Date   

locked Re: Depot for St. Elmo, TN

Warren Stephens
 

To be honest I am not totally certain where St. Elmo ends and Chattanooga and/or Alton Park begins. This gentleman is obviously referring to the new Southern alignment which was being crafted partly by upgrading Belt Railway of Chattanooga trackage to mainline and then an entirely new right of way from just south of Shipp yard. This junction of upgraded Belt and new right of way was called “Southern Extension” in TAG employees timetables. Just below the meeting of old a new trackage a natural wye occurred on what was still the Chattanooga Belt. It was here that TAG turned their large steam engines after they outgrew their turntable at Alton Park. The new right of way began a climb to Lookout Mountain tunnel almost immediately after Shipp and was therefore elevated by the time it reached what I have always believed to be St. Elmo city limits. St. Elmo had always been connected to down town Chattanooga. By street car and by the Chattanooga Union Railway steam dummy and by the Chattanooga and Lookout Mountain Railway but as the letter stated only the street car remained by this point. Vintage maps indicate that there was a St. Elmo station on the Chattanooga Union Railway (later Chattanooga Belt) trackage used by Chattanooga Southern (later TAG) to reach the state line. I assume it was used by TAG and steam dummy trains and I can’t see it being very elaborate. By virtue of the fact that the new AGS alignment was elevated through St. Elmo, I doubt this station was ever built. I also doubt the AGS really saw a need for a suburban station that close to Terminal Station. As the crow flys maybe three to three and a half miles? 

Warren D. Stephens
CofG and TAG fan


On Feb 11, 2021, at 8:58 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Until the time of WWI, one of the marks of an “up to date little town” was to have its own freight and passenger stations. The SRHA archives have many letters, similar to the attachment, touting the status of towns, or even developers’ dream of where a town will be, to the Southern in hopes of having a depot built and becoming a timetable stop.

In some cases, the Southern would decline to spend the money but would offer to let whoever was promoting the concept pay to build a combination freight and passenger station on company property to be owned and controlled by the railroad. Having an established post office in the town was almost always a requirement so mail revenue could add to the revenues.

The attached letter from the St. Elmo, TN Business League is typical. SRHA archives "Box  O File 167” does not offer information on if a depot was ever built for St. Elmo (a suburb of Chattanooga).

Ike

<1916-1-19 St. Elmo, TN depot request.jpeg>


locked Depot for St. Elmo, TN

George Eichelberger
 

Until the time of WWI, one of the marks of an “up to date little town” was to have its own freight and passenger stations. The SRHA archives have many letters, similar to the attachment, touting the status of towns, or even developers’ dream of where a town will be, to the Southern in hopes of having a depot built and becoming a timetable stop.

In some cases, the Southern would decline to spend the money but would offer to let whoever was promoting the concept pay to build a combination freight and passenger station on company property to be owned and controlled by the railroad. Having an established post office in the town was almost always a requirement so mail revenue could add to the revenues.

The attached letter from the St. Elmo, TN Business League is typical. SRHA archives "Box  O File 167” does not offer information on if a depot was ever built for St. Elmo (a suburb of Chattanooga).

Ike


locked Re: Steam Decal Artwork

Doug Alexander
 

I got a couple of sets, and they look pretty good.  Not as sharp an edge as you'd get from an ALPS, but perhaps as good as silk-screening can be.  I really like the addition of Alco and Baldwin builder's plates, tho I'd have preferred more than they sent.
--
Doug Alexander
Atlanta


locked Re: Steam Decal Artwork

O Fenton Wells
 

Yes they were called dulux gold. That lasted much better on the cars and locomotives that the gold leaf
Fenton

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 9:10 PM David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:
While i'm not in the market for these, I did read on facebook that those decals are gold colored, but are not metallic (gold leaf) gold, in case that matters.

David Friedlander

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 8:55 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
I’ve had good luck with K4 but admit I’m not the go to guy on the accuracy of prototype vs decal lettering. 
I’ll have to scope out the K4 SR offerings 
Fenton 


On Feb 9, 2021, at 7:43 PM, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I don't know how accurate they are, but K-4 Decal's just released a set of decals for Southern Steam.

George Courtney



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


locked Re: Steam Decal Artwork

David Friedlander
 

While i'm not in the market for these, I did read on facebook that those decals are gold colored, but are not metallic (gold leaf) gold, in case that matters.

