Date   

locked Re: Southern Passenger Train Discontinuances - 1966

John Stewart
 

HI folks

 

Interesting story and documentation, albeit sad if you love passenger trains

 

John

 

John R Stewart

www.bhamrails.info

205-901-3790

 

image004

 


locked Re: Southern Passenger Train Discontinuances - 1966

Robert Hanson
 

Marv,

If you've read Fred Frailey's book, Twilight of the Great Trains, you know that some of the trains Brosnan was in such a sweat to get rid of were actually profitable.  Some maybe only marginally so, but profitable nonetheless.

Seems that Brosnan read a piece in the Wall Street Journal (I think) about the Penn Central's major passenger woes and it gave him a fixation on getting rid of Southern's passenger trains, even though Southern virtually had no passenger problem compared to that of the PC.

And he gave Claytor his marching orders - "Get rid of the trains!"

And the rest is history.

Read it, if you haven't already.  It is an eye-opening read.

Bob Hanson


-----Original Message-----
From: Marv Clemons <mclemonsjr@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Jun 25, 2020 9:41 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Passenger Train Discontinuances - 1966

A facinating, behind-the-scenes look at Graham Claytor's rationale and tactics for the wholesale removal of remnant passenger trains in the mid-60s.  Those were indeed miserable times for both train crews and the handful of passengers who still rode the trains, and spelled the end for Southern's major stations in places like Birmingham, Atlanta and Knoxville.

Marv Clemons


locked Re: Southern Passenger Train Discontinuances - 1966

Marv Clemons
 

A facinating, behind-the-scenes look at Graham Claytor's rationale and tactics for the wholesale removal of remnant passenger trains in the mid-60s.  Those were indeed miserable times for both train crews and the handful of passengers who still rode the trains, and spelled the end for Southern's major stations in places like Birmingham, Atlanta and Knoxville.

Marv Clemons


locked Re: Southern Passenger Train Discontinuances - 1966

C J Wyatt
 

I don't have the exact date, but sometime around the time of this memo, Southern helped to finish off No. 35 from Chattanooga to Memphis, by scheduling No. 17 to arrive Chattanooga ten minutes after no. 35 departed.

Jack Wyatt

On Wednesday, June 24, 2020, 04:58:00 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


During the mid 1960s, the Southern made a concerted effort to eliminate as many passenger trains as possible.

While many people would assume it was mostly the work of D.W. Brosnan, his “man behind the scene” was (maybe surprisingly to some) VP Graham Claytor. Here is a two-page “personal” memo to “DWB” from “WGC”.

As with many subjects, the SRHA archives include internal correspondence, public comments and PUC correspomdemce and ruling on many passenger trains.

We look forward to organizing a three-day archives work session in August. If everyone can stay safe and well and check the SRHA web site, we look forward to getting back to work.

Ike



locked Southern Passenger Train Discontinuances - 1966

George Eichelberger
 

During the mid 1960s, the Southern made a concerted effort to eliminate as many passenger trains as possible.

While many people would assume it was mostly the work of D.W. Brosnan, his “man behind the scene” was (maybe surprisingly to some) VP Graham Claytor. Here is a two-page “personal” memo to “DWB” from “WGC”.

As with many subjects, the SRHA archives include internal correspondence, public comments and PUC correspomdemce and ruling on many passenger trains.

We look forward to organizing a three-day archives work session in August. If everyone can stay safe and well and check the SRHA web site, we look forward to getting back to work.

Ike



locked Re: Iron Ore trains from.... and 1985 titanium ore train - 04.27.85

George Eichelberger
 

Mark:

We allow attachments on both the “SouthernRailway” and “ModelingThe Southern” groups. The time will probably come when we get to the limit of allowed storage and some items will have to be removed. Until then…thanks for the photo!

Ike
PS I convert anything I post to the jpeg format to reduce the image size. In many cases, I can send a higher resolution tiff image if needed.



