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Pro[osed Discontinuance of Trs 21-22 Between Greensboro and Goldsboro, NC in 1953
George Eichelberger
A (perverse) benefit of having many train-off petitions and documents in the SRHA archives, is that they contain some of the best information on how trains were operated that the Southern wanted to eliminate (there were many in the post-war years).
The attached six pages* are part of a response to an internal request to document trains 21 and 22 between Greensboro and Goldsboro, NC. Although the trains were not discontinued at that time, the response provides rare information on Southern's secondary passenger services in Eastern NC. Ike *PS To reduce storage space on the .io group server, several "topics", mostly contain attachments or for events that have come and gone. More will be deleted as time permits. These attachments will be deleted in a few weeks.....
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Re: ETTs for the Atlanta-Birmingham line?
George Eichelberger
James and everyone:
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A large percentage of ALL SR ETTs are in the SRHA archives and have ben scanned. The intention has been to publish the entire collection, most likely on-line. If any SRHA members are interested, and capable, of cropping, de-skewing and organizing the scans, they can be published by operating division, years or whatever is most logical. If interested, send an email to archives@.... Better yet make plans to come to the June archives work session to see the work already done. Ike
On May 21, 2022, at 9:51 PM, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote: Hey all, does anyone happen to have scans of any employee timetables for the Atlanta-Birmingham line they would be willing to share?
Timetables for the 40s and 50s would be great, but I'll gladly take anything.
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ETTs for the Atlanta-Birmingham line?
James Walton
Hey all, does anyone happen to have scans of any employee timetables for the Atlanta-Birmingham line they would be willing to share? Timetables for the 40s and 50s would be great, but I'll gladly take anything.
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Re: Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s
Gary Bechdol
Hi, Sandy. The Tennessee Comptroller's Office has valuation maps of all railroads in Tennessee available for free download at: You will want to search Shelby County and Norfolk Southern Railway. Aerial photos and topo maps are available for free viewing only at: Gary E. Bechdol, PE Stone Mountain, GA Life Member: SHRA, AREMA
On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 8:55 AM John Stewart <bhamrails@...> wrote: Hello Sandy and all
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Re: Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s
Hello Sandy and all
Some suggestions: Try accessing Sanborn maps through the Library of Congress website Search: loc sanborn maps Memphis Try contacting the Memphis Rail and Trolley Museum, Mike Fleming, President and ask for sources; he’s a model railroader and knows a lot of folks in town Since you’re seeking 1960s info I’d suggest going to the Memphis and Shelby County Division of Planning and Development. For example they have online mapping and likely have older mapping as well Try: Historic Shelby County online historic aerial photos Hope these ideas are helpful John Stewart Birmingham AL
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Re: Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s
Alexander Smart
Hello
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I posted a request for information about Memphis City Yard in the 1960s yesterday. I forgot to mention that I would also be interested in Memphis employee timetables, freight train procedures and terminal books, lists of stations and sidings, training manuals, conductors’s time books, etc. These would allow me to plan accurate switching moves for individual industries with specific classified tracks and spurs, with car capacities for each, and to correctly block freights coming from Forrest and other yards. Finally the maps on the Condren site are not sufficient for my needs, but I’m finding it hard to access relevant Sanborn fire insurance maps from the UK. Any large scale map of that area in the 1960s would be welcome, or suggestions for access. I need streets, tracks and businesses shown with measurements if possible. I would of course be happy to meet appropriate expenses incurred by anyone willing to assist me in this project. Thanks again. Sandy Smart
On 20 May 2022, at 21:58, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@gmail.com> wrote:
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Re: Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s
Jason Greene
Mike Condron’s site is great but you already got that. I don’t know if Steve Forrest is on this group but he’d be another good source. He shot a lot of slide in that area a little later than your era but he’d know the area.