David Friedlander

On Tue, Feb 9, 2021 at 8:55 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
I’ve had good luck with K4 but admit I’m not the go to guy on the accuracy of prototype vs decal lettering. 
I’ll have to scope out the K4 SR offerings 
Fenton 


On Feb 9, 2021, at 7:43 PM, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

I don't know how accurate they are, but K-4 Decal's just released a set of decals for Southern Steam.

George Courtney


locked Re: Steam Decal Artwork

O Fenton Wells
 

I’ve had good luck with K4 but admit I’m not the go to guy on the accuracy of prototype vs decal lettering. 
I’ll have to scope out the K4 SR offerings 
Fenton 


On Feb 9, 2021, at 7:43 PM, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3@...> wrote:

I don't know how accurate they are, but K-4 Decal's just released a set of decals for Southern Steam.

George Courtney


locked Re: Steam Decal Artwork

George Courtney
 

I don't know how accurate they are, but K-4 Decal's just released a set of decals for Southern Steam.

George Courtney


locked Re: Savannah and Atlanta Cab X-256 (and SOU X-255)

David Friedlander
 

The yellow bellies are indeed locals.  I plan on loosely modeling around Atlanta, so this works for me. Just trying to figure out if I ever decided I want one, if I was to paint it for around 1970, should it be the new or old schemes.

Dave,

Looks like someone has been trying to reach the owner of the website, which seems to be you now. :-)     https://ncrails.com/hosam-com/   Hopefully you can reach out to Steve about website preservation. Not entirely sure what he is looking to do other than incorporate some of the information there on his own site.  His site is a rather nice resource IMHO.

I appreciate you keeping it going.  It's very basic, so I can't imagine there is a whole lot to get hacked, but I have no idea what the backend is like.  As Steve has done, I too think I haved saved off most anything I wanted in case it did perish.  I haven't noticed any errors in my usage of the site, but I admit my usage has been light.  If upkeep is a concern, there's always the option to try to roll it into some sort of free blog.  The lift shouldn't be too difficult if needed.

I use the Image Archive from Tom Daspit often, or at least used to.  I have run across broken links before, but have no room to complain. If Tom wants out, I don't actually know how IRM pulled off their usage of smugmug (https://pullman-lib.smugmug.com/), but if it's free, it may make sense to slowly shift the photos over if the upkeep of his site is too much, but I realize there is more than just the image archive. Then you get dependent on smugmug and how they run business.  Pro's and Con's to every decision.

In both cases, I don't know what it costs to keep the sites up. If the current owners want out and if the SRHA wants to bring these sorts of resources in-house, then that is also an option.  As a lifetime SRHA member, I can most definitely find some time to help out with some of that work if desired.  The powers that be just have to figure out if the owners want out and if these are things the SRHA as a whole are interested in owning and maintaining.

David Friedlander


On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:37 PM A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:
David,

You mentioned hosam.com as your source for painting info.     I pay the upkeep on the site and domain name now that Sam and Hank have both passed away.    I have not tried to edit/add to that site over the years, though I probably should.   If anyone knows of egregious errors on that site, please let me know and I'll remove them.

At one point, I had hoped to carry on Sam's work to provide even more information in such an accessible format, especially on the Southern Railway, but then it was hard enough some years to remember to pay the server bill and double check the site hadn't been hacked.   So it has remained static for more than a decade.

I would be happy to remove errors though, if they are clear and egregious.   Most of the time, I think Sam got it right (or at least fairly chose between options when the evidence was not 100% clear).   I only keep the site up as a memorial to Sam and because I gave Hank my word I would continue it as long as I could.  But I don't want to create confusion by promoting errors that have been proven wrong.  Sam would have wanted those corrected, too.

I often wonder what will happen to southern.railfan.net if Tom Daspit runs out of track some day, too.  I use that site as a reference at least 3-4 times a year, and I bet a lot of others do too.

Thoughts like these are the reason I keep hosam.com up and why I donate to the SRHA.  SRHA is the only organization that is dedicated to preserving the Southern's historical information. An individual may have a friend or two, like Hank and then me, to help when they falter. But individuals still fall to the wayside at some point.  Collective action is more sustainable.  Our best bet to preserve the legacy is to help the SRHA  preserve and share its information.

Dave Bott

Monday, February 8, 2021, 6:48:30 PM, you wrote:


Hi all,

I just received my 2020Q4 TIES.  It was very well done. Kudos to those who take the time to produce these articles.

I now have excuses to run 30-car silversides trains.

In any case, I had a question about the S&A caboose shown on page 23.  When did this NE-style caboose get repainted from the (White and/or Off-White) to SOU red/yellow?