On Jun 17, 2020, at 7:59 PM, Mark Demaline via groups.io <conductor7@...> wrote:

Not sure if the io.groups site will strip attachments or not, but attached is one scan of the
train, at Mitchell VA. on April 27,1985.

I saw & photographed him first at the Route 29 o/p at Culpepper, and chased him south to 
Red Hill VA. My notes & slides show he ran as a #141. He was making some serious noise
coming up out of those dips, and thru the S-curves @ Hickory Grove. 

~ Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart <jstew@...>


Hi folks
 
Neat story.  Got a picture?
 
John
 
John R Stewart
205-901-3790
 

 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Demaline via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 9:12 AM
And in late April, 1985, on a cloudy day, I chased & photographed Southern titanium ore train south of Charlottesville, with all D&H hoppers, which I'm 99% certain originated at the
mine at Tahawus NY. The mine had been closed, but they were finishing removing the stockpiled ore. I assumed it was going to Gadsden or Birmingham, possibly for processing for 
the Carpenter Tech facility in Athens, which produces specialty titanium parts for the aircraft, aerospace, and other industrial uses.  I never did find out the actual destination.  But it
was a great train to obtain some photos of.  Only having seen one of these trains on the Southern this one time, I was never sure if it was a regular, or only a one-time, move.
 
Corrections, more info, and clarifications always welcome,   Mark D
 
 

<SOU.#141.D&H ore train.3300-3122-3141.Mitchell VA.04.27.85c.Mark Demaline photo.copyrt 2020..jpg>


locked Re: Iron Ore trains from.... and 1985 titanium ore train - 04.27.85

Mark Demaline
 

Not sure if the io.groups site will strip attachments or not, but attached is one scan of the
train, at Mitchell VA. on April 27,1985.

I saw & photographed him first at the Route 29 o/p at Culpepper, and chased him south to
Red Hill VA. My notes & slides show he ran as a #141. He was making some serious noise
coming up out of those dips, and thru the S-curves @ Hickory Grove.

~ Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stewart <jstew@...>


Hi folks
 
Neat story.  Got a picture?
 
John
 
John R Stewart
205-901-3790
 

 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Demaline via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 9:12 AM
And in late April, 1985, on a cloudy day, I chased & photographed Southern titanium ore train south of Charlottesville, with all D&H hoppers, which I'm 99% certain originated at the
mine at Tahawus NY. The mine had been closed, but they were finishing removing the stockpiled ore. I assumed it was going to Gadsden or Birmingham, possibly for processing for
the Carpenter Tech facility in Athens, which produces specialty titanium parts for the aircraft, aerospace, and other industrial uses.  I never did find out the actual destination.  But it
was a great train to obtain some photos of.  Only having seen one of these trains on the Southern this one time, I was never sure if it was a regular, or only a one-time, move.
 
Corrections, more info, and clarifications always welcome,   Mark D
 
 


locked Re: Iron Ore trains from Port of Mobile to Tn Coal & Iron (TCI) Birmingham, AL

John Hedrick
 

John Stewart:

It has been a long time. For instance I said the ore moved on 154. Actually, by that time the Mobile trains were renumbered 183-184. Yes, 184 was filled out to the tonnage limit with ore. I don't believe it all came back to us from loading at one time. Ore was accumulated in the yard and moved on 184 as tonnage permitted. The move in Big Reds probably coincided with the wrecked Red Rollers.

John O. Hedrick


locked Re: Iron Ore trains from.... and 1985 titanium ore train(s)

John Stewart
 

Hi folks

 

Neat story.  Got a picture?

