Date   

locked Dining Car Crew Cycles

Bill Schafer
 

This is in reply to Steve Ellis's follow-up question about dining car crew bases other than Atlanta. I'm starting a new thread.

The November 20, 1970 timetable is the first that shows the
 Southern Crescent cut back to tri-weekly between Birmingham and New Orleans, so your trip on a daily Southern Crescent to New Orleans would have been one of the last (as opposed to a tri-weekly Southern Crescent). The daily service Atlanta-Bham continued into the Amtrak era, when it went to tri-weekly effective with the June 1, 1975 timetable. In the post-Amtrak period, the dining car didn’t operate beyond Atlanta; in fact, there was no food service Atlanta-Bham until May 1974, when SOU started offering food/beverage service in a “bar food car”, which photographic evidence suggests was one of the Crescent series sleeper-tavern-lounges.  
 
At one time, maybe as late as the 1960s, Southern dining car crews were based in Cincinnati, Chattanooga, and Washington (and maybe some other places, like Asheville) in addition to Atlanta. I don’t know what their work cycles were; that info is probably in the SRHA archives somewhere. I’m not aware that any full crews were based in New Orleans, at least by the 1950s or 1960s. 
 
During the post-Amtrak Southern Crescent era, I know of at least one steward, Steve Cosmos, who lived in Birmingham, but his crew base was Atlanta. He worked on one of the three long crews and had to deadhead or drive Birmingham-Atlanta to go on or off duty. Pre-Amtrak, Steve had been furloughed for years, but with the clustered retirements in the early-1970s, he was called back to work. I’m sure there were others like him who lived away from Atlanta but had to report there for duty.
 
—Bill
 


locked Re: Greensboro map was Re: [SouthernRailway] Dining Car Crews Sleeping on their Cars

Steve Ellis
 

This is wonderful detail, Bill. When I rode the train in the fall of 1970, I know that was going to New Orleans on Saturdays. I believe it went all the way to New Orleans seven days a week, didn’t it?

Do you know if the crews were based in Atlanta in those days?


Steve Ellis




On Mar 16, 2021, at 9:59 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

In the years of the post-Amtrak Southern Crescent, the dining and lounge car crews were based in Atlanta. The train ran overnight, every night Atlanta-Washington, and tri-weekly Atlanta-New Orleans. As far as the dining cars were concerned, there were five regular crews that ran on the following cycle (the “crew numbers" are not official; just as a reference):
 
Crew 1, Crew 2, Crew 3 - one long cycle per week, which consisted of going on duty in Atlanta with the fresh dining car, leaving on train 1 for New Orleans. The crew overnighted in New Orleans, worked through Atlanta on train 2 the next day, arriving Washington the next morning, and after an all-day layover, worked back overnight on train 1 to Atlanta. They were off for the rest of the week until their cycle began on the same day of the following week.
 
Crew 4, Crew 5 - two short cycles per week. These crews worked two Atlanta-Washington turn-around trips per week, leaving Atlanta on train 2, arriving Washington the next morning, working south from Washington on train 1 that evening, and arriving the next morning in Atlanta.
 
There was also a dining car extra board where people could fill in as needed for vacation or sick day relief, or be added when heavier passenger loadings were expected. 
 
Post-Amtrak, the tavern car only operated Atlanta-Washington, and I remember only two positions for that service, where the attendants made a turn-around trip every other day. There had to have been some provision for their relief somewhere along the line with an extra board attendant, but how it worked into the scheme escapes me at present. You could not put just anybody into that job - they had to have some experience keeping inventories and handling money, which was beyond the pay grade of a dining car waiter. IIRC, the position of the Southern Crescent’s lounge car attendant was a “waiter-in-charge”, which was the same position as the person in charge of a dinette-coach or a stripped down dining car with a two-man crew - a waiter-in-charge and a chef; no steward. 
 
