Date   

locked Re: Question/Request for information on Ex-Southern Railway Heavyweight Coach

George Eichelberger
 

Chris:

What is the car number, your organization and where is it?

Ike


locked Re: Question/Request for information on Ex-Southern Railway Heavyweight Coach

Artist794 Workshop
 

Hello all,

Our volunteer organization as started its investigation of the car to see what needs to be addressed. Current plans are not finalized but I'm sure these inspections will tell weather or not the car can be renovated/restored. As of right now we are in the process of removing the seats and flooring in order to inspect/repair parts of the steel floor. While working we found a note listing the car to be built in 1924 by Bethlehem Steel. I'm not sure if this is correct but I thought it would be best to share it with the group if anyone happens to find its file on the archives night.  Any information on the car will be extremely helpful for not only its part in my history report but also in future restoration work.

Thank you for helping and taking the time to look into this cars life further.  I will try to attach a picture from our Wednesday night work sessions.

P.S. in case anyone is curious I am not sure, nor do I have a say, in if the car will be restored to its original Southern paint. Those are debates for another day, first we need to get the car up to working standards. 

Best,
 Chris Zygmunt 


locked Car Program List 1971-1984

George Eichelberger
 

For anyone interested in Southern Railway freight and passenger car maintenance and modifications 1971-1984, the nine pages now on Google Drive are the “key” to helping get the SRHA archives Mechanical Dept files organized and to do research.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dsgnKCH7Ht_IkJGMHAi7EtJaWrdftcRR?usp=sharing

We need to find/verify which of these files we have, get them organized on to shelves or boxes and scanned if they are of general interest.

As you may have seen on Carl Ardrey’s notice, we do plan to have an archives work session the third weekend of this month (and every month). If anyone would like to come, please follow Carl’s recommendation about Covid vaccinations and masks AND let us know (archives@...) if you plan to be there.

Ike


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Bill Schafer
 

And you were required to use LDX pens for these reports? Interesting. Do you know of any other departments or reports (other than switch lists and waybill headers) that required the use of LDX pens?

Thanks.

—Bill

On May 31, 2021, at 20:30, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:

Bill,
They were mailed to the Car Department office at 99 Spring St. There a small group of clerks reviewed them for errors that might cause problems such as a missing reporting mark or faint markings. Then they went somewhere in the Atlanta buildings for scanning.
Charlie


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Charles Powell
 

Bill,
They were mailed to the Car Department office at 99 Spring St. There a small group of clerks reviewed them for errors that might cause problems such as a missing reporting mark or faint markings. Then they went somewhere in the Atlanta buildings for scanning.
Charlie


locked Alexandria, VA Call Sheet -

Rob Wingo
 

Southern Call Office Sheet, 1981.

Have you ever seen a Southern RR Call Office sheet? I never had except when I was a kid and went with my dad to the call office on a weekend and saw it on the agents desk. I took a photo of the one I have as the sheet is very large blotter size. The incredible providence is father-son engineers, L.A. Brown, Jr and his son Wayne Brown were notified that the call office had been abandoned, in early 1982 most likely when it was moving to Manassas, and they went to it and found these call sheets just lying on the floor. They picked them up. Just before Wayne Brown retired he passed them off, literally off a moving freight in Faber, VA to a son, Russell North, of a former conductor AC North. He notice my posts on Facebook and messaged me that we could meet and I could have some as my dad K.H. Wingo had been an engineer and contemporary of his dad. It’s fortunate that 1981 was the year of my graduation from college and the claiming by my dad of the Amtrak Crescent in Dec-81, which he was engineer until his retirement in 1983. It was all detailed as my dad called in sick for the graduation weekend and you can see where he claimed and then was assigned to the Crescent after CW Mattox retired. So many familiar names from the past. It was all a complex choreographed dance, dependent on seniority and hours of service laws among many factors, all detailed on this sheet. I am still studying them and it is fascinating.  Some of the notes are good also, as one note said a person had called from jail and didn't know if he would make it on time.

Is there any interest in scans or photos of these for an archive?  Too bad they are only for 1981. 

Does anyone have a photo of a call board?  I remember the board was tiny cubicles that a small wooded rectangular peg with the person's name on it, kinda replicating the call sheet.  The board could be viewed from the employee side through glass and the call agent on the business side.  Employees could then look and see what jobs who had and everything.



locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Bill Schafer
 

Thanks, Charlie,

How were the reports submitted? Did they get sent somewhere by LDX machine or fax?

