1. main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
  2. Messages
   Date   
locked Re: Everett Young and Tom Smart photos

Michael Shirey
 

George, the photo you attached. Is that the bridge from Cincy to Ludlow? 

Michael Shirey
PCRRHS and SRHA Member


On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 4:07 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Michael:

You are certainly correct that more needs to be researched, written and presented on the Southern’s Louisville-E. St Louis line. The SRHA archives contain photos, contracts, maps and drawings of many of the (L,E&StL) line’s features. The Louisville “By Location” file includes 5.67 GB of scans with 227 drawings, documents and photos.

With luck, we will be able to open the archives at TVRM for research this summer. Come, look at the files and think about working on an article for TIES and that presentation.

Ike

PS In addition to the Louisville bridge photos (an example is attached), there is a fabulous series of photos of the rebuilding of the Ohio Rive bridge from Ludlow to Cincinnati. If anyone has experience with bridge engineering or construction, they may be interested in those photos in the archives.




On Jan 21, 2021, at 3:17 PM, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:

 Thanks guys! So sorry to hear about Tom's passing. So with this new information, whom has the photos of Toms'?

 My only intention was to see if they had more photos to share of Louisville, KY., New Albany, and Duncan hill, Indiana and parts west of there on the East District line. There is hardly no reference about this section of line anywhere on the web. There photos in that book are outstanding and I am very glad that part of Southern's history was captured.

 I have family down in that area of indiana. So when visiting as a kid I remember them running there in Tuxedo paint in the early 1980's. I just want to put together more factual information to share with others on that area of the Southern. Maybe even possibly a future SRHA Convention, who knows.  

locked Re: Everett Young and Tom Smart photos

George Eichelberger
 

Michael:

You are certainly correct that more needs to be researched, written and presented on the Southern’s Louisville-E. St Louis line. The SRHA archives contain photos, contracts, maps and drawings of many of the (L,E&StL) line’s features. The Louisville “By Location” file includes 5.67 GB of scans with 227 drawings, documents and photos.

With luck, we will be able to open the archives at TVRM for research this summer. Come, look at the files and think about working on an article for TIES and that presentation.

Ike

PS In addition to the Louisville bridge photos (an example is attached), there is a fabulous series of photos of the rebuilding of the Ohio Rive bridge from Ludlow to Cincinnati. If anyone has experience with bridge engineering or construction, they may be interested in those photos in the archives.




On Jan 21, 2021, at 3:17 PM, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:

 Thanks guys! So sorry to hear about Tom's passing. So with this new information, whom has the photos of Toms'?

 My only intention was to see if they had more photos to share of Louisville, KY., New Albany, and Duncan hill, Indiana and parts west of there on the East District line. There is hardly no reference about this section of line anywhere on the web. There photos in that book are outstanding and I am very glad that part of Southern's history was captured.

 I have family down in that area of indiana. So when visiting as a kid I remember them running there in Tuxedo paint in the early 1980's. I just want to put together more factual information to share with others on that area of the Southern. Maybe even possibly a future SRHA Convention, who knows.  

locked Re: Everett Young and Tom Smart photos

Michael Shirey
 

 Thanks guys! So sorry to hear about Tom's passing. So with this new information, whom has the photos of Toms'?

 My only intention was to see if they had more photos to share of Louisville, KY., New Albany, and Duncan hill, Indiana and parts west of there on the East District line. There is hardly no reference about this section of line anywhere on the web. There photos in that book are outstanding and I am very glad that part of Southern's history was captured.

 I have family down in that area of indiana. So when visiting as a kid I remember them running there in Tuxedo paint in the early 1980's. I just want to put together more factual information to share with others on that area of the Southern. Maybe even possibly a future SRHA Convention, who knows.  
locked Re: Big Reds

John Stewart
 

Greetings to Mr Fisher!

 

I assume WABCO is Westinghouse?

