900- or 1000-series ten wheeler from a Varney, Bowser or Bachmann model?  Personally, I like the 1100-series better because of their relative "bulk" and piston valve cylinders but they'd require a different starting point than the smaller engines.  No matter which one is picked, lack of Southern valve gear needs to be addressed.

--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com


locked Re: Southern K&IT Bridge

George Eichelberger
 

Stuart:

Thanks! One of my NS projects was to put a fiber optic cable across the bridge so I was all over the K&IT ROW in ’12 and ’13. I could not have missed a track passing underneath. Of course, we worked with local NS folks that would have known about the loop but the subject never came up.

For the first time in many years, I drove over the bridge on the old NB highway lane (following an NS special agent). I don’t know when the bridge was closed to auto traffic but I remember crossing it (cost $.15?) years ago. The locals wanted to open a bike path/walking trail across the bridge but I don’t expect that happened?

Ike


On Apr 15, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Stuart Thayer via groups.io <StuThayer@...> wrote:

Ike,

For those of us that were born and raised in Louisville, KY or just across the Ohio River in Indiana the "Southern Loop" is well known.  Your map shows the Southern Loop (yellow line) splitting off the B&O about a 1/2 a block past the point where the B&O splits off the K&IT trackage coming off the K&IT bridge over the Ohio River.  The Southern track which was the original mainline then loops around to cross under the K&IT tracks.  This arrangement was replaced when the Southern redid their alignment in the 1970's and split off the K&IT right at the end of the bridge bypassing the Loop and the street running.

The attached photo shows train #120 crossing under itself as it heads WB off the K&IT bridge.  The new alignment wiped out this trackage with the fill for the new alignment running through this scene right about where the photographer is standing.  If you visit New Albany today you can still find the loop right-of-way in places if you know where to look and the overpass in the photo is still there.  Although it is obscured by trees now.

Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 4/14/2020 10:43:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, geichelberger@... writes:

Michael:

Southern Railway contracts 183 (New Albany Belt & Terminal 11-11-1890), contract 184 (New Albany Belt 7-24-1895), contract 442 (Joint Use of Tracks at New Albany, IN 5-28-1908), contract 652 (Joint Use of Passenger Station at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917), contract 653 (Pitts-Cincy & StL tracks at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917) and contract 931 (Southern-PRR crossing at New Albany, IN) all cover agreements at the north end of the K&IT bridge but I do not see a reference, or drawing of a “loop track” except on the street railway. The attached drawing from contract 442 shows the K&IT tracks off the bridge but only a far toward the river as Main St. I’ve been across the bridge and to where the tracks split but do not remember a track under the bridge.

Maybe someone can look at the drawing and help?

Ike

<442 New Albany, IN.jpeg>

On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:

Looking for some help finding photos and or information on the Southern railway by-pass loop off of the north end of the K&IT bridge in New Albany, Indiana. Southern had trackage rights on the B&O to loop around and under the north end of the bridge then westward on the east and west district line.





Thanks, Michael Shirey





<SOU 3137_Tr 120_New Albany  IN_5-73_coll SThayer.jpg><442 New Albany, IN.jpeg>


locked Re: Southern K&IT Bridge

Stuart Thayer
 

Michael,

Glad to help.  The Southern in and around Louisville, KY is near and dear to my heart.

Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 4/15/2020 5:51:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, pcrrhs6561@... writes:

 Stuart Thayer thanks you for your very in-depth information on this topic. You my friend have hit the jackpot and helps me understand this more.  If anyone is interested I have a Facebook group for this topic and my layout build..https://www.facebook.com/groups/2278439425795609/





Thanks, Michael Shirey






On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 5:37 PM Stuart Thayer via groups.io <StuThayer=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ike,

For those of us that were born and raised in Louisville, KY or just across the Ohio River in Indiana the "Southern Loop" is well known.  Your map shows the Southern Loop (yellow line) splitting off the B&O about a 1/2 a block past the point where the B&O splits off the K&IT trackage coming off the K&IT bridge over the Ohio River.  The Southern track which was the original mainline then loops around to cross under the K&IT tracks.  This arrangement was replaced when the Southern redid their alignment in the 1970's and split off the K&IT right at the end of the bridge bypassing the Loop and the street running.