—Bill

On May 29, 2021, at 18:47, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:

Bill,
The Mechanical Department used them to fill out the car repair billing forms used to report the repairs made to cars on the RIP tracks. 
Charlie


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Charles Powell
 

Bill,
The Mechanical Department used them to fill out the car repair billing forms used to report the repairs made to cars on the RIP tracks. 
Charlie


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Bill Schafer
 

That’s the point of the article, which will explain why they were no longer required by 1978.

On May 27, 2021, at 10:19, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

By 1978, train crews weren't required to use the red LDX pens for 612's, but there were still plenty of them around. <IMG_2551_Edited_.jpg>


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Michael Roderick
 

Carl:

That just reminds me of the US Government Skillcraft pens that I used from being in the service.

Mike 




On May 27, 2021, at 10:19, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

By 1978, train crews weren't required to use the red LDX pens for 612's, but there were still plenty of them around.
<IMG_2551_Edited_.jpg>


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Carl Ardrey
 

By 1978, train crews weren't required to use the red LDX pens for 612's, but there were still plenty of them around.


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Bill Schafer
 

"Remember the red ball point pens for time tickets?

Oh, do we remember those red ball point pens! The ones that would leak in your shirt pocket. 

The story of those pens and their history is a tale that I have been meaning to write up for TIES Magazine, because those pens were special for a reason - their ink was specially formulated to reproduce well in the LDX system. 

If anyone remembers using those pens - or being required to use those pens - please send me your recollections. When did you use them? Why did you use them? Did you use them for all your writing needs or just for certain forms or functions? Your recollections will add greatly to the article. 

If there are enough responses, we may want to start a new thread. 

Thanks.

—Bill Schafer


On May 26, 2021, at 22:35, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

Unaware of any.
CEA


On May 26, 2021, at 9:31 PM, Byron Osborn <bosborn10@...> wrote:

Carl are any of the conductor's books available on line?  I am really interested in any from the AGS since I lived along the AGS in Collinsville, AL.


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Carl Ardrey
 

Unaware of any.
CEA


On May 26, 2021, at 9:31 PM, Byron Osborn <bosborn10@...> wrote:

Carl are any of the conductor's books available on line?  I am really interested in any from the AGS since I lived along the AGS in Collinsville, AL.


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Byron Osborn
 

Carl are any of the conductor's books available on line?  I am really interested in any from the AGS since I lived along the AGS in Collinsville, AL.


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Tom Holley
 

Hello, list.

Thank you for all the information and the forms. On MidSouth and KCS we had a wheel report, just like an NS consist now, but from the caboose up. It's funny how different railroads call the same thing different names. I did find in my collection a CG switch list serving as a wheel report for train 71. That was some great information y'all shared.

Carl, I remember the 612s from Coosa Pines well. Remember the red ball point pens for time tickets?

Thanks again, gentlemen.

Regards,

Tom Holley


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Michael Young
 

I have something that although it says Train Book on the cover, is actually a Train Order Book covering orders issued on the Charleston Division between July 7-14, 1947.  At that time, dispatching over the "Peavine" (SB-Line) Kingville, SC to Marion, NC was still being done by telegraph.  Everything was written by fountain pen, and deciphering it is akin to unlocking the Dead Sea Scrolls.  Apparently at times they were writing very quickly.  I also have the ETT and rule book in effect at that time.  I always wanted to do a .pdf document compilation showing the original pages and their translation, with supporting references, and donate it to SRHA if they wanted to make it available as a reference/educational tool on how dispatching was done in those days.  Of course there are many engine numbers mentioned in the orders, which might be of interest too.
Mike Young


-----Original Message-----
From: A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...>
To: Jason Greene <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, May 26, 2021 4:55 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Blank Wheel Report

Attached are both blank and filled in versions from Conductor HF Snow circa 1934.  It was an official form 714, but was apparently called a Train Book.  However, needs must, and Conductor Snow also used a  "Car Book" that only had blue-ruled lines, like college notebook paper, bound into a pasteboard cover sized to fit a pocket (about 10" tall, but only a 4-5 inches wide when closed).   I also have examples of the engineer time/delay books, which are more (to my mind) like checkbooks or police ticket books--they have a bound stub with perforations to detach a report for double bookkeeping.

A proper history of the evolution of paper work and later computer work of tracking trains and cars and shipments would probably fill a 10-12 volume.  The Southern wasn't just innovative in terms of freight car and MoW equipment.  They did all kinds of interesting and innovative things around subjects that might put the usual "railfan" to sleep, but is certainly of historical interest.

Dave

Tuesday, May 25, 2021, 7:42:17 PM, you wrote:


Could you share with us all and Tom explain how they work?

Jason Greene


On May 25, 2021, at 7:22 PM, Tom Holley via groups.io <th498@...> wrote:

Hello, Warren.