 

John

 

John R Stewart

www.bhamrails.info

205-901-3790

 

image004

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Tuesday, January 19, 2021 1:24 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Big Reds

 

If I may introduce SRHA member Dick Fisher……

 

After a career with WABCO and Southern Railway, Dick is THE expert on air brakes and all manner of hardware.

 

Ike

 

 

On Jan 19, 2021, at 2:03 PM, Dick Fisher <Gladhand1@...> wrote:

 

The P-S cars were Big Reds and the Greenville cars were Little Big Reds.

Dick

On 1/19/2021 1:17 PM, George Eichelberger wrote:

We need to confirm the term was not more broadly used but here is a SR memo describing Specification F-127 (Sou 75000-75799) and F-200 (Sou 75800-76599) 100-T, 49’ 4003 cu ft hoppers as “Big Reds”.

 

The term “little Big Reds” was used for different (?) car series.

 

Ike

 

PS The easiest way for us to do research is with scanned versions of our archives files. When we can get back to our work sessions, that will be an important project! (Our next question will be who by and how can they be accessed?)

 

<1968-1-16 Big Red hoppers to be scrapped copy.jpeg>

 

 

 

 but I believe both the “little big reds” and “big reds” referred to specific groups of.

 

On Jan 19, 2021, at 12:06 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

 

Speaking of coal cars, of which I had zero interaction with during my time at the Southern, and rarely photographed afterwards, there is the question of the "Big Reds".  Does the term refer to all the larger coal hoppers?  Or only to the 4-bay Greenvilles?  Or the 6-bay Pullmans?  Or?  I seem to recall seeing the term on one or more of the NCP folders I sorted at the archives.

 

Thanks

 

Scott Chatfield

 

 
locked Re: Everett Young and Tom Smart photos

Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...>
 

I think Everett Young lives in Kentucky, maybe Pikeville?

W Calloway


On Jan 20, 2021, at 11:34 AM, Curt Fortenberry <curtfortenberry@...> wrote:



Agree.  Tom left the hobby in the early 70' and disposed of his collection, then got back into it later in the 70's.  I think RR Wallin got most of it and sold a lot when he ran his auction letter (way before ebay;-).

Curt Fortenberry
locked Re: Everett Young and Tom Smart photos

Curt Fortenberry
 


Agree.  Tom left the hobby in the early 70' and disposed of his collection, then got back into it later in the 70's.  I think RR Wallin got most of it and sold a lot when he ran his auction letter (way before ebay;-).

Curt Fortenberry
locked Re: Everett Young and Tom Smart photos

Stuart Thayer
 

Michael,

If you are looking for the Tom Smart from Louisville KY he passed away probably 30+ years ago.

Stuart Thayer


On Jan 20, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:


 Hello all, I am looking for Everett Young or Tom Smart if anyone knows how to reach them.  They are mentioned in the Morning sun book, Southern Railway in color VOL.4. pages 6-16 of the book. They had some really nice photos of the Southern East district line. I would like to inquire to see if they have any other photos or information on this line. 

Michael Shirey
PCRRHS and SRHA Member
locked Everett Young and Tom Smart photos

Michael Shirey
 

 Hello all, I am looking for Everett Young or Tom Smart if anyone knows how to reach them.  They are mentioned in the Morning sun book, Southern Railway in color VOL.4. pages 6-16 of the book. They had some really nice photos of the Southern East district line. I would like to inquire to see if they have any other photos or information on this line. 

Michael Shirey
PCRRHS and SRHA Member
locked Re: Big Reds

David Payne
 

 
Mr. J. D. Howard, "Super Chief" on the Georgia Division, referred to them as "Big Reds" and "Little Reds" with no 'Big' in the reference to the Greenville cars.  Perhaps he just got tired of saying "Little Big" in the reference or found it too contradictory?
David Payne
 
 

In a message dated 1/19/2021 2:24:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, geichelberger@... writes:
 
If I may introduce SRHA member Dick Fisher……
 
After a career with WABCO and Southern Railway, Dick is THE expert on air brakes and all manner of hardware.
 