The attached photo shows train #120 crossing under itself as it heads WB off the K&IT bridge.  The new alignment wiped out this trackage with the fill for the new alignment running through this scene right about where the photographer is standing.  If you visit New Albany today you can still find the loop right-of-way in places if you know where to look and the overpass in the photo is still there.  Although it is obscured by trees now.

Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 4/14/2020 10:43:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, geichelberger@... writes:

Michael:

Southern Railway contracts 183 (New Albany Belt & Terminal 11-11-1890), contract 184 (New Albany Belt 7-24-1895), contract 442 (Joint Use of Tracks at New Albany, IN 5-28-1908), contract 652 (Joint Use of Passenger Station at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917), contract 653 (Pitts-Cincy & StL tracks at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917) and contract 931 (Southern-PRR crossing at New Albany, IN) all cover agreements at the north end of the K&IT bridge but I do not see a reference, or drawing of a “loop track” except on the street railway. The attached drawing from contract 442 shows the K&IT tracks off the bridge but only a far toward the river as Main St. I’ve been across the bridge and to where the tracks split but do not remember a track under the bridge.

Maybe someone can look at the drawing and help?

Ike



On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:

Looking for some help finding photos and or information on the Southern railway by-pass loop off of the north end of the K&IT bridge in New Albany, Indiana. Southern had trackage rights on the B&O to loop around and under the north end of the bridge then westward on the east and west district line.





Thanks, Michael Shirey






 



locked Re: Southern K&IT Bridge

Stephen Warner
 

Ike and all,

The K&I Bridge did indeed leave Youngtown with a loop turning right/east and then under the bridge to run west toward Duncan Tunnel and Huntingburg.   In 1969 I patrolled that trackage between Huntingburg and the K&I Bridge on Fairmont M-19 Motor Cars.  As I lived until Feb. '70 in New Albany, I could hear the Monon running behind my apt. house on Bono Rd. north of the bridge morning and night.  The B&OSW also came onto/off of the bridge from the NE, then passing our Youngtown Yard and Floyd St.  As your JF Files showed, we had a separate JF there, and had the (then) Operator count cars to share the maintenance.  When I was there, besides DI Tower at the north end of Youngtown, there was KI Tower on the bridge (N. end?) with the original Operator handling the Interlocking.  I believe that he was K&IT.  I spent a few evenings there - he had a hobby to "collect" the Radio Car Numbers of the slave trains as they went by.   Sometime after I left, SR built a LH turnout somewhere on the N. end of the bridge and a ramp west down to the Main going toward Duncan Tunnel.  The PCC&SL/PRR never crossed the bridge as far as I knew, and was not a petty to the Five Line Agreement; we got to them (now LNA&) via the Panama Track on the Levee, but connected with the Monon north on Vincennes St. .  The Five Line Agreement was my specialty later in JF, and I spent much time there and dealing with the remnants of the Monon/Soo/CP/CSX as we shut down the agreement.  At one time CP/Soo ( ICC-granted TR on Monon that they refused to give up after CSX abandoned their Monon operation) had one train in and out, and we handled the switching, Interchange, and Loco servicing in Youngtown.   Before I retired, I walked the remains of the Loop Track - not much left then, just a short weedy lead to what used to be an industry just to the east with a troublesome turnout on a sharp main line curve.  But the most interesting thing was the roadway for vehicles that ran along beside the K&I Bridge Tracks. It was shut down decades ago, but I recall that it was barricaded off to traffic the last time I saw it. One day in the '90's I was with the Term. Supt. and we got a call to go with the Special Agents to the old K&IT HQ.  It was a beautiful Victorian mansion in a residential area, that someone had called in a trespasser.  It was like an office bldg that everyone had  just gone home expecting to come back the next day.  Strange and haunting.  One of my memories that stay with me.


