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Re: New member questions on the St. Louis line
Al Collins <erb_2939@...>
Thanks for that info and link Tim, greatly appricated!
Thanks,
Alex
-------- Original message --------
From: Tim <tarumph@...>
Date: 2020-07-15 09:24 (GMT-06:00)
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] New member questions on the St. Louis line
There is a "Freight Train Schedules and Blocking Instructions" for 1979 available here:
http://southern.railfan.net/paper/sr_paper.html
At a first glance through the index, here are the trains I see that mention East St. Louis or Louisville or parts thereabouts. 111 East St. Louis to Knoxville 112 Knoxville to East St. Louis 120 Louisville-Centrailia-Galesburg (BN) 123 East St. Louis to Macon 124 Chattanooga to East St. Louis 127 East St. Louis to Knoxville 128 Knoxville to East St. Louis 129 Louisville to Cincinnati 130 Cincinnati to Louisville 160 Macon to Louisville 161 Louisville to Macon 231 Chicago Mt. Vernon Danville (MP [C&EI]) 232 Danville Mt. Vernon Chicago (MP [C&EI]) 360 Chattanooga to Louisville 361 Louisville to Chattanooga Tim Rumph Lancaster, SC
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Silverside gon slide on ebay
Jim King
Looks to have been repainted at Coster prior to this 1970 display (trucks sideframes also silver). Lettering is green. Were they repainted green when shopped from original vermilion? Recent discussion here indicates no rhyme/reason for vermillion or green but I suspect vermilion’s fading, especially under abuse from coal service, might have played a roll in that. Could it be that Claytor liked green more than vermillion and, as he rose to “power” over Brosnan, he started to influence colors like he did when converting boxcar-red cabooses to red?
Jim King http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/
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Re: New member questions on the St. Louis line
Stuart Thayer
To add to this, I don’t remember which train it was, but we used to see run through BN power come into Louisville from St Louis.
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Stuart Thayer
On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Tim <tarumph@...> wrote:
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Re: New member questions on the St. Louis line
There is a "Freight Train Schedules and Blocking Instructions" for 1979 available here: http://southern.railfan.net/paper/sr_paper.html
At a first glance through the index, here are the trains I see that mention East St. Louis or Louisville or parts thereabouts. 111 East St. Louis to Knoxville 112 Knoxville to East St. Louis 120 Louisville-Centrailia-Galesburg (BN) 123 East St. Louis to Macon 124 Chattanooga to East St. Louis 127 East St. Louis to Knoxville 128 Knoxville to East St. Louis 129 Louisville to Cincinnati 130 Cincinnati to Louisville 160 Macon to Louisville 161 Louisville to Macon 231 Chicago Mt. Vernon Danville (MP [C&EI]) 232 Danville Mt. Vernon Chicago (MP [C&EI]) 360 Chattanooga to Louisville 361 Louisville to Chattanooga Tim Rumph Lancaster, SC
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Re: New member questions on the St. Louis line
Stuart Thayer
Alex,
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There were also trains 123 and 124 which were about the hottest trains on that line. Used to watch 124 come off the K&IT bridge in New Albany in the afternoons heading west. It usually had big power, either SD40-2’s or SD45’s. It was also always a radio train as was 123. The other trains that I saw pretty regularly was a radio unit coal train that came off the AW&W at Oakland City IN. That train used the Southern Ortner rapid discharge cars. Not sure where it ran to loaded but it came through Louisville loaded EB and empty WB. The WB train would have all of the power including the Radio Car up front. They would cut the radio units in mid-train at Oakland City after it was loaded. Stuart Thayer
On Jul 15, 2020, at 9:15 AM, Al Collins <erb_2939@...> wrote:
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New member questions on the St. Louis line
Al Collins <erb_2939@...>
Hello everyone,
I in the planning stages of of a HO-scale layout based on the Louisville to St. Louis line.
I've tried searching on the web for informating on the line but have had no luck.
Primarily I'm looking for what were the trains that ran over it with orgins and destinations. I've seen mention of 111 and 112 in what I have managed to find.
Also where there any locals that ran on the line and what online customers where there? I've also seen mention of a train 73.
Also, this is a broad question, but basically anything of revelent would be appricated.
Thanks you in advance,
Alex
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Re: Saluda timing circuits
Paul Schmidt
Thanks, Robert. I completely missed seeing those vertical numbers until much later, after my reply to Fenton. Elsewise I wouldn't have ID'd it incorrectly. I'm so accustomed to seeing white horizontal numerals on a black background at intermediates. I just figured it could not have been an absolute (in the middle of a grade!?) so thought that the "distant" sign was just missing. I appreciate the information. Another piece of the puzzle found!