Ike


On Jan 19, 2021, at 2:03 PM, Dick Fisher <Gladhand1@...> wrote:

 

The P-S cars were Big Reds and the Greenville cars were Little Big Reds.

Dick

On 1/19/2021 1:17 PM, George Eichelberger wrote:
We need to confirm the term was not more broadly used but here is a SR memo describing Specification F-127 (Sou 75000-75799) and F-200 (Sou 75800-76599) 100-T, 49’ 4003 cu ft hoppers as “Big Reds”.
 
The term “little Big Reds” was used for different (?) car series.
 
Ike
 
PS The easiest way for us to do research is with scanned versions of our archives files. When we can get back to our work sessions, that will be an important project! (Our next question will be who by and how can they be accessed?)
 
<1968-1-16 Big Red hoppers to be scrapped copy.jpeg>
 

 
 but I believe both the “little big reds” and “big reds” referred to specific groups of.

On Jan 19, 2021, at 12:06 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

 
Speaking of coal cars, of which I had zero interaction with during my time at the Southern, and rarely photographed afterwards, there is the question of the "Big Reds".  Does the term refer to all the larger coal hoppers?  Or only to the 4-bay Greenvilles?  Or the 6-bay Pullmans?  Or?  I seem to recall seeing the term on one or more of the NCP folders I sorted at the archives.
 
Thanks
 
 
Scott Chatfield
locked Re: Big Reds

George Eichelberger
 

If I may introduce SRHA member Dick Fisher……

After a career with WABCO and Southern Railway, Dick is THE expert on air brakes and all manner of hardware.

Ike


On Jan 19, 2021, at 2:03 PM, Dick Fisher <Gladhand1@...> wrote:

The P-S cars were Big Reds and the Greenville cars were Little Big Reds.

Dick

On 1/19/2021 1:17 PM, George Eichelberger wrote:
We need to confirm the term was not more broadly used but here is a SR memo describing Specification F-127 (Sou 75000-75799) and F-200 (Sou 75800-76599) 100-T, 49’ 4003 cu ft hoppers as “Big Reds”.

The term “little Big Reds” was used for different (?) car series.

Ike

PS The easiest way for us to do research is with scanned versions of our archives files. When we can get back to our work sessions, that will be an important project! (Our next question will be who by and how can they be accessed?)

<1968-1-16 Big Red hoppers to be scrapped copy.jpeg>



 but I believe both the “little big reds” and “big reds” referred to specific groups of.

On Jan 19, 2021, at 12:06 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

Speaking of coal cars, of which I had zero interaction with during my time at the Southern, and rarely photographed afterwards, there is the question of the "Big Reds".  Does the term refer to all the larger coal hoppers?  Or only to the 4-bay Greenvilles?  Or the 6-bay Pullmans?  Or?  I seem to recall seeing the term on one or more of the NCP folders I sorted at the archives.

Thanks

Scott Chatfield
locked Re: Big Reds

Dick Fisher <Gladhand1@...>
 

The P-S cars were Big Reds and the Greenville cars were Little Big Reds.

Dick

On 1/19/2021 1:17 PM, George Eichelberger wrote:
We need to confirm the term was not more broadly used but here is a SR memo describing Specification F-127 (Sou 75000-75799) and F-200 (Sou 75800-76599) 100-T, 49’ 4003 cu ft hoppers as “Big Reds”.

The term “little Big Reds” was used for different (?) car series.

Ike

PS The easiest way for us to do research is with scanned versions of our archives files. When we can get back to our work sessions, that will be an important project! (Our next question will be who by and how can they be accessed?)





 but I believe both the “little big reds” and “big reds” referred to specific groups of.

