Date   

locked Southern’s Single Window Coaches

Evan Miller
 

Hello everyone, Micro-Trains just released an N Scale Southern single window coach with road number 4500. I was wondering how common single window coaches were on the Southern, and does anyone have any information on the class the 4500 was in? 

-Evan Miller


locked Just a nice drawing!

George Eichelberger
 

It has been some time since I looked at scans of the of the oldest Southern passenger car drawings, I revisited a series of “standard” car drawings from 1904 and 05. 

It took the Southern about ten years to document the rolling stock received from the various predecessors before they started ordering new equipment. Starting about 1904, the railroad produced a series of standard freight and passenger car designs. They appear to have been used mostly to begin conversations with carbuilders. It is difficult to equate drawings from that period to different orders and car numbers because other documentation, and photos, are so rare.

In any case, here is an example, SP-1003 drawn 12-28-1904. Note that most of the drawings shown in the “Details” list use predecessor drawing numbers, most like a system adopted from the R&D. Quite a few of the older drawings were given a new Southern title block and drawing number . The linen originals from SP-1000 (the starting number) are in the archives at Chattanooga.

Ike





locked Re: New member questions on the St. Louis line

Charles Powell
 

Alex,
I saw a posting on the "Trainorders" website with link to an author's website advertising a book "Railroads of Indiana" for $59.00. There was a short video clip showing some of the photos in the book and there was one of some SR SD40-2s. I have no idea if the book has more SR photos than the one on the video. I suspect that considering SR's limited millage in Indiana there is probably not as much as Pennsy, NYC, Monon, etc. Maybe someone in this group has the book and can let us know. The website link is below.
Regards,
Charlie   
 https://michaelckelly.net/


locked Re: Silverside gon slide on ebay

Bill Schafer
 

This photo was taken probably on August 6 or 7 1970 at what was left of Terminal Station, Birmingham, when Pullman-Standard’s 200,000th boxcar, SOU 555055, was on display (right in picture) in the three-color paint scheme. This car exists, restored in its original colors, at NCTM at Spencer, N.C. 

I was in Birmingham on August 7, having arrived from Washington on one of the last Birmingham Specials that morning  (via Bristol-Chattanooga), and was waiting to return on the Southern Crescent. I spent the layover in SOU’s Exhibit Car (left in photo). The Silversides was on display along with 550555 (and maybe a few other SOU cars) to highlight the variety of modern freight cars available to shippers. Several members of Southern’s customer service engineering staff were there too, I guess to explain how SOU could custom design a freight car if there was sufficient demand. Much more information on SOU 550555 and the Birmingham Special in 2018-4 TIES.

At the time, I was still a poor college kid and as a result, film was a significant budget item. If I had to do it all over again, I would have taken photos of each of the freight cars on display that day plus the Exhibit Car plus the people in it. As it is, though, the only photo I took was of 550555, with the very end of the Silversides in the frame. 

—Bill Schafer

On Jul 16, 2020, at 02:35, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

I’m gonna concur with Senior Graham on this one. Enlarging the picture it is clearly black. 

Jason Greene 

On Jul 16, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Robert Graham <rgraham2@...> wrote:

The lettering on SOU 1116 sure looks black to me. FWIW, I saw and photographed more of the 1960's era all-aluminum cars (4000 series cement covered hoppers, 6200 series 3 bay covered hoppers and Big Johns) with black lettering than with green lettering. While I did not see that many silversides coal gondolas, and those I saw were early on all with the red lettering, later as these cars aged and the aluminum car bodies darkened, it was common to see them in the late SOU era lettered in white. 

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Jim King" 
To: ModelingTheSouthern@SouthernRailway.groups.io, main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday July 15 2020 3:08:05PM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Silverside gon slide on ebay

 
Looks to have been repainted at Coster prior to this 1970 display (trucks sideframes also silver).  Lettering is green.  Were they repainted green when shopped from original vermilion?  Recent discussion here indicates no rhyme/reason for vermillion or green but I suspect vermilion’s fading, especially under abuse from coal service, might have played a roll in that.  Could it be that Claytor liked green more than vermillion and, as he rose to “power” over Brosnan, he started to influence colors like he did when converting boxcar-red cabooses to red?
 