Yes, that is exactly the form I'm looking for. A TA&G form would be fine, and I sure would appreciate it.

Regards,

Tom Holley



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Attached are both blank and filled in versions from Conductor HF Snow circa 1934.  It was an official form 714, but was apparently called a Train Book.  However, needs must, and Conductor Snow also used a  "Car Book" that only had blue-ruled lines, like college notebook paper, bound into a pasteboard cover sized to fit a pocket (about 10" tall, but only a 4-5 inches wide when closed).   I also have examples of the engineer time/delay books, which are more (to my mind) like checkbooks or police ticket books--they have a bound stub with perforations to detach a report for double bookkeeping.

A proper history of the evolution of paper work and later computer work of tracking trains and cars and shipments would probably fill a 10-12 volume.  The Southern wasn't just innovative in terms of freight car and MoW equipment.  They did all kinds of interesting and innovative things around subjects that might put the usual "railfan" to sleep, but is certainly of historical interest.

Dave

Tuesday, May 25, 2021, 7:42:17 PM, you wrote:


Could you share with us all and Tom explain how they work?

Jason Greene


On May 25, 2021, at 7:22 PM, Tom Holley via groups.io <th498@...> wrote:

Hello, Warren.

Yes, that is exactly the form I'm looking for. A TA&G form would be fine, and I sure would appreciate it.

Regards,

Tom Holley



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Carl Ardrey
 

I hired out on the AGS in 1978 and we never saw a wheel report.  All we had was a stack of waybills and a block consist.  Hand written switch lists on the locals.  Local conductors had to fill out form 612's for each industry to show pull/place times.
CEA

On 05/26/2021 1:27 PM Michael Young via groups.io <michaeljy@...> wrote:
 
 
It's been almost 50 years, so some details might be wrong, but here is what I remember from "sitting in" at Andrews Yard (Columbia SC) in 1972.  Computers were just beginning to be used, and only trains 156/157, the "Bean Train" from Savannah to Pot Yard, received a computer-generated consist via teletype.  A Block Consist form was completed to go with it, I'm attaching a copy of one for 157 in December 1972. I do not recall ever hearing the term "Wheel Report" ever being used by anyone at any time, but that's not to say it wasn't, I just don't recall ever hearing it.  All other freight trains leaving Columbia received consists that were handwritten on regular Switch Lists.  I have a stack of blank SOU Switch Lists somewhere in my archives.  After completion by yard clerks, they were sent to the Yardmaster for review.  I was in the tower one day when the lists for the local working the "C&G" (as the V-Line to Greenville was known). It was the biggest stack I had ever seen for a train, and I commented to YM Stokes that I was unaware there was that much business on that line. He responded that that was the hardest working job out of Columbia, that they always had a heavy train with lots of pickups and set-offs to do, and that they'd be lucky if they could complete it all without going on the law.  Of course, almost all of the V-Line is gone today.  After I made the fateful decision to hire out with Amtrak in 1973, I became familiar with SCL operations.  They had a standard one-page form, the "Conductor's Handled & Delay Report," which conductors turned in at the end of their runs, and which I sometimes heard them refer to as a "Wheel Report."  It was a combination form used by both passenger and freight conductors, and I probably read hundreds of them to dispatchers over the years, all from passenger trains.  It did not list any cars in the consist, only engine numbers, number of pickups/set-offs and total cars handled, including tonnage (for freight trains) and passenger counts when applicable.  It also listed any en route delays with explanations, and that was the only thing dispatchers were interested in for passenger trains.  I did overhear SCL operators reporting freight trains and they included car counts and tonnage.  Ninety percent of the time, those forms were referred to as "Delay Reports" by passenger conductors, although occasionally one would say, "Here's my Wheel Report."  But I never saw any form on either Southern or SCL that was officially identified as a "Wheel Report."  If this is all TMI, I apologize, but I post to the group so rarely, I tend to get carried away, LOL.
Mike Young


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Holley via groups.io <th498@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Wed, May 26, 2021 1:12 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Blank Wheel Report

Hello Jason and list.

This is an explanation of a wheel report from the GNHS:

Before computers a wheel report was simply a high-class train list. It was a compendium of all cars handled by a particular crew between that crews' initial and final terminal. On most roads when the train got to a terminal, the conductor would file one copy of the wheel report with the yardmaster (or actually with his office staff) and another copy with all the waybills for the cars would be delivered to the connecting conductor. The connecting conductor would write a new wheel report for his crew, and so on. Specific practice varied from road to road but this is an overview in general of how it was handled. At designated terminals a clerk would take each wheel report and "bible" every car in the train - enter it in a large book with column headings for car numbers running from tens to thousands. For example NYC 200138 would be entered (depending on road) either under "2001" column or under "38" column. That way if somebody wanted a trace on the car it could be found, and information passed along that it went through terminal Podunk at 4am Dec 21.