—Bill
 


locked Re: Greensboro map was Re: [SouthernRailway] Dining Car Crews Sleeping on their Cars

Bill Schafer
 

In the years of the post-Amtrak Southern Crescent, the dining and lounge car crews were based in Atlanta. The train ran overnight, every night Atlanta-Washington, and tri-weekly Atlanta-New Orleans. As far as the dining cars were concerned, there were five regular crews that ran on the following cycle (the “crew numbers" are not official; just as a reference):
 
Crew 1, Crew 2, Crew 3 - one long cycle per week, which consisted of going on duty in Atlanta with the fresh dining car, leaving on train 1 for New Orleans. The crew overnighted in New Orleans, worked through Atlanta on train 2 the next day, arriving Washington the next morning, and after an all-day layover, worked back overnight on train 1 to Atlanta. They were off for the rest of the week until their cycle began on the same day of the following week.
 
Crew 4, Crew 5 - two short cycles per week. These crews worked two Atlanta-Washington turn-around trips per week, leaving Atlanta on train 2, arriving Washington the next morning, working south from Washington on train 1 that evening, and arriving the next morning in Atlanta.
 
There was also a dining car extra board where people could fill in as needed for vacation or sick day relief, or be added when heavier passenger loadings were expected. 
 
Post-Amtrak, the tavern car only operated Atlanta-Washington, and I remember only two positions for that service, where the attendants made a turn-around trip every other day. There had to have been some provision for their relief somewhere along the line with an extra board attendant, but how it worked into the scheme escapes me at present. You could not put just anybody into that job - they had to have some experience keeping inventories and handling money, which was beyond the pay grade of a dining car waiter. IIRC, the position of the Southern Crescent’s lounge car attendant was a “waiter-in-charge”, which was the same position as the person in charge of a dinette-coach or a stripped down dining car with a two-man crew - a waiter-in-charge and a chef; no steward. 
 
—Bill
 


locked Re: Greensboro map was Re: [SouthernRailway] Dining Car Crews Sleeping on their Cars

Steve Ellis
 

Were the crews on the Southern Crescent based out of New Orleans or Washington, or both?


On Mar 9, 2021, at 3:04 PM, Steve Ellis <meadowbrookdairy@...> wrote:


As I remember it, the attendants’ jackets did seem to look to be styled a little bit like a sports jacket or blazer, but without the lining or construction. They were also shorter, but I remember them having a button front and lapels.




On Mar 9, 2021, at 2:44 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


When office car NS-8 arrived at TVRM, I was looking in the closets and discovered several what I’d call “attendants’ jackets, soiled but in good condition. Someday, I expect they will find a new use in a museum display?

Ike

PS We are still looking for new trucks for Southern OC-21 circa 1956 (when it was converted at Hayne Shop). If anyone know of any that might be available, let me know at archives@....



On Mar 9, 2021, at 2:19 PM, Robert W. Grabarek, Jr. <grabarek@...> wrote:

The white jacket was normal attire for coach attendants.

Bob Grabarek

-----Original Message----- 
From: "Steve Ellis via groups.io" 
Sent: Mar 9, 2021 12:17 PM 
To: "main@SouthernRailway.groups.io" 
Subject: Re: Greensboro map was Re: [SouthernRailway] Dining Car Crews Sleeping on their Cars 

Wonderful, thank you! 

 On my trip on the Southern from Washington to Atlanta and back in October of 1970, it seemed that even car attendants wore a white cotton 
jacket that looks like something a waiter would wear. Is that normal attire or was this person perhaps a member of the dining staff filling in for
the regular car attendant? 


On Tuesday, March 9, 2021, 11:42:52 AM EST, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


In addition to hotels, many cities and large railroad facilities had either bunkhouses or YMCAs. (There are plans for several in the archives.) The question is….were they used by dining car staff? I suspect that was not common because dining cars were dropped and picked up by trains at various depots.

Ike

PS Here are two pages from the 7-31-57 dining car assignments.



On Mar 9, 2021, at 10:58 AM, Steve Ellis via groups.io <meadowbrookdairy@...> wrote:

I was wondering if the Southern Railway ever housed any of their employees in a hotel for an overnight stay. I know that Amtrak does this. Here in New York City, one of the car attendants on the Crescent told me that he spends the night in a hotel right across the street from Penn Station.