On Jan 19, 2021, at 12:06 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

Speaking of coal cars, of which I had zero interaction with during my time at the Southern, and rarely photographed afterwards, there is the question of the "Big Reds".  Does the term refer to all the larger coal hoppers?  Or only to the 4-bay Greenvilles?  Or the 6-bay Pullmans?  Or?  I seem to recall seeing the term on one or more of the NCP folders I sorted at the archives.

Thanks

Scott Chatfield
locked Re: Big Reds

George Eichelberger
 

We need to confirm the term was not more broadly used but here is a SR memo describing Specification F-127 (Sou 75000-75799) and F-200 (Sou 75800-76599) 100-T, 49’ 4003 cu ft hoppers as “Big Reds”.

The term “little Big Reds” was used for different (?) car series.

Ike

PS The easiest way for us to do research is with scanned versions of our archives files. When we can get back to our work sessions, that will be an important project! (Our next question will be who by and how can they be accessed?)





 but I believe both the “little big reds” and “big reds” referred to specific groups of.

On Jan 19, 2021, at 12:06 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

Speaking of coal cars, of which I had zero interaction with during my time at the Southern, and rarely photographed afterwards, there is the question of the "Big Reds".  Does the term refer to all the larger coal hoppers?  Or only to the 4-bay Greenvilles?  Or the 6-bay Pullmans?  Or?  I seem to recall seeing the term on one or more of the NCP folders I sorted at the archives.

Thanks

Scott Chatfield
locked Big Reds

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Speaking of coal cars, of which I had zero interaction with during my time at the Southern, and rarely photographed afterwards, there is the question of the "Big Reds".  Does the term refer to all the larger coal hoppers?  Or only to the 4-bay Greenvilles?  Or the 6-bay Pullmans?  Or?  I seem to recall seeing the term on one or more of the NCP folders I sorted at the archives.

Thanks

Scott Chatfield
locked Re: The Interstate Coal Fleet: 1960-1966?

Evan Miller
 

Thanks for the help! It looks like it'd be fine to mix in some black and repainted INT cars in a 60's era Middlesboro based mine run I'm considering modeling. Being able to mix in Southern Black, Transitional Brown, and Block Brown, all with variety of different types of cars would make for a great train to model! Of course the hardest part of this project is deciding on a year to determine which cars to include and which to leave out.

In regard to the Interstate offside hoppers, are there any estimates of how many Southern assigned to INT and how many received the side extensions? I'd love to model a few of the extended side cars. I also noticed there was a shot on Appalachian Railroad Modeling of a normal Interstate offset, but it had peaked ends? I wonder if Southern added them when they were reassigned to the Interstate? Speaking of extended side cars, I've also seen a shot of an extended side war-emergency rebuild.  K4 Decals now offers a set designed for the Interstate offsets: https://k4decals.com/collections/hopper-decals/products/interstate-railroad-offset-twin-hopper-white-decal-inth2

About the Saluda runaway, the last one was November 14, 1971. I've seen some photos of it on some Southern FB groups. While I couldn't pick out any Interstate cars, I did notice a Central of Georgia rebuilt war-emergency in the mess. The fact that there many Interstate cars in this wreck is proof that even after the Transloader came on the scene, some where still roaming the system. I wonder if these cars where Yellow Balls that escaped or just general service cars that where never Yellow Balls to begin with?

Bluford Shops has announced they are doing a run of permanently coupled war emergency rebuilds in N Scale.  http://bluford-shops.com/bluford_93_035.htm

-Evan Miller
locked Re: The Interstate Coal Fleet: 1960-1966?

Daniel Bourque
 

Ike,

That rationale for joining the cars makes sense to me. As far as the name goes, I guess “articulated” was a way to make it sound more exciting than it really was ;-)

Dan


On Jan 17, 2021, at 10:29 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

 Dan:

I don’t think the concept of joining two 50-T hoppers was based on reduced costs. After the “Big John” case was settled (won), the Southern wanted to offer 100-T tariffs on other commodities. With few 100-T open hoppers available, permanently coupling two 50-T cars was an expedient. More research is needed as no drawing of the drawbars (if used) has been located.