 

John

 

John R Stewart

www.bhamrails.info

205-901-3790

 

image004

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark Demaline via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 9:12 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Iron Ore trains from.... and 1985 titanium ore train(s)

 

And in late April, 1985, on a cloudy day, I chased & photographed Southern titanium ore train south of Charlottesville, with all D&H hoppers, which I'm 99% certain originated at the

mine at Tahawus NY. The mine had been closed, but they were finishing removing the stockpiled ore. I assumed it was going to Gadsden or Birmingham, possibly for processing for

the Carpenter Tech facility in Athens, which produces specialty titanium parts for the aircraft, aerospace, and other industrial uses.  I never did find out the actual destination.  But it

was a great train to obtain some photos of.  Only having seen one of these trains on the Southern this one time, I was never sure if it was a regular, or only a one-time, move.

 

Corrections, more info, and clarifications always welcome,   Mark D

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Hedrick <johedrick6@...>

Mobile ore movements. I was Trainmaster at Mobile 1970-71. Best I can recall, we moved both red ore and some pellet ore at that time. At one point, some pellet  ore moved in Big Red coal hoppers weighing out long before cubing out. Ore moved on train 154. 154 left Mobile with the two engines that came in on local 69 then swapped power with 153 (4 GPs) at their meeting point. Two GPs handled 5,000 tons so 154 was filled out with ore to the tonnage limit. It would take a number days to move ore.  When at maximum tonnage, the yard engine, normally a GP-30, would shove 154 over the hill just north of the yard. All power was GP.

Reportedly, a  predecessor, who had connections in the control center, arranged to run an extra without clearing it with the superintendent. He got in serious trouble.


locked Re: Iron Ore trains from.... and 1985 titanium ore train(s)

Mark Demaline
 

And in late April, 1985, on a cloudy day, I chased & photographed Southern titanium ore train south of Charlottesville, with all D&H hoppers, which I'm 99% certain originated at the
mine at Tahawus NY. The mine had been closed, but they were finishing removing the stockpiled ore. I assumed it was going to Gadsden or Birmingham, possibly for processing for
the Carpenter Tech facility in Athens, which produces specialty titanium parts for the aircraft, aerospace, and other industrial uses.  I never did find out the actual destination.  But it
was a great train to obtain some photos of.  Only having seen one of these trains on the Southern this one time, I was never sure if it was a regular, or only a one-time, move.

Corrections, more info, and clarifications always welcome,   Mark D


-----Original Message-----
From: John Hedrick <johedrick6@...>


Mobile ore movements. I was Trainmaster at Mobile 1970-71. Best I can recall, we moved both red ore and some pellet ore at that time. At one point, some pellet  ore moved in Big Red coal hoppers weighing out long before cubing out. Ore moved on train 154. 154 left Mobile with the two engines that came in on local 69 then swapped power with 153 (4 GPs) at their meeting point. Two GPs handled 5,000 tons so 154 was filled out with ore to the tonnage limit. It would take a number days to move ore.  When at maximum tonnage, the yard engine, normally a GP-30, would shove 154 over the hill just north of the yard. All power was GP.

Reportedly, a  predecessor, who had connections in the control center, arranged to run an extra without clearing it with the superintendent. He got in serious trouble.
_._,_._,_


locked NYC Heavyweight Sleepers on the Ponce DeLeon?

George Eichelberger
 

We received an interesting question from John Horvath (NYCHS) about a group of Pullman Plan 3979A (8-1-2) sleepers assigned to the Ponce DeLeon. While we continue to look through the photos in the SRHA archives, it may be useful to ask the Southern Railway.io group… Here’s more detail from John.

Within the large (379 cars) fleet of HW sleepers that the NYCS acquired in the 1948 Pullman divestiture were eight Plan 3979A (8-1-2) cars with CENT-prefix car names that were painted in the “Overland” train two-tone gray scheme. These cars had been in NY-Chicago-San Francisco service from 1946 until displaced by LW cars at the end of 1949. They retained this painting and lettering scheme until the NYCS had Pullman repaint them between 1952 and 1954 (most in 1953).

