Date   

locked TIES

Carl Ardrey
 

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA


locked Re: Southern Railway History

Carl Ardrey
 

We do have a few copies left.
CEA

On 08/22/2021 4:38 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
 
 
In 2005, Norfolk Southern donated a number of printed, but unbound, copies of “The Legal History of the Southern Railway”  to SRHA. Written in 1901, by future SR President Fairfax Harrison, with supplements in 1921 and 1958, they represent the most complete and accurate description of the creation and development of the Southern Railway System.
 
They were printed, packaged and kept in the NS Archives until they were donated to SRHA. In 2005, SRHA President Dan Sparks had them trimmed and bound and we sold them through our Company Store, “The Grab". While the bindings were new, the SRHA versions are not reprints. Unfortunately, the limited supply has been sold out for quite some time.
 
For anyone fortunate to have copies of the two Volume set, here is the response sent to almost anyone asking Southern for a copy from 1901 to 2006. From the SRHA - Southern Railway Presidents’ Files collection Box 192A File 21:
 
Ike
 


locked Southern Railway History

George Eichelberger
 

In 2005, Norfolk Southern donated a number of printed, but unbound, copies of “The Legal History of the Southern Railway”  to SRHA. Written in 1901, by future SR President Fairfax Harrison, with supplements in 1921 and 1958, they represent the most complete and accurate description of the creation and development of the Southern Railway System.

They were printed, packaged and kept in the NS Archives until they were donated to SRHA. In 2005, SRHA President Dan Sparks had them trimmed and bound and we sold them through our Company Store, “The Grab". While the bindings were new, the SRHA versions are not reprints. Unfortunately, the limited supply has been sold out for quite some time.

For anyone fortunate to have copies of the two Volume set, here is the response sent to almost anyone asking Southern for a copy from 1901 to 2006. From the SRHA - Southern Railway Presidents’ Files collection Box 192A File 21:

Ike


locked Re: Man o’ War reunited

Kevin Centers
 

Ike,

It should be pointed out that this kind of thing doesn’t happen in a vacuum. Successful rail preservation efforts depend on a lot of groups such as SRHA for support. And I have to say SRHA has always been very helpful in providing information when possible. We may have to do some of the research ourselves, but that’s half the fun. 

Kevin


On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:36 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

 Kevin:

This is great news! SARM is doing superb work preserving Central of Georgia and Southern rolling stock.

Although we have not been very successful getting folks interested in the Central in coming to the SRHA archives to scan, organize and do research, there is a significant amount of CofG material in the collection. It includes many linen originals of CofG freight car drawings that date back to the wooden car era. Passenger car drawings are not well represented but the CofG and Southern Executive Dept. files include information on the last years of CofG passenger services and operations of the through trains operated with the IC, ACL and FEC.

I’ve attached a single example from the file on Trains 9-10, “The Man O’ War”…..

Ike

<1969-7-22 Tr 19-20.jpeg>


On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:12 AM, Kevin Centers <klcenters@...> wrote:

Hi all,

It’s true the Man o’ War wasn’t a Southern train, but I thought you all might find this interesting

Kevin
August 5, 2021

 

From Southern Appalachia Railway Museum, Inc.and East Tennessee Rail Car Services, Inc. in Oak Ridge, TN

 

For Immediate Release

 

Man o’ War Train Together Again

 


Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [geichelberger@...]


locked Re: Man o’ War reunited

George Eichelberger
 

Kevin:

This is great news! SARM is doing superb work preserving Central of Georgia and Southern rolling stock.

Although we have not been very successful getting folks interested in the Central in coming to the SRHA archives to scan, organize and do research, there is a significant amount of CofG material in the collection. It includes many linen originals of CofG freight car drawings that date back to the wooden car era. Passenger car drawings are not well represented but the CofG and Southern Executive Dept. files include information on the last years of CofG passenger services and operations of the through trains operated with the IC, ACL and FEC.

I’ve attached a single example from the file on Trains 9-10, “The Man O’ War”…..

Ike



On Aug 7, 2021, at 11:12 AM, Kevin Centers <klcenters@...> wrote:

Hi all,

It’s true the Man o’ War wasn’t a Southern train, but I thought you all might find this interesting

Kevin
August 5, 2021

 

From Southern Appalachia Railway Museum, Inc.and East Tennessee Rail Car Services, Inc. in Oak Ridge, TN

 

For Immediate Release

 

Man o’ War Train Together Again

 


Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [geichelberger@...]