-- Paul Schmidt Sequim WA
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Re: Saluda timing circuits
Robert Graham
Mr. Schmidt,
The signal illustrated in Fenton's photo at the start of the Saluda timing section is a 2 aspect signal, not a single fixed aspect. SOU fixed aspect signals on Eastern Lines in modern times were GRS model 2-D color lights. If a fixed aspect, it would only have a single target and aspect. These were common, for example, at approach boards from track warrant territory approaching TC territory. The signal Fenton photographed has a number plate, making it an intermediate signal. I would believe it could display amber (and is in his photo) "approach" and red, or "restricting". The pertinent SOU rule book for the era you are writing about would have a full discussion of signal aspects and their meanings under various types of operation. I am certain it would add much to your discussion. If you already have these materials, my apologies. I do not collect rule books and do not have one, but they should be easy to obtain. Bob Graham ----------------------------------------- From: pschmidt3013@...To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Cc: Sent: Monday July 13 2020 12:20:21PM Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Saluda timing circuits On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 04:41 AM, O Fenton Wells wrote: Thank you, Fenton. Those put me a step closer to the goal. Now I know there were cases and a signal at the start of circuit, as well as the sign, which I knew was there. And the signal was likely a fixed aspect yellow. -- Paul Schmidt Sequim WA
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Re: Saluda timing circuits
I thinkI still have the original slides and can provide a tiff image if needed. Fenton
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 12:20 PM <pschmidt3013@...> wrote: On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 04:41 AM, O Fenton Wells wrote: --
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Re: Saluda timing circuits
Paul Schmidt
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 04:41 AM, O Fenton Wells wrote:
Thank you, Fenton. Those put me a step closer to the goal. Now I know there were cases and a signal at the start of circuit, as well as the sign, which I knew was there. And the signal was likely a fixed aspect yellow. -- Paul Schmidt Sequim WA
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Re: Saluda timing circuits
Paul, I don't know if this will help but I took these photos in the Fall of 1984 on a trip to Saluda. You may use them if they will help your article Fenton
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 6:04 AM <pschmidt3013@...> wrote: Just as a reminder, I'm looking for signal prints and other documentation on the timing circuits for Saluda Grade. My intent is to put this information together for a story in "Ties." --
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Re: Southern Crescent Consists
Jim Younger
Hello
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Can anyone advise if there are any books on the Crescent after Amtrak started but BEFORE Amtrak took it over? Jim Younger
On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:34 PM, Byron Osborn <bosborn10@...> wrote:
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Re: White Number Boards
Don Usak
In the days when Linwood was still a pipe dream and 153 came out of Pot Yard and 173, 453, and 155 originated at Spencer, all usually ran radio. As Tim says, when tonnage was light the trains would have all the power on the head end. But what most don't know is that we would often run them radio even though all the power was on the head end. This to make the Charlotte pickup much easier.
Leaving Spencer the radio equipment would be activated and there would be no MU cable and no MU hoses coupled between the head end power and what would become the mid-train power at Charlotte. The engineer knew to keep his radio unit isolated and its feed valve cut out until he made his pickup at Charlotte and while he was making his brake test at Spencer. On arrival at Charlotte, you cut behind the head end power and leave the train and the radio car/mid-train locomotive on the main, go get the pickup and come back to the train. Didn't have to radio the train because it was already done. Alas, this practice was frowned upon when it was discovered. A memo would come out about once a year prohibiting this and we had to lay low for a while. But no one ever came up with a good reason why this was a bad practice so we were right back at it again until the next memo came out. Good times and good railroading and lots of fun. Regards, Don
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Re: White Number Boards
Rodney Shu
I can remember in the mid-'60's hearing about some bad derailments around the tunnels on the CNO&TP when the Radio Control Cars lost radio signals. New technology sometimes takes a little time to get the bugs out.
Just think how far the industry has come.
Rod S.
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 8:39 AM To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@southernrailway.groups.io> Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] White Number Boards Thanks for the very informative information on white number boards and LOCO - TROL. I guess you do learn something new every day.
Thanks, Michael Shirey
On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 9:23 AM Tim <tarumph@...> wrote:
Here's a train doing something similar in Alexandria.
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Re: White Number Boards
Michael Shirey
Thanks for the very informative information on white number boards and LOCO - TROL. I guess you do learn something new every day. Thanks, Michael Shirey
On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 9:23 AM Tim <tarumph@...> wrote: Here's a train doing something similar in Alexandria.
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Re: White Number Boards
Here's a train doing something similar in Alexandria.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=736111 Tim Rumph Lancaster, SC
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Re: White Number Boards
The units with white number boards were set up as controlling units. The mid-train locomotives were connected to a radio control car (most looked like boxcars, but only end doors, no side doors). The radio control cars had MU connections to control the locomotives and any locomotives could be used.
I can remember train 169 coming into Charlotte with a fairly short train from Linwood, and all the locomotives and the R/C car on the head end. They'd make a big pickup in Charlotte and put the R/C car and locos midtrain while they were doing it. They referred to this as, "radioing the train." Tim Rumph Lancaster, SC
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Re: White Number Boards
Southern applied white number boards to locomotives that were equipped with Locotrol. The locomotives could be used as master or slave units on those trains that had mid train helpers- as they were called then or DPU’s is the term now.
James Wall Rural Hall, NC
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Re: White Number Boards
Sam Smith
The white number boards was still an indicator of loco-trol master units back in those days. Loco-trol was the name for the remotely operated Locomotives in mid-train helper service.
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White Number Boards
Michael Shirey
As I am adding DCC to a new Athearn GP50 I just revived. I notice something strange. The loco I am working with has a white number board #7010 and apone further research. I notice that the Southern 7003-7016 are the only GP50'S to have white number boards. All others in the fleet are all black. Can some one enplane why this is? Not trying to be a rivet counter but I find it interesting..
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