Pullman Culver assignment letters curated by Dave Staplin some years ago indicate that at least in Summer 1951 four of these NYC-owned cars painted in the “Overland” scheme operated between Cleveland and Jacksonville on the “Ponce de Leon”. Is there any chance that you have or know of a photo or photos of these NYCS-owned cars painted in the “Overland” scheme while in this or any other service? The paint scheme would be hard to miss as it was the original pre-WW2 version of two-tone gray, with the light gray used for most of the carbody and only the pier panel painted dark gray. The “Overland” train name was at the center of the letterboard in sans-serif lettering.

In addition to a photo, might there be a consist of the Ponce from Jax Term for these years that show the NYC cars?

Ike

PS There is a large amount of data in the archives on the Ponce DeLeon over the years. If anyone has any information on the Ponce, the Royal Palm, Royal Palm DeLuxe or New Royal Palm please let us know. In addition to an article, those trains would make an excellent presentation at the Cocoa Beach RPM next year. There are always NYC, Southern and FEC folks attending.

We have the full list of Pullmans Southern acquired in the divestiture if that is of interest...


locked Re: Iron Ore trains from Port of Mobile to Tn Coal & Iron (TCI) Birmingham, AL

John Stewart
 

Hi John Hedrick

 

Thanks very much for this information – interesting.

 

So, it sounds like these car loads were used to “fill out train tonnage”.  That is, if Train 156 had room for more tonnage, and  you had cars waiting, you would add them to that day’s train till it was up to load rating – is that right?

 

And

 

You say it “took several days to move ore”. 

 

Does that mean that you had the liberty of waiting for “tonnage available” on train 156 to get the ore to Birmingham?  In other words, you didn’t have to get the ore out of town as soon as all cars were loaded, is that right?

 

And

 

Do you recall how frequently ore loads were available, in other words, how often did the ore ships from Venezuela come in, more or less?

 

Thanks very much

 

John

 

John R Stewart

www.bhamrails.info

205-901-3790

 

image004

 


locked Re: Iron Ore trains from Port of Mobile to Tn Coal & Iron (TCI) Birmingham, AL

John Hedrick
 

Mobile ore movements. I was Trainmaster at Mobile 1970-71. Best I can recall, we moved both red ore and some pellet ore at that time. At one point, some pellet  ore moved in Big Red coal hoppers weighing out long before cubing out. Ore moved on train 154. 154 left Mobile with the two engines that came in on local 69 then swapped power with 153 (4 GPs) at their meeting point. Two GPs handled 5,000 tons so 154 was filled out with ore to the tonnage limit. It would take a number days to move ore.  When at maximum tonnage, the yard engine, normally a GP-30, would shove 154 over the hill just north of the yard. All power was GP.

Reportedly, a  predecessor, who had connections in the control center, arranged to run an extra without clearing it with the superintendent. He got in serious trouble.


locked Re: Iron Ore trains from Port of Mobile to Tn Coal & Iron (TCI) Birmingham, AL

John Stewart
 

Hi All,

 

Thanks again Ike and all for the very good information.

 

I am coming to believe that these cars likely were in service “demand” – i.e., were needed for their original use until at least 1975, and likely the early ‘80’s.

 

This is based on the idea that US Steel’s Venezuelan iron ore was available and in demand through that time period, even after nationalization of the US Steel and Bethlehem properties in 1975, as the government gave contracts to both companies extending at least until 1981.

 

Certainly Birmingham’s red ore sources were gone:  US Steel/TCI closed red ore mines in June, 1962, and even Woodward closed their deep mine in 1972.

 

I’m learning about Taconite and how it came to Birmingham.   It was being brought in by barge in the early 2000’s and later.  At some point, it seems that Taconite pellets would have overcome the Venezuelan ore, based on transportation costs.

 

More ideas and info are always welcome, thanks again for the help

 

John

 

John R Stewart

www.bhamrails.info

205-901-3790

 

image004

 


locked Re: Iron Ore trains from Port of Mobile to Tn Coal & Iron (TCI) Birmingham, AL

mike turner
 

Note that the cars on either side are 2bay 100ton aggregate hoppers.