_._,_._,_


locked Man o’ War reunited

Kevin Centers
 

Hi all,

It’s true the Man o’ War wasn’t a Southern train, but I thought you all might find this interesting

Kevin

August 5, 2021

 

From Southern Appalachia Railway Museum, Inc.and East Tennessee Rail Car Services, Inc. in Oak Ridge, TN

 

For Immediate Release

 

Man o’ War Train Together Again

 

Thoughts of the heyday of rail passenger travel bring to mind some of the famous named passenger trains.  Some that come to mind include the Twentieth Century LimitedThe California ZephyrThe Royal Palm, and The Crescent. After World War 2, these and many other trains were re-equipped with new streamlined lightweight equipment, with railroads investing millions of dollars to purchase complete trainsets from equipment builders that represented the finest in travel anywhere in the world.  But nothing lasts forever, and in the 1960s with the interstate highway system rapidly expanding and air travel becoming more common with better schedules and first-class service, railroads began to discontinue their once great passenger trains. Over the next decade, the great American passenger train would all but disappear with many being completely discontinued and a few being handed over to Amtrak upon its formation in 1971. 

 

As trains were discontinued, their assigned trainsets would be broken up. Most cars would be sold for scrap, leaving only a handful of survivors representing the once great passenger trains that served the small towns and big cities of America.  Some of the remaining equipment would ultimately find its way to railroad preservation groups across the country.  One such group is Southern Appalachia Railway Museum in Oak Ridge, TN. 

 

In 1990, SARM would acquire its first passenger car, the Fort Oglethorpe, from Pandrol Jackson, a railroad engineering and maintenance company. The car was originally built for the Central of Georgia Railway, and later served Southern Railway after those two roads merged.  The Central of Georgia ordered this coach as part of a four-car order from the Budd Company in 1945.All four cars were assigned to the Central’s newest passenger train the, Man o’ War, which was named after the famous racing horse. The Man o’ War was inaugurated in July of 1947, running from Atlanta to Columbus twice daily. The entire train consisted of all streamlined equipment built entirely of stainless steel and named after famous military installations along the Central of Georgia lines.  The consist included combine car Fort Mitchell, coaches Fort McPherson and Fort Oglethorpe, and was crowned with round end tavern/lounge/observation car Fort Benning.  The Man o’ War would provide first class service to the South for 23 years before ridership dwindled, leading to the discontinuance first of the tavern/lounge/observation service in the 1960s, and eventually causing Southern Railway (which merged with the CofG in 1963) to discontinue the train entirely in May of 1970. Since Southern didn’t join Amtrak until 1979, the equipment would continue to see regular service on other Southern Railway trains through the end of the decade.  Eventually the cars were sold off to different owners in different parts of the country and scattered.

 

After SARM acquired the Fort Oglethorpe in 1990 a hunt began, more of a casual curiosity at first, but always there, for the 3 other cars from the Man o’ War. In 1999, SARM would acquire the train’s other coach, the Fort McPherson.  This car had roamed as far as Alaska before being brought back home and the acquisition gave the museum half of the trainset.  Fourteen years later, the next piece came home when East Tennessee Rail Car acquired the train’s observation car in 2013.  ETRC invested its own resources to complete the huge project of moving the Fort Benning from Yakima, WA where the car was found on dead track being used as part of a shopping mall.

 

Now it is with a great deal of happiness that Southern Appalachia Railway Museum and East Tennessee Rail Car Services are able to make the following announcement.  After 31 years of searching for each car, arrangements have been made between the Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad and East Tennessee Rail Car to bring the final car of the original Man o’ War train set together with its stablemates.  Fort Mitchell will join the other cars in Oak Ridge for restoration to original configuration.  Coach Fort Oglethorpe has already been restored to operating condition, Fort McPherson is actively being restored. Once the other cars have been completed, the trainset will be fully assembled for the first time since the mid 1960’s.  SARM believes this is the only non-articulated streamliner to be reunited and restored to its original configuration.  

 

l C"We never thought this project would be feasible. Especially in the early years we'd sit and discuss or daydream about how fun it might be to do it one day, but never once believing it could be pulled off or we could pull it off. Chris Williams, who passed away unexpectedly in 2016, kept us passively focused on the project for years and always pushed the agenda when the opportunity arose. I think he'd be thrilled right now." Charles Poling, SARM Museum Director and President East Tennessee Rail Car Services, Inc. ar Services, Inc.