Here's a photo of it prior to the repaint:
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/caboose/sa256.jpg

I might as well ask - Would the colors match S&A 251 on page 22? Looking at Sam McCall's website, it looks like my initial thoughts are correct: http://hosam.com/roads/sa.html  (white sides, black roof, caboose red ends.)

The image archive also has an interesting photo of X-255. When did it get its windows plated over and repainted into Southern? These look like neat projects for way down the road.
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/caboose/soux255billbedellandoverva7181.html

Thanks,
David Friedlander



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC


locked Re: Savannah and Atlanta Cab X-256 (and SOU X-255)

A&Y Dave in MD
 

David,

You mentioned hosam.com as your source for painting info.     I pay the upkeep on the site and domain name now that Sam and Hank have both passed away.    I have not tried to edit/add to that site over the years, though I probably should.   If anyone knows of egregious errors on that site, please let me know and I'll remove them.

At one point, I had hoped to carry on Sam's work to provide even more information in such an accessible format, especially on the Southern Railway, but then it was hard enough some years to remember to pay the server bill and double check the site hadn't been hacked.   So it has remained static for more than a decade.

I would be happy to remove errors though, if they are clear and egregious.   Most of the time, I think Sam got it right (or at least fairly chose between options when the evidence was not 100% clear).   I only keep the site up as a memorial to Sam and because I gave Hank my word I would continue it as long as I could.  But I don't want to create confusion by promoting errors that have been proven wrong.  Sam would have wanted those corrected, too.

I often wonder what will happen to southern.railfan.net if Tom Daspit runs out of track some day, too.  I use that site as a reference at least 3-4 times a year, and I bet a lot of others do too.

Thoughts like these are the reason I keep hosam.com up and why I donate to the SRHA.  SRHA is the only organization that is dedicated to preserving the Southern's historical information. An individual may have a friend or two, like Hank and then me, to help when they falter. But individuals still fall to the wayside at some point.  Collective action is more sustainable.  Our best bet to preserve the legacy is to help the SRHA  preserve and share its information.

Dave Bott

Monday, February 8, 2021, 6:48:30 PM, you wrote:


Hi all,

I just received my 2020Q4 TIES.  It was very well done. Kudos to those who take the time to produce these articles.

I now have excuses to run 30-car silversides trains.

In any case, I had a question about the S&A caboose shown on page 23.  When did this NE-style caboose get repainted from the (White and/or Off-White) to SOU red/yellow?

Here's a photo of it prior to the repaint:
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/caboose/sa256.jpg

I might as well ask - Would the colors match S&A 251 on page 22? Looking at Sam McCall's website, it looks like my initial thoughts are correct: http://hosam.com/roads/sa.html  (white sides, black roof, caboose red ends.)

The image archive also has an interesting photo of X-255. When did it get its windows plated over and repainted into Southern? These look like neat projects for way down the road.
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/caboose/soux255billbedellandoverva7181.html

Thanks,
David Friedlander



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC


locked Re: Savannah and Atlanta Cab X-256 (and SOU X-255)

Carl Ardrey
 

The “yellow bellies” were assigned to outlying  locals due to the fact they weren’t equipped with generators so no radio.
CEA


On Feb 8, 2021, at 9:08 PM, Michael Sherbak II via groups.io <msherbak11@...> wrote:

Also - I believe one of these cabooses is located in Varnville SC 

Michael
803-293-5568


On Feb 8, 2021, at 20:39, Michael J Sherbak II <msherbak11@...> wrote:

Didn’t the yellow cupola indicate a local ? 

Michael
803-293-5568


On Feb 8, 2021, at 19:44, Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...> wrote:


<image0.jpeg>



On Feb 8, 2021, at 6:49 PM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:


Hi all,

I just received my 2020Q4 TIES.  It was very well done. Kudos to those who take the time to produce these articles.

I now have excuses to run 30-car silversides trains.

In any case, I had a question about the S&A caboose shown on page 23.  When did this NE-style caboose get repainted from the (White and/or Off-White) to SOU red/yellow?

Here's a photo of it prior to the repaint:

I might as well ask - Would the colors match S&A 251 on page 22? Looking at Sam McCall's website, it looks like my initial thoughts are correct: http://hosam.com/roads/sa.html  (white sides, black roof, caboose red ends.)

The image archive also has an interesting photo of X-255. When did it get its windows plated over and repainted into Southern? These look like neat projects for way down the road.