Employees on American trains are not away from home nearly as much as those on the Russian trains. In 2010 I fulfilled a dream I’ve had from childhood and rode the Trans-Siberian railroad from Moscow to Vladivostok, a journey of seven days.


On YouTube you can watch a video of a lady who is an attendant on this train. Every time she leaves home it is for two weeks. The train does not have showers, and they do not get a hotel when they get to Vladivostok, sleeping in the train instead.


I spoke to one lady who said that she did two round trips and was away from home for a month.


Steve Ellis,
Brooklyn New York




On Mar 9, 2021, at 10:42 AM, Graves, William W <wwg@...> wrote:


> Was this installation located on the military reservation shown on your Greensboro map?
 
While I did not recognize the picture, the Military Reservation shown on the map was definitely what was called the ORD section of Greensboro.  The picture could have been from the Pilot Life Campus that was mentioned in the wiki article as it had trees and while my time in Greensboro didn’t start until 1954, by then the ORD section was quite built up with small industrial buildings.
- Bill



locked Re: Southern Lantern Fuel

Bill Schafer
 

Fascinating tidbit, Scott - I never knew that. Thanks.

On Mar 12, 2021, at 18:35, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

Older lanterns burned animal oil, for several reasons.  The important reason for us collectors is the older glass can not take the heat of kerosene fire.  The demand for animal oil increased a great deal during the First World War, and the government asked the lantern makers to figure how to make their lanterns burn kerosene, which was becoming more plentiful by the day.  Corning Glass developed the first globes that could withstand kerosene, but it needed a smaller frame.  This drove the development of the "short globe" lanterns.  

So aside from the smell, kerosene might also break the globe.  Unless the word KERO is cast into the globe do not burn kerosene in it.

Scott Chatfield


locked Re: Southern Lantern Fuel

aramsay18
 

Wasn't whale oil also used in the early 1900's for lanterns?

Andy Ramsay
Berryville VA


On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 6:35 PM D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:
Older lanterns burned animal oil, for several reasons.  The important reason for us collectors is the older glass can not take the heat of kerosene fire.  The demand for animal oil increased a great deal during the First World War, and the government asked the lantern makers to figure how to make their lanterns burn kerosene, which was becoming more plentiful by the day.  Corning Glass developed the first globes that could withstand kerosene, but it needed a smaller frame.  This drove the development of the "short globe" lanterns.  

So aside from the smell, kerosene might also break the globe.  Unless the word KERO is cast into the globe do not burn kerosene in it.

Scott Chatfield


locked Re: Southern Lantern Fuel

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Older lanterns burned animal oil, for several reasons.  The important reason for us collectors is the older glass can not take the heat of kerosene fire.  The demand for animal oil increased a great deal during the First World War, and the government asked the lantern makers to figure how to make their lanterns burn kerosene, which was becoming more plentiful by the day.  Corning Glass developed the first globes that could withstand kerosene, but it needed a smaller frame.  This drove the development of the "short globe" lanterns.  

So aside from the smell, kerosene might also break the globe.  Unless the word KERO is cast into the globe do not burn kerosene in it.

Scott Chatfield


locked Re: Southern Lantern Fuel

Stephen Warner
 

While the roads used kerosene, use lamp oil.  I guarantee that if you burn kerosene at home, your wife, kids, dogs and cats will kick you out of the house - it smells and belongs in a depot or caboose.  Only problem with old lanterns is that there is kerosene residual that will smell half a century later, regardless of using newer lamp oil.


locked Re: Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

TIM ANDREWS
 

We called it the for firey dragon. I hated to start it so we could cool the 1208, but it was one of the things you had to do.


On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 12:11 PM, Charles Powell
<charlesspowell@...> wrote:
It was already in its "Tuxedo Black" paint scheme when it showed up at TVRM around 1969-1972. The car had water and diesel fuel tanks in each end of the car. It had a small Detroit Diesel engine-generator set for electrical power and two Vapor water tube boilers. It was a hot noisy place to be when everything was up and running.


locked Re: Southern Lantern Fuel

 

Now that’s an excellent story. I wish I could find a spot that sold them for four bucks a pop.