 

Southern Appalachia Railway Museum is a 501(c)3 corporation founded in 1990 in Tennessee

 

East Tennessee Rail Car Services, Inc. provides rail freight car, passenger car, and locomotive maintenance as well as switching services and equipment leasing.


locked Waffle box reissue

James
 

I have two of those kits in my stash, both in the green Wright Trak boxes.  I might take some pictures for you to look over.
I think I would test the waters much like you did with the 12 post and see what comes about.  I know one of my kits will 
get one of Tony Sissons’s replacement doors.  Which might be an option in updating the kit as well.

This style door:

I can say anything you do in the double door version, I will get two kits.

Don’t forget about the WS RPM:



On Jul 27, 2021, at 18:37, Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote:

A model of the long-awaited 12-post PS 5277 cf boxcar is close at hand.  Pullman-Standard manufactured these exclusively for Southern Railway and the original Norfolk Southern starting in early 1973.  Models have never been offered.  Design is about 80% finished …only a few details, the brake system and final review remain.  Patterns will be printed in-house, thus eliminating quality issues, escalating prices and shipping delays experienced with SLA suppliers.
 
These will be limited run kits and only enough will be produced to fulfill paid-in-full-orders received by 8/31/2021.  To view details about this kit, please visit here:  https://smokymountainmodelworks.com/HO-SOU-NS-5277-box.html
 
Contact me off-list to ask questions, place an order, etc.  Depending on market response to these kits, other cars based on this design will be produced, including the waffle side version in single and double-door styles.
 
Jim King
 

James Wall
Rural Hall, NC




locked Smoky Mountain Model Works announces new HO car kit

Jim King
 

A model of the long-awaited 12-post PS 5277 cf boxcar is close at hand.  Pullman-Standard manufactured these exclusively for Southern Railway and the original Norfolk Southern starting in early 1973.  Models have never been offered.  Design is about 80% finished …only a few details, the brake system and final review remain.  Patterns will be printed in-house, thus eliminating quality issues, escalating prices and shipping delays experienced with SLA suppliers.

 

These will be limited run kits and only enough will be produced to fulfill paid-in-full-orders received by 8/31/2021.  To view details about this kit, please visit here:  https://smokymountainmodelworks.com/HO-SOU-NS-5277-box.html

 

Contact me off-list to ask questions, place an order, etc.  Depending on market response to these kits, other cars based on this design will be produced, including the waffle side version in single and double-door styles.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


locked Re: Stamped car numbers?

Ed Mims
 

Ike, I believe it was fairly common practice among railroads to stamp the owning roads reporting marks (Southern had none) and car number on the center sill. You might find the location on a paint and lettering (stenciling arrangement) drawing from a car builder of even a Southern Rwy drawing. I believe this was a "Recommended Practice" by the AAR. If you have an old copy of the AAR's Manual of Standards and Recommended Practices look in there for the recommended location.

The steel stamped stencils are difficult to find on old cars unless you know where to look.

Ed Mims


locked Re: Stamped car numbers?

Jason Greene
 

I have found many Southern cars stenciled on the frame near the bolster but often this gets very dirty and hard to read. 
Inside the door is often another good place. You may have to remove layers of paint slowly to find clues. 

Jason Greene 

On Jul 12, 2021, at 5:37 PM, Mike <trackside@...> wrote:



I don’t know about the center sill but I do remember seeing the initial & number stamped on the lower  side of the car body around the hand rails. Don’t remember if it was the ‘A’ end or ‘B’ End of the car though.

 

   Mike Seawell

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: George Eichelberger
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 5:22 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io; RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Stamped car numbers?

 

Does anyone know if the Southern used metal dies to stamp a car’s road number on its center sill?

 

The question is to try to determine a car’s original number so it can be painted and numbered correctly.

 

Ike

 

 

 

 


locked Re: Stamped car numbers?

Mike
 

I don’t know about the center sill but I do remember seeing the initial & number stamped on the lower  side of the car body around the hand rails. Don’t remember if it was the ‘A’ end or ‘B’ End of the car though.

 

   Mike Seawell

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: George Eichelberger
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2021 5:22 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io; RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Stamped car numbers?

 

Does anyone know if the Southern used metal dies to stamp a car’s road number on its center sill?

 

The question is to try to determine a car’s original number so it can be painted and numbered correctly.

 

Ike

 

 

 

 


locked Stamped car numbers?

