Date   

locked Southern Pullman passenger daily average 2-15-66

George Eichelberger
 

By 1966, the Southern wanted to discontinue most passenger services. The passenger "numbers" of all trains were closely watched and used for train-off petitions to the ICC and state PUCs. Here are two pages of passengers in "sleepers" for the first half of February, 1966. (Note: passenger counts are by Pullman "line number", not individual trains.)

Someone might look in the "Guides" and tell us which trains included these Pullman lines.

Ike


locked New .io group prices

George Eichelberger
 

I just saw a message explaining how .io group prices are going up.

As the Southern Railway group is well above the 200 subscriber list to remain a basic (sic free) service, it is grandfathered in but will need to stay below 1G total storage or pay a significant fee. As the group is not limited to SRHA members (about 50% are), I cannot propose that SRHA pay the fees. 

We will continue as we have been doing except attachments and overall memory usage will periodically be deleted. If there is anything posted that you would like a copy, please download it before it is deleted a few weeks after posting.

Ike
PS If anyone is interested in helping pay the fee to groups.io, please contact me off list


locked Central of Georgia Engine Repaint

Tom Holley
 

Hello, list.

Does anyone know when the Southern finished repainting the Central of Georgia engines into the tuxedo scheme with CG lettering?

Regards,

Tom Holley


locked Charlotte Rapid Transit Co. 1912

George Eichelberger
 

I expect it would be safe to say; the attached letter from the Charlotte Rapid Transit Co. has been sitting untouched in the Southern Railway Presidents' files since it was written in 1912. I think I am correct to say a segment of today's Charlotte light rail system uses the same route.

Ike


locked Re: Steel vs wood passenger cars Circa 1909

A&Y Dave in MD
 

That is interesting.  Thanks for sharing stuff on the early years.  I get the whole high hoods era attraction, but for some reason I'm just fascinated in the 1900-1940 era.   I'm reading a 1928 Car Builder's Cyclopedia (noting that R.M. Ettinger was a Southern VP and was listed as an author/consultant for that CBC) and the range of technology and materials used then are just interesting.

Dave

Tuesday, December 8, 2020, 4:40:20 PM, you wrote:


Note attached....By June of 1911, attitudes on all-steel cars had changed but the Pullman Co. could not supply enough steel cars. The Southern considered the "Birmingham Special" a first-class train, making an observation car a requirement.

Ike



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC


locked Re: Chip Car

George Eichelberger
 

Tom:

Those (converted wood rack) chip cars were discussed in a TIES article years ago. Maybe someone (Bill Schafer) can tell us which issue?

Ike

PS They never would have traveled to Columbus, GA. Unloading them required special equipment, a hydraulic ram that traveled beside the car and pushed the chips out of the other side. As ex wood racks, they had a solid floor. A chain hoist was used to open the lower sides of the car. Because of the way chips pack, when the side doors were removed, very few fell out. (That is why "modern" chip hoppers are wider at their side sills than at their top cords.) 

The operator rode the end of the ram as it moved along the car and pushed the chips out. Only Champion Paper in Canton (and Savannah?) had the equipment so they would never have gone to Columbus.


locked Re: Whale Oil and Southern Railway shipment information in the Fairfax Harrison period

George Eichelberger
 

Chris:

Remember, prior to WWII the Southern was basically an East-West railroad (note the 1921 v 1931 traffic map). A Southern route from Norfolk to Ivorydale (Cincy), OH would have been the most direct route. There are one or two more memos in the SRHA Presidents' files describing whale oil shipments from the S/S Pythia to P&G.

Ike


locked Re: Steel vs wood passenger cars Circa 1909

George Eichelberger
 

Note attached....By June of 1911, attitudes on all-steel cars had changed but the Pullman Co. could not supply enough steel cars. The Southern considered the "Birmingham Special" a first-class train, making an observation car a requirement.

Ike


locked Steel vs wood passenger cars Circa 1909

George Eichelberger
 

There are a number of memos and letters in the SRHA archives that discuss the move from wood to all-steel passenger equipment. Running multiple sections was already becoming a problem simply because of increasing passenger traffic.

