Date   

locked Re: Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Robert Hanson
 

This wreck received about 10 pages of coverage, including photos, in Katie Letcher Lyle's 1983 book, Scalded to Death by the Steam,


-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 3:32 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Initial report from president's files in SRHA archives.


locked Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Carl Ardrey
 

Initial report from president's files in SRHA archives.


locked Re: Southern Single Sheated Boxcars

George Eichelberger
 

I agree with Dave, I am not aware of any Southern single sheathed USRA box cars. Although USRA allocated some number of them to the Southern, that information might be found on a USRA published list but it is incorrect. The Southern did not want/need the cars because it was happy with the many thousands of 36’ box cars it had and it did not want to take on financing for the cars.

I have to go back and look at my own posts as I forgot how they “negotiated” some other cars from USRA in lieu of the SS cars. (Hoppers, gons and drop-bottom gons (“coal cars”) were what the Southern needed in the late teens and early 20s.

Ike

PS There will be a SRHA archives work session next Fri and Sat. I will be there Thursday afternoon if someone wants to come by then....please send an email to archives@... (and have your Covid vaccination) if you plan to be there.



On Jun 11, 2021, at 11:27 AM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

Allen,

I can’t recall any Southern single sheathed cars. Maybe some were forced on them by USRA or they inherited from an acquisition? I will follow along to see me proved wrong.

Dave Bott


On Jun 11, 2021, at 11:23 AM, Allen Cain <allencaintn@...> wrote:


I apologize for the cross postings.  And yes, I did do my own research on this but came up blank so appreciate any help that I can get from anyone so here goes.

Did the Southern own and operate any single sheathed boxcars in the mid-1955?

And if so, does anyone have pictures to share?

And if so, does any of the new Rapido boxcars match what the Southern had?  Here is a link:


And finally, if all of the above is yes, who makes the correct decals?

Thank you!

--
Allen Cain

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


locked Re: Sn3 7-58

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

According to the list compiled on the Steam Freighcars list, "SR" was Spencer. "SN" doesn't show up at all, though that group does not really consider anything after about 1960, A car reweighed at Spartanburg would probably be "HE" for Hayne Shops.  

Aidrian

On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 4:09 AM C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
What I am seeing is Sn 3-58. Looks like a reweigh date. Would Sn be Spencer? 

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, June 10, 2021, 10:47:25 PM EDT, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


I saw a K4 decal for the twin hoppers.  On it is the above lettering.  Sn3 and the date.  Also that it was built in 1937.  I'm assuming that this Sn refers to either a repaint or a later shopping date.  But I'm unfamiliar with Sn3?

Was this a shop on the old Southern and if so, where was it?  My best guess is Spartanburg, South Carolina.  I do know back then most hopper work was done at the Costner Shops in Knoxville.  Was Spartanburg a repaint shop?

Thanks,
George Courtney


locked Re: Southern Single Sheated Boxcars

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

None on the Southern, however several connecting roads did have them, with PRR and NYC probably among the most likely to show up. Clinchfield, C&O, N&W, and AB&C are others that I can think of without looking anything up, though the C&O cars got radial roofs later in life

Aidrian

On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 4:23 PM Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:
I apologize for the cross postings.  And yes, I did do my own research on this but came up blank so appreciate any help that I can get from anyone so here goes.

Did the Southern own and operate any single sheathed boxcars in the mid-1955?

And if so, does anyone have pictures to share?

And if so, does any of the new Rapido boxcars match what the Southern had?  Here is a link:


And finally, if all of the above is yes, who makes the correct decals?

Thank you!

--
Allen Cain

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


locked Re: Southern Single Sheated Boxcars

O Fenton Wells
 

No, Southern Had no 40 ft OB boxcars.


On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 11:27 AM A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:
Allen,

I can’t recall any Southern single sheathed cars. Maybe some were forced on them by USRA or they inherited from an acquisition? I will follow along to see me proved wrong.