Jim King
 


locked Re: Silverside gon slide on ebay

Jason Greene
 

I’m gonna concur with Senior Graham on this one. Enlarging the picture it is clearly black. 

Jason Greene 

On Jul 16, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Robert Graham <rgraham2@...> wrote:

The lettering on SOU 1116 sure looks black to me. FWIW, I saw and photographed more of the 1960's era all-aluminum cars (4000 series cement covered hoppers, 6200 series 3 bay covered hoppers and Big Johns) with black lettering than with green lettering. While I did not see that many silversides coal gondolas, and those I saw were early on all with the red lettering, later as these cars aged and the aluminum car bodies darkened, it was common to see them in the late SOU era lettered in white. 

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Jim King"
To: ModelingTheSouthern@SouthernRailway.groups.io, main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday July 15 2020 3:08:05PM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Silverside gon slide on ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Slide-Southern-SOU-1116-Hopper-Car-August-1970/373115491098?hash=item56df6a931a:g:aZIAAOSwlGZfDhpG

 

Looks to have been repainted at Coster prior to this 1970 display (trucks sideframes also silver).  Lettering is green.  Were they repainted green when shopped from original vermilion?  Recent discussion here indicates no rhyme/reason for vermillion or green but I suspect vermilion’s fading, especially under abuse from coal service, might have played a roll in that.  Could it be that Claytor liked green more than vermillion and, as he rose to “power” over Brosnan, he started to influence colors like he did when converting boxcar-red cabooses to red?

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


locked Re: Silverside gon slide on ebay

Robert Graham
 

The lettering on SOU 1116 sure looks black to me. FWIW, I saw and photographed more of the 1960's era all-aluminum cars (4000 series cement covered hoppers, 6200 series 3 bay covered hoppers and Big Johns) with black lettering than with green lettering. While I did not see that many silversides coal gondolas, and those I saw were early on all with the red lettering, later as these cars aged and the aluminum car bodies darkened, it was common to see them in the late SOU era lettered in white. 

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Jim King"
To: ModelingTheSouthern@SouthernRailway.groups.io, main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday July 15 2020 3:08:05PM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Silverside gon slide on ebay

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Slide-Southern-SOU-1116-Hopper-Car-August-1970/373115491098?hash=item56df6a931a:g:aZIAAOSwlGZfDhpG

 

Looks to have been repainted at Coster prior to this 1970 display (trucks sideframes also silver).  Lettering is green.  Were they repainted green when shopped from original vermilion?  Recent discussion here indicates no rhyme/reason for vermillion or green but I suspect vermilion’s fading, especially under abuse from coal service, might have played a roll in that.  Could it be that Claytor liked green more than vermillion and, as he rose to “power” over Brosnan, he started to influence colors like he did when converting boxcar-red cabooses to red?

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


locked Re: New member questions on the St. Louis line

Al Collins <erb_2939@...>
 

Now that would be interesting to see. I will seach on Flickr and see what I can turn up. Thanks again Stuart!

Thanks,

Alex



-------- Original message --------
From: "Stuart Thayer via groups.io" <StuThayer@...>
Date: 2020-07-15 10:00 (GMT-06:00)
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] New member questions on the St. Louis line

To add to this, I don’t remember which train it was, but we used to see run through BN power come into Louisville from St Louis.

Stuart Thayer


On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Tim <tarumph@...> wrote:

There is a "Freight Train Schedules and Blocking Instructions" for 1979 available here: http://southern.railfan.net/paper/sr_paper.html

At a first glance through the index, here are the trains I see that mention East St. Louis or Louisville or parts thereabouts.
111 East St. Louis to Knoxville
112 Knoxville to East St. Louis
120 Louisville-Centrailia-Galesburg (BN)
123 East St. Louis to Macon
124 Chattanooga to East St. Louis
127 East St. Louis to Knoxville
128 Knoxville to East St. Louis
129 Louisville to Cincinnati
130 Cincinnati to Louisville
160 Macon to Louisville
161 Louisville to Macon
231 Chicago Mt. Vernon Danville (MP [C&EI])
232 Danville Mt. Vernon Chicago (MP [C&EI])
360 Chattanooga to Louisville
361 Louisville to Chattanooga

