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locked Budd Letter to Southern Rwy 4-28-47

George Eichelberger
 

The attached letter from Budd to the Southern, 4-28-47 is one of a series of letters in the SRHA archives where Southern asked Budd, ACF and Pullman to change the design of the side sheets on cars on their cars to be delivered as part of the 1947 “Royal Palm” order. The Southern wanted car sides (fluting, skirts, windows, roofs) from the three companies to more or less match.

The response from Budd follows. The entire file is in the SRHA archives.

Ike
locked Re: The end of Southern steam and "Extraordinary Obsolesce"

Ed Mims
 

My observations were that engineering people more often than not found a purpose for track, buildings, etc. that were planned for abandonment. The purpose was usually to park work equipment or to store materials.

Ed Mims
Jacksonville, FL

On Jul 1, 2021, at 11:09 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

From the SRHA Archives:

When the Southern dieselized, many structures, tracks, etc. were rendered obsolete but still on the company’s books as assets. Rather than "write them down” over the usual IRS and AAR schedules, "Extraordinary Obsolesce” inventories were prepared and circulated so accounting paperwork and AFEs (authorizations) for their removal could be prepared.

The SRHA archives largest group of such files appear to be in the late 1940s to early 1950s when the Southern stopped using steam locomotives. I have uploaded one example from the Alabama Great Southern (AGS) on to Google Drive. The summary provides a good list of steam facilities to be retired. Note: the summaries changed quite often in the process. If another use was found for a track that had been used exclusively for steam servicing, for example, local operating or engineering people could ask that it retained.

As the Southern Railway “System” was still very much the corporate and accounting structure in 1950, there are multiple reports for AGS, CNO&TP, Southern, etc. and then for various operating divisions or terminals.

The Google Drive link is:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1LkY6VGITWCjNjQCXTyH8_1764SukG5Ah?usp=sharing

Ike

PS We hope to be able to continue our monthly archives work sessions from now on. The (third weekend) July session is scheduled for the 16th and 17th.
locked The end of Southern steam and "Extraordinary Obsolesce"

George Eichelberger
 

From the SRHA Archives:

When the Southern dieselized, many structures, tracks, etc. were rendered obsolete but still on the company’s books as assets. Rather than "write them down” over the usual IRS and AAR schedules, "Extraordinary Obsolesce” inventories were prepared and circulated so accounting paperwork and AFEs (authorizations) for their removal could be prepared.

The SRHA archives largest group of such files appear to be in the late 1940s to early 1950s when the Southern stopped using steam locomotives. I have uploaded one example from the Alabama Great Southern (AGS) on to Google Drive. The summary provides a good list of steam facilities to be retired. Note: the summaries changed quite often in the process. If another use was found for a track that had been used exclusively for steam servicing, for example, local operating or engineering people could ask that it retained.

As the Southern Railway “System” was still very much the corporate and accounting structure in 1950, there are multiple reports for AGS, CNO&TP, Southern, etc. and then for various operating divisions or terminals.

The Google Drive link is:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1LkY6VGITWCjNjQCXTyH8_1764SukG5Ah?usp=sharing

Ike

PS We hope to be able to continue our monthly archives work sessions from now on. The (third weekend) July session is scheduled for the 16th and 17th.
locked Re: SOU Flatcar Paint Color in 1955

O Fenton Wells
 

In 1955 my memory says black. I’m not sure when the flats, hoppers and racks went to brown but I thought it was 1957. Could be wrong. Maybe some one who definitely knows will chime in. But you could still see the black paint scheme into the early 1960’s
Fenton 


On Jun 28, 2021, at 6:31 PM, Allen Cain <allencaintn@...> wrote:


In 1955 would the Southern 53'6" flatcars in the 51000 series have been painted black or freight car red?

Allen Cain

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale

locked SOU Flatcar Paint Color in 1955

Allen Cain
 

In 1955 would the Southern 53'6" flatcars in the 51000 series have been painted black or freight car red?

Allen Cain

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale
locked Re: Southern Boxcars with opening end doors

O Fenton Wells
 

Here is a quick reply. I hope this helps
The 40 ft DD cars 272000-272999 had 4/5 dreadnought ends.  Note that 272500-272524 had end doors.  The 1938 50 ft DD auto cars had 4/5 dreadnought (sq) ends (40000-40199)  The 1944 50 ft DD auto cars had 5/5 dreadnought (w) ends  (41500-41549 end dr cars) (40200-40249 end dr cars) (42000-42299)
The 1944 50 ft DD auto cars (39000-39973) did not  have end doors.
Fenton


On Sun, Jun 27, 2021 at 3:44 PM George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Can anyone tell me if the 40' and 50' Southern boxcars with opening end doors were 5/4 or 5/3 ends.  I can't find a photo anywhere I looked.  These would be Dreadnought ends.  My era is early 1950's.