Dave Bott


On Jun 11, 2021, at 11:23 AM, Allen Cain <allencaintn@...> wrote:


I apologize for the cross postings.  And yes, I did do my own research on this but came up blank so appreciate any help that I can get from anyone so here goes.

Did the Southern own and operate any single sheathed boxcars in the mid-1955?

And if so, does anyone have pictures to share?

And if so, does any of the new Rapido boxcars match what the Southern had?  Here is a link:


And finally, if all of the above is yes, who makes the correct decals?

Thank you!

--
Allen Cain

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


locked Re: Southern Single Sheated Boxcars

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Allen,

I can’t recall any Southern single sheathed cars. Maybe some were forced on them by USRA or they inherited from an acquisition? I will follow along to see me proved wrong.

Dave Bott


On Jun 11, 2021, at 11:23 AM, Allen Cain <allencaintn@...> wrote:


I apologize for the cross postings.  And yes, I did do my own research on this but came up blank so appreciate any help that I can get from anyone so here goes.

Did the Southern own and operate any single sheathed boxcars in the mid-1955?

And if so, does anyone have pictures to share?

And if so, does any of the new Rapido boxcars match what the Southern had?  Here is a link:


And finally, if all of the above is yes, who makes the correct decals?

Thank you!

--
Allen Cain

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


locked Southern Single Sheated Boxcars

Allen Cain
 

I apologize for the cross postings.  And yes, I did do my own research on this but came up blank so appreciate any help that I can get from anyone so here goes.

Did the Southern own and operate any single sheathed boxcars in the mid-1955?

And if so, does anyone have pictures to share?

And if so, does any of the new Rapido boxcars match what the Southern had?  Here is a link:


And finally, if all of the above is yes, who makes the correct decals?

Thank you!

--
Allen Cain

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


locked Re: Sn3 7-58

C J Wyatt
 

What I am seeing is Sn 3-58. Looks like a reweigh date. Would Sn be Spencer? 

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, June 10, 2021, 10:47:25 PM EDT, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3@...> wrote:


I saw a K4 decal for the twin hoppers.  On it is the above lettering.  Sn3 and the date.  Also that it was built in 1937.  I'm assuming that this Sn refers to either a repaint or a later shopping date.  But I'm unfamiliar with Sn3?

Was this a shop on the old Southern and if so, where was it?  My best guess is Spartanburg, South Carolina.  I do know back then most hopper work was done at the Costner Shops in Knoxville.  Was Spartanburg a repaint shop?

Thanks,
George Courtney


locked Sn3 7-58

George Courtney
 

I saw a K4 decal for the twin hoppers.  On it is the above lettering.  Sn3 and the date.  Also that it was built in 1937.  I'm assuming that this Sn refers to either a repaint or a later shopping date.  But I'm unfamiliar with Sn3?

Was this a shop on the old Southern and if so, where was it?  My best guess is Spartanburg, South Carolina.  I do know back then most hopper work was done at the Costner Shops in Knoxville.  Was Spartanburg a repaint shop?

Thanks,
George Courtney


locked Re: Balsam

Michael Young
 

Stephen, did some googling and was disappointed to find reports on Yelp that the hotel has closed.  All interior furnishings were removed/sold in December 2020, and the building is currently for sale.  The Grand Old Lady website now links to what is apparently an auto body repair shop.  (I got a warning from Chrome security and decided not to continue to the site.)  It's sad, I was already planning a trip there in my mind.
Mike Young


-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Warner <sgwarner88@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jun 9, 2021 10:46 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Balsam

Mike, that is the Balsam Inn, built sometime around 1905, if I recall correctly.  It was a summer retreat for northern city folk who came down on trains.  Their trunks were ferried up the hill to the lodge.  The lodge’s hallways even today are wide enough for their steamer trunks to stay outside their door.  Until a previous owner refurbished the Inn, it had no heat, as it was a summer lodge.  When a local college was upgrading their systems, she bought the old furnace and radiator system and installed it, so it became a year-round Inn.  If I recall correctly, the depot was moved across from the Inn a ways away, up on a hill, and was used as a B&B (I stayed there one time).  Until COVID, we often stayed at the Balsam Inn (the front 3rd floor corner rooms are best), and from the huge porch watched the NS local top the hill (sometimes not stopping to set retainers) before going to Bryson.  You can check on the status today.  While it is “rustic/historic”, renovations are eclectic and whimsical, but nice.  I personally recommend it, although it is not your Marriott or Four Seasons.