Thanks,
David Friedlander


locked Re: Savannah and Atlanta Cab X-256 (and SOU X-255)

Michael Sherbak II
 

Also - I believe one of these cabooses is located in Varnville SC 

Michael
803-293-5568


On Feb 8, 2021, at 20:39, Michael J Sherbak II <msherbak11@...> wrote:

Didn’t the yellow cupola indicate a local ? 

Michael
803-293-5568


On Feb 8, 2021, at 19:44, Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...> wrote:


<image0.jpeg>



On Feb 8, 2021, at 6:49 PM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:


Hi all,

I just received my 2020Q4 TIES.  It was very well done. Kudos to those who take the time to produce these articles.

I now have excuses to run 30-car silversides trains.

In any case, I had a question about the S&A caboose shown on page 23.  When did this NE-style caboose get repainted from the (White and/or Off-White) to SOU red/yellow?

Here's a photo of it prior to the repaint:

I might as well ask - Would the colors match S&A 251 on page 22? Looking at Sam McCall's website, it looks like my initial thoughts are correct: http://hosam.com/roads/sa.html  (white sides, black roof, caboose red ends.)

The image archive also has an interesting photo of X-255. When did it get its windows plated over and repainted into Southern? These look like neat projects for way down the road.

Thanks,
David Friedlander


locked Re: Savannah and Atlanta Cab X-256 (and SOU X-255)

Michael Sherbak II
 

Didn’t the yellow cupola indicate a local ? 

Michael
803-293-5568


On Feb 8, 2021, at 19:44, Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...> wrote:


<image0.jpeg>



On Feb 8, 2021, at 6:49 PM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:


Hi all,

I just received my 2020Q4 TIES.  It was very well done. Kudos to those who take the time to produce these articles.

I now have excuses to run 30-car silversides trains.

In any case, I had a question about the S&A caboose shown on page 23.  When did this NE-style caboose get repainted from the (White and/or Off-White) to SOU red/yellow?

Here's a photo of it prior to the repaint:

I might as well ask - Would the colors match S&A 251 on page 22? Looking at Sam McCall's website, it looks like my initial thoughts are correct: http://hosam.com/roads/sa.html  (white sides, black roof, caboose red ends.)

The image archive also has an interesting photo of X-255. When did it get its windows plated over and repainted into Southern? These look like neat projects for way down the road.

Thanks,
David Friedlander


locked Re: Savannah and Atlanta Cab X-256 (and SOU X-255)

Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...>
 




On Feb 8, 2021, at 6:49 PM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:


Hi all,

I just received my 2020Q4 TIES.  It was very well done. Kudos to those who take the time to produce these articles.

I now have excuses to run 30-car silversides trains.

In any case, I had a question about the S&A caboose shown on page 23.  When did this NE-style caboose get repainted from the (White and/or Off-White) to SOU red/yellow?

Here's a photo of it prior to the repaint:

I might as well ask - Would the colors match S&A 251 on page 22? Looking at Sam McCall's website, it looks like my initial thoughts are correct: http://hosam.com/roads/sa.html  (white sides, black roof, caboose red ends.)

The image archive also has an interesting photo of X-255. When did it get its windows plated over and repainted into Southern? These look like neat projects for way down the road.

Thanks,
David Friedlander


locked Savannah and Atlanta Cab X-256 (and SOU X-255)

David Friedlander
 

Hi all,

I just received my 2020Q4 TIES.  It was very well done. Kudos to those who take the time to produce these articles.

I now have excuses to run 30-car silversides trains.

In any case, I had a question about the S&A caboose shown on page 23.  When did this NE-style caboose get repainted from the (White and/or Off-White) to SOU red/yellow?

Here's a photo of it prior to the repaint:

I might as well ask - Would the colors match S&A 251 on page 22? Looking at Sam McCall's website, it looks like my initial thoughts are correct: http://hosam.com/roads/sa.html  (white sides, black roof, caboose red ends.)

The image archive also has an interesting photo of X-255. When did it get its windows plated over and repainted into Southern? These look like neat projects for way down the road.

Thanks,
David Friedlander


locked Re: Let's Move topic about modeling to "Modeling the Southern.io

Michael Roderick
 

Ike:

 

I have looked for the group on Groups.io and can’t find it. All I get is this info.

 

Southern Railway Historical and Modeling Information Interchange main@SouthernRailway.groups.io

Which is our group. If you know the admin for that group have them email me of list.

 

Mike

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 10:54
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Let's Move topic about modeling to "Modeling the Southern.io

 

Sorry, I don’t see your point. “Decals” are clearly a “modeling” subject..that’s why the “Modelingthesouthern.io” group was created and advertised as part of this group. Here is a copy of an email I sent yesterday.