On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 6:06 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
John:

The attached SR memo is in no way conclusive that the Southern’s ore cars were still in that service in 1970. But….spending $52,000 to repair 20 sixteen year old 1,629 cu ft hopper cars because the “cars are needed” may be because they were still used in iron ore service? 

Although they certainly could have been used in limestone or aggregate service, the two-bay hoppers being purchased in 1970 for those shipments, with 2,100 cu ft capy, were more efficient. The cars’ small size is apparent in the attached photo of Sou 100214 in ballast service taken at Danville, KY by Glen Bole* 9-19-88.

Ike

*We thank Glen Bole for giving his extensive and well organized slide collection to SRHA several years ago.







On Jun 15, 2020, at 12:28 PM, John Stewart <jstew@...> wrote:

Hi folks
 
THANKS! I am still getting used to this group as it is a little different than the JMRI group.io that I belong to.  I didn’t post attachments, but apparently attachments here are OK.  These are courtesy of Lee Singletary (L&N), Jason Parham (GM&O), and the U of Al online map archive.
 
I appreciate the information and Ike, thanks for the image of the Southern car.
 
“Red Rollers” makes sense – all the cars had roller bearings, L&N, GM&O and SOU
 
I expect to get some pics of some of these cars on the TCI/USS properties at Birmingham.  If so, I will share them here.
 
Now the question is :
 
When did this operation end?
 
Mike Burns included info on L&N hauling red ore from Mobile to Bhm for Republic’s Gadsden Steel Mill.  Republic, to my knowledge, was buying Venezuelan ore on the SA “market”, rather than having their own developed mines and transportation as USS did and as did Bethlehem.  The pricing structure was a bit exotic, but that is another story.
 
I stand corrected about Morristown NJ!  Thanks for the info, I was going from memory without checking my notes, and it was indeed Morrisville, PA for the USS Fairless Hills Works.  Apparently there were a lot of navigation issues regarding draft of the 60,000 T ore carriers, at every port of call.  In addition, at 800 ft nominal length, it was hard to navigate turns and some structures.  Some of this ore was hauled by Liberty ships and C-4 ships from WWII and purchased on the post war salvage/surplus market.
 
Thanks again for the help and picture.  Hope someone can offer when the service ended.
 
John
 
John R Stewart
205-901-3790
 
<image001.jpg>
 
<1953 L & N Ore Car.jpg><1954 L&N Ore Car.jpg><1955 Ore Chief class ship docked at Mobile 02.png><GMO_62037_ICG_082474.jpg>


locked Re: Iron Ore trains from Port of Mobile to Tn Coal & Iron (TCI) Birmingham, AL

George Eichelberger
 

John:

The attached SR memo is in no way conclusive that the Southern’s ore cars were still in that service in 1970. But….spending $52,000 to repair 20 sixteen year old 1,629 cu ft hopper cars because the “cars are needed” may be because they were still used in iron ore service? 

Although they certainly could have been used in limestone or aggregate service, the two-bay hoppers being purchased in 1970 for those shipments, with 2,100 cu ft capy, were more efficient. The cars’ small size is apparent in the attached photo of Sou 100214 in ballast service taken at Danville, KY by Glen Bole* 9-19-88.

Ike

*We thank Glen Bole for giving his extensive and well organized slide collection to SRHA several years ago.







On Jun 15, 2020, at 12:28 PM, John Stewart <jstew@...> wrote:

Hi folks
 
THANKS! I am still getting used to this group as it is a little different than the JMRI group.io that I belong to.  I didn’t post attachments, but apparently attachments here are OK.  These are courtesy of Lee Singletary (L&N), Jason Parham (GM&O), and the U of Al online map archive.
 
I appreciate the information and Ike, thanks for the image of the Southern car.
 
