Date   

locked Re: Southern Railway Bridge Colors

Robert Graham
 

While the Sou Ry steel bridges I shot photos of in the 1960's, 1970's, 1980's were silver in color with either black or green lettering like the one Carl Ardrey provided, I believe in the 1940's and earlier, they were painted black with either white or silver or aluminum lettering. I have attached a photo from Charlotte NC made April 24 1947 of a P&N interurban car coming in to Mint St station. The Sou Ry main line to Columbia SC passed over the P&N station approach tracks (just about where BOA Stadium is now) at that time before being relocated when the old passenger station was closed and SOU lines relocated in and around Charlotte as a result circa 1960 or thereabouts. While a B&W photo, the steel trestle girders are clearly a dark color with light lettering. I suspect this was also the case in Greensboro, as bridge colors were usually system wide and not subject to division preferences.

Also, to answer Bill Schafer's question regarding the presence of the Southern Railway letterboard on the Davie St overpass in Greensboro, it is long gone, removed by NS about the same time the other SOU bridge lettering was removed a few years after the merger. I don't think it was saved, but do not know, but if not, too bad.

Bob Graham



---- Kevin von der Lippe <kevin.vonderlippe@capital.org> wrote:

The City of Greensboro is working with NS and the NCRR to paint the various railroad bridges within the city limits, and would like to paint them to be historically correct for the Southern Railway.  Does anyone know what the standard paint colors were for the the railroad in the 1930s or 40s?

Thank you,

Kevin von der Lippe



locked Drawbridge questions

Ron Stafford
 

Can anyone cite the builder(s) and dates for the Charleston Division drawbridges over the Congaree River (SC Line MP 102.6) and over the Wateree River on the SB Line (MP 5.2)?

Also looking for the dates when they were replaced with the current (non-draw) structures.

Thanks,

Ron Stafford


locked Re: Southern Railway Bridge Colors

Carl Ardrey
 

This structure still in use by the Aiken RR is between Aiken and Warrenville.

CEA

On February 25, 2019 at 10:10 AM Kevin von der Lippe <kevin.vonderlippe@...> wrote:

The City of Greensboro is working with NS and the NCRR to paint the various railroad bridges within the city limits, and would like to paint them to be historically correct for the Southern Railway.  Does anyone know what the standard paint colors were for the the railroad in the 1930s or 40s?

Thank you,

Kevin von der Lippe


locked Re: Southern Railway Bridge Colors

Bill Schafer
 

Kevin Van Der Lippe:

I don’t know how the underpasses were painted in the 1940s, but when I was living there in the early-1970s, the McGee Street/Davie Street underpass was a dirty gray or silver, with maybe black underneath. The letter board bearing the name “Southern Railway” was silver too, and from the accompanying photo, the letters were raised and appear to have been painted black (I wonder if this letter board is still there). This is pre-Amtrak train 5, which Southern called the Piedmont, leaving Greensboro at 7:00 am in early 1971. 

35 SOU train 5 leaving Greensboro crossing Elm St. behind 6148 FP7 Mar 1971 GWS photo.jpeg

Here’s another view, taken later the same year, that shows a little bit of the underpass. In this view, it looks to me as if the underpass is silver, and that it needs a paint job. 

SOU 6308 leads two more SD24s across Elm St Greensboro NC with train 159 1971 Bill Schafer photo.tiff

Hope this helps.

—Bill Schafer

On Feb 25, 2019, at 11:10 AM, Kevin von der Lippe <kevin.vonderlippe@...> wrote:

The City of Greensboro is working with NS and the NCRR to paint the various railroad bridges within the city limits, and would like to paint them to be historically correct for the Southern Railway.  Does anyone know what the standard paint colors were for the the railroad in the 1930s or 40s?

Thank you,

Kevin von der Lippe


locked Southern Railway Bridge Colors

Kevin von der Lippe
 

The City of Greensboro is working with NS and the NCRR to paint the various railroad bridges within the city limits, and would like to paint them to be historically correct for the Southern Railway.  Does anyone know what the standard paint colors were for the the railroad in the 1930s or 40s?

Thank you,

Kevin von der Lippe


locked Archives Work Session Feb 22-23

Jim Thurston
 

Just a reminder that the SRHA Archives Work Session will be Friday & Saturday, Feb 22-23

Jim Thurston


locked Re: Southern FP-7 Details

Justin May
 

Southwest Scale Productions offers HO scale FP7-F9 after cooler piping for sale which is also sold by Highliners.