In any case, the paired cars did not last very long. Here is another snippet from a different spreadsheet. Photos of the “articulated”* cars are not common. If anyone has any they can send, we have plenty enough information to do a TIES article.

Ike

*”articulated” is not really a correct term, "permanently coupled” is a better description IMHO.

Sou
102819

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102820

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102821

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102822

4/12/1968

articulated hopper car
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled February 1968"

Sou
102825

4/12/1968

articulated hopper car
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled February 1968"

Sou
102825

4/12/1968

articulated hopper car
dismantled during February, 1968

Sou
102826

2/19/1968

articulated hopper car
Dismantled during January 1968

Sou
102829

11/1/1967

articulated hopper car
Authorized for retirement at Charlotte

Sou
102830

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102831

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102832

12/1/1967

articulated hopper car
Authorized for retirement at Sevier, TN

Sou
102832

2/19/1968

articulated hopper car
Dismantled during January 1968

Sou
102837

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102839

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102842

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102844

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102848

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
In Report of Equipment Dismantled December, 1967

Sou
102848

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
dismantled during December, 1967

Sou
102849

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102851

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102854

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102857

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102858

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102858

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement

Sou
102859

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102863

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102864

12/1/1967

articulated hopper car
Authorized for retirement at Sevier, TN

Sou
102864

2/19/1968

articulated hopper car
dismantled during January, 1968

Sou
102865

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102866

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102868

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102872

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102878

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102879

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102880

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102880

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102880

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement

Sou
102888

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102893

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102893

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement

Sou
102897

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
In Report of Equipment Dismantled December, 1967

Sou
102900

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
In Report of Equipment Dismantled November, 1967


On Jan 17, 2021, at 10:55 AM, Daniel Bourque <deltabourque@...> wrote:

What I haven’t been able to figure out with these “articulated” cars is how they were coupled. I would assume a drawbar, but photos aren’t clear. How do you designate an A and B end with brake wheels on both? I know the idea was to cut costs for shipping because it was technically a single-car movement, but still a strange car. 

I’ve seen pictures of these cars made from either ex-Interstate hoppers (similar to AAR rib-side hoppers) or rebuilt war-emergency hoppers with the diagonal bracing. Paint schemes also seem pretty varied including both black and red. Some cars have the big split letters, and some have “SOUTHERN” on the “left” car and the car number on the right. 

Dan


On Jan 17, 2021, at 7:33 AM, sgwarner88@... wrote:

Those hybrids were strange looking.   Around ‘65 or so I recall seeing one standing under the Gay St. viaduct, and asked a Sou. Carman what they were.  His answer was less than printable, likely because I suspect that they would have a double AB valve and brake systems (Plus eight journals) for one car.  I seem to recall that it was a combination of off-set hoppers, permanently coupled.  The split lettering was an eye-caitching.

locked Re: The Interstate Coal Fleet: 1960-1966?

Jason Greene
 

It was my understanding that some of the cars retained their knuckles between the two cars and the cut levers removed. 


Jason Greene 

On Jan 17, 2021, at 12:29 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Dan:

I don’t think the concept of joining two 50-T hoppers was based on reduced costs. After the “Big John” case was settled (won), the Southern wanted to offer 100-T tariffs on other commodities. With few 100-T open hoppers available, permanently coupling two 50-T cars was an expedient. More research is needed as no drawing of the drawbars (if used) has been located.

In any case, the paired cars did not last very long. Here is another snippet from a different spreadsheet. Photos of the “articulated”* cars are not common. If anyone has any they can send, we have plenty enough information to do a TIES article.

Ike

*”articulated” is not really a correct term, "permanently coupled” is a better description IMHO.