On Mar 12, 2021, at 9:12 AM, Felix Freeman <freeman.felix@...> wrote:


Anytime a locomotive consist is readied and offered for service there is a checklist of required supplies.  These requirements vary from railroad to railroad and have evolved over a period of time.  In the early 70s Pegram Shop was still in business and dispatching locomotives for the passenger trains.  One of the required items on each consist was a red globe kerosene lantern.   At that time I was recently hired and working there and decided that I needed one.  I found out that these lanterns were supplied and purchased from The Noland Company.  Noland was a hardware and industrial supply company.  Southern did a lot of business with these people over the years.  One day I had the opportunity to go to their place of business with the intent of purchasing one.  The salesman led me to a room where there was a huge pile of these lanterns.  He told me to take my pick and I bought one.  For $4.00.  I still have this.  It is my only Southern lantern.  Somewhere I still have my receipt. 

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 7:55 AM Thunder via groups.io <t_pearson1212=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Lamp oil is the way to go. 

Do you have a pic of the lantern?

Todd P


On Mar 11, 2021, at 11:06 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:


What model and make is it?

I use regular lamp oil in my lanterns, not kerosene.  

Scott Chatfield



-------- Original message --------
From: Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...>
Date: 03/11/2021 11:27 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "main@SouthernRailway.groups.io" <main@southernrailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Southern Lantern Fuel

I was lucky enough to buy a Southern Lantern which appears to have never been used (maybe it is a reproduction?) and would like to light it.

It is stamped with "Use Only Long Lasting Oil".

What is the correct fuel to use?  I was thinking kerosene but now not so sure.

Thanks,

Allen Cain

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


locked Re: Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

Charles Powell
 

It was already in its "Tuxedo Black" paint scheme when it showed up at TVRM around 1969-1972. The car had water and diesel fuel tanks in each end of the car. It had a small Detroit Diesel engine-generator set for electrical power and two Vapor water tube boilers. It was a hot noisy place to be when everything was up and running.


locked Re: Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

Felix Freeman
 

I seem to recall that some of the retired "B" units in addition to being used as heater cars and mid train radio units were also used as scale test cars.  I think but am not sure that the one at Andover/Appalchia was used as a scale test car.  I photographed the one there and at that time it still had the nice brass EMC builder's plate attached.  

For a period of time a tourist/excursion railroad used a portion of the former Southern line out of Bristol to Gate City.  Among the equipment they had was a former Southern "B" unit. It was still in the Southern scheme when I photographed it at and stored at the end of the line.  I recall the location as being Mendota.

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 10:25 AM Franklin Adams <fthedaddyof3@...> wrote:
Here are two from my negative collection.  Appalachia, VA September 1960


locked Re: Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

Franklin Adams
 

Here are two from my negative collection.  Appalachia, VA September 1960


locked Re: Southern Lantern Fuel

Felix Freeman
 

Anytime a locomotive consist is readied and offered for service there is a checklist of required supplies.  These requirements vary from railroad to railroad and have evolved over a period of time.  In the early 70s Pegram Shop was still in business and dispatching locomotives for the passenger trains.  One of the required items on each consist was a red globe kerosene lantern.   At that time I was recently hired and working there and decided that I needed one.  I found out that these lanterns were supplied and purchased from The Noland Company.  Noland was a hardware and industrial supply company.  Southern did a lot of business with these people over the years.  One day I had the opportunity to go to their place of business with the intent of purchasing one.  The salesman led me to a room where there was a huge pile of these lanterns.  He told me to take my pick and I bought one.  For $4.00.  I still have this.  It is my only Southern lantern.  Somewhere I still have my receipt. 


On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 7:55 AM Thunder via groups.io <t_pearson1212=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Lamp oil is the way to go. 

Do you have a pic of the lantern?

Todd P


On Mar 11, 2021, at 11:06 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:


What model and make is it?

I use regular lamp oil in my lanterns, not kerosene.  