locked Re: Southern K&IT Bridge

Michael Shirey
 

 Stuart Thayer thanks you for your very in-depth information on this topic. You my friend have hit the jackpot and helps me understand this more.  If anyone is interested I have a Facebook group for this topic and my layout build..https://www.facebook.com/groups/2278439425795609/





Thanks, Michael Shirey 







On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 5:37 PM Stuart Thayer via groups.io <StuThayer=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Ike,

For those of us that were born and raised in Louisville, KY or just across the Ohio River in Indiana the "Southern Loop" is well known.  Your map shows the Southern Loop (yellow line) splitting off the B&O about a 1/2 a block past the point where the B&O splits off the K&IT trackage coming off the K&IT bridge over the Ohio River.  The Southern track which was the original mainline then loops around to cross under the K&IT tracks.  This arrangement was replaced when the Southern redid their alignment in the 1970's and split off the K&IT right at the end of the bridge bypassing the Loop and the street running.

The attached photo shows train #120 crossing under itself as it heads WB off the K&IT bridge.  The new alignment wiped out this trackage with the fill for the new alignment running through this scene right about where the photographer is standing.  If you visit New Albany today you can still find the loop right-of-way in places if you know where to look and the overpass in the photo is still there.  Although it is obscured by trees now.

Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 4/14/2020 10:43:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, geichelberger@... writes:

Michael:

Southern Railway contracts 183 (New Albany Belt & Terminal 11-11-1890), contract 184 (New Albany Belt 7-24-1895), contract 442 (Joint Use of Tracks at New Albany, IN 5-28-1908), contract 652 (Joint Use of Passenger Station at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917), contract 653 (Pitts-Cincy & StL tracks at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917) and contract 931 (Southern-PRR crossing at New Albany, IN) all cover agreements at the north end of the K&IT bridge but I do not see a reference, or drawing of a “loop track” except on the street railway. The attached drawing from contract 442 shows the K&IT tracks off the bridge but only a far toward the river as Main St. I’ve been across the bridge and to where the tracks split but do not remember a track under the bridge.

Maybe someone can look at the drawing and help?

Ike



On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:

Looking for some help finding photos and or information on the Southern railway by-pass loop off of the north end of the K&IT bridge in New Albany, Indiana. Southern had trackage rights on the B&O to loop around and under the north end of the bridge then westward on the east and west district line.





Thanks, Michael Shirey






locked Re: Southern K&IT Bridge

Stuart Thayer
 

Ike,

For those of us that were born and raised in Louisville, KY or just across the Ohio River in Indiana the "Southern Loop" is well known.  Your map shows the Southern Loop (yellow line) splitting off the B&O about a 1/2 a block past the point where the B&O splits off the K&IT trackage coming off the K&IT bridge over the Ohio River.  The Southern track which was the original mainline then loops around to cross under the K&IT tracks.  This arrangement was replaced when the Southern redid their alignment in the 1970's and split off the K&IT right at the end of the bridge bypassing the Loop and the street running.

The attached photo shows train #120 crossing under itself as it heads WB off the K&IT bridge.  The new alignment wiped out this trackage with the fill for the new alignment running through this scene right about where the photographer is standing.  If you visit New Albany today you can still find the loop right-of-way in places if you know where to look and the overpass in the photo is still there.  Although it is obscured by trees now.

Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 4/14/2020 10:43:53 PM Eastern Standard Time, geichelberger@... writes:

Michael:

Southern Railway contracts 183 (New Albany Belt & Terminal 11-11-1890), contract 184 (New Albany Belt 7-24-1895), contract 442 (Joint Use of Tracks at New Albany, IN 5-28-1908), contract 652 (Joint Use of Passenger Station at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917), contract 653 (Pitts-Cincy & StL tracks at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917) and contract 931 (Southern-PRR crossing at New Albany, IN) all cover agreements at the north end of the K&IT bridge but I do not see a reference, or drawing of a “loop track” except on the street railway. The attached drawing from contract 442 shows the K&IT tracks off the bridge but only a far toward the river as Main St. I’ve been across the bridge and to where the tracks split but do not remember a track under the bridge.

Maybe someone can look at the drawing and help?

Ike



On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:

Looking for some help finding photos and or information on the Southern railway by-pass loop off of the north end of the K&IT bridge in New Albany, Indiana. Southern had trackage rights on the B&O to loop around and under the north end of the bridge then westward on the east and west district line.





Thanks, Michael Shirey






locked Re: Southern K&IT Bridge

George Eichelberger
 

Michael:

Southern Railway contracts 183 (New Albany Belt & Terminal 11-11-1890), contract 184 (New Albany Belt 7-24-1895), contract 442 (Joint Use of Tracks at New Albany, IN 5-28-1908), contract 652 (Joint Use of Passenger Station at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917), contract 653 (Pitts-Cincy & StL tracks at New Albany, IN 1-2-1917) and contract 931 (Southern-PRR crossing at New Albany, IN) all cover agreements at the north end of the K&IT bridge but I do not see a reference, or drawing of a “loop track” except on the street railway. The attached drawing from contract 442 shows the K&IT tracks off the bridge but only a far toward the river as Main St. I’ve been across the bridge and to where the tracks split but do not remember a track under the bridge.

Maybe someone can look at the drawing and help?

Ike



On Apr 14, 2020, at 7:50 PM, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:

Looking for some help finding photos and or information on the Southern railway by-pass loop off of the north end of the K&IT bridge in New Albany, Indiana. Southern had trackage rights on the B&O to loop around and under the north end of the bridge then westward on the east and west district line.





Thanks, Michael Shirey 







locked Southern K&IT Bridge

Michael Shirey
 

Looking for some help finding photos and or information on the Southern railway by-pass loop off of the north end of the K&IT bridge in New Albany, Indiana. Southern had trackage rights on the B&O to loop around and under the north end of the bridge then westward on the east and west district line.





Thanks, Michael Shirey 






locked Re: OC 5 at the unloading site

George Eichelberger
 

Tim Andrews tells me a tiny amount of water blew under the door at the archives, otherwise TVRM is okay. The CSX Tyner branch has a washout.

Unfortunately George Walker’s house and E. Brainerd neighborhood was hit by a tornado leaving damage to both.

Ike

PS I posted a request for folks to make donations to TVRM the other day. They are shut down but still have bills to pay.
This may be the time to say, if you are interested in the history of the Southern Railway or helping the largest operating rail museum in the SE, NOW is the time to stop leaving the work to others and go to the TVRM web site and make a donation!



On Apr 13, 2020, at 11:23 AM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

Wonder if the storms last night damaged anything at TVRM?
Rodney Shu


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 9:17 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] OC 5 at the unloading site
 
Southern Railway official car No 5 (disguised as NS No 8) arrived at Chattanooga this afternoon. It will be set on trucks tomorrow and moved to the TVRM Soule Shops to be restored as Southern Railway OC No 5. It was converted by the Southern from Pullman “Point Richmond” in 1956.

If anyone wants to help with putting it into service, please contact me or Tim Andrews at TVRM.

Ike


<20200114_174652.jpeg>




locked Re: OC 5 at the unloading site

Bill Schafer
 

Latest report I heard (10:00 am) was that the Museum seems to have escaped any damage to speak of. The unknown was how much damage was sustained on the Hiwassee. I think it will get inspected later today, and it would be a miracle if no trees blew down across the track.