Sou
102819

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102820

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102821

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102822

4/12/1968

articulated hopper car
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled February 1968"

Sou
102825

4/12/1968

articulated hopper car
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled February 1968"

Sou
102825

4/12/1968

articulated hopper car
dismantled during February, 1968

Sou
102826

2/19/1968

articulated hopper car
Dismantled during January 1968

Sou
102829

11/1/1967

articulated hopper car
Authorized for retirement at Charlotte

Sou
102830

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102831

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102832

12/1/1967

articulated hopper car
Authorized for retirement at Sevier, TN

Sou
102832

2/19/1968

articulated hopper car
Dismantled during January 1968

Sou
102837

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102839

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102842

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102844

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102848

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
In Report of Equipment Dismantled December, 1967

Sou
102848

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
dismantled during December, 1967

Sou
102849

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102851

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102854

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102857

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102858

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102858

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement

Sou
102859

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102863

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102864

12/1/1967

articulated hopper car
Authorized for retirement at Sevier, TN

Sou
102864

2/19/1968

articulated hopper car
dismantled during January, 1968

Sou
102865

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102866

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102868

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102872

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102878

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102879

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102880

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102880

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102880

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement

Sou
102888

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102893

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102893

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement

Sou
102897

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
In Report of Equipment Dismantled December, 1967

Sou
102900

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
In Report of Equipment Dismantled November, 1967


On Jan 17, 2021, at 10:55 AM, Daniel Bourque <deltabourque@...> wrote:

What I haven’t been able to figure out with these “articulated” cars is how they were coupled. I would assume a drawbar, but photos aren’t clear. How do you designate an A and B end with brake wheels on both? I know the idea was to cut costs for shipping because it was technically a single-car movement, but still a strange car. 

I’ve seen pictures of these cars made from either ex-Interstate hoppers (similar to AAR rib-side hoppers) or rebuilt war-emergency hoppers with the diagonal bracing. Paint schemes also seem pretty varied including both black and red. Some cars have the big split letters, and some have “SOUTHERN” on the “left” car and the car number on the right. 

Dan


On Jan 17, 2021, at 7:33 AM, sgwarner88@... wrote:

Those hybrids were strange looking.   Around ‘65 or so I recall seeing one standing under the Gay St. viaduct, and asked a Sou. Carman what they were.  His answer was less than printable, likely because I suspect that they would have a double AB valve and brake systems (Plus eight journals) for one car.  I seem to recall that it was a combination of off-set hoppers, permanently coupled.  The split lettering was an eye-caitching.

locked Re: The Interstate Coal Fleet: 1960-1966?

Ed Mims
 

I don’t know what was used by the Southern to permanently couple (“articulate”) cars but recall that American Steel Foundries (ASF) offered (and may still) a cast steel connector for use between two cars to replace the couplers. This connector allowed for horizontal and vertical  curves to the same degree as conventional couplers. This is what I would guess was used.

 

For cars with two handbrakes (one on each end) the Interchange Rules and FRA rules require that the car owner designate the “A” and “B” ends with stenciling.  

 

For what it might be worth…

 

Ed Mims

Jacksonville, FL
locked Re: The Interstate Coal Fleet: 1960-1966?

Dick Fisher <Gladhand1@...>
 

50-ton aggregate cars were also articulated.

Dick Fisher

On 1/17/2021 12:29 PM, George Eichelberger wrote:
Dan: cars
I don’t think the concept of joining two 50-T hoppers was based on reduced costs. After the “Big John” case was settled (won), the Southern wanted to offer 100-T tariffs on other commodities. With few 100-T open hoppers available, permanently coupling two 50-T cars was an expedient. More research is needed as no drawing of the drawbars (if used) has been located.

In any case, the paired cars did not last very long. Here is another snippet from a different spreadsheet. Photos of the “articulated”* cars are not common. If anyone has any they can send, we have plenty enough information to do a TIES article.

Ike

*”articulated” is not really a correct term, "permanently coupled” is a better description IMHO.