Scott Chatfield



-------- Original message --------
From: Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...>
Date: 03/11/2021 11:27 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "main@SouthernRailway.groups.io" <main@southernrailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Southern Lantern Fuel

I was lucky enough to buy a Southern Lantern which appears to have never been used (maybe it is a reproduction?) and would like to light it.

It is stamped with "Use Only Long Lasting Oil".

What is the correct fuel to use?  I was thinking kerosene but now not so sure.

Thanks,

Allen Cain

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


locked Re: Southern Lantern Fuel

 

Lamp oil is the way to go. 

Do you have a pic of the lantern?

Todd P


On Mar 11, 2021, at 11:06 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:


What model and make is it?

I use regular lamp oil in my lanterns, not kerosene.  

Scott Chatfield



-------- Original message --------
From: Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...>
Date: 03/11/2021 11:27 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "main@SouthernRailway.groups.io" <main@southernrailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Southern Lantern Fuel

I was lucky enough to buy a Southern Lantern which appears to have never been used (maybe it is a reproduction?) and would like to light it.

It is stamped with "Use Only Long Lasting Oil".

What is the correct fuel to use?  I was thinking kerosene but now not so sure.

Thanks,

Allen Cain

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


locked Re: Southern Lantern Fuel

D. Scott Chatfield
 

What model and make is it?

I use regular lamp oil in my lanterns, not kerosene.  

Scott Chatfield



-------- Original message --------
From: Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...>
Date: 03/11/2021 11:27 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: "main@SouthernRailway.groups.io" <main@southernrailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Southern Lantern Fuel

I was lucky enough to buy a Southern Lantern which appears to have never been used (maybe it is a reproduction?) and would like to light it.

It is stamped with "Use Only Long Lasting Oil".

What is the correct fuel to use?  I was thinking kerosene but now not so sure.

Thanks,

Allen Cain

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


locked Southern Lantern Fuel

Allen Cain
 

I was lucky enough to buy a Southern Lantern which appears to have never been used (maybe it is a reproduction?) and would like to light it.

It is stamped with "Use Only Long Lasting Oil".

What is the correct fuel to use?  I was thinking kerosene but now not so sure.

Thanks,

Allen Cain

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


locked Re: Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

George Eichelberger
 

I have models of a SR modernized coach, baggage car and horse car…all with brass sides that I do not think are available anymore. If there is enough SR modelers’ interest, we might attempt to get some of them produced again? Photo is of the unfinished baggage car. (The replacement aluminum doors date the car to the 60s.)

Ike



On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:47 PM, Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:

I remember the all black smooth side coaches, mainly used on #7&8 up here on washington district as the single coach and an Fp-7.  Would stop and pickup pigs at Van Dorn, so there was some revenue.   Are there close models of these?

Sent from Rob's iPhone Xs

On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:36 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:


Charles Powell should be able to tell us if it was still green when it came to TVRM or whether it was already black.  

On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 09:04:21 PM EST, Robert Graham <rgraham2@...> wrote:


Been preoccupied with family concerns and not able to comment much lately, but do have a good shot of SOU heater car HC-50 in service I thought I would share; a Ken Douglas shot from my collection. The HC-50 is on what looks like train #41, the Pelican at Bristol VA on Sept 4 1960, based upon the sun lighting on the car and the schedules of that time period. SOU HC-50 is still in what I suspect was its original paint livery after conversion. While a B&W photo, chromatic differences indicate the HC-50 was painted similar to a SOU B-unit, sylvan green/imitation aluminum lower band/Duco dulux gold 2" stripe and lettering, but with lettering and a large SOU medallion that was more indicative of a boxcar. This is the only shot I have of one of these express boxcar to heater car conversions.

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Bill Schafer"
To: "main@southernrailway.groups.io"
Cc:
Sent: Thursday March 11 2021 6:14:39PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

Here’s what they looked like in service. The conversion to passenger service came fairly late in the game - 1951, at Hayne. They were converted from 50’ freight boxcars built by Mt. Vernon Car in 1938. A free TIES Magazine to the first person who posts a photo of one of these behind steam in Southern Railway regular service. 