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


locked Re: New member questions on the St. Louis line

Al Collins <erb_2939@...>
 

Thanks Stuart! Thats really interesting about the robot power and its arrangement. I will try and find some info about the coal train. It 

Thanks,

Alex



-------- Original message --------
From: "Stuart Thayer via groups.io" <StuThayer@...>
Date: 2020-07-15 09:09 (GMT-06:00)
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] New member questions on the St. Louis line

Alex,

There were also trains 123 and 124 which were about the hottest trains on that line.  Used to watch 124 come off the K&IT bridge in New Albany in the afternoons heading west.  It usually had big power, either SD40-2’s or SD45’s.  It was also always a radio train as was 123.

The other trains that I saw pretty regularly was a radio unit coal train that came off the AW&W at Oakland City IN.  That train used the Southern Ortner rapid discharge cars.  Not sure where it ran to loaded but it came through Louisville loaded EB and empty WB.  The WB train would have all of the power including the Radio Car up front.  They would cut the radio units in mid-train at Oakland City after it was loaded.

Stuart Thayer


On Jul 15, 2020, at 9:15 AM, Al Collins <erb_2939@...> wrote:


Hello everyone,

I in the planning stages of of a HO-scale layout based on the Louisville to St. Louis line. 

I've tried searching on the web for informating on the line but have had no luck.

Primarily I'm looking for what were the trains that ran over it with orgins and destinations. I've seen mention of 111 and 112 in what I have managed to find. 

Also where there any locals that ran on the line and what online customers where there? I've also seen mention of a train 73.

Also, this is a broad question, but basically anything of revelent would be appricated. 

Thanks you in advance,

Alex



locked Re: New member questions on the St. Louis line

Al Collins <erb_2939@...>
 

Thanks for that info and link Tim, greatly appricated! 


Thanks,

Alex



-------- Original message --------
From: Tim <tarumph@...>
Date: 2020-07-15 09:24 (GMT-06:00)
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] New member questions on the St. Louis line

There is a "Freight Train Schedules and Blocking Instructions" for 1979 available here: http://southern.railfan.net/paper/sr_paper.html

At a first glance through the index, here are the trains I see that mention East St. Louis or Louisville or parts thereabouts.
111 East St. Louis to Knoxville
112 Knoxville to East St. Louis
120 Louisville-Centrailia-Galesburg (BN)
123 East St. Louis to Macon
124 Chattanooga to East St. Louis
127 East St. Louis to Knoxville
128 Knoxville to East St. Louis
129 Louisville to Cincinnati
130 Cincinnati to Louisville
160 Macon to Louisville
161 Louisville to Macon
231 Chicago Mt. Vernon Danville (MP [C&EI])
232 Danville Mt. Vernon Chicago (MP [C&EI])
360 Chattanooga to Louisville
361 Louisville to Chattanooga

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


locked Silverside gon slide on ebay

Jim King
 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Slide-Southern-SOU-1116-Hopper-Car-August-1970/373115491098?hash=item56df6a931a:g:aZIAAOSwlGZfDhpG

 

Looks to have been repainted at Coster prior to this 1970 display (trucks sideframes also silver).  Lettering is green.  Were they repainted green when shopped from original vermilion?  Recent discussion here indicates no rhyme/reason for vermillion or green but I suspect vermilion’s fading, especially under abuse from coal service, might have played a roll in that.  Could it be that Claytor liked green more than vermillion and, as he rose to “power” over Brosnan, he started to influence colors like he did when converting boxcar-red cabooses to red?

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


locked Re: New member questions on the St. Louis line

Stuart Thayer
 

To add to this, I don’t remember which train it was, but we used to see run through BN power come into Louisville from St Louis.

