Date   

locked Re: E6/E7/E8 Lower Headlight Angle

George Eichelberger
 

The first Southern E-6s were described in undated  "EMC Proposition #00737", it referred to "EMC Specification #594-B". That was followed by four supplements dated October 2, November 29 and December 10, 1940 and January 10, 1941.* All of the SR passenger diesel specifications are in the SRHA archives at TVRM. Unfortunately, I'm just outside of Atlanta so I'll have to refer to the headlight description in the contemporary FT spec until I can check at the archives. (Photo attached)

EMD spec #606D (for FTs 6102-03 and B units 6154-55) describes "One headlight, EMD design, 14" diameter with multiple reflectors having seven (7) prefocused bulbs. How the "prefocused bulbs" were set above, below and to the left and right on the engine center line are not described.

The headlight changed with Supplement No.1 (May 19, 1944) to specification (FT-5400) for FTs 4103-06, 4112-17, 4303-05 and 4311-13. That describes "Each "A" unit to be equipped with a Pyle-National 250W, 32V headlight per endor's drawing #20-C-14590 MTP, EMD file reference  #H-2.61, Pyle-National part #14590-EMS, with non glare reflector, less springs, studs, nuts, and washers, as a substitute to EMD standard 7-cluster headlight."

Notice that neither description answers David's question. More research can be done on how headlights were adjusted but given the length of an E unit carbody, we can assume no setting could compensate for undulations in the track or lighting around curves, one of the the reasons for oscillating headlights.


*EMC/EMD diesel orders began with a description (specification) of their standard product. If the purchasing railroad did not want any changes or customized features, the spec, as issued, described what would be delivered. To EMC/EMDs consternation, the Southern almost never accepted EMDs spec as written. (Electro Motive was interested in selling standardized units rather than complicate their production processes.) After negotiations with the purchasing railroad, a "Specification Supplement" would be issued to describe to changes.

Ike


locked E6/E7/E8 Lower Headlight Angle

David Friedlander
 

Hi all,

Quick Question - I've been looking at photos, but can't tell, were the lower headlights (or were they mars lights?) on the E6, E7, and E8 units that had them, supposed to be parallel to the tracks or just slightly raised?

Thanks,
David Friedlander
NY, NY


locked Belated welcome message

George Eichelberger
 

First of all, to everyone that has joined the Southern Railway group.....

Hello and welcome to the new Southern Railway group sponsored by the Southern Railway Historical Association. Membership in the Association is not necessary but we do want to hear what your specific interests are. 
 
We are just now getting the SRHA archives organized after our move to the new archives building at TVRM and intend to use groups.io to try to extend access and use of the archives material beyond Chattanooga.
 
Check our www.srha.net for more information and a soon to be updated photo tour of the new facility in the archives section.
 
Ike
George Eichelberger - SRHA Archives Director
Carl Ardrey - SRHA President and the SRHA Directors and officers


And.....I received an inquiry today about who/what group is behind SouthernRailway.groups.io. It's on the home page but just in case, I'll repeat it here......

Southern Railway Historical and Modeling Information Interchange main@SouthernRailway.groups.io

Group Description

Southern Railway Historical and Modeling Information Interchange

A group to discuss, ask questions and provide historical and modeling information about the Southern Railway System its predecessors and subsidiaries. It will also be used to publish and distribute drawings, notes, photos and correspondence from users and the Southern Railway Historical Association's archives at the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum in Chattanooga, TN.
 


locked SRHA

Carl Ardrey
 

Just a reminder SRHA 2019 calendars are now available with details at www.srha.net.

CEA


locked Re: Southern Railway Freight Car Specifications to Drawing (Card List) (Working Copy 11-10-2018

Dave Queener
 

Ike,

Thank you very much for sending out the F card and P card lists--very helpful stuff.