George Eichelberger
 

Does anyone know if the Southern used metal dies to stamp a car’s road number on its center sill?

The question is to try to determine a car’s original number so it can be painted and numbered correctly.

Ike


locked Traffic

southernalco
 

Has NS cut back on their traffic on the old Southern main line from Atlanta to Washington


locked Re: Atlanta Terminal Station - Redrawing Station Plans?

John Stewart
 

Hi Ike and all,

 

I believe my Grandmother!  Happened in Pittsburgh, drawings came from Duquesne Power Co where he was a construction engineer.  But likely started a lot earlier in Indiana where he was a railroad construction engineer.

 

Grin.

 

John Stewart

Birmingham, AL

 


locked Re: Atlanta Terminal Station - Redrawing Station Plans?

George Eichelberger
 

John:

Arrrgh…I have heard that before but was hoping it was a railfan myth.  I heard the Secretaries at the DC headquarters would ask the Engineering people for old drawings they could take and wash the starch out of for handkerchiefs during WWII. The linen was/is very high quality.

Ike

PS The next archives work session is Fri and Sat July 16 and 17. (There are a LOT of Southern and Central of Ga linens in the collection. The CofG drawings are so nicely done, they are really “artwork”.)




On Jul 5, 2021, at 1:51 PM, John Stewart <jstew@...> wrote:

Hi folks
 
Love those old linen drawings.
 
My grandmother used to make all my grandfather’s handkerchief from discarded engineering drawings.
 
John Stewart
Birmingham, AL
 
 


locked Re: Atlanta Terminal Station - Redrawing Station Plans?

John Stewart
 

Hi folks

 

Love those old linen drawings.

 

My grandmother used to make all my grandfather’s handkerchief from discarded engineering drawings.

 

John Stewart

Birmingham, AL

 

 


locked Atlanta Terminal Station - Redrawing Station Plans?

George Eichelberger
 

There are at least 46 partial drawings of the Atlanta Terminal Station building in the SRHA archives. As they were all scanned from old microfilm, none are in perfect condition and there is no guarantee we have every part of the original drawings. The subject certainly warrants an effort to re-draw or reconstruct the drawings.

If anyone is interested in taking on a large project, contact us at archives@....

Here is one example (lower resolution jpeg, the scans are all higher res tiffs.):

Ike


locked Re: Budd Letter to Southern Rwy 4-28-47

George Eichelberger
 

Apparently, the question began from the NYC’s cars in the order. They started the issue of having 3 inch skirts on their lightweight cars. There is an entire sequence of correspondence between the carbuilders, the NYC, L&N, FEC, PRR and Southern about that (everyone agreed to the size) and the conversation changed to roofs, window heights, etc.

In 1947, the railroads may not have appreciated the difference between stainless steel (Budd) and steel/aluminum (Pullman and ACF) passenger cars. The corrugated Budd roof design was proven to be superior but apparently P-S and ACF did not want to deal with it. (i.e. license the “Shotweld” process from Budd.)

Looking at the size of 1940s & 50s passenger car file, what I was not aware of is how much time and effort the Southern spent  planning their lightweight cars or the effort to get the different railroads in car “pool” to agree on details. Like many things in the archives, there are interesting tidbits among all the paper. (Help is needed to get the passenger car drawings and files organized and scanned.)

Ike


On Jul 3, 2021, at 8:17 AM, Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:

I wonder who the guy was that thought they could
call up Ford and ask them to modify their cars to look like Chevy?  My response would have been “If you wanted all your cars to look the same you should have bought from the same manufacturer.”

But I guess it didn’t hurt to ask.


locked Re: Budd Letter to Southern Rwy 4-28-47

Rob Wingo
 

I wonder who the guy was that thought they could
call up Ford and ask them to modify their cars to look like Chevy?  My response would have been “If you wanted all your cars to look the same you should have bought from the same manufacturer.”

But I guess it didn’t hurt to ask.


locked Budd Letter to Southern Rwy 4-28-47

George Eichelberger
 

The attached letter from Budd to the Southern, 4-28-47 is one of a series of letters in the SRHA archives where Southern asked Budd, ACF and Pullman to change the design of the side sheets on cars on their cars to be delivered as part of the 1947 “Royal Palm” order. The Southern wanted car sides (fluting, skirts, windows, roofs) from the three companies to more or less match.

The response from Budd follows. The entire file is in the SRHA archives.

Ike

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