Ike






locked Re: Whale Oil and Southern Railway shipment information in the Fairfax Harrison period

 

Ike,

Fascinating stuff. I did find several versions of the SS Pythia and whale oil shipping on this list, including an SS Pythia that supposedly ran from 1915 to 1928 under the A/S Dominion Whaling Ltd, Sandefjord. In service as cargo ship.... Link is here, although this looks like someone's personally built timeline that would need more verification. https://www.preceden.com/timelines/235552-the-whale-oil-factory-ships

Now this IS a verified source. The only buyer of consequence in the U.S. of whale oil from Norway was P&G in 1934 according to a Norwegian letter to the U.S. Secretary of State from that year. Interesting. https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1934v02/d553

You can find papers and links about P&G's use of whale oil in the hydrogenation of whale oils (and other types of oils) for products including margarine and cosmetics (Both of which P&G made and still makes). I've seen an unverified source on whale oil being a minor ingredient (less than half of one percent) in the original Ivory Soap (one of P&G's flagship brands). A P&G expert I am not though. So, that bears some more proper research if anything is to be done with the information.

But, one thing is clear, P&G brought in thousands of shipments of whale oil to the U.S., including to its Ivorydale/Cincinnati plant from Port Ivory on Staten Island. The Port Ivory plant was owned by P&G. You can find references to the trade in an ICC petition P&G filed against the B&O in 1926 about the whale oil shipment rates based on the shipment of 160 whale oil cars. Link here: https://books.google.com/books?id=zZbHY9_LWKkC&pg=PA177&lpg=PA177&dq=%22port+ivory%22+Procter+and+gamble+%22whale+oil%22&source=bl&ots=SJofjsn7ft&sig=ACfU3U0RN8gyIquFiBYLZ30oe3xCmOh4BA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjWmpjc9bztAhVFWqwKHfaHAxMQ6AEwD3oECBEQAg#v=onepage&q=%22port%20ivory%22%20Procter%20and%20gamble%20%22whale%20oil%22&f=false

If the Southern was involved in shipping whale oil too...I wonder what the routing was. Interesting. The SRHA archives deliver a fine mystery here that can be solved. I'll keep looking into this one a bit.

-Chris Mayhew
SRHA member
Cincinnati, Ohio


locked Re: Whale Oil and Southern Railway shipment information in the Fairfax Harrison period

 

Thanks Jack! I have added that page to my list now. Google needs a librarian, when I tried SS even S/S Pythia all I got was the info I put up. 

That and how whale oil is bad .

Todd Pearson 


On Dec 7, 2020, at 1:23 AM, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:


Almost certainly tank cars.  General American Tank Car Journeys published by General American Tank Car Corporation in 1931 has a whole page (P. 99) devoted to 'whale oil'. From that page: "whole ship loads of whale oil are transferred by tank cars to inland soap manufacturers."

Jack Wyatt

On Sunday, December 6, 2020, 11:10:18 PM EST, Thunder via groups.io <t_pearson1212@...> wrote:


I would assume box cars as well, unless in its oil form maybe a tank? I looked for a ship named Pythia, none from that era, however there was a shipping company out of Glasgow Scotland that had ships used to process whale oil. It didn’t give much information on how the oil was processed or transported on the ship. If it had been hydrogenated it would be in a white solid substance. Perfect for a box car.

I am wondering if there are any publicity photos from this? 


Todd Pearson 


locked Re: Whale Oil and Southern Railway shipment information in the Fairfax Harrison period

C J Wyatt
 

Almost certainly tank cars.  General American Tank Car Journeys published by General American Tank Car Corporation in 1931 has a whole page (P. 99) devoted to 'whale oil'. From that page: "whole ship loads of whale oil are transferred by tank cars to inland soap manufacturers."

Jack Wyatt

On Sunday, December 6, 2020, 11:10:18 PM EST, Thunder via groups.io <t_pearson1212@...> wrote:


I would assume box cars as well, unless in its oil form maybe a tank? I looked for a ship named Pythia, none from that era, however there was a shipping company out of Glasgow Scotland that had ships used to process whale oil. It didn’t give much information on how the oil was processed or transported on the ship. If it had been hydrogenated it would be in a white solid substance. Perfect for a box car.

I am wondering if there are any publicity photos from this? 