Warmly,

Dave Q


On 11/10/2018 9:21 AM, George Eichelberger wrote:
Next Friday and Saturday is the November work session at the SRHA archives. Most of our shelving is up and we plan to empty as many packing boxes as possible. One project (of many) is to organize our freight and passenger car specifications, drawing indexes and correspondence files in F (Specification), NCP (New Car Program, ACP (Automobile Car Program, NEP (New Equipment Program) and SCP (Special Car program) order. That task, along with several others I'll describe later this weekend, will make it much easier to locate material and edit the indexes and lists we have.

Anyone that can attend and help will have the opportunity to understand what the different parts of the SRHA collections are and how they relate to each other.

We will begin around 10:00 Friday morning at the archives on Turntable road (just south of the entrance to TVRM off Cromwell Road in Chattanooga), go as late as anyone is interested and then begin again on Saturday morning at about 8:00 until 3:30 or so. (IF anyone wants to work on Sunday, you must let us know at archives@... and we will see if that can be arranged.) Any questions, send us an email as soon as possible.

The attached PDF document is the working copy of the Southern freight car to Card List index we will be using.

Ike

-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
(865) 333-5712  www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com

Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
(865) 209-5654  www.StPaulPres.com  


locked Southern Railway Freight Car Specifications to Drawing (Card List) (Working Copy 11-10-2018

George Eichelberger
 

Next Friday and Saturday is the November work session at the SRHA archives. Most of our shelving is up and we plan to empty as many packing boxes as possible. One project (of many) is to organize our freight and passenger car specifications, drawing indexes and correspondence files in F (Specification), NCP (New Car Program, ACP (Automobile Car Program, NEP (New Equipment Program) and SCP (Special Car program) order. That task, along with several others I'll describe later this weekend, will make it much easier to locate material and edit the indexes and lists we have.

Anyone that can attend and help will have the opportunity to understand what the different parts of the SRHA collections are and how they relate to each other.

We will begin around 10:00 Friday morning at the archives on Turntable road (just south of the entrance to TVRM off Cromwell Road in Chattanooga), go as late as anyone is interested and then begin again on Saturday morning at about 8:00 until 3:30 or so. (IF anyone wants to work on Sunday, you must let us know at archives@... and we will see if that can be arranged.) Any questions, send us an email as soon as possible.

The attached PDF document is the working copy of the Southern freight car to Card List index we will be using.

Ike


locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] moloco Southern FGE = "The Beer Car"

James
 

Scott,

The 529983 was started from an Accurail  5600 series exterior post car.  I kept the sides and under frame.  The ends are cast resin modifiedfrtm a 5277 end to the smaller size for 529983’s 5029CF size.  The roof is an Athearn Genesis PS bowtie roof available from Cannon & Co.

I picked 529983 because it is the only Southern car I have seen with the Evans AirPak logo. There were 25 or so cars from I think the 33000 series sent to Evans to have the AirPak dividers added and the cars upgraded to 100 ton with a truck change as well.

Wherever I found the pic of 529983 I do not remember, might be George Elwood’s site.
The clinic also included the CofG 3500 series boxcars.

All three cars will be finished on my group page:

James Wall
Rural Hall, NC




locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] moloco Southern FGE = "The Beer Car"

D. Scott Chatfield
 

James,

How did you build the 529983?


Scott Chatfield


locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] moloco Southern FGE = "The Beer Car"

James
 

Scott,

I did not use the Eel River car.  I start with the Walthers NACC car and used only the under frame and sides.  The ends and doors are newly cast resin parts.  I have done more work but don’t have pictures yet.

This car was part of the clinic as well.  Which included a new set of decals by Mask Island to get the Evans logo.


Here is a close up of the new door.


James Wall
Rural Hall, NC




locked Re: Southern Railway 40 ft boxcars 505700-505848 (40-ft with 16' plug doors )

O Fenton Wells
 

By the way, if the SRHA is doing an article on Brick cars/business, one place to look would be the Employee Magazine from March 1966 about the business in Sanford NC.  I have enclosed a scan of the cover of this issue.
Fenton Wells

On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 3:44 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Yes, Mask Island offers the plug doos for these cars. If we have them in stock, you can order them through the SRHA company store www.srha.net.