Stuart Thayer


On Jul 15, 2020, at 10:24 AM, Tim <tarumph@...> wrote:

There is a "Freight Train Schedules and Blocking Instructions" for 1979 available here: http://southern.railfan.net/paper/sr_paper.html

At a first glance through the index, here are the trains I see that mention East St. Louis or Louisville or parts thereabouts.
111 East St. Louis to Knoxville
112 Knoxville to East St. Louis
120 Louisville-Centrailia-Galesburg (BN)
123 East St. Louis to Macon
124 Chattanooga to East St. Louis
127 East St. Louis to Knoxville
128 Knoxville to East St. Louis
129 Louisville to Cincinnati
130 Cincinnati to Louisville
160 Macon to Louisville
161 Louisville to Macon
231 Chicago Mt. Vernon Danville (MP [C&EI])
232 Danville Mt. Vernon Chicago (MP [C&EI])
360 Chattanooga to Louisville
361 Louisville to Chattanooga

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


locked Re: New member questions on the St. Louis line

Tim
 

There is a "Freight Train Schedules and Blocking Instructions" for 1979 available here: http://southern.railfan.net/paper/sr_paper.html

At a first glance through the index, here are the trains I see that mention East St. Louis or Louisville or parts thereabouts.
111 East St. Louis to Knoxville
112 Knoxville to East St. Louis
120 Louisville-Centrailia-Galesburg (BN)
123 East St. Louis to Macon
124 Chattanooga to East St. Louis
127 East St. Louis to Knoxville
128 Knoxville to East St. Louis
129 Louisville to Cincinnati
130 Cincinnati to Louisville
160 Macon to Louisville
161 Louisville to Macon
231 Chicago Mt. Vernon Danville (MP [C&EI])
232 Danville Mt. Vernon Chicago (MP [C&EI])
360 Chattanooga to Louisville
361 Louisville to Chattanooga

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


locked Re: New member questions on the St. Louis line

Stuart Thayer
 

Alex,

There were also trains 123 and 124 which were about the hottest trains on that line.  Used to watch 124 come off the K&IT bridge in New Albany in the afternoons heading west.  It usually had big power, either SD40-2’s or SD45’s.  It was also always a radio train as was 123.

The other trains that I saw pretty regularly was a radio unit coal train that came off the AW&W at Oakland City IN.  That train used the Southern Ortner rapid discharge cars.  Not sure where it ran to loaded but it came through Louisville loaded EB and empty WB.  The WB train would have all of the power including the Radio Car up front.  They would cut the radio units in mid-train at Oakland City after it was loaded.

Stuart Thayer


On Jul 15, 2020, at 9:15 AM, Al Collins <erb_2939@...> wrote:


Hello everyone,

I in the planning stages of of a HO-scale layout based on the Louisville to St. Louis line. 

I've tried searching on the web for informating on the line but have had no luck.

Primarily I'm looking for what were the trains that ran over it with orgins and destinations. I've seen mention of 111 and 112 in what I have managed to find. 

Also where there any locals that ran on the line and what online customers where there? I've also seen mention of a train 73.

Also, this is a broad question, but basically anything of revelent would be appricated. 

Thanks you in advance,

Alex



locked New member questions on the St. Louis line

Al Collins <erb_2939@...>
 

Hello everyone,

I in the planning stages of of a HO-scale layout based on the Louisville to St. Louis line. 

I've tried searching on the web for informating on the line but have had no luck.

Primarily I'm looking for what were the trains that ran over it with orgins and destinations. I've seen mention of 111 and 112 in what I have managed to find. 

Also where there any locals that ran on the line and what online customers where there? I've also seen mention of a train 73.

Also, this is a broad question, but basically anything of revelent would be appricated. 