This explains it better than I ever could.

Regards,

Tom Holley


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Michael Young
 

It's been almost 50 years, so some details might be wrong, but here is what I remember from "sitting in" at Andrews Yard (Columbia SC) in 1972.  Computers were just beginning to be used, and only trains 156/157, the "Bean Train" from Savannah to Pot Yard, received a computer-generated consist via teletype.  A Block Consist form was completed to go with it, I'm attaching a copy of one for 157 in December 1972. I do not recall ever hearing the term "Wheel Report" ever being used by anyone at any time, but that's not to say it wasn't, I just don't recall ever hearing it.  All other freight trains leaving Columbia received consists that were handwritten on regular Switch Lists.  I have a stack of blank SOU Switch Lists somewhere in my archives.  After completion by yard clerks, they were sent to the Yardmaster for review.  I was in the tower one day when the lists for the local working the "C&G" (as the V-Line to Greenville was known). It was the biggest stack I had ever seen for a train, and I commented to YM Stokes that I was unaware there was that much business on that line. He responded that that was the hardest working job out of Columbia, that they always had a heavy train with lots of pickups and set-offs to do, and that they'd be lucky if they could complete it all without going on the law.  Of course, almost all of the V-Line is gone today.  After I made the fateful decision to hire out with Amtrak in 1973, I became familiar with SCL operations.  They had a standard one-page form, the "Conductor's Handled & Delay Report," which conductors turned in at the end of their runs, and which I sometimes heard them refer to as a "Wheel Report."  It was a combination form used by both passenger and freight conductors, and I probably read hundreds of them to dispatchers over the years, all from passenger trains.  It did not list any cars in the consist, only engine numbers, number of pickups/set-offs and total cars handled, including tonnage (for freight trains) and passenger counts when applicable.  It also listed any en route delays with explanations, and that was the only thing dispatchers were interested in for passenger trains.  I did overhear SCL operators reporting freight trains and they included car counts and tonnage.  Ninety percent of the time, those forms were referred to as "Delay Reports" by passenger conductors, although occasionally one would say, "Here's my Wheel Report."  But I never saw any form on either Southern or SCL that was officially identified as a "Wheel Report."  If this is all TMI, I apologize, but I post to the group so rarely, I tend to get carried away, LOL.
Mike Young


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Holley via groups.io <th498@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Wed, May 26, 2021 1:12 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Blank Wheel Report

Hello Jason and list.

This is an explanation of a wheel report from the GNHS:

Before computers a wheel report was simply a high-class train list. It was a compendium of all cars handled by a particular crew between that crews' initial and final terminal. On most roads when the train got to a terminal, the conductor would file one copy of the wheel report with the yardmaster (or actually with his office staff) and another copy with all the waybills for the cars would be delivered to the connecting conductor. The connecting conductor would write a new wheel report for his crew, and so on. Specific practice varied from road to road but this is an overview in general of how it was handled. At designated terminals a clerk would take each wheel report and "bible" every car in the train - enter it in a large book with column headings for car numbers running from tens to thousands. For example NYC 200138 would be entered (depending on road) either under "2001" column or under "38" column. That way if somebody wanted a trace on the car it could be found, and information passed along that it went through terminal Podunk at 4am Dec 21.

This explains it better than I ever could.

Regards,

Tom Holley


locked Re: Blank Wheel Report

Carl Ardrey
 

On SOU conductors used a book issued by company to record their wheel reports.  We have many copies of these books, with entries, from the ‘50’s in the archives.
CEA


On May 26, 2021, at 12:12 PM, Tom Holley via groups.io <th498@...> wrote:

Hello Jason and list.

This is an explanation of a wheel report from the GNHS:

Before computers a wheel report was simply a high-class train list. It was a compendium of all cars handled by a particular crew between that crews' initial and final terminal. On most roads when the train got to a terminal, the conductor would file one copy of the wheel report with the yardmaster (or actually with his office staff) and another copy with all the waybills for the cars would be delivered to the connecting conductor. The connecting conductor would write a new wheel report for his crew, and so on. Specific practice varied from road to road but this is an overview in general of how it was handled. At designated terminals a clerk would take each wheel report and "bible" every car in the train - enter it in a large book with column headings for car numbers running from tens to thousands. For example NYC 200138 would be entered (depending on road) either under "2001" column or under "38" column. That way if somebody wanted a trace on the car it could be found, and information passed along that it went through terminal Podunk at 4am Dec 21.

This explains it better than I ever could.

Regards,

Tom Holley

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