It's still on the work bench without a road number but I've attached a photo of a CG version of the car. (I prefer to use a photo to finish decals but even with 392 40' SR box car photos in the SRHA archives, there are none of the CofG brick cars. Might someone have a photo they can share? I'll include it in the new version of the SR 40' box car book if possible.)

Ike



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] moloco Southern FGE = "The Beer Car"

D. Scott Chatfield
 

You beat me to it, James.  I assume you used Eel River beer car sides?  (That's what I used.) What did you use for the roof and ends?


Scott Chatfield


locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] moloco Southern FGE = "The Beer Car"

James
 

Here is a picture of the near complete kit bash for this series FGE car:


Clinic was presented in Winston Salem RPM this year.

James Wall
Rural Hall, NC




locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] moloco Southern FGE = "The Beer Car"

George Eichelberger
 

Mike:

I agree 100%!

People have asked why there is so much “business” data in the Southern 50’ box car book. With the data we have in the SRHA collection, I thought even the “rivet counters” would be interested in knowing why and how the railroad acquired its rolling stock.

People are surprised to hear that almost every SR order for 50’ box cars was for a specific, dedicated shipper. The only “general service” cars purchased were when the Southern decided to enter the “IPD” business with their own fleet. When that concept fell apart, those free running cars were converted to rood hatch services.

I expect every box car order after the 40’ era began with an AFE that described the investment, how the cars would be used, etc. Aside from the financial info, the description of the equipment led directly to the order’s specification and explains how and why cars were set up as they were.

As an example, I’ve attached two draft pages from the second SR 50’ box car book. Note one AFE form is included on the second page. We will condense one section and run it as a TIES article early next year. (A reminder…if anyone would like a copy of the first 50’ box car book (1938-1962), they are less than two dozen copies from going out of print.)

We need to organize and clean up the NCP files at Chattanooga then revisit all that are included in the box car book to made sure we have extracted everything useful. We need to go through that process for the SR passenger car (two volumes) and diesel (draft is more than 400 pages) but that can only happen with some serious help.

I’ll be going up to Chattanooga late this week and again in November.

Ike




On Nov 4, 2018, at 11:58 PM, michael <yardcoolie1968@...> wrote:

Ike,
When I first learned of the NCP folders, the idea occurred to me that a good Ties article would be "How to Build a Southern Railcar."

Having built equipment my entire career, I have sort of taken the whole process for granted. The average Ties reader has no exposure to building equipment of any kind and most only see the result.

The process of going from a proposal, funds allocation, initial specification, project milestones, change orders, product acceptance, et al applied to a specific railcar would expose the Ties reader to an overview of that process and hopefully provide some interesting details about that car.

The NCP files seem to have enough data to support writing such an article.

If this idea seems good, it could be an initial article to introduce the process and a series of articles for selected NCP cars.

If you think it would be of interest, I would volunteer.

Mike Turner

MP-Z35


locked Re: Southern Railway 40 ft boxcars 505700-505848 (40-ft with 16' plug doors )

Tom Holley
 

Hello, all. There is a photo on Elwood's Fallen Flags site of CG 4751, stenciled "Return to Krannert When Empty". Hope this helps.

Regards,

Tom Holley


locked moloco Southern FGE = "The Beer Car"

George Eichelberger
 

All:

I trust it will be OK with NIck Molo if I forward his “Master Class” discussion to the group. I’ve posted it on the Southern Railway (not only “modeling”) group because of its business and operating information.

Nick always does the research needed to produce excellent models and background information to go along with them. His Southern leased FGE cars are superb models. As I have mentioned before, modelers need to support high quality manufacturers by purchasing their kits and RTR offerings while they are available.