Justin May

On Feb 9, 2019, at 14:59, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

As far as I know the long cooling pipes mounted alongside the radiator fans were aftercooler pipes between the air compressor and the main reservoir.  Sounds like the finned pipes on the E6s and E7s had a different purpose.  Remember, the radiators on the early Es were nothing like those on the Fs or E8s.

My understanding is the aftercooler pipes were a retrofit offered by EMD after being made standard on the F9.  So perhaps installed after 1954.  Many railroads added them to their earlier Fs.

In HO, I think Bowser sells an aftercooler pipe assembly for F units.


Scott Chatfield
<DL-3253 cooling sys mod E6 & E&_B.jpg>


locked Re: Southern FP-7 Details

Gary Bechdol
 

Highliners also has aftercooler 
pipes for F-units.

Gary 

On Sat, Feb 9, 2019, 4:18 PM D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@... wrote:
As far as I know the long cooling pipes mounted alongside the radiator fans were aftercooler pipes between the air compressor and the main reservoir.  Sounds like the finned pipes on the E6s and E7s had a different purpose.  Remember, the radiators on the early Es were nothing like those on the Fs or E8s.

My understanding is the aftercooler pipes were a retrofit offered by EMD after being made standard on the F9.  So perhaps installed after 1954.  Many railroads added them to their earlier Fs.

In HO, I think Bowser sells an aftercooler pipe assembly for F units.


Scott Chatfield


locked Re: Southern FP-7 Details

D. Scott Chatfield
 

As far as I know the long cooling pipes mounted alongside the radiator fans were aftercooler pipes between the air compressor and the main reservoir.  Sounds like the finned pipes on the E6s and E7s had a different purpose.  Remember, the radiators on the early Es were nothing like those on the Fs or E8s.

My understanding is the aftercooler pipes were a retrofit offered by EMD after being made standard on the F9.  So perhaps installed after 1954.  Many railroads added them to their earlier Fs.

In HO, I think Bowser sells an aftercooler pipe assembly for F units.


Scott Chatfield


locked Re: Southern FP-7 Details

George Eichelberger
 

There does not appear to be any drawings of rooftop cooling pipes for FP-7s in the SRHA archive scans. As many early photos of Southern FP-7s do not show the pipes, I expect they were added after delivery by the Southern. If that is correct, the shops may have simply used the drawings created for E-6 and E-7s. I have uploaded one of them before so here is a different, DL-3253, showing how the rooftop pipes were connected to the engine cooling systems. Most of the E-6 pipes had fins to increase their heat dissipation but plain pipes appear to have been used later (a cost consideration as the finned pipes were a special purpose?)

Ike



On Feb 7, 2019, at 6:59 PM, SouRwyFan via Groups.Io <blackaerocoupe@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I am working on a project and trying to gather info on FP-7's.

Anybody got dimensions or drawings of rooftop piping? (Were they cooling coils or air lines up there?)
Also what about location of backup headlight and other details of rear of units?
I know it's a stretch but what about painting diagram/Spec sheet?

Thanks!
RS


locked Re: Southern FP-7 Details

milepost 131
 

File section  of the Yahoogroup migrated to groups.io has drawings.


locked Re: Southern FP-7 Details

O Fenton Wells
 

I know Bob Harp did one of these  on the old Southern Modeler site.  Check to see if it is still there.


On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 7:08 PM SouRwyFan via Groups.Io <blackaerocoupe=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi all,

I am working on a project and trying to gather info on FP-7's.

Anybody got dimensions or drawings of rooftop piping? (Were they cooling coils or air lines up there?)
Also what about location of backup headlight and other details of rear of units?
I know it's a stretch but what about painting diagram/Spec sheet?

Thanks!
RS



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


locked Southern FP-7 Details

SouRwyFan
 

Hi all,

I am working on a project and trying to gather info on FP-7's.

Anybody got dimensions or drawings of rooftop piping? (Were they cooling coils or air lines up there?)
Also what about location of backup headlight and other details of rear of units?
I know it's a stretch but what about painting diagram/Spec sheet?

Thanks!
RS


locked Operating Contract between the Pullman Co. and Southern Railway System

George Eichelberger
 

SRHA is in the process of scanning more than 1,000 contracts, operating agreements, leases, joint facility agreements and equipment trusts. In the next few weeks we should be able to upload scans of the cover of every/most  contracts in the SRHA archives. Here is a complete scan of Southern Railway contract No. 1109 with the Pullman Co. dated January 1, 1946. Because it is most likely the wording Pullman negotiated with every railroad operating Pullmans at that time, I will cross-post it to other groups.io groups.