—Bill

INBOX224843cc375cfaa62580eced9653386fc86

On Mar 11, 2021, at 18:05, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The trucks, and length of Sou 960600 point to it being one of the Southern’s 50’ express box cars 3275-3299. All were standard 50’ box cars modified for express service and eventually restored as box cars. I cannot locate the records on them but I’m reasonably sure all were un-modified when they returned to general freight service.

That makes the car at TVRM really (!) unusual. It still has express car trucks and even the marker light holder on the corner (closest to the camera in Tim’s photo) that confirms what it was. It is possible a pair of express trucks were put back under the car for its time in heater service but that does not seem likely.

Tim….what other “gems” does TVRM have hiding out in the woods at Enterprise South?

Ike

One of the newest gems at TVRM is NS office car 8, ex Southern OC-21, ex Pullman Point Richmond. It is about to go into the shop at East Chattanooga to be updated (electrical and holding tanks) and backdated to its 1956 appearance…including Southern green paint, of course. “Modeling” rolling stock in 12” - 1’ scale take s a lot of effort and money. Please consider making a donation to TVRM to help with all its preservation and maintenance work. If people don’t help, things like OC-21 and 960600 will eventually become unwanted scrap.


On Mar 11, 2021, at 4:10 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:

Charlie's memory is pretty good.

Here is the car in storage in Chattanooga

<1615496962080blob.jpg>

If you look closely you can see the old number under the new:

<1615497014123blob.jpg>







On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 10:08:45 AM EST, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie
<1615496962080blob.jpg><1615497014123blob.jpg>


<SOU heater car HC 50 09-04-60 Bristol VA KenDouglas photo-BobGraham coll300dpi001 copy.jpg>


locked Re: Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

Rob Wingo
 

I remember the all black smooth side coaches, mainly used on #7&8 up here on washington district as the single coach and an Fp-7.  Would stop and pickup pigs at Van Dorn, so there was some revenue.   Are there close models of these?

Sent from Rob's iPhone Xs

On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:36 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:


Charles Powell should be able to tell us if it was still green when it came to TVRM or whether it was already black.  

On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 09:04:21 PM EST, Robert Graham <rgraham2@...> wrote:


Been preoccupied with family concerns and not able to comment much lately, but do have a good shot of SOU heater car HC-50 in service I thought I would share; a Ken Douglas shot from my collection. The HC-50 is on what looks like train #41, the Pelican at Bristol VA on Sept 4 1960, based upon the sun lighting on the car and the schedules of that time period. SOU HC-50 is still in what I suspect was its original paint livery after conversion. While a B&W photo, chromatic differences indicate the HC-50 was painted similar to a SOU B-unit, sylvan green/imitation aluminum lower band/Duco dulux gold 2" stripe and lettering, but with lettering and a large SOU medallion that was more indicative of a boxcar. This is the only shot I have of one of these express boxcar to heater car conversions.

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Bill Schafer"
To: "main@southernrailway.groups.io"
Cc:
Sent: Thursday March 11 2021 6:14:39PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

Here’s what they looked like in service. The conversion to passenger service came fairly late in the game - 1951, at Hayne. They were converted from 50’ freight boxcars built by Mt. Vernon Car in 1938. A free TIES Magazine to the first person who posts a photo of one of these behind steam in Southern Railway regular service. 

—Bill

INBOX224843cc375cfaa62580eced9653386fc86

On Mar 11, 2021, at 18:05, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The trucks, and length of Sou 960600 point to it being one of the Southern’s 50’ express box cars 3275-3299. All were standard 50’ box cars modified for express service and eventually restored as box cars. I cannot locate the records on them but I’m reasonably sure all were un-modified when they returned to general freight service.

That makes the car at TVRM really (!) unusual. It still has express car trucks and even the marker light holder on the corner (closest to the camera in Tim’s photo) that confirms what it was. It is possible a pair of express trucks were put back under the car for its time in heater service but that does not seem likely.

Tim….what other “gems” does TVRM have hiding out in the woods at Enterprise South?