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Also, please do not confuse Donnie Dixon’s site and SRHA Archives as the same material. Donnie got his collection from his own sources and not from the archives. His scans are is own work. I look forward to seeing what you do with the layout. I grew up visiting my dad in Memphis in the 90s and early 2000s. Jason Greene
On May 20, 2022, at 4:24 PM, Alexander Smart <agfsmart@gmail.com> wrote:
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Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s
Alexander Smart
Hello
I am a SRHA member in Oban, Scotland, UK. I would like to find more information about the Southern freight operations around City Yard Memphis, Tennessee in the 1960s. This was inspired by Zone B of a Southern Railway Track Map and Terminal Survey, Memphis TN, May 1980, which I found on a Donnie Dixon link from the SRHA. I realise that Southern wasn’t a major player in the Memphis area, but it will allow me me interchange and transfer runs with, the IC, L&N, Frisco, Cotton Belt etc with appropriate locos and cars. I have been constructing a small switching layout in HO based on the above, but would like to rebuild it into a larger, more accurate layout with the correct track plan, correct industries, accurate locos and rolling stock. So far I have Memphis Furniture Mfg.Co.,Central Chemical, McDowell Industries Inc(Semmes Bag Co.), a team track and possibly Parts Inc. Getting photos of these industries has been almost impossible so far, even on the Internet. This is the area along the Southern branch up from Forrest Yard, from Sledge St. to Linden Street. However I need more information especially 1960s era photos of the exact area with industries, length of spurs, trackage etc. In addition I would welcome details of switching moves, transfer runs to other yards, locos used and rosters etc. Did Southern allow other roads to make transfer runs to City Yard or just to Forrest Yard? I would love to justify visits from other roads’ locos to my yard. I have been using Mike Condren’s Memphis Railroad Pages as a good source of maps and photos but have now exhausted this source. If any members live in the Memphis area or have a knowledge of the above, I would welcome any information or suggestions. Apologies for such a long post! Kind regards Sandy Smart #9023
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Bunker Hill Model Train Club June 4 WV First Summer Train Show, Event, wonderful, brand-new location 😉
Cohen Bob
This goes into the "planning ahead" module for you train show fans. I just got this the other day and since it's a sort of first time for this group at this location AND the historical importance of the location I am passing this along to all who receive this. It's still almost 4 weeks away but that'll be upon us in now time at all so prepare. Saturday, June 4th. BHMTC June 4 WV First Summer Train Show, Event, wonderful, brand-new location 😉
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Unsubscription - Gladhand1@comcast.net has left main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
George Eichelberger
As one of the SRHA people that handle the SR.io group, a notice comes to me whenever anyone joins or leaves the group.
This one, for long time SRHA member Dick Fisher, was a sad reminder that, last year, we lost an extremely knowledgable member that had a wealth of railroad experience….and was a really, really nice guy! I appreciate being reminded about Dick but sad to think again he is lost to us. The "Green Light” shined a little dimmer with his passing…. Ike PS Might Bill Schafer post Dick’s mention in the current TIES Magazine “I have finished my course” for all to see? Begin forwarded message: From: "main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Notification" <noreply@groups.io> Subject: [SouthernRailway] Unsubscription - Gladhand1@... has left main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Date: May 5, 2022 at 4:06:10 PM EDT This is to notify you that Dick Fisher <Gladhand1@...> has left your group main@SouthernRailway.groups.io.
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last minute reminder Hagerstown AG Center train show THIS Saturday, May 7, 9 am-1:30 pm
Cohen Bob
Just that last minute reminder to check out all the goodies available at the Hagerstown Ag Center train show on Saturday, May 7. There is usually an eclectic variety available at the show and it varies often from show to show. Models, parts, books, magazines, timetables, railroadianna - it's usually there. Come on by. There is an admission fee for entry which helps benefit the club that owns the Antietam station just a few miles south on Rt. 65. Hope to see you there! Bob Cohen
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Passenger Car List - Digest #2213
John Willis
Doug,
Do you have a sharper scan of this attached document to your post. When I enlarge it, it is not clear enough to read. Regards, John John C. Willis Mobile, Al
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Checking in and a question!
Ed Burnett
How are you doing, Can I ask a favor?
Edward
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Re: Mr. Marvin Black's Southern Diesel Research
George Eichelberger
If anyone, or any foundation, historical group... can fund someone to work at the archives to organize, index, scan, copy, upload to the NAS…whatever. We can promise books, articles, copies, access and indexes to what we have will come out a lot faster! (A quick look at the storage says we have more than 5TB of digital files at this point, a number that is growing all the time.)
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Ike
On Apr 24, 2022, at 2:32 PM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote: I like the big image files for archiving and research since you can read carbon copies, faded ink, and marginal notes in pencil or wax. But I agree that converting to 72 dpi and using optical character recognition to create a searchable PDF is great option for clear typewritten documents to share widely.
Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone On Apr 24, 2022, at 2:22 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
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Re: Mr. Marvin Black's Southern Diesel Research
I like the big image files for archiving and research since you can read carbon copies, faded ink, and marginal notes in pencil or wax. But I agree that converting to 72 dpi and using optical character recognition to create a searchable PDF is great option for clear typewritten documents to share widely.
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Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone
On Apr 24, 2022, at 2:22 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
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Re: Mr. Marvin Black's Southern Diesel Research
Thanks for sharing. A book acknowledging Marvin would be fitting tribute. He was a gem of a person and cared about preserving knowledge. He got me going on the A&Y and supported me in my efforts.