 

I realize we have two pretty distinct groups, historical/business types and modelers. I'm both but I understand “modeling” topics may need more discussion and details. If someone is not “into” modeling that material can get tedious. You’’ll find the topics on “modeling” are pretty good and that’s where I usually post things like drawings there. Sometimes, I think items may apply to both and I’ll post something twice.

 

Ike

 

 

 

Both are SRHA owned groups so archives goodies appear in both.

 

On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:18 AM, RamblingReck <ramblingreck@...> wrote:

 


-- I thought this was the Southern Railway Historical and Modeling Information Exchange group. I found the exchanges on decals interesting. 


John Ryan

 


locked Re: Let's Move topic about modeling to "Modeling the Southern.io

George Eichelberger
 

Sorry, I don’t see your point. “Decals” are clearly a “modeling” subject..that’s why the “Modelingthesouthern.io” group was created and advertised as part of this group. Here is a copy of an email I sent yesterday.

I realize we have two pretty distinct groups, historical/business types and modelers. I'm both but I understand “modeling” topics may need more discussion and details. If someone is not “into” modeling that material can get tedious. You’’ll find the topics on “modeling” are pretty good and that’s where I usually post things like drawings there. Sometimes, I think items may apply to both and I’ll post something twice.

Ike



Both are SRHA owned groups so archives goodies appear in both.

On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:18 AM, RamblingReck <ramblingreck@...> wrote:


-- I thought this was the Southern Railway Historical and Modeling Information Exchange group. I found the exchanges on decals interesting. 


John Ryan



locked Re: Let's Move topic about modeling to "Modeling the Southern.io

RamblingReck
 


-- I thought this was the Southern Railway Historical and Modeling Information Exchange group. I found the exchanges on decals interesting. 


John Ryan


locked Re: DT&I Study of 1975

George Eichelberger
 

The DT&I had an important role for the Southern with auto parts traffic.

If an auto parts car was bad ordered at one of the parts or assembly plants in Michigan, it would be billed empty to Hayne Shop in Spartanburg for repairs or “re-complimenting” if missing DF equipment was the problem. Not only was the r/t deadhead mileage a problem, an assigned car would be out of service until it could be returned. That could be a real problem for special equipment that stayed with the car.

That, plus the fact a remarkable percentage of Southern cars never came “home” during their assignments*. The Southern had the DT&I do work on cars to save the trip to Spartanburg.

*For example, if a car was set up to move auto bodies, transmissions, whatever for a particular car model and the auto companies shifted assembly of that car to another plant (not in Atlanta) in the same pool, the rail car stayed in that pool with no mileage on the SRS. (Pool cars were loaded and sent as needed, no matter which road owned the car or its destination.)

Ike

PS for anyone interested in Southern 50’ box cars, I’m told there are only three copies of the first SRHA box car book (1938-1963) left in the Grab. I don’t expect we’ll see another printing until the revised and expanded 40’ box car book and the second (1963-1982) 50’ box car book.



On Feb 2, 2021, at 8:08 PM, Michael Shirey <pcrrhs6561@...> wrote:

 I will say this, I model a Modern Southern Railway from about 1982 to 1990,  and this is very informative information on the DT&I.  In my world the DT&I was merged into the Southern in 1983 in a 50/50 split with the GTW.  Again I know this group is for the Southern pre 1982.  But I just wanted to share my 2 Cents. 


Michael Shirey
PCRRHS and SRHA Member


On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 2:39 PM CMayhew <chris.mayhew611@...> wrote:
A fascinating what-if scenario there.




locked Re: DT&I Study of 1975

Michael Shirey
 

 I will say this, I model a Modern Southern Railway from about 1982 to 1990,  and this is very informative information on the DT&I.  In my world the DT&I was merged into the Southern in 1983 in a 50/50 split with the GTW.  Again I know this group is for the Southern pre 1982.  But I just wanted to share my 2 Cents. 


Michael Shirey
PCRRHS and SRHA Member


On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 2:39 PM CMayhew <chris.mayhew611@...> wrote:
A fascinating what-if scenario there.


locked Re: Let's Move topic about modeling to "Modeling the Southern.io

A&Y Dave in MD
 

oops. Sure

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Feb 2, 2021, at 6:00 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

All:

Could I suggest we respond directly to an individual if we have a question for them, AND move modeling topics, e.g. decals, to the "modeling the Southern.io" group?

Ike

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