locked Re: Balsam

Stephen Warner
 

Mike, that is the Balsam Inn, built sometime around 1905, if I recall correctly.  It was a summer retreat for northern city folk who came down on trains.  Their trunks were ferried up the hill to the lodge.  The lodge’s hallways even today are wide enough for their steamer trunks to stay outside their door.  Until a previous owner refurbished the Inn, it had no heat, as it was a summer lodge.  When a local college was upgrading their systems, she bought the old furnace and radiator system and installed it, so it became a year-round Inn.  If I recall correctly, the depot was moved across from the Inn a ways away, up on a hill, and was used as a B&B (I stayed there one time).  Until COVID, we often stayed at the Balsam Inn (the front 3rd floor corner rooms are best), and from the huge porch watched the NS local top the hill (sometimes not stopping to set retainers) before going to Bryson.  You can check on the status today.  While it is “rustic/historic”, renovations are eclectic and whimsical, but nice.  I personally recommend it, although it is not your Marriott or Four Seasons.


locked Balsam

Mike Pierry, Jr.
 

Returning from a most pleasant photo shoot of GSMR 1702 at Bryson City, NC I turned in to see the "highest track elevation on the Southern" at Balsam. Found where the station once stood and was quite surprised to see the big hotel on a hill above: "The Grand Old Lady". Was this structure built back in the day when folks took the train up into the western Carolina mountains to escape the summer heat? And, was it built by the Southern?

Mike Pierry, Jr.


locked Re: stock trains on Southern

Charles Powell
 

When were the last movements of livestock on Southern? We lived by the K&O line in Knoxville from 56-64 and I remember seeing an occasional stock car in a train. We moved to Chattanooga in July of 64. There were covered stock pens by the crest of the hump at the yard. My Dad would pick up his paycheck at work and when the check came on his off days he would go pick it up. I would always go along and after getting the check at the yard office Dad would often drive through the yard or down by the diesel shop for my entertainment.  I recall that on one of these trips in probably 64 or 65 as we came out of the yard office we heard the baaa of sheep coming from the stock pens. That had to have been near the end for within a couple of years the Signal Dept. was using the stock pens for material storage.

Charlie


locked Re: stock trains on Southern

Matt Bumgarner
 

At the SE Narrow Gauge Museum this past weekend we were opening and cleaning out our 40ft SR boxcar/shop and one of our volunteers worked at a furniture factory in Lenoir, NC along the Carolina & North-Western.
It seems that in the mid to late 70's, he and his co-workers opened a 40-footer and found the floor littered with straw and cow manure... somebody at some point had used this in service boxcar as a cattle car!

Interesting anecdote.

Matt Bumgarner

On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 10:13 AM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Bob:

Although not many, there are records, photos and drawings of Southern stock pens in the archives, including the Harrisonburg Branch.

Ike




On Jun 6, 2021, at 9:59 AM, Cohen Bob via groups.io <orl96782@...> wrote:

Regarding stock trains or stock extras as they were sometimes referred to:

I know that SR's Harrisonburg Branch had them and that 27 or so miles away in Potomac Yard there were stock pens at one time, not to mention stock pens at many of the stations along the line. They also had icing platforms for the reefers and I suspect those may have also been used to cool off the subjects of this discussion sometimes in summer.

There were certain rules to be followed regarding these special trains, chiefly as I recall that the cars had to halted at least every 24 hours and emptied and the animals given a chance not just to be fed and watered but also cooled for at least 24 hours before proceeding to the next location in their travels.