Todd Pearson 


locked Re: Whale Oil and Southern Railway shipment information in the Fairfax Harrison period

C J Wyatt
 

A ship named Pythia is in this list:

Donaldson Line (theshipslist.com)

It was sold to Norway in 1911 and converted to a whale factory ship.

Jack Wyatt






On Sunday, December 6, 2020, 11:10:18 PM EST, Thunder via groups.io <t_pearson1212@...> wrote:


I would assume box cars as well, unless in its oil form maybe a tank? I looked for a ship named Pythia, none from that era, however there was a shipping company out of Glasgow Scotland that had ships used to process whale oil. It didn’t give much information on how the oil was processed or transported on the ship. If it had been hydrogenated it would be in a white solid substance. Perfect for a box car.

I am wondering if there are any publicity photos from this? 


Todd Pearson 


locked Re: Whale Oil and Southern Railway shipment information in the Fairfax Harrison period

John Stewart
 

Hi Ike

Whale oil

Margerine and brake fluid

Who knew?

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL


locked Re: Whale Oil and Southern Railway shipment information in the Fairfax Harrison period

 

I would assume box cars as well, unless in its oil form maybe a tank? I looked for a ship named Pythia, none from that era, however there was a shipping company out of Glasgow Scotland that had ships used to process whale oil. It didn’t give much information on how the oil was processed or transported on the ship. If it had been hydrogenated it would be in a white solid substance. Perfect for a box car.

I am wondering if there are any publicity photos from this? 


Todd Pearson 


locked Re: [SOUmodeler] Waltzers E-7 HO scale diesel. What radius track can it handle?

Doug Alexander
 

Charlie, I believe that they are designed to do so, but they’ll look better on broader curves. 

Doug Alexander

Sent from my portable UNIVAC Computational Machine.

On Dec 6, 2020, at 3:09 PM, charliecatsrr charliecatsrr@... [SOUTHERNmodeler] <SOUTHERNmodeler@...> wrote:

  

Does anyone out there know if a Walthers HO scale E-7 diesel locomotive will negotiate a 18” radius curve?
Thanks,
J. C. Paschal, 
modeling the Southern in the 40s & 50 s

__._,_.___

Posted by: charliecatsrr <charliecatsrr@...>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1)

.

__,_._,___

--
Doug Alexander
Atlanta


locked Whale Oil and Southern Railway shipment information in the Fairfax Harrison period

George Eichelberger
 

Presidents' Files Box 403 contains files that discuss shipments, and revenues, for every category of freight the Southern carried in the early 1920s. Manufactured items, from the North to the South, agriculture products and raw materials South to North and imports and exports, mostly through the ports of Norfolk and Charleston. (The archives contain extensive material (and photos) of the coal pier at Charleston that certainly warrant a TIES article..anyone interested in helping?)

The attached is somewhat unusual......
There are several documents describing shipments from the S/S "Pythia" from Norfolk to Procter & Gamble at Ivorydale (Cincinnati), Ohio. The 6-12-1923 memo describes a shipment of 137 (box?) cars carrying 7,642,100 lbs. of whale oil in three trains.

Ike

The SRHA Archives Presidents' Files Finding Aids include about 70 spreadsheets that cover virtually every SR Executive Dept. box and 17,000! files that date from the formation of SRS to the N&W merger. When we can organize archives work sessions again, reviewing and updating the finding aids is a long-term project. (In addition to SRHA and TVRM volunteers, we could hire local university students if funding could be found.)
 


locked Re: Louisville Shop traveling crane blue print

Charles Powell
 

I see the letter was from the fifth vice president to the fourth vice president. Was there a sixth, seventh, and eighth vice president. :-)


locked Re: Louisville Shop traveling crane blue print

George Eichelberger
 

John:

The original scan is too large to post on the .io site but if any SRHA members would like a hi-res copy of the drawing, send me an email at archives@... and I’ll send a link to Google Drive.

Ike



On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:28 AM, John Stewart <jstew@...> wrote:

Hi folks

Yes sir, Ike, that is neat, and a long while back.

I love cranes.

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL







locked Re: Louisville Shop traveling crane blue print

John Stewart
 

Hi folks

Yes sir, Ike, that is neat, and a long while back.

I love cranes.

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL

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