“Red Rollers” makes sense – all the cars had roller bearings, L&N, GM&O and SOU
 
I expect to get some pics of some of these cars on the TCI/USS properties at Birmingham.  If so, I will share them here.
 
Now the question is :
 
When did this operation end?
 
Mike Burns included info on L&N hauling red ore from Mobile to Bhm for Republic’s Gadsden Steel Mill.  Republic, to my knowledge, was buying Venezuelan ore on the SA “market”, rather than having their own developed mines and transportation as USS did and as did Bethlehem.  The pricing structure was a bit exotic, but that is another story.
 
I stand corrected about Morristown NJ!  Thanks for the info, I was going from memory without checking my notes, and it was indeed Morrisville, PA for the USS Fairless Hills Works.  Apparently there were a lot of navigation issues regarding draft of the 60,000 T ore carriers, at every port of call.  In addition, at 800 ft nominal length, it was hard to navigate turns and some structures.  Some of this ore was hauled by Liberty ships and C-4 ships from WWII and purchased on the post war salvage/surplus market.
 
Thanks again for the help and picture.  Hope someone can offer when the service ended.
 
John
 
John R Stewart
205-901-3790
 
<image001.jpg>
 
<1953 L & N Ore Car.jpg><1954 L&N Ore Car.jpg><1955 Ore Chief class ship docked at Mobile 02.png><GMO_62037_ICG_082474.jpg>


locked Re: Iron Ore trains from Port of Mobile to Tn Coal & Iron (TCI) Birmingham, AL

John Stewart
 

HI again folks

 

Regarding the movements, Mike Burns notes that L&N hauls for Republic were “added on to the rear of the trains” from Montgomery to Birmingham, when he ran for L&N.

 

I believe he suggested 30-40 cars on NB train 570 was what he saw in winter of 1986.

 

I tried evaluating the mode split  of Water vs Rail for 3 million tons per year, and the RR’s wouldn’t have had much problem keeping up seems to me, if all three were serving TCI.

 

As you  might imagine, the water transportation was time constrained at 365 river miles and water “speed”.  Apparently a typical tow was 8 barges plus towboat in a 3 x 3 arrangement.  After 1975 this tow could lock through in a single movement.  And much of the Warrior traffic seems to go in smaller tows.  I believe the one way trips were 5 to 6 days transit.

 

The point of this is that it appears the RR’s would not have needed dedicated trains of ore hoppers to keep up with the movement required.

 

At Birmingham (Birmingport) the barged ore would be transloaded to ore jennies (22’) for the trip to Ensley/Fairfield on the Birmingham Southern (nee’ Inland Waterways RR).

 

Interesting if not obscure bit of RR history.

 

John

 

John R Stewart

www.bhamrails.info

205-901-3790

 

image004

 


locked Re: Iron Ore trains from Port of Mobile to Tn Coal & Iron (TCI) Birmingham, AL

John Stewart
 

Hi folks

 

THANKS! I am still getting used to this group as it is a little different than the JMRI group.io that I belong to.  I didn’t post attachments, but apparently attachments here are OK.  These are courtesy of Lee Singletary (L&N), Jason Parham (GM&O), and the U of Al online map archive.

 

I appreciate the information and Ike, thanks for the image of the Southern car.

 

“Red Rollers” makes sense – all the cars had roller bearings, L&N, GM&O and SOU

 

I expect to get some pics of some of these cars on the TCI/USS properties at Birmingham.  If so, I will share them here.

 

Now the question is :

 

When did this operation end?

 

Mike Burns included info on L&N hauling red ore from Mobile to Bhm for Republic’s Gadsden Steel Mill.  Republic, to my knowledge, was buying Venezuelan ore on the SA “market”, rather than having their own developed mines and transportation as USS did and as did Bethlehem.  The pricing structure was a bit exotic, but that is another story.