Many of the stations had quite extensive stock pens as the local farmers would drive their herds literally to market or the local pen in this case. Harrisonburg as one place in particular even still has auctions but of course those animals are brought and taken away by truck.

By the early 1950's the practice of the stock trains and extras had become far fewer and by the late 1950's I have been told, were the last such trains for whatever the animals were: cattle, hogs, sheep, maybe even horses.

If you know where to look along that 111 mile long line even today, you can figure out where some of these once important things were located. Many have long since disappeared. In Mt. Jackson in the 1917 period I seem to recall, health issues started to become a factor as the odor (putting it mildly here) as well as the leftovers from the animals had become a serious problem. Other depots like New Market were several miles out of town and that presented less of a problem. However when the wind blew JUST right ........ oh never mind, you can get the idea.

Further south in the area south of Broadway, the Daphna valley region, used to be sheep country and I am told, still is. In Linville, the next depot south from there and the last before Harrisonburg is even today, rendering plant where the station once was.

Bob Cohen


locked Re: stock trains on Southern

George Eichelberger
 

Bob:

Although not many, there are records, photos and drawings of Southern stock pens in the archives, including the Harrisonburg Branch.

Ike




On Jun 6, 2021, at 9:59 AM, Cohen Bob via groups.io <orl96782@...> wrote:

Regarding stock trains or stock extras as they were sometimes referred to:

I know that SR's Harrisonburg Branch had them and that 27 or so miles away in Potomac Yard there were stock pens at one time, not to mention stock pens at many of the stations along the line. They also had icing platforms for the reefers and I suspect those may have also been used to cool off the subjects of this discussion sometimes in summer.

There were certain rules to be followed regarding these special trains, chiefly as I recall that the cars had to halted at least every 24 hours and emptied and the animals given a chance not just to be fed and watered but also cooled for at least 24 hours before proceeding to the next location in their travels.

Many of the stations had quite extensive stock pens as the local farmers would drive their herds literally to market or the local pen in this case. Harrisonburg as one place in particular even still has auctions but of course those animals are brought and taken away by truck.

By the early 1950's the practice of the stock trains and extras had become far fewer and by the late 1950's I have been told, were the last such trains for whatever the animals were: cattle, hogs, sheep, maybe even horses.

If you know where to look along that 111 mile long line even today, you can figure out where some of these once important things were located. Many have long since disappeared. In Mt. Jackson in the 1917 period I seem to recall, health issues started to become a factor as the odor (putting it mildly here) as well as the leftovers from the animals had become a serious problem. Other depots like New Market were several miles out of town and that presented less of a problem. However when the wind blew JUST right ........ oh never mind, you can get the idea.

Further south in the area south of Broadway, the Daphna valley region, used to be sheep country and I am told, still is. In Linville, the next depot south from there and the last before Harrisonburg is even today, rendering plant where the station once was.

Bob Cohen


locked stock trains on Southern

Cohen Bob
 

Regarding stock trains or stock extras as they were sometimes referred to:

I know that SR's Harrisonburg Branch had them and that 27 or so miles away in Potomac Yard there were stock pens at one time, not to mention stock pens at many of the stations along the line. They also had icing platforms for the reefers and I suspect those may have also been used to cool off the subjects of this discussion sometimes in summer.

There were certain rules to be followed regarding these special trains, chiefly as I recall that the cars had to halted at least every 24 hours and emptied and the animals given a chance not just to be fed and watered but also cooled for at least 24 hours before proceeding to the next location in their travels.

Many of the stations had quite extensive stock pens as the local farmers would drive their herds literally to market or the local pen in this case. Harrisonburg as one place in particular even still has auctions but of course those animals are brought and taken away by truck.

By the early 1950's the practice of the stock trains and extras had become far fewer and by the late 1950's I have been told, were the last such trains for whatever the animals were: cattle, hogs, sheep, maybe even horses.