Ike

One of the newest gems at TVRM is NS office car 8, ex Southern OC-21, ex Pullman Point Richmond. It is about to go into the shop at East Chattanooga to be updated (electrical and holding tanks) and backdated to its 1956 appearance…including Southern green paint, of course. “Modeling” rolling stock in 12” - 1’ scale take s a lot of effort and money. Please consider making a donation to TVRM to help with all its preservation and maintenance work. If people don’t help, things like OC-21 and 960600 will eventually become unwanted scrap.


On Mar 11, 2021, at 4:10 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:

Charlie's memory is pretty good.

Here is the car in storage in Chattanooga

<1615496962080blob.jpg>

If you look closely you can see the old number under the new:

<1615497014123blob.jpg>







On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 10:08:45 AM EST, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie
<1615496962080blob.jpg><1615497014123blob.jpg>


<SOU heater car HC 50 09-04-60 Bristol VA KenDouglas photo-BobGraham coll300dpi001 copy.jpg>


locked Re: Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

TIM ANDREWS
 

Charles Powell should be able to tell us if it was still green when it came to TVRM or whether it was already black.  

On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 09:04:21 PM EST, Robert Graham <rgraham2@...> wrote:


Been preoccupied with family concerns and not able to comment much lately, but do have a good shot of SOU heater car HC-50 in service I thought I would share; a Ken Douglas shot from my collection. The HC-50 is on what looks like train #41, the Pelican at Bristol VA on Sept 4 1960, based upon the sun lighting on the car and the schedules of that time period. SOU HC-50 is still in what I suspect was its original paint livery after conversion. While a B&W photo, chromatic differences indicate the HC-50 was painted similar to a SOU B-unit, sylvan green/imitation aluminum lower band/Duco dulux gold 2" stripe and lettering, but with lettering and a large SOU medallion that was more indicative of a boxcar. This is the only shot I have of one of these express boxcar to heater car conversions.

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Bill Schafer"
To: "main@southernrailway.groups.io"
Cc:
Sent: Thursday March 11 2021 6:14:39PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Heater Car 50 at TVRM?

Here’s what they looked like in service. The conversion to passenger service came fairly late in the game - 1951, at Hayne. They were converted from 50’ freight boxcars built by Mt. Vernon Car in 1938. A free TIES Magazine to the first person who posts a photo of one of these behind steam in Southern Railway regular service. 

—Bill

INBOX224843cc375cfaa62580eced9653386fc86

On Mar 11, 2021, at 18:05, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The trucks, and length of Sou 960600 point to it being one of the Southern’s 50’ express box cars 3275-3299. All were standard 50’ box cars modified for express service and eventually restored as box cars. I cannot locate the records on them but I’m reasonably sure all were un-modified when they returned to general freight service.

That makes the car at TVRM really (!) unusual. It still has express car trucks and even the marker light holder on the corner (closest to the camera in Tim’s photo) that confirms what it was. It is possible a pair of express trucks were put back under the car for its time in heater service but that does not seem likely.

Tim….what other “gems” does TVRM have hiding out in the woods at Enterprise South?

Ike

One of the newest gems at TVRM is NS office car 8, ex Southern OC-21, ex Pullman Point Richmond. It is about to go into the shop at East Chattanooga to be updated (electrical and holding tanks) and backdated to its 1956 appearance…including Southern green paint, of course. “Modeling” rolling stock in 12” - 1’ scale take s a lot of effort and money. Please consider making a donation to TVRM to help with all its preservation and maintenance work. If people don’t help, things like OC-21 and 960600 will eventually become unwanted scrap.


On Mar 11, 2021, at 4:10 PM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:

Charlie's memory is pretty good.

Here is the car in storage in Chattanooga

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If you look closely you can see the old number under the new:

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On Thursday, March 11, 2021, 10:08:45 AM EST, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


If my memory is correct, when the heater car first showed up in Chattanooga and was loaned to TVRM for supplying steam to the cars that were stored at Terminal Station it was HC-50. At some point  it went to the Chattanooga Diesel shop and renumbered into a 900000 number. 960600 maybe? There was one diesel powered trip to Huntsville that the car was used on in the 70s.
Charlie
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