I have always been interested in the large number of insulated box cars Fruit Growers built for the Southern. They include:

Southern 70-ton 52 ft. 6 in. Insulated Box Cars Built by Fruit Growers Express Co.
Southern 70-ton 52 ft. 6 in. SCUF Insulated Box Cars 650-899, NCP-177
SCUF Insulated Box Cars 201-299 and 585000-585199, NCP-188
CUF Insulated Box Cars 585200-585699, NCP-201
SCUF Insulated Box Cars 100-299 and 585000-585199, NCP-201-A
CUF Insulated Box Cars 584824-584999, NCP-211 and NCP-212
CUF Insulated Box Cars 585700-585923, NCP-211-A

I’ve suggested that Moloco might offer these but, unfortunately, they are unique to the Southern. As Nick pointed out, FGE was really in the car assembly business. They bought parts; roofs, ends, side and specialties fro multiple vendors and did final assembly at their plant in Alexandria, VA. The combination of parts used on the Southern’s orders were not used on other roads’ cars.

As Nick mentions, many of the Southern and CofG leases were for beer service from various breweries. The cars in the “New Car Programs” (NCPs) listed were almost all for cars to be used for a new Miller brewery under construction at Eden, NC. They have their own section in Book 2 of the upcoming SRHA 50’ box car book. (Photos or information about any Southern rolling stock are certainly welcome.)

A project at archives work sessions needs to be to review the NCP files to make sure the chapter includes all of the data we have. We’ll be at the archives at least twice in November and another two or three times in Dec. If you are interested in attending, send an email to archives@srha.net.

Ike



Begin forwarded message:

From: moloco <molocotrains.yahoo.com@send.mailchimpapp.com>
Subject: moloco Southern FGE = "The Beer Car"
Date: November 3, 2018 at 8:41:41 PM EDT
To: <geichelberger@bellsouth.net>
Reply-To: <molocotrains@yahoo.com>


moloco Southern FGE master class
= "The" Beer Car
the numbers
Southern had 1179 insulated boxcars leased from FGE, that includes it's subsidiary lines, like Central Of Georgia or Norfolk Southern. Of those, 461 were of the 10-foot centered design with single rivet pattern like Moloco currently offers. Part of which there is a solid block of Southern cars that were assigned as BEER CARS. The beer companies serviced were Miller, Pabst and Falstaff.

the locations
During the era of these cars in service, Miller had several plant locations, firstly Milwaukee, then later Fort Worth in 1969, Albany, GA in 1979, Irwindale, CA in 1980, Elkton, VA in 1987. Pabst had a few plants itself, again in Milwaukee, Peoria, IL in 1934, Perry, GA in 1968 (railroad location was Pabst, GA). Falstaff was from St. Louis and other plants through acquisitions Omaha, NE (Krug, 1936), New Orleans, LA (National 1937), Fort Wayne, IN (Berghoff 1954), Galveston, TX (Galveston-Houston 1956), El Paso, TX (Mitchell 1956), Rhode Island (Narragansett 1965).

With the recent releases of FGE RBLs I wanted to continued the series of master classes and specifically it's relationship with Beer traffic. Southern was involved with many national car pools and therefore no stranger when soliciting beer loadings understanding the lucrative nature and year round revenues. These pools would involve multiple railroads that would serve these listed plants and then many distributors across the nation.

For this instalment of master class the focus will be for the two pairs of Southern FGE cars produced by Moloco. Two for Miller and two for Pabst. The Southern return route rectangle so common on FGE boxcars had return locations of Milwaukee, WISC on the Milwaukee Road for Miller Brewing and Pabst, GA on the Southern for the Pabst Brewing cars. The other cars produced by Moloco in the past that were in beer service were Rock Island General American RBLs for Pabst Brewing in Peoria, IL, which may also translate to the ROCK cars as well at later dates. Moloco RI #6508 was a specific car number of many that we know were in Pabst service. The EL GA RBLs assigned car numbers #68301, #68305, #68319 and #68351 to Miller Brewing, even though we didn't make those specific numbers in that run. The hometown road of Milwaukee Road most likely served one or all of the brewers in town, see the available Moloco examples below. We also believe but could not confirm Wabash, MODX, MP and WADX RBLs being in Anheuser-Busch service. We also believe the SOO General American RBLs we produce a few years back also were in beer service, but not sure out of which of the many upper Midwest brewers that they could have served.