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Those letters already reflect the high regard for diesels in terms of cost, simplicity, and worker reductions. The decision was which diesel schedule was best. As much as I like the steam era, I would make the same business decision. Nostalgia and preservation are important for society but are NOT about business—cost and service are. Thanks for sharing! Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone
On Apr 24, 2022, at 12:02 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
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Re: Mr. Marvin Black's Southern Diesel Research
George Eichelberger
John:
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The example I posted shows only a fraction of the content in the material Marvin accumulated. (As a Sou-NS employee he had access to railroad files and most certainly volunteered when material was to be disposed of.) Anyone that attends the joint SRHA-L&NHS-RPM at TVRM in Sept/Oct is welcome to visit the archives building a get the $.05 tour. I’ve attached another example. Admittedly, it’s the kind of thing only a “hard core” modeler or railfan would care about but as you are both….. There are dozens of Diesel assignments, modifications, retirements, etc. in Marvin’s notebooks. The SR diesel books I am doing will include many photos but the text goes far beyond that. (A “teaser” for the FT Introduction was in TIES some time ago if anyone wants to see an example of what the books will look like. The draft was getting to nearly 500 pages (to large to print/sell because of cost) so it’ll be split into multiple books to get them done and available at a reasonable price.) Ike PS Re storage on the .io groups. We are in the process of putting a Networked Storage system in place. (Multiple disks, fully redundant, etc.) Anyone is: welcome to help defray its cost and help get it organized and our data loaded. Also the local area SRHA-L&NHS-TVRM network, including fiber optic connections between multiple TVRM buildings project is moving ahead..all opportunities to learn and help! We have not established who/how/costs to get to everything but the “NAS” will be our on-line repository, not the .io group. 
On Apr 24, 2022, at 1:27 PM, John Willis <willisjc@...> wrote: George, If all the information is of the same quality, Mr. Black's contribution is to be lauded in the highest terms. Thanks for sharing this sample. These jpg's can be resized to 800x600 with no discernible readability concerns. The file saving is immense. From megabytes to a couple hundred kilobytes. I use Irfanview, but most graphic viewers have similar resizing tools ( virtually every type of graphic is handled by this program with the ability to save into whichever format needed or wanted ). I also use this when posting graphics to reduce bandwidth for those who may not be able to easily receive large files (The courteous thing to do ). Large files are for archival uses and where storage capacity is of less or no concern. John John C. Willis
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Re: Mr. Marvin Black's Southern Diesel Research
C J Wyatt
Based on the Royal Palm pool, a good guess for the date of the document would be at least spring 1947 or later. My March 1947 passenger timetable does not show the train as being dieselized, but the August 1947 one does. When the Florida Sunbeam ended its seasonal run in April, its assigned F3 A-B sets likely went to the Royal Palm. Jack Wyatt
On Sunday, April 24, 2022, 12:03:11 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
We have not given sufficient "thanks" to the amazing amount of Southern Railway Diesel locomotive research material Marvin Black accumulated for his planned book on SR diesels. Among many other items, Marvin filled more than 100 3-ring binders with copies and original material, most of it original and certainly one of a kind, with letters and memos about every aspect of the railroad's transition to diesel poser, loco specifications, design changes, etc., etc. His material, along with the volume of material SRHA obtained from the Engineering, Mechanical Executive Departments and various shops is available as the series of Southern diesel books are written and for serious research. While Marvin did not have the opportunity to produce the book before his death, his name will appear as one of the books' authors. Anyone (seriously) interested is welcome to help with research and writing. Although the attached document is undated, it was obviously written in the early to mid 1940s when diesels were starting to replace steam. The style is "all business" and may not be of interest to many list members but I post it so everyone can see the "richness" of Marvin's efforts. Ike PS These are large (nearly 25 MB) attachments. To reduce space on the .io list, they will be deleted in a week or two
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Mr. Marvin Black's Southern Diesel Research
John Willis
George,
If all the information is of the same quality, Mr. Black's contribution is to be lauded in the highest terms. Thanks for sharing this sample. These jpg's can be resized to 800x600 with no discernible readability concerns. The file saving is immense. From megabytes to a couple hundred kilobytes. I use Irfanview, but most graphic viewers have similar resizing tools ( virtually every type of graphic is handled by this program with the ability to save into whichever format needed or wanted ). I also use this when posting graphics to reduce bandwidth for those who may not be able to easily receive large files (The courteous thing to do ). Large files are for archival uses and where storage capacity is of less or no concern. John John C. Willis
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Mr. Marvin Black's Southern Diesel Research
George Eichelberger
We have not given sufficient "thanks" to the amazing amount of Southern Railway Diesel locomotive research material Marvin Black accumulated for his planned book on SR diesels. Among many other items, Marvin filled more than 100 3-ring binders with copies and original material, most of it original and certainly one of a kind, with letters and memos about every aspect of the railroad's transition to diesel poser, loco specifications, design changes, etc., etc. His material, along with the volume of material SRHA obtained from the Engineering, Mechanical Executive Departments and various shops is available as the series of Southern diesel books are written and for serious research.
While Marvin did not have the opportunity to produce the book before his death, his name will appear as one of the books' authors. Anyone (seriously) interested is welcome to help with research and writing. Although the attached document is undated, it was obviously written in the early to mid 1940s when diesels were starting to replace steam. The style is "all business" and may not be of interest to many list members but I post it so everyone can see the "richness" of Marvin's efforts. Ike PS These are large (nearly 25 MB) attachments. To reduce space on the .io list, they will be deleted in a week or two
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