Sou
102819

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102820

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102821

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102822

4/12/1968

articulated hopper car
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled February 1968"

Sou
102825

4/12/1968

articulated hopper car
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled February 1968"

Sou
102825

4/12/1968

articulated hopper car
dismantled during February, 1968

Sou
102826

2/19/1968

articulated hopper car
Dismantled during January 1968

Sou
102829

11/1/1967

articulated hopper car
Authorized for retirement at Charlotte

Sou
102830

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102831

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102832

12/1/1967

articulated hopper car
Authorized for retirement at Sevier, TN

Sou
102832

2/19/1968

articulated hopper car
Dismantled during January 1968

Sou
102837

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102839

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102842

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102844

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102848

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
In Report of Equipment Dismantled December, 1967

Sou
102848

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
dismantled during December, 1967

Sou
102849

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102851

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102854

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102857

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102858

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102858

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement

Sou
102859

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102863

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102864

12/1/1967

articulated hopper car
Authorized for retirement at Sevier, TN

Sou
102864

2/19/1968

articulated hopper car
dismantled during January, 1968

Sou
102865

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102866

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102868

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102872

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102878

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102879

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102880

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102880

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102880

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement

Sou
102888

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102893

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102893

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement

Sou
102897

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
In Report of Equipment Dismantled December, 1967

Sou
102900

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
In Report of Equipment Dismantled November, 1967


On Jan 17, 2021, at 10:55 AM, Daniel Bourque <deltabourque@...> wrote:

What I haven’t been able to figure out with these “articulated” cars is how they were coupled. I would assume a drawbar, but photos aren’t clear. How do you designate an A and B end with brake wheels on both? I know the idea was to cut costs for shipping because it was technically a single-car movement, but still a strange car. 

I’ve seen pictures of these cars made from either ex-Interstate hoppers (similar to AAR rib-side hoppers) or rebuilt war-emergency hoppers with the diagonal bracing. Paint schemes also seem pretty varied including both black and red. Some cars have the big split letters, and some have “SOUTHERN” on the “left” car and the car number on the right. 

Dan


On Jan 17, 2021, at 7:33 AM, sgwarner88@... wrote:

Those hybrids were strange looking.   Around ‘65 or so I recall seeing one standing under the Gay St. viaduct, and asked a Sou. Carman what they were.  His answer was less than printable, likely because I suspect that they would have a double AB valve and brake systems (Plus eight journals) for one car.  I seem to recall that it was a combination of off-set hoppers, permanently coupled.  The split lettering was an eye-caitching.

locked Re: The Interstate Coal Fleet: 1960-1966?

George Eichelberger
 

Dan:

I don’t think the concept of joining two 50-T hoppers was based on reduced costs. After the “Big John” case was settled (won), the Southern wanted to offer 100-T tariffs on other commodities. With few 100-T open hoppers available, permanently coupling two 50-T cars was an expedient. More research is needed as no drawing of the drawbars (if used) has been located.

In any case, the paired cars did not last very long. Here is another snippet from a different spreadsheet. Photos of the “articulated”* cars are not common. If anyone has any they can send, we have plenty enough information to do a TIES article.

Ike

*”articulated” is not really a correct term, "permanently coupled” is a better description IMHO.

Sou
102819

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102820

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102821

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102822

4/12/1968

articulated hopper car
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled February 1968"

Sou
102825

4/12/1968

articulated hopper car
In "Report of Equipment Dismantled February 1968"

Sou
102825

4/12/1968

articulated hopper car
dismantled during February, 1968

Sou
102826

2/19/1968

articulated hopper car
Dismantled during January 1968

Sou
102829

11/1/1967

articulated hopper car
Authorized for retirement at Charlotte

Sou
102830

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102831

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102832

12/1/1967

articulated hopper car
Authorized for retirement at Sevier, TN

Sou
102832

2/19/1968

articulated hopper car
Dismantled during January 1968

Sou
102837

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102839

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102842

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102844

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102848

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
In Report of Equipment Dismantled December, 1967

Sou
102848

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
dismantled during December, 1967

