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Ike

Re: Southern Ry modernized coaches  From: Nancy Boots Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2021 11:15:52 PDT  Time to add in my nickel (I expect change for my 2 cents) on the information I know on the SOUTHERN 1000 series modernized coaches. In the days before Amtrak started the NECIP and bumped the speeds up on the Corridor, the Southnern would send the 1000 series coaches up to New York on the Crescent. Probably used them for large group travel as overflow cars. The cars came up as a head end move on trains 172 and 173, a through Boston - Washington run.  The road crew that brought the train up would cut the Southern cars (from Birmingham or New Orleans / Los Angeles) off in Penn Station and take them to Sunnyside Yard. The New Haven crew would be ready with another engine to take the remainder of the train to New Haven for the diesel change. Usually the Southern cars would lay-over in the yard for the next day move south on 173, being a head end add-on and engine change of the arriving Boston section. However, when we got the 1000 series (mainly 1030 and 1040 series numbers as I remember, more later) they would be brought back to Penn Station and added that night to #67 Night Owl to deadhead back to the Southern Rwy. Since the connection to the Piedmont was tight, they probably went on the Crescent that night. One such event happened  back in 1974, I was going up to Cumberland, MD for a weekend. The only way to connect to the Blue Ridge (ex-C&O coach and coach-dinette) was to take the Owl down to Washington. I had the good luck of that being a night we had to deadhead the extra Southern Rwy cars back. I grabbed a pair of seats in one of the cars (SR 1041) and by the time we were added to 67 and started rolling, I was in a good sleep. The 6 wheel trucks made up for more than a smooth ride.  The seats were similar to the 800 series streamline coaches, so must have been an upgrade when the cars were rebuilt. All the coaches on the Eastern railroads were NOT really overnight cars like the Western railroads had. Most all were a higher capacity usually upwards of 50 seats AND NO EASTERN RAILROAD CARS EVER HAD LEG RESTS. Overnighters on things like Florida and Chicago trains "had to make do" without or only the small "pigeon perch" foot rest bar on the seat ahead. In fact the "leg rest horror" was brought to light by the ire of railfans when Penn Central bought 6 former Union Pacific 4400 series coaches in 1970.  They were used on the Broadway Limited since PC had no good overnight type coaches after the PRR P-85B cars went to junk. Of course, PC, not knowing what "they" were, promptly REMOVED all the leg rests from under the seats, so passengers were forced to endure an uncomfortable cramped up ride instead of being able to stretch out. Of course, "some" divisions, when they changed train crews, "just happened to  be" overnight, and some of the Conductors being scummer low-life's would put ALL the coach lights on, and bounce people around to wake them and check their tickets..........Yes, PC was one of "them" who fit what one Information Booth clerk in Penn Station told a customer..."You don't like the train service, Greyhound Bus Terminal is at 8th Ave & 42nd Street" The Southern heavyweights stopped after 1975, as most were in the Steam Excursion Program, so when extra cars were needed on the Crescent, we would see the cars of Central of Georgia (the Man O'War and some Nancy Hanks cars) that Southern had taken over from their roster. I looked at the pictures I had of the cars and all taken in the same 6 month time period...cars 1035, 1039, 1040 and 1044 all had friction bearing trucks, while my shot of 1034 is roller bearing t6rucks. There may have been others, or trucks swapped around, but these are ones I know of. Doug

Tim, I recall us talking about it years ago. If I remember, you had a lot of information on dispositions and my strength was the early Southern Railway passenger cars. I still would like to do something, but my research priorities are topics which have more general relevance. However I still get excited (like solving a puzzle) if I find out something new concerning cars from predecessor lines. We need to get someone with database expertise to help us get this thing set up.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, June 3, 2021, 11:22:47 AM EDT, TIM ANDREWS <andrewstim@...> wrote:

I also worked on an all time roster of Southern Railway passenger cars. my last print out came from dBase IV and is dated over twenty years ago.  It would seem that between the archives and some work done by individuals we should be able to take another stab at it using the tools that are available now.

On Thursday, June 3, 2021, 09:44:22 AM EDT, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

Tim, thanks for finding the answer. Years ago when I was trying to create an all time roster of Southern Railway passenger cars, a similar renumbering incident, number 1367 in your list, bedeviled me. The original Southern 1367 was a coach built by Pullman in 1909. Therefore I refer to the excursion car as No. 1367 (2nd).

Jack Wyatt 

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021, 10:12:09 PM EDT, TIM ANDREWS <andrewstim@...> wrote:

From the SRHA archives today comes the following from the car maintenance record for car 3659 and dated 11/1/1966

Using the diagram book from Another Man's Treasure we see that the car was originally 1632 which fits the series reported by Jack Wyatt.  According to Diagram 30-F-38 the car was built by Bethlehem 1924 was air conditioned in May of 1939 had Green Frieze Pat. 60 upholstery, the "8-3 interior color scheme and the tile #101 and 107 aisle stripe". It weighted 149,600 pounds.  From the diagram it had walk over seats and seated 72.  Although the date is not given on diagram 31-F-51 dated 12/7/48 the car received reclining seats and reconfigured restrooms and was renumbered 1083.  The seating was dropped to 48 seats.  26 cars received this conversion, some at Hayne and some at Chattanooga.

Seeing as how the seating was raised to 72 reclining seats and the restrooms were removed, we would assume that took place around 1966.

It is interesting to note that the 1058 on the list above is now at TVRM and still has the large restrooms and lower seating capacity.

I will keep digging through stuff and see what else I can find.

On Wednesday, June 2, 2021, 05:18:23 PM EDT, Stephen Warner <sgwarner88@...> wrote:

Having rode these cars starting in 1960 all the way through the end of SR's scheduled service (on the Knoxville Division and CNO&TP), I can say that you have an "original" car interior, at least through the 1950's or so.  I also rode many of these cars that SR "upgraded" from the globe lights and steel overhead racks with newer streamline/modernized-type racks and fluorescent lighting (harsh and glaring at night).  I always felt that I was riding Southern back in the 30's in these cars (after all, it was still Timetable and train order operation back then), and tried to pick out one in the consist whenever I climbed on.  She will look great.