If you know where to look along that 111 mile long line even today, you can figure out where some of these once important things were located. Many have long since disappeared. In Mt. Jackson in the 1917 period I seem to recall, health issues started to become a factor as the odor (putting it mildly here) as well as the leftovers from the animals had become a serious problem. Other depots like New Market were several miles out of town and that presented less of a problem. However when the wind blew JUST right ........ oh never mind, you can get the idea.

Further south in the area south of Broadway, the Daphna valley region, used to be sheep country and I am told, still is. In Linville, the next depot south from there and the last before Harrisonburg is even today, rendering plant where the station once was.

Bob Cohen


locked Re: From the PCL

George Eichelberger
 

Andy:

It’s another of the excellent “groups.io” forums….PassengerCarList@groups.io.

Ike


On Jun 6, 2021, at 9:51 AM, aramsay18 <aramsay37@...> wrote:

What/where is the PCL? Thanks in advance.

Andy Ramsay
Berryville VA

On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 9:21 AM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


All:

This just posted on the PCL…

Ike



locked Re: From the PCL

aramsay18
 

What/where is the PCL? Thanks in advance.

Andy Ramsay
Berryville VA

On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 9:21 AM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


All:

This just posted on the PCL…

Ike


Re: Southern Ry modernized coaches 
From: Nancy Boots
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2021 11:15:52 PDT 

Time to add in my nickel (I expect change for my 2 cents) on the information I know on the SOUTHERN 1000 series modernized coaches.

In the days before Amtrak started the NECIP and bumped the speeds up on the Corridor, the Southnern would send the 1000 series coaches up to New York on the Crescent. Probably used them for large group travel as overflow cars. The cars came up as a head end move on trains 172 and 173, a through Boston - Washington run. 

The road crew that brought the train up would cut the Southern cars (from Birmingham or New Orleans / Los Angeles) off in Penn Station and take them to Sunnyside Yard. The New Haven crew would be ready with another engine to take the remainder of the train to New Haven for the diesel change. Usually the Southern cars would lay-over in the yard for the next day move south on 173, being a head end add-on and engine change of the arriving Boston section.

However, when we got the 1000 series (mainly 1030 and 1040 series numbers as I remember, more later) they would be brought back to Penn Station and added that night to #67 Night Owl to deadhead back to the Southern Rwy. Since the connection to the Piedmont was tight, they probably went on the Crescent that night.
One such event happened  back in 1974, I was going up to Cumberland, MD for a weekend. The only way to connect to the Blue Ridge (ex-C&O coach and coach-dinette) was to take the Owl down to Washington. I had the good luck of that being a night we had to deadhead the extra Southern Rwy cars back. I grabbed a pair of seats in one of the cars (SR 1041) and by the time we were added to 67 and started rolling, I was in a good sleep. The 6 wheel trucks made up for more than a smooth ride. 

The seats were similar to the 800 series streamline coaches, so must have been an upgrade when the cars were rebuilt. All the coaches on the Eastern railroads were NOT really overnight cars like the Western railroads had. Most all were a higher capacity usually upwards of 50 seats AND NO EASTERN RAILROAD CARS EVER HAD LEG RESTS. Overnighters on things like Florida and Chicago trains "had to make do" without or only the small "pigeon perch" foot rest bar on the seat ahead. In fact the "leg rest horror" was brought to light by the ire of railfans when Penn Central bought 6 former Union Pacific 4400 series coaches in 1970.  They were used on the Broadway Limited since PC had no good overnight type coaches after the PRR P-85B cars went to junk. Of course, PC, not knowing what "they" were, promptly REMOVED all the leg rests from under the seats, so passengers were forced to endure an uncomfortable cramped up ride instead of being able to stretch out. Of course, "some" divisions, when they changed train crews, "just happened to  be" overnight, and some of the Conductors being scummer low-life's would put ALL the coach lights on, and bounce people around to wake them and check their tickets..........Yes, PC was one of "them" who fit what one Information Booth clerk in Penn Station told a customer..."You don't like the train service, Greyhound Bus Terminal is at 8th Ave & 42nd Street"

The Southern heavyweights stopped after 1975, as most were in the Steam Excursion Program, so when extra cars were needed on the Crescent, we would see the cars of Central of Georgia (the Man O'War and some Nancy Hanks cars) that Southern had taken over from their roster. I looked at the pictures I had of the cars and all taken in the same 6 month time period...cars 1035, 1039, 1040 and 1044 all had friction bearing trucks, while my shot of 1034 is roller bearing t6rucks. There may have been others, or trucks swapped around, but these are ones I know of.