Note that this is not a "golden age" Pullman agreement! It covers the dissolution of the Pullman Co. where its stock was sold to the railroads but continues "sleeping car" contracts, modified as needed by the court. There are multiple Pullman contracts in the SRHA archives BUT they never include information on specific car line numbers (Pullman routes) or cars. Much of that data is available in the SRHA archives although it is spread out in multiple files.

Ike


locked January SRHA Archives Work Session

George Eichelberger
 

We are back from the Cocoa Beach RPM and this weekend's Atlanta train show. I expect several folks we spoke to will help at Friday and Saturday's SRHA archives work session. We will be working on photo prints, negatives, documents and the 300,000 aperture card drawings from CSX. We would like to get cards for the B&O, PRR, etc sorted so they can eventually be passed to their home road historical groups. Of course, there will be time just to look into the variety of material in the archives.

Friday at Turntable Road (TVRM Grand Jct) from 10:00 til and Saturday from about 7:30 until everyone is ready to leave.

Ike


locked SOU steam slides collection for sale

Jim King
 

I recently purchased a Nikon Cool Scan 5000 to scan my large slide collection.  Slides I did not take and ones that are no longer applicable to my modeling, research, etc., will be sold off. 

 

The first group to be offered is Southern steam.  In 1990, I had the opportunity to borrow the late Ed Griffin’s slide collection to copy and sell thru the SRHA as a fundraiser.  Ed (called “Red” by his co-workers) was the Asheville roundhouse foreman from about 1949 until retiring in 1980.  I copied 76 of the 135 slides on Ektachrome for maximum color accuracy using a Canon bellows copier and balanced light.  They were sold in 3 sets.  As you can imagine, these went FAST.  They were never rerun.  Occasionally, a random slide from these sets appears on eBay but complete or nearly-complete sets have not appeared, at least, not that I’ve noticed.  Sets 1 and 2 contained 20 slides each (I have 19 and 14, respectively); set 3 contained 36 (I have 33).

 

He shot Kodachrome ASA 8 or 10 of mostly parked engines (cold and under steam, some with main rods missing, all uncoupled) around the Asheville roundhouse plus 4 slides of the Skyland Special with 2-10-2 helper (2 trains) on Saluda, a late PM silhouette of a 2-8-2 on High Fill (Old Fort Loops) and 3 action shots of a 2-8-8-2 on Biltmore Hill hauling an empty reefer train.  In mid-1949, he was transferred to Sheffield, Alabama (his home) for a couple months where he “kept shooting”; there are several shots of little 2-8-0s including 401 under steam towing a caboose and boxcar (this engine now runs in Indiana).  1 slide shows a long deadline of engines in East Yard with 4-6-2 #1267 in the lead (1 of 4 PS-2s that ran the Murphy Branch).  The Asheville slides were taken 1949-1950; my slides are 1st generation copies and all are irreplaceable.    The whereabouts of Ed’s original slides are unknown.

 

These have been valued at $6.00 each simply because they are copy-slides of rare content.  Well-lit, original Kodachromes could easily fetch $200-$400 each in an auction setting.  I have a total of 66 unique views plus duplicate views of 14 of those, totaling 80 color, Southern slides.  Value = 80 x 6 = $480.

 

In addition to Ed’s slides, I have 82 miscellaneous slides I’ve picked up over the years, including several Kodachrome copy slides of B&W prints of Asheville engines I shot in the 1980s.  The engines shown in the B&W Kodachromes are also represented in color by Ed’s slides but from different angles and dates.  There are 6 copy slides of Frank Clodfelter Kodachromes shot in 1947-48 in the Old Fort Loops and Asheville roundhouse and 2 more his of a 1951 wreck between a 4-8-2 and green F’s at Craggy (on the Tennessee Division a few miles from Asheville).  Most subjects are not from the Asheville area.  On average, these are valued at $3.00 each; some are worth more, some less, depending on “what you’re after”.  Value = 82 x 3 = $246.

 

These are being sold as a single collection.  Total for the 2 “batches” = $726.  The first person to offer $700 gets them, including Priority Mail to a Lower 48 address.  Understandably, Ed’s 66 unique COLOR views are the kernel of this collection and well worth the price.  Finding well-lit, COLOR images of Southern steam around Asheville is extremely hard to accomplish simply because Southern dieselized here in August 1952 and much of the steam was already stored by 1949-50.

