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Re: Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904
Robert Hanson
That would be suspicious, Jack.
The book was written by an English professor as a study of ballads and the wrecks that inspired them, it was not written by a railroader or a rail enthusiast.
I agree that it has its shortcomings, but it taught me something.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 6:08 pm Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904 Thanks Bob,
It's an interesting book, but some pictures in her article on the New Market wreck are questionable (e.g. wrecked freight cars in the wreck of two passenger trains).
Jack Wyatt
On Sunday, June 20, 2021, 04:50:26 PM EDT, Robert Hanson via groups.io <rhanson669@...> wrote:
I accidentally hit "send" before I was finished. Sorry.
The previously mentioned book is a study of train wrecks and the ballads written about them.
I don't think it is still in print, but one could probably be found at a show, on ebay, or at Amazon.
Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 3:32 pm Subject: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904 Initial report from president's files in SRHA archives.
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Re: Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904
C J Wyatt
Thanks Bob, It's an interesting book, but some pictures in her article on the New Market wreck are questionable (e.g. wrecked freight cars in the wreck of two passenger trains). Jack Wyatt
On Sunday, June 20, 2021, 04:50:26 PM EDT, Robert Hanson via groups.io <rhanson669@...> wrote:
I accidentally hit "send" before I was finished. Sorry.
The previously mentioned book is a study of train wrecks and the ballads written about them.
I don't think it is still in print, but one could probably be found at a show, on ebay, or at Amazon.
Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 3:32 pm Subject: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904 Initial report from president's files in SRHA archives.
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Re: Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904
Robert Hanson
I accidentally hit "send" before I was finished. Sorry.
The previously mentioned book is a study of train wrecks and the ballads written about them.
I don't think it is still in print, but one could probably be found at a show, on ebay, or at Amazon.
Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 3:32 pm Subject: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904 Initial report from president's files in SRHA archives.
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Re: Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904
Robert Hanson
This wreck received about 10 pages of coverage, including photos, in Katie Letcher Lyle's 1983 book, Scalded to Death by the Steam,
-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 3:32 pm Subject: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904 Initial report from president's files in SRHA archives.
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Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904
Carl Ardrey
Initial report from president's files in SRHA archives.
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Re: Southern Single Sheated Boxcars
George Eichelberger
I agree with Dave, I am not aware of any Southern single sheathed USRA box cars. Although USRA allocated some number of them to the Southern, that information might be found on a USRA published list but it is incorrect. The Southern did not want/need the cars because it was happy with the many thousands of 36’ box cars it had and it did not want to take on financing for the cars.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I have to go back and look at my own posts as I forgot how they “negotiated” some other cars from USRA in lieu of the SS cars. (Hoppers, gons and drop-bottom gons (“coal cars”) were what the Southern needed in the late teens and early 20s. Ike PS There will be a SRHA archives work session next Fri and Sat. I will be there Thursday afternoon if someone wants to come by then....please send an email to archives@... (and have your Covid vaccination) if you plan to be there.
On Jun 11, 2021, at 11:27 AM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote: Allen,
I can’t recall any Southern single sheathed cars. Maybe some were forced on them by USRA or they inherited from an acquisition? I will follow along to see me proved wrong. Dave Bott On Jun 11, 2021, at 11:23 AM, Allen Cain <allencaintn@...> wrote:
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Re: Sn3 7-58
Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
According to the list compiled on the Steam Freighcars list, "SR" was Spencer. "SN" doesn't show up at all, though that group does not really consider anything after about 1960, A car reweighed at Spartanburg would probably be "HE" for Hayne Shops. Aidrian
On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 4:09 AM C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
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Re: Southern Single Sheated Boxcars
Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
None on the Southern, however several connecting roads did have them, with PRR and NYC probably among the most likely to show up. Clinchfield, C&O, N&W, and AB&C are others that I can think of without looking anything up, though the C&O cars got radial roofs later in life Aidrian
On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 4:23 PM Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:
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Re: Southern Single Sheated Boxcars
No, Southern Had no 40 ft OB boxcars.
On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 11:27 AM A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:
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Re: Southern Single Sheated Boxcars
Allen,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I can’t recall any Southern single sheathed cars. Maybe some were forced on them by USRA or they inherited from an acquisition? I will follow along to see me proved wrong. Dave Bott
On Jun 11, 2021, at 11:23 AM, Allen Cain <allencaintn@...> wrote:
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Southern Single Sheated Boxcars
I apologize for the cross postings. And yes, I did do my own research on this but came up blank so appreciate any help that I can get from anyone so here goes.