—Bill

On Apr 13, 2020, at 11:23 AM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

Wonder if the storms last night damaged anything at TVRM?
Rodney Shu


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 9:17 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] OC 5 at the unloading site
 
Southern Railway official car No 5 (disguised as NS No 8) arrived at Chattanooga this afternoon. It will be set on trucks tomorrow and moved to the TVRM Soule Shops to be restored as Southern Railway OC No 5. It was converted by the Southern from Pullman “Point Richmond” in 1956.

If anyone wants to help with putting it into service, please contact me or Tim Andrews at TVRM.

Ike


<20200114_174652.jpeg>




locked Re: OC 5 at the unloading site

Rodney Shu
 

Wonder if the storms last night damaged anything at TVRM?
Rodney Shu


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2020 9:17 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] OC 5 at the unloading site
 
Southern Railway official car No 5 (disguised as NS No 8) arrived at Chattanooga this afternoon. It will be set on trucks tomorrow and moved to the TVRM Soule Shops to be restored as Southern Railway OC No 5. It was converted by the Southern from Pullman “Point Richmond” in 1956.

If anyone wants to help with putting it into service, please contact me or Tim Andrews at TVRM.

Ike






locked Re: E8 Questions

Jason Greene
 

1. The first order (2923-2929) did not have rooftop air tanks. The second group (6906-6915) built with the air tanks. 
2. Second group delivered in 1953, first group rebuilt when painted black in mid-50s
3. Both water for the steam generators. 
4. E8s became the primary passenger power and E6-7s were traded in. No need to convert them as the ones rostered later we’re not primary power for long distance trains. The were used to add HP. E8s with two steam generators per unit could keep up with needed steam. 

Jason Greene 

On Apr 12, 2020, at 6:08 PM, Curtis Brookshire via groups.io <curtis.brookshire@...> wrote:

I have a few questions regarding SR E8s. NCTM is closed right now and I do not have the Withers Diesel book to reference, so I must inquire from the diesel historians here.
1. Were the E8s delivered without the rooftop air tanks and extra water tanks flanking the fuel tank? I'm under the impression they were.
2. If so, when were they converted? I saw plans for ceiling mounted water tanks used in F3s dated 1952 so I guess the E8s might have been around then.
3. There were two oval tanks flanking the fuel tank, one fore and the other aft. Were they both for water or was one for steam boiler fuel?
4. Why did they configure the E8s and some F units with rooftop air tanks and extra water tanks and not the E7s or E6s (or did some also get this conversion)? Did the E8 steam boilers use more fuel/water?
Stay well everyone,
Curtis Brookshire
Pine Level, NC


locked E8 Questions

Curtis Brookshire
 

I have a few questions regarding SR E8s. NCTM is closed right now and I do not have the Withers Diesel book to reference, so I must inquire from the diesel historians here.
1. Were the E8s delivered without the rooftop air tanks and extra water tanks flanking the fuel tank? I'm under the impression they were.
2. If so, when were they converted? I saw plans for ceiling mounted water tanks used in F3s dated 1952 so I guess the E8s might have been around then.
3. There were two oval tanks flanking the fuel tank, one fore and the other aft. Were they both for water or was one for steam boiler fuel?
4. Why did they configure the E8s and some F units with rooftop air tanks and extra water tanks and not the E7s or E6s (or did some also get this conversion)? Did the E8 steam boilers use more fuel/water?
Stay well everyone,
Curtis Brookshire
Pine Level, NC


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

David Payne
 


Yes, that's the way it was explained to me.
DPayne


In a message dated 4/12/2020 11:27:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, deltabourque@... writes:

Are you saying the 100T 4-bays were called "little reds" while the earlier 100T 6-bays were "big reds?"


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Daniel Bourque
 

David, 

Are you saying the 100T 4-bays were called "little reds" while the earlier 100T 6-bays were "big reds?" 