 

Jim King

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com


locked SOU steam slides collection for sale

Jim King
 

I recently purchased a Nikon Cool Scan 5000 to scan my large slide collection.  Slides I did not take and ones that are no longer applicable to my modeling, research, etc., will be sold off. 

 

The first group to be offered is Southern steam.  In 1990, I had the opportunity to borrow the late Ed Griffin’s slide collection to copy and sell thru the SRHA as a fundraiser.  Ed (called “Red” by his co-workers) was the Asheville roundhouse foreman from about 1949 until retiring in 1980.  I copied 76 of the 135 slides on Ektachrome for maximum color accuracy using a Canon bellows copier and balanced light.  They were sold in 3 sets.  As you can imagine, these went FAST.  They were never rerun.  Occasionally, a random slide from these sets appears on eBay but complete or nearly-complete sets have not appeared, at least, not that I’ve noticed.  Sets 1 and 2 contained 20 slides each (I have 19 and 14, respectively); set 3 contained 36 (I have 33).

 

He shot Kodachrome ASA 8 or 10 of mostly parked engines (cold and under steam, some with main rods missing, all uncoupled) around the Asheville roundhouse plus 4 slides of the Skyland Special with 2-10-2 helper (2 trains) on Saluda, a late PM silhouette of a 2-8-2 on High Fill (Old Fort Loops) and 3 action shots of a 2-8-8-2 on Biltmore Hill hauling an empty reefer train.  In mid-1949, he was transferred to Sheffield, Alabama (his home) for a couple months where he “kept shooting”; there are several shots of little 2-8-0s including 401 under steam towing a caboose and boxcar (this engine now runs in Indiana).  1 slide shows a long deadline of engines in East Yard with 4-6-2 #1267 in the lead (1 of 4 PS-2s that ran the Murphy Branch).  The Asheville slides were taken 1949-1950; my slides are 1st generation copies and all are irreplaceable.    The whereabouts of Ed’s original slides are unknown.

 

These have been valued at $6.00 each simply because they are copy-slides of rare content.  Well-lit, original Kodachromes could easily fetch $200-$400 each in an auction setting.  I have a total of 66 unique views plus duplicate views of 14 of those, totaling 80 color, Southern slides.  Value = 80 x 6 = $480.

 

In addition to Ed’s slides, I have 82 miscellaneous slides I’ve picked up over the years, including several Kodachrome copy slides of B&W prints of Asheville engines I shot in the 1980s.  The engines shown in the B&W Kodachromes are also represented in color by Ed’s slides but from different angles and dates.  There are 6 copy slides of Frank Clodfelter Kodachromes shot in 1947-48 in the Old Fort Loops and Asheville roundhouse and 2 more his of a 1951 wreck between a 4-8-2 and green F’s at Craggy (on the Tennessee Division a few miles from Asheville).  Most subjects are not from the Asheville area.  On average, these are valued at $3.00 each; some are worth more, some less, depending on “what you’re after”.  Value = 82 x 3 = $246.

 

These are being sold as a single collection.  Total for the 2 “batches” = $726.  The first person to offer $700 gets them, including Priority Mail to a Lower 48 address.  Understandably, Ed’s 66 unique COLOR views are the kernel of this collection and well worth the price.  Finding nicely-lit, COLOR images of Southern steam around Asheville is extremely hard to accomplish simply because Southern dieselized here in August 1952 and much of the steam was already stored by 1949-50.

 

Jim King

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 


locked Need X793 heritage

Jim King
 

I'm helping the Apple Valley Model RR Club update their web site re: heritage of X793.  I have built and renovation dates.  I need to know the 4-digit number it once carried and the freight car it was built from.

Thanks,
Jim King


locked Re: Missing Contract Books

rwbrv4
 

I though Carl had located a complete set up in KY., and they were being transported to the last work session?

Rick


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Thurston <jthurston@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Jan 7, 2019 1:13 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Missing Contract Books

Over the weekend we inventoried the SR Contract Books in our possession, and found that we are missing 4 volumes out of 28. A complete list is attached.

If any of you have copies of these missing volumes, please let us know. We'd like to fill the holes.

Thanks!

Jim Thurston
SRHA Archives


locked Re: A Silverside off-line?

Jim King
 

N&W 475 is what it's coupled to.  I have an original color neg showing that engine with the Silverside coupled to it.  N&W 433 was already spotted on the Abingdon panel track display before this date.  475 was dolled up to look "ancient" for the 1957 NRHS convention.  It was the lead engine on the tripleheader that ran on the Blacksburg branch.  475 has been operating at Strasburg for many years, thankfully.

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