Thanks,
George Courtney



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...
locked Re: Trying to get Photos that might fiit the end of a Southern Auto Boxcar

George Courtney
 

Thanks, Gary.  I check his site out.

George Courtney
locked Re: Trying to get Photos that might fiit the end of a Southern Auto Boxcar

Gary Bechdol
 

Chad Boas has the correct end door for the SRR 40' boxcar.

Gary Bechdol 

On Sun, Jun 27, 2021, 4:51 PM George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
George Courtney  Would either of these two ends be good for the opening doors on the ends of a Southern 40' or 50' Automobile Boxcar early 1950's?
This might take  e two messages

locked Trying to get Photos that might fiit the end of a Southern Auto Boxcar

George Courtney
 

George Courtney  Would either of these two ends be good for the opening doors on the ends of a Southern 40' or 50' Automobile Boxcar early 1950's?
This might take  e two messages
locked Southern Boxcars with opening end doors

George Courtney
 

Can anyone tell me if the 40' and 50' Southern boxcars with opening end doors were 5/4 or 5/3 ends.  I can't find a photo anywhere I looked.  These would be Dreadnought ends.  My era is early 1950's.

Thanks,
George Courtney
locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] Station sign standards

George Eichelberger
 

Paul:

From the SRHA archives, here circa 1947, is the drawing for “Southern Railway Post Sign”.

All of the various state RR crossing signs are also in the files, I will see if the VA “slow down” sign is included*.

Ike

* We would like to purchase a “network” set of drives for the archives that will allow us to put selected items on line. If anyone would be interested in helping with the cost, (est. $3.000-$4,000) contact us at archives@....



On Jun 27, 2021, at 11:29 AM, Paul Schmidt <pschmidt3013@...> wrote:

Anyone have a lead on where I might find the standard plan for the Southern's pole-mounted station signs? 

Also, and this casting the net really wide, I'm trying get some idea of the dimensions and especially the font which Virginia used for its signs mounted beneath crossbucks, the signs that declared  "SLOW DOWN TO 5 MILES -- VA. LAW"

Thank you for any assistance.
--
Paul Schmidt

locked Re: Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Michael Young
 

I have a copy, and I too enjoyed it, it contains a lot of good information, and is written in a way that holds a reader's interest.  One thing I will always remember about it, however, is this quote from the chapter, "The Wreck of the Old 97," on page 27:  "The line 'This is not 38, but it's Old 97' refers to the relative speed of 97 over a slower, lower-numbered passenger train, dependable but not glamorous."

Mike Young


-----Original Message-----
From: C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Bob, I enjoyed it too, learning about many obscure wrecks/accidents. I do recommend the book, but just double check anything which seems questionable.

All wrecks are nasty, but New Market ranks right up there.

Jack Wyatt

On Sunday, June 20, 2021, 06:14:44 PM EDT, Robert Hanson via groups.io <rhanson669@...> wrote:


That would be suspicious, Jack.

The book was written by an English professor as a study of ballads and the wrecks that inspired them, it was not written by a railroader or a rail enthusiast.

I agree that it has its shortcomings, but it taught me something.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Thanks Bob,

It's an interesting book, but some pictures in her article on the New Market wreck are questionable (e.g. wrecked freight cars in the wreck of two passenger trains).

Jack Wyatt

On Sunday, June 20, 2021, 04:50:26 PM EDT, Robert Hanson via groups.io <rhanson669@...> wrote:


I accidentally hit "send" before I was finished.  Sorry.

The previously mentioned book is a study of train wrecks and the ballads written about them.

I don't think it is still in print, but one could probably be found at a show, on ebay, or at Amazon.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 3:32 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Initial report from president's files in SRHA archives.

locked Re: Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

C J Wyatt
 

Bob, I enjoyed it too, learning about many obscure wrecks/accidents. I do recommend the book, but just double check anything which seems questionable.

All wrecks are nasty, but New Market ranks right up there.

Jack Wyatt

On Sunday, June 20, 2021, 06:14:44 PM EDT, Robert Hanson via groups.io <rhanson669@...> wrote:


That would be suspicious, Jack.

The book was written by an English professor as a study of ballads and the wrecks that inspired them, it was not written by a railroader or a rail enthusiast.

I agree that it has its shortcomings, but it taught me something.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Thanks Bob,

It's an interesting book, but some pictures in her article on the New Market wreck are questionable (e.g. wrecked freight cars in the wreck of two passenger trains).

Jack Wyatt

On Sunday, June 20, 2021, 04:50:26 PM EDT, Robert Hanson via groups.io <rhanson669@...> wrote:


I accidentally hit "send" before I was finished.  Sorry.

The previously mentioned book is a study of train wrecks and the ballads written about them.