Did the Southern own and operate any single sheathed boxcars in the mid-1955? And if so, does anyone have pictures to share? And if so, does any of the new Rapido boxcars match what the Southern had? Here is a link: And finally, if all of the above is yes, who makes the correct decals? Thank you! Allen Cain -- Allen Cain Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale
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Re: Sn3 7-58
C J Wyatt
What I am seeing is Sn 3-58. Looks like a reweigh date. Would Sn be Spencer? Jack Wyatt
On Thursday, June 10, 2021, 10:47:25 PM EDT, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3@...> wrote:
I saw a K4 decal for the twin hoppers. On it is the above lettering. Sn3 and the date. Also that it was built in 1937. I'm assuming that this Sn refers to either a repaint or a later shopping date. But I'm unfamiliar with Sn3? Was this a shop on the old Southern and if so, where was it? My best guess is Spartanburg, South Carolina. I do know back then most hopper work was done at the Costner Shops in Knoxville. Was Spartanburg a repaint shop?
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Sn3 7-58
George Courtney
I saw a K4 decal for the twin hoppers. On it is the above lettering. Sn3 and the date. Also that it was built in 1937. I'm assuming that this Sn refers to either a repaint or a later shopping date. But I'm unfamiliar with Sn3? Was this a shop on the old Southern and if so, where was it? My best guess is Spartanburg, South Carolina. I do know back then most hopper work was done at the Costner Shops in Knoxville. Was Spartanburg a repaint shop?
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Re: Balsam
Michael Young
Stephen, did some googling and was disappointed to find reports on Yelp that the hotel has closed. All interior furnishings were removed/sold in December 2020, and the building is currently for sale. The Grand Old Lady website now links to what is apparently an auto body repair shop. (I got a warning from Chrome security and decided not to continue to the site.) It's sad, I was already planning a trip there in my mind.
Mike Young
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Warner <sgwarner88@...> To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Sent: Wed, Jun 9, 2021 10:46 am Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Balsam Mike, that is the Balsam Inn, built sometime around 1905, if I recall correctly. It was a summer retreat for northern city folk who came down on trains. Their trunks were ferried up the hill to the lodge. The lodge’s hallways even today are wide enough for their steamer trunks to stay outside their door. Until a previous owner refurbished the Inn, it had no heat, as it was a summer lodge. When a local college was upgrading their systems, she bought the old furnace and radiator system and installed it, so it became a year-round Inn. If I recall correctly, the depot was moved across from the Inn a ways away, up on a hill, and was used as a B&B (I stayed there one time). Until COVID, we often stayed at the Balsam Inn (the front 3rd floor corner rooms are best), and from the huge porch watched the NS local top the hill (sometimes not stopping to set retainers) before going to Bryson. You can check on the status today. While it is “rustic/historic”, renovations are eclectic and whimsical, but nice. I personally recommend it, although it is not your Marriott or Four Seasons.
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Re: Balsam
Stephen Warner
Mike, that is the Balsam Inn, built sometime around 1905, if I recall correctly. It was a summer retreat for northern city folk who came down on trains. Their trunks were ferried up the hill to the lodge. The lodge’s hallways even today are wide enough for their steamer trunks to stay outside their door. Until a previous owner refurbished the Inn, it had no heat, as it was a summer lodge. When a local college was upgrading their systems, she bought the old furnace and radiator system and installed it, so it became a year-round Inn. If I recall correctly, the depot was moved across from the Inn a ways away, up on a hill, and was used as a B&B (I stayed there one time). Until COVID, we often stayed at the Balsam Inn (the front 3rd floor corner rooms are best), and from the huge porch watched the NS local top the hill (sometimes not stopping to set retainers) before going to Bryson. You can check on the status today. While it is “rustic/historic”, renovations are eclectic and whimsical, but nice. I personally recommend it, although it is not your Marriott or Four Seasons.
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Balsam
Mike Pierry, Jr.
Returning from a most pleasant photo shoot of GSMR 1702 at Bryson City, NC I turned in to see the "highest track elevation on the Southern" at Balsam. Found where the station once stood and was quite surprised to see the big hotel on a hill above: "The Grand Old Lady". Was this structure built back in the day when folks took the train up into the western Carolina mountains to escape the summer heat? And, was it built by the Southern? Mike Pierry, Jr.