I know in the Appalachia, VA area the 50T hoppers were called "blacks" in the late '60s/70s (you see "blacks" and "reds" on track charts denoting track capacities--a lot of the "blacks" were ex-Interstate RR cars) while 50 and 70T cars in shuttle service to the big transloader were collectively called "yellow balls" (they had a big yellow dot painted on them)--do you know if the Southern had a nickname for the 70T, 3-bay hoppers?

Dan


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of David Payne via groups.io <davidcofga@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2020 9:20 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Mystery Hopper Class
 

I've heard these referred to as "Little Reds" inside 99 Spring Street in the late sixties/seventies.  Both types would be routed to Plant Yates in west central Georgia hauling "straggler" coal (compared to unit train coal).
David Payne


In a message dated 4/12/2020 9:31:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, deltabourque@... writes:

Later cars, built by other manufacturers


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

David Payne
 


I've heard these referred to as "Little Reds" inside 99 Spring Street in the late sixties/seventies.  Both types would be routed to Plant Yates in west central Georgia hauling "straggler" coal (compared to unit train coal).
David Payne


In a message dated 4/12/2020 9:31:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, deltabourque@... writes:

Later cars, built by other manufacturers


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Daniel Bourque
 

Justin, Evan,

The earlier P-S cars were definitely considered Big Reds—they were the original Big Reds as they dwarfed the 70T cars. The number of ribs also corresponds with the number of bays. The earliest Big Reds, built by P-S in 1964, were 6-bay, 4003 cu ft, 20-panel cars and numbered 75000-76599. Later cars, built by other manufacturers including Greenville Steel Car, were 4-bay, 3600 cu ft, 18-panel cars; numbers included 76600-77199, 77200-77799, 77800-78399, 78400-78799, 351062-351861, 390000-390499. There may be more series of the latter car.

Dan Bourque

On Apr 12, 2020, at 5:59 AM, Justin May <westpointroute@...> wrote:

Evan,
The "Big Reds" look like they were constructed by Thrall in 1972,
though a Pullman-Standard car (20 panels compared to 18 panels on the
Thrall car) were constructed as early as 1964 and 1966. Forgive my
ignorance on these groups, and I'm not sure if the Pullman Standard
cars would be included in the term.

SOU 75000-75799, 5/1964, Pullman Standard
SOU 75800-76599, 9/1966, Pullman Standard

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou75047&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou76070&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou75309&o=sou

Justin May

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:19 PM Evan Miller via groups.io
<nsrailfan82@...> wrote:

Thanks for the builders photos Justin. Didn’t know they had red trucks as well. Southern sure loved to have lettering all over their coal cars! I’ve never seen another railroad with as much data and warnings on theirs as Southern had.

When were the first Big Reds delivered by the way?

-Evan Miller

On Apr 10, 2020, at 7:49 PM, Justin May <westpointroute@...> wrote:

Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.
Pullman Standard builders photos -

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou78802&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou79263&o=sou

Justin May





locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Justin May
 

Evan,
The "Big Reds" look like they were constructed by Thrall in 1972,
though a Pullman-Standard car (20 panels compared to 18 panels on the
Thrall car) were constructed as early as 1964 and 1966. Forgive my
ignorance on these groups, and I'm not sure if the Pullman Standard
cars would be included in the term.

SOU 75000-75799, 5/1964, Pullman Standard
SOU 75800-76599, 9/1966, Pullman Standard

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou75047&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou76070&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou75309&o=sou

Justin May

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:19 PM Evan Miller via groups.io
<nsrailfan82@...> wrote:

Thanks for the builders photos Justin. Didn’t know they had red trucks as well. Southern sure loved to have lettering all over their coal cars! I’ve never seen another railroad with as much data and warnings on theirs as Southern had.

When were the first Big Reds delivered by the way?

-Evan Miller

On Apr 10, 2020, at 7:49 PM, Justin May <westpointroute@...> wrote:


Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.
Pullman Standard builders photos -

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou78802&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou79263&o=sou

Justin May



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