I don't think it is still in print, but one could probably be found at a show, on ebay, or at Amazon.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 3:32 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Initial report from president's files in SRHA archives.

locked Re: Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Robert Hanson
 

That would be suspicious, Jack.

The book was written by an English professor as a study of ballads and the wrecks that inspired them, it was not written by a railroader or a rail enthusiast.

I agree that it has its shortcomings, but it taught me something.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Thanks Bob,

It's an interesting book, but some pictures in her article on the New Market wreck are questionable (e.g. wrecked freight cars in the wreck of two passenger trains).

Jack Wyatt

On Sunday, June 20, 2021, 04:50:26 PM EDT, Robert Hanson via groups.io <rhanson669@...> wrote:


I accidentally hit "send" before I was finished.  Sorry.

The previously mentioned book is a study of train wrecks and the ballads written about them.

I don't think it is still in print, but one could probably be found at a show, on ebay, or at Amazon.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 3:32 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Initial report from president's files in SRHA archives.

locked Re: Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

C J Wyatt
 

Thanks Bob,

It's an interesting book, but some pictures in her article on the New Market wreck are questionable (e.g. wrecked freight cars in the wreck of two passenger trains).

Jack Wyatt

On Sunday, June 20, 2021, 04:50:26 PM EDT, Robert Hanson via groups.io <rhanson669@...> wrote:


I accidentally hit "send" before I was finished.  Sorry.

The previously mentioned book is a study of train wrecks and the ballads written about them.

I don't think it is still in print, but one could probably be found at a show, on ebay, or at Amazon.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 3:32 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Initial report from president's files in SRHA archives.

locked Re: Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Robert Hanson
 

I accidentally hit "send" before I was finished.  Sorry.

The previously mentioned book is a study of train wrecks and the ballads written about them.

I don't think it is still in print, but one could probably be found at a show, on ebay, or at Amazon.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 3:32 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Initial report from president's files in SRHA archives.

locked Re: Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Robert Hanson
 

This wreck received about 10 pages of coverage, including photos, in Katie Letcher Lyle's 1983 book, Scalded to Death by the Steam,


-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Jun 20, 2021 3:32 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Initial report from president's files in SRHA archives.

locked Head On Collision Near New Market, TN, 1904

Carl Ardrey
 

Initial report from president's files in SRHA archives.
locked Re: Southern Single Sheated Boxcars

George Eichelberger
 

I agree with Dave, I am not aware of any Southern single sheathed USRA box cars. Although USRA allocated some number of them to the Southern, that information might be found on a USRA published list but it is incorrect. The Southern did not want/need the cars because it was happy with the many thousands of 36’ box cars it had and it did not want to take on financing for the cars.

I have to go back and look at my own posts as I forgot how they “negotiated” some other cars from USRA in lieu of the SS cars. (Hoppers, gons and drop-bottom gons (“coal cars”) were what the Southern needed in the late teens and early 20s.

Ike

PS There will be a SRHA archives work session next Fri and Sat. I will be there Thursday afternoon if someone wants to come by then....please send an email to archives@... (and have your Covid vaccination) if you plan to be there.



On Jun 11, 2021, at 11:27 AM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

Allen,

I can’t recall any Southern single sheathed cars. Maybe some were forced on them by USRA or they inherited from an acquisition? I will follow along to see me proved wrong.

Dave Bott


On Jun 11, 2021, at 11:23 AM, Allen Cain <allencaintn@...> wrote:


I apologize for the cross postings.  And yes, I did do my own research on this but came up blank so appreciate any help that I can get from anyone so here goes.

Did the Southern own and operate any single sheathed boxcars in the mid-1955?

And if so, does anyone have pictures to share?

And if so, does any of the new Rapido boxcars match what the Southern had?  Here is a link:


And finally, if all of the above is yes, who makes the correct decals?

Thank you!

--
Allen Cain

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale

locked Re: Sn3 7-58

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

According to the list compiled on the Steam Freighcars list, "SR" was Spencer. "SN" doesn't show up at all, though that group does not really consider anything after about 1960, A car reweighed at Spartanburg would probably be "HE" for Hayne Shops.  

Aidrian

On Fri, Jun 11, 2021 at 4:09 AM C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
What I am seeing is Sn 3-58. Looks like a reweigh date. Would Sn be Spencer? 

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, June 10, 2021, 10:47:25 PM EDT, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


I saw a K4 decal for the twin hoppers.  On it is the above lettering.  Sn3 and the date.  Also that it was built in 1937.  I'm assuming that this Sn refers to either a repaint or a later shopping date.  But I'm unfamiliar with Sn3?

Was this a shop on the old Southern and if so, where was it?  My best guess is Spartanburg, South Carolina.  I do know back then most hopper work was done at the Costner Shops in Knoxville.  Was Spartanburg a repaint shop?

Thanks,
George Courtney
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