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Re: stock trains on Southern
Charles Powell
When were the last movements of livestock on Southern? We lived by the K&O line in Knoxville from 56-64 and I remember seeing an occasional stock car in a train. We moved to Chattanooga in July of 64. There were covered stock pens by the crest of the hump at the yard. My Dad would pick up his paycheck at work and when the check came on his off days he would go pick it up. I would always go along and after getting the check at the yard office Dad would often drive through the yard or down by the diesel shop for my entertainment. I recall that on one of these trips in probably 64 or 65 as we came out of the yard office we heard the baaa of sheep coming from the stock pens. That had to have been near the end for within a couple of years the Signal Dept. was using the stock pens for material storage.
Charlie
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Re: stock trains on Southern
Matt Bumgarner
At the SE Narrow Gauge Museum this past weekend we were opening and cleaning out our 40ft SR boxcar/shop and one of our volunteers worked at a furniture factory in Lenoir, NC along the Carolina & North-Western. It seems that in the mid to late 70's, he and his co-workers opened a 40-footer and found the floor littered with straw and cow manure... somebody at some point had used this in service boxcar as a cattle car! Interesting anecdote. Matt Bumgarner
On Sun, Jun 6, 2021 at 10:13 AM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
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Re: stock trains on Southern
George Eichelberger
Bob:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Although not many, there are records, photos and drawings of Southern stock pens in the archives, including the Harrisonburg Branch. Ike  
On Jun 6, 2021, at 9:59 AM, Cohen Bob via groups.io <orl96782@...> wrote: Regarding stock trains or stock extras as they were sometimes referred to: I know that SR's Harrisonburg Branch had them and that 27 or so miles away in Potomac Yard there were stock pens at one time, not to mention stock pens at many of the stations along the line. They also had icing platforms for the reefers and I suspect those may have also been used to cool off the subjects of this discussion sometimes in summer. There were certain rules to be followed regarding these special trains, chiefly as I recall that the cars had to halted at least every 24 hours and emptied and the animals given a chance not just to be fed and watered but also cooled for at least 24 hours before proceeding to the next location in their travels. Many of the stations had quite extensive stock pens as the local farmers would drive their herds literally to market or the local pen in this case. Harrisonburg as one place in particular even still has auctions but of course those animals are brought and taken away by truck. By the early 1950's the practice of the stock trains and extras had become far fewer and by the late 1950's I have been told, were the last such trains for whatever the animals were: cattle, hogs, sheep, maybe even horses. If you know where to look along that 111 mile long line even today, you can figure out where some of these once important things were located. Many have long since disappeared. In Mt. Jackson in the 1917 period I seem to recall, health issues started to become a factor as the odor (putting it mildly here) as well as the leftovers from the animals had become a serious problem. Other depots like New Market were several miles out of town and that presented less of a problem. However when the wind blew JUST right ........ oh never mind, you can get the idea. Further south in the area south of Broadway, the Daphna valley region, used to be sheep country and I am told, still is. In Linville, the next depot south from there and the last before Harrisonburg is even today, rendering plant where the station once was. Bob Cohen
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stock trains on Southern
Cohen Bob
Regarding stock trains or stock extras as they were sometimes referred to: I know that SR's Harrisonburg Branch had them and that 27 or so miles away in Potomac Yard there were stock pens at one time, not to mention stock pens at many of the stations along the line. They also had icing platforms for the reefers and I suspect those may have also been used to cool off the subjects of this discussion sometimes in summer. There were certain rules to be followed regarding these special trains, chiefly as I recall that the cars had to halted at least every 24 hours and emptied and the animals given a chance not just to be fed and watered but also cooled for at least 24 hours before proceeding to the next location in their travels. Many of the stations had quite extensive stock pens as the local farmers would drive their herds literally to market or the local pen in this case. Harrisonburg as one place in particular even still has auctions but of course those animals are brought and taken away by truck. By the early 1950's the practice of the stock trains and extras had become far fewer and by the late 1950's I have been told, were the last such trains for whatever the animals were: cattle, hogs, sheep, maybe even horses. If you know where to look along that 111 mile long line even today, you can figure out where some of these once important things were located. Many have long since disappeared. In Mt. Jackson in the 1917 period I seem to recall, health issues started to become a factor as the odor (putting it mildly here) as well as the leftovers from the animals had become a serious problem. Other depots like New Market were several miles out of town and that presented less of a problem. However when the wind blew JUST right ........ oh never mind, you can get the idea. Further south in the area south of Broadway, the Daphna valley region, used to be sheep country and I am told, still is. In Linville, the next depot south from there and the last before Harrisonburg is even today, rendering plant where the station once was. Bob Cohen
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