We can speculate from the above information that these national brands were being delivered by these Southern cars to all parts of the country before more localized beer plants were set-up. Meaning that even the west coast and mountain time zones received Miller High Life and Pabst Blue Ribbon!


SKU #33054 SOUTHERN repaint AX 4-65 (2 car numbers) - re-weighed/repainted at the FGE Alexandria, VA shop in 1965. It has the brown end double stripe scheme typical of that era. Note how the rivet strip on the ends is prototypically painted yellow. It has it's typical application of Morton tread roofwalk, Moloco is the only manufacturer to produce this a roofwalk accurately with up and over roof rib profile. FGE cars of this era had their full roof painted silver as well, presumably for heat protection/reflection from the sun. Being a 1965 repaint it still has it's full height ladders.

SKU #33024 SOUTHERN repaint AX 1-75 (2 car numbers) - re-weighed/repainted at the FGE Alexandria, VA shop in 1975. Note at this period of FGE practice the cars were painted all yellow and the A end ladders were cut down and roofwalk removed. However, roofwalk brackets remained on the roofs, accurately produced. Note the diagonally stacked For Greatest Efficiency logo starts directly under the FRUIT for the all yellow scheme. It also has an ACI label and COTS.


SOUTHERN 791508 - Represents the 1965 cars in this case. SOUTHERN 791500 - Represents the 1975 cars. This close-up shows the return route railroad CMSTP&P RR for the earlier cars whereas the later car has SOU RWY instead. Look at the differences in the rectangular return route boxes; 791508 has a 5 line return route, whereas 791500 has a 4 line one typical found on later era cars. The Lading Band Anchor symbol on the door is present on the older car and has been removed on the all yellow car. This also highlights changing stenciling practices on the door data and positions. Even though the reporting marks and numbers seem to be in the same position on the car sides, the CAPY block and Insulated -Cushioned lettering have moved around slightly which is to be expected with a ten year gap. Ironically, the 1975 repainted cars has floor loading (25K) and L and R stenciling applied to the left side of the door opening. Paint data in the top left also matches the repaint date and type of paint used, a common FGE practice.

Surely some one drinks beer on your model railroad...Cheers!





POOL CARS - Above 4 examples of 3 schemes that we have produced that were to our knowledge were in beer service. Specific Rock Island General American RBLs were in the Pabst nationwide pool. Four specific car numbers mentioned above were in Miller Brewing service, our example shows how they looked. The other 2 cars represent most likely beer service cars in the Milwaukee area. These cars represent 1979 repaints of the distinctive yellow doored cars. Note the differences between these almost identical schemes. They still have the LRD lettering on the doors, albeit a lot smaller. See our previous master class on Milwaukee cars for the specifics.

I hope you've learnt something about Southern FGE boxcars and the partnership with beer service. We are glad to give an insight of what we go through to bring you the best products in the industry. We hope to produce additional runs of the RI and EL cars in the future, so one can fill out their beer fleet if they missed out the first time - Nick Molo, owner moloco
Remember that shipping is only $9.99 for 1-5 cars and FREE SHIPPING for 6 cars and over, for USA customers.
Copyright © 2018 moloco, All rights reserved.

molocotrains@yahoo.com


locked Re: Cooling Pipes on Southern E-6s

David Friedlander
 

Ike,
Thanks for posting this.  This was a detail I was hoping to figure out how to do in O scale at some point. 

Two questions. 
1. Are there any existing good photos of what these look like?
2. The drawing says 1958 on it.  Was this the first year these coils were put on E6 and/or E7 units?