Thanks you in advance,

Alex



locked Re: Saluda timing circuits

Paul Schmidt
 

Thanks, Robert. I completely missed seeing those vertical numbers until much later, after my reply to Fenton. Elsewise I wouldn't have ID'd it incorrectly. I'm so accustomed to seeing white horizontal numerals on a black background at intermediates. I just figured it could not have been an absolute (in the middle of a grade!?) so thought that the "distant" sign was just missing. I appreciate the information. Another piece of the puzzle found!
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA


locked Re: Saluda timing circuits

Robert Graham
 

Mr. Schmidt,

The signal illustrated in Fenton's photo at the start of the Saluda timing section is a 2 aspect signal, not a single fixed aspect. SOU fixed aspect signals on Eastern Lines in modern times were GRS model 2-D color lights. If a fixed aspect, it would only have a single target and aspect. These were common, for example, at approach boards from track warrant territory approaching TC territory. The signal Fenton photographed has a number plate, making it an intermediate signal. I would believe it could display amber (and is in his photo) "approach" and red, or "restricting". The pertinent SOU rule book for the era you are writing about would have a full discussion of signal aspects and their meanings under various types of operation. I am certain it would add much to your discussion. If you already have these materials, my apologies. I do not collect rule books and do not have one, but they should be easy to obtain.

Bob Graham  

-----------------------------------------

From: pschmidt3013@...
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Monday July 13 2020 12:20:21PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Saluda timing circuits

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 04:41 AM, O Fenton Wells wrote:
Paul, I don't know if this will help but I took these photos in the Fall of 1984 on a trip to Saluda.  You may use them if they will help your article
Fenton

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 6:04 AM <pschmidt3013@...> wrote:
Just as a reminder, I'm looking for signal prints and other documentation on the timing circuits for Saluda Grade. My intent is to put this information together for a story in "Ties."

Any leads would be much appreciated. Thanks.
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA

 

 


 
--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
Thank you, Fenton. Those put me a step closer to the goal. Now I know there were cases and a signal at the start of circuit, as well as the sign, which I knew was there. And the signal was likely a fixed aspect yellow. 
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA


locked Re: Saluda timing circuits

O Fenton Wells
 

I thinkI still have the original slides and can provide a tiff image if needed.
Fenton

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 12:20 PM <pschmidt3013@...> wrote:
On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 04:41 AM, O Fenton Wells wrote:
Paul, I don't know if this will help but I took these photos in the Fall of 1984 on a trip to Saluda.  You may use them if they will help your article
Fenton

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 6:04 AM <pschmidt3013@...> wrote:
Just as a reminder, I'm looking for signal prints and other documentation on the timing circuits for Saluda Grade. My intent is to put this information together for a story in "Ties."

Any leads would be much appreciated. Thanks.
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA

 

 


 
--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
Thank you, Fenton. Those put me a step closer to the goal. Now I know there were cases and a signal at the start of circuit, as well as the sign, which I knew was there. And the signal was likely a fixed aspect yellow. 
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


locked Re: Saluda timing circuits

Paul Schmidt
 

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 04:41 AM, O Fenton Wells wrote:
Paul, I don't know if this will help but I took these photos in the Fall of 1984 on a trip to Saluda.  You may use them if they will help your article
Fenton

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 6:04 AM <pschmidt3013@...> wrote:
Just as a reminder, I'm looking for signal prints and other documentation on the timing circuits for Saluda Grade. My intent is to put this information together for a story in "Ties."

Any leads would be much appreciated. Thanks.
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA

 

 


 
--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
Thank you, Fenton. Those put me a step closer to the goal. Now I know there were cases and a signal at the start of circuit, as well as the sign, which I knew was there. And the signal was likely a fixed aspect yellow. 
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA


locked Re: Saluda timing circuits

O Fenton Wells
 

Paul, I don't know if this will help but I took these photos in the Fall of 1984 on a trip to Saluda.  You may use them if they will help your article
Fenton

On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 6:04 AM <pschmidt3013@...> wrote:
Just as a reminder, I'm looking for signal prints and other documentation on the timing circuits for Saluda Grade. My intent is to put this information together for a story in "Ties."

Any leads would be much appreciated. Thanks.
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


locked Re: Southern Crescent Consists

Jim Younger
 

Hello

Can anyone advise if there are any books on the Crescent after Amtrak started but BEFORE Amtrak took it over?

Jim Younger


On Jul 6, 2020, at 8:34 PM, Byron Osborn <bosborn10@...> wrote:

Thanks to all who have asked questions and provided answers for this topic.  This has been a great help to me.

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