 

I stand corrected about Morristown NJ!  Thanks for the info, I was going from memory without checking my notes, and it was indeed Morrisville, PA for the USS Fairless Hills Works.  Apparently there were a lot of navigation issues regarding draft of the 60,000 T ore carriers, at every port of call.  In addition, at 800 ft nominal length, it was hard to navigate turns and some structures.  Some of this ore was hauled by Liberty ships and C-4 ships from WWII and purchased on the post war salvage/surplus market.

 

Thanks again for the help and picture.  Hope someone can offer when the service ended.

 

John

 

John R Stewart

www.bhamrails.info

205-901-3790

 

image004

 


locked Re: Iron Ore trains from Port of Mobile to Tn Coal & Iron (TCI) Birmingham, AL

Bill Schafer
 

When I was stationed in Selma, Ala., 1972-1973, I would see these cars come through Selma occasionally. They looked much different from the new aggregate cars then arriving on the property. When I asked about them, I was told they were for ore movements out of Mobile. Southern even had a nickname for them - “red rollers”. I guess because they were red and were on roller bearings. During my time there, I don’t remember any special movements of iron ore that would have required an extra train. I would just see several at a time. 

—Bill Schafer

On Jun 15, 2020, at 10:10, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The Southern “ore cars” were 100T three-bay cars (Southern 100000-100249 built by P-S in 1954 (note the date) under Program F-117 as their Lot No. 8127-3. At only 36’ over strikers, the cars were unique on the SR. A photo of Sou 100002 is attached.

There may (!) be information in the archives on the F-117 cars in the SR Mechanical Dept files SRHA has that explains what their intended use was. The “1954” built date appears to correspond to the shipments from Mobile to Birmingham. 

Unfortunately, although the files at, Coster Shop (responsible for maintaining the Southern’s “open” cars) were promised to SRHA, when several of us went to get them, the Shop Manager would not let us into the building where they were kept. I mentioned I would be glad to call David Goode if he had any questions. He response was he would let us in the building after lunch…and then never returned. I suspect (strongly) that he had promised someone they could take whatever they wanted and had no intention of letting SRHA take the files.

I mention that because it follows a pattern seen before. An individual, or local group, obtains important files…does nothing with them and eventually gets rid of them. I’ve asked people around Knoxville for years if they knew anything of the Coster files. No one seems to know anything about them so it’s possible they were simply bulldozed with the buildings.

If anyone is aware of SR files sitting unused in a library or archives some where, SRHA can receive and preserve almost anything related to the Southern.

Ike

<Sou 100002.jpeg>


locked Re: Iron Ore trains from Port of Mobile to Tn Coal & Iron (TCI) Birmingham, AL

George Eichelberger
 

The Southern “ore cars” were 100T three-bay cars (Southern 100000-100249 built by P-S in 1954 (note the date) under Program F-117 as their Lot No. 8127-3. At only 36’ over strikers, the cars were unique on the SR. A photo of Sou 100002 is attached.

There may (!) be information in the archives on the F-117 cars in the SR Mechanical Dept files SRHA has that explains what their intended use was. The “1954” built date appears to correspond to the shipments from Mobile to Birmingham. 

Unfortunately, although the files at, Coster Shop (responsible for maintaining the Southern’s “open” cars) were promised to SRHA, when several of us went to get them, the Shop Manager would not let us into the building where they were kept. I mentioned I would be glad to call David Goode if he had any questions. He response was he would let us in the building after lunch…and then never returned. I suspect (strongly) that he had promised someone they could take whatever they wanted and had no intention of letting SRHA take the files.

I mention that because it follows a pattern seen before. An individual, or local group, obtains important files…does nothing with them and eventually gets rid of them. I’ve asked people around Knoxville for years if they knew anything of the Coster files. No one seems to know anything about them so it’s possible they were simply bulldozed with the buildings.

If anyone is aware of SR files sitting unused in a library or archives some where, SRHA can receive and preserve almost anything related to the Southern.

Ike

1281 - 1300 of 2367