Doug





locked From the PCL

George Eichelberger
 



All:

This just posted on the PCL…

Ike


Re: Southern Ry modernized coaches 
From: Nancy Boots
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2021 11:15:52 PDT 

Time to add in my nickel (I expect change for my 2 cents) on the information I know on the SOUTHERN 1000 series modernized coaches.

In the days before Amtrak started the NECIP and bumped the speeds up on the Corridor, the Southnern would send the 1000 series coaches up to New York on the Crescent. Probably used them for large group travel as overflow cars. The cars came up as a head end move on trains 172 and 173, a through Boston - Washington run. 

The road crew that brought the train up would cut the Southern cars (from Birmingham or New Orleans / Los Angeles) off in Penn Station and take them to Sunnyside Yard. The New Haven crew would be ready with another engine to take the remainder of the train to New Haven for the diesel change. Usually the Southern cars would lay-over in the yard for the next day move south on 173, being a head end add-on and engine change of the arriving Boston section.

However, when we got the 1000 series (mainly 1030 and 1040 series numbers as I remember, more later) they would be brought back to Penn Station and added that night to #67 Night Owl to deadhead back to the Southern Rwy. Since the connection to the Piedmont was tight, they probably went on the Crescent that night.
One such event happened  back in 1974, I was going up to Cumberland, MD for a weekend. The only way to connect to the Blue Ridge (ex-C&O coach and coach-dinette) was to take the Owl down to Washington. I had the good luck of that being a night we had to deadhead the extra Southern Rwy cars back. I grabbed a pair of seats in one of the cars (SR 1041) and by the time we were added to 67 and started rolling, I was in a good sleep. The 6 wheel trucks made up for more than a smooth ride. 

The seats were similar to the 800 series streamline coaches, so must have been an upgrade when the cars were rebuilt. All the coaches on the Eastern railroads were NOT really overnight cars like the Western railroads had. Most all were a higher capacity usually upwards of 50 seats AND NO EASTERN RAILROAD CARS EVER HAD LEG RESTS. Overnighters on things like Florida and Chicago trains "had to make do" without or only the small "pigeon perch" foot rest bar on the seat ahead. In fact the "leg rest horror" was brought to light by the ire of railfans when Penn Central bought 6 former Union Pacific 4400 series coaches in 1970.  They were used on the Broadway Limited since PC had no good overnight type coaches after the PRR P-85B cars went to junk. Of course, PC, not knowing what "they" were, promptly REMOVED all the leg rests from under the seats, so passengers were forced to endure an uncomfortable cramped up ride instead of being able to stretch out. Of course, "some" divisions, when they changed train crews, "just happened to  be" overnight, and some of the Conductors being scummer low-life's would put ALL the coach lights on, and bounce people around to wake them and check their tickets..........Yes, PC was one of "them" who fit what one Information Booth clerk in Penn Station told a customer..."You don't like the train service, Greyhound Bus Terminal is at 8th Ave & 42nd Street"

The Southern heavyweights stopped after 1975, as most were in the Steam Excursion Program, so when extra cars were needed on the Crescent, we would see the cars of Central of Georgia (the Man O'War and some Nancy Hanks cars) that Southern had taken over from their roster. I looked at the pictures I had of the cars and all taken in the same 6 month time period...cars 1035, 1039, 1040 and 1044 all had friction bearing trucks, while my shot of 1034 is roller bearing t6rucks. There may have been others, or trucks swapped around, but these are ones I know of.

Doug




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