Sou
102849

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102851

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102854

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102857

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102858

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102858

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement

Sou
102859

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102863

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102864

12/1/1967

articulated hopper car
Authorized for retirement at Sevier, TN

Sou
102864

2/19/1968

articulated hopper car
dismantled during January, 1968

Sou
102865

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102866

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102868

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102872

7/2/1970

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102878

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102879

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102880

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102880

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102880

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement

Sou
102888

3/24/1969

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102893

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
recommended for retirement

Sou
102893

3/15/1971

articulated hopper car
1 of 277 BO cars recommended for retirement

Sou
102897

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
In Report of Equipment Dismantled December, 1967

Sou
102900

1/17/1968

articulated hopper car
In Report of Equipment Dismantled November, 1967


On Jan 17, 2021, at 10:55 AM, Daniel Bourque <deltabourque@...> wrote:

What I haven’t been able to figure out with these “articulated” cars is how they were coupled. I would assume a drawbar, but photos aren’t clear. How do you designate an A and B end with brake wheels on both? I know the idea was to cut costs for shipping because it was technically a single-car movement, but still a strange car. 

I’ve seen pictures of these cars made from either ex-Interstate hoppers (similar to AAR rib-side hoppers) or rebuilt war-emergency hoppers with the diagonal bracing. Paint schemes also seem pretty varied including both black and red. Some cars have the big split letters, and some have “SOUTHERN” on the “left” car and the car number on the right. 

Dan


On Jan 17, 2021, at 7:33 AM, sgwarner88@... wrote:

Those hybrids were strange looking.   Around ‘65 or so I recall seeing one standing under the Gay St. viaduct, and asked a Sou. Carman what they were.  His answer was less than printable, likely because I suspect that they would have a double AB valve and brake systems (Plus eight journals) for one car.  I seem to recall that it was a combination of off-set hoppers, permanently coupled.  The split lettering was an eye-caitching.

locked Re: The Interstate Coal Fleet: 1960-1966?

Daniel Bourque
 

Bill,

I don’t have any photos I can share online, but in the hopper section of “Southern Railway Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment” by James Kincaid is a photo of an articulated hopper (ex-Interstate cars, it appears) in black in ‘66. It’s the only car I can recall seeing a photo of in this era that combines black and block-style lettering. My guess it was a quick repaint involving patching of the INT lettering, but this seems to run counter to standard Southern practice. 

Dan


On Jan 17, 2021, at 9:37 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

 For what it’s worth, my recollection is that the cars were joined with a solid drawbar and a solid air hose - no glad hands. Also, I do not ever recall seeing “artics” painted black. If anyone has such a color image, please post it. All the cars I remember seeing were painted red, regardless of the placement of the letters.

—Bill

On Jan 17, 2021, at 10:55, Daniel Bourque <deltabourque@...> wrote:

What I haven’t been able to figure out with these “articulated” cars is how they were coupled. I would assume a drawbar, but photos aren’t clear. How do you designate an A and B end with brake wheels on both? I know the idea was to cut costs for shipping because it was technically a single-car movement, but still a strange car. 

I’ve seen pictures of these cars made from either ex-Interstate hoppers (similar to AAR rib-side hoppers) or rebuilt war-emergency hoppers with the diagonal bracing. Paint schemes also seem pretty varied including both black and red. Some cars have the big split letters, and some have “SOUTHERN” on the “left” car and the car number on the right. 

Dan


On Jan 17, 2021, at 7:33 AM, sgwarner88@... wrote:

Those hybrids were strange looking.   Around ‘65 or so I recall seeing one standing under the Gay St. viaduct, and asked a Sou. Carman what they were.  His answer was less than printable, likely because I suspect that they would have a double AB valve and brake systems (Plus eight journals) for one car.  I seem to recall that it was a combination of off-set hoppers, permanently coupled.  The split lettering was an eye-caitching.

1001 - 1020 of 2491