Thanks,
David Friedlander


On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 4:15 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
I have always liked how the Southern's modified E-6s looked.. As soon as I saw the Proto 2000 E-6s I have wanted to modify one in the same style.

The pier panels on the body castings Athern uses in their Fs are almost precisely the same (correct) dimension as the panels on the E-6s. After quite a bit of very careful cutting and filing, I am reasonably happy (see photo) with the result. In addition to the modified sides, the roof mounted aftercooler pipes are one of the "signature" parts of the units.

BUT, there is a problem. All other piping on Es and Fs is just piping, the E-6s have 4x4" cooling fins. I can cut dozens of fins from plastic or brass, then drill and mount them on pipes but I am not certain that can be done with the accuracy and appearance anything mounted on a diesel's roof needs. Any ideas?

Ike


locked Re: Cooling Pipes on Southern E-6s

Tim
 

I think about the only way to do this reasonably is with photo-etched metal. They'll all be the same size and the holes will be centered. Hunt around for someplace that does custom photo-etching. You may be able to get the fins and spacers both in one part. Be warned that the fins won't be thin enough (unless you change to #1 scale) and there will be fewer fins, but it should capture the effect your looking for.

And Ike isn't nuts. He's not trying to do this in N scale (unlike some of us). :)

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


locked Re: Cooling Pipes on Southern E-6s

D. Scott Chatfield
 

[In case anyone was wondering if Ike is nuts, here's your evidence....]

Ike wrote:

>BUT, there is a problem. All other piping on Es and Fs is just piping, the E-6s have 4x4" cooling fins. I can cut dozens of fins from plastic or brass, then drill and mount them on pipes but I am not certain that can be done with the accuracy and appearance anything mounted on a diesel's roof needs. Any ideas?

Um, no you can't.  Well, not to the level of accuracy called for in the drawing.  HO fins would be less than .0003" thick.  And then you'd need about 600 of them, and about 598 smaller spacers to keep them spaced properly.

Okay, so maybe there is a way if you'll accept fins about ten times too thick.  Etch the fins and spacers out of .002 brass or stainless.  (I would think aluminum that thin would be too easily mangled.)  64 of those stacked (32 fins and spacers) would be about a scale foot long.  The fins would be 4.5" square.  The spacers more like tiny washers about the width of the pipe.  Slide them on a thin rod, maybe .010"?  You'll still need about 600 of each.  Have fun!  Don't sneeze!


Scott Chatfield


locked Cooling Pipes on Southern E-6s

George Eichelberger
 

I have always liked how the Southern's modified E-6s looked.. As soon as I saw the Proto 2000 E-6s I have wanted to modify one in the same style.

The pier panels on the body castings Athern uses in their Fs are almost precisely the same (correct) dimension as the panels on the E-6s. After quite a bit of very careful cutting and filing, I am reasonably happy (see photo) with the result. In addition to the modified sides, the roof mounted aftercooler pipes are one of the "signature" parts of the units.

BUT, there is a problem. All other piping on Es and Fs is just piping, the E-6s have 4x4" cooling fins. I can cut dozens of fins from plastic or brass, then drill and mount them on pipes but I am not certain that can be done with the accuracy and appearance anything mounted on a diesel's roof needs. Any ideas?

Ike


locked Re: Southern Railway 40 ft boxcars 505700-505848 (40-ft with 16' plug doors )

George Eichelberger
 

Yes, Mask Island offers the plug doos for these cars. If we have them in stock, you can order them through the SRHA company store www.srha.net.

It's still on the work bench without a road number but I've attached a photo of a CG version of the car. (I prefer to use a photo to finish decals but even with 392 40' SR box car photos in the SRHA archives, there are none of the CofG brick cars. Might someone have a photo they can share? I'll include it in the new version of the SR 40' box car book if possible.)

Ike

1621 - 1640 of 1746