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Southern Vs EMD
George Eichelberger
I have mentioned how the Southern was not averse to letting car and loco builders “have it” when they were unhappy about something. Here is an example from the SRHA archives.
If we can presume (hope) the virus situation will improve in NW GA and TN, it is time to make plans to attend the SRHA archives work session on Oct 15 and 16 (it’s early because Oct 1 is a Friday.) We may extend the session to begin on the 14 or even the 13th as TVRM may be beginning their 60th anniversary that same weekend. In addition to the archives, both TVRM steam locos will be in service (check the TVRM web site), the Baby Trainmaster will be on display and there may be time to check on the progress on Southern office car OC-21 at East Chattanooga. (Anyone thinking about attending needs to send an email to archives@....) Ike  
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Re: Early Diesel switcher assignments
Curt Fortenberry
The part about coupler blocks and mainline use is a very important issue. Locally, we had an MP15 being moved back to the maintenance shop dead in transit, and the local yard forgot to put in the limiting blocks, and during a braking event on a switch, with the extra coupler movement the thing derailed. Curt Fortenberry
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Re: Preserved Southern Switchers?
Matt Bumgarner
Monticello Rwy Museum in Monticello has an NS slug that was made from a Southern RS-3. Matt Bumgarner
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 8:15 PM Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:
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Re: Early Diesel switcher assignments
George Eichelberger
Great stuff, Don….thanks!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
SRHA has most, maybe all (?) of the Specifications for Southern’s diesels. Three, four or five “Specification Supplements” were common as negotiations proceeded with EMD, ALCo or GE. Although they are available for research, not all have been scanned. In addition to the Specs, the internal and external correspondence files provide rationals for some of the features or changes Southern wanted. I’ve exported and attached four pages from the (rough!) draft of the SRHA diesel book. Adobe changed their application and fonts since this version was done and I have not updated it so it looks pretty bad. The text will provide some idea of the level of detail that can be included…although sorting through it to determine what is “worth” having in the book is time consuming. (Research and help with the writing and book production is welcomed.) The format will be a standard hardbound “book” style as large horizontal drawings, like the box car books, is not needed. Ike
On Sep 22, 2021, at 1:48 AM, Don Usak <donusak@ntelos.net> wrote:
My recollections of SW1500s is somewhat different. I recall their speed was restricted in that their ability to make transition was not nearly as advanced as mainline locomotives and speed approaching 40 mph could quickly cook the main generator. My recollection of non-dynamic brake locomotives was when operating on mainline trains, the non-db locomotive would always be put in the lead. This for several reasons, not the least of which was lack of alignment-control draft system on many of these locomotives, including the SW1500s. Locomotives like this had two coupler blocks that could be bolted on each side of the coupler pockets to limit the lateral movement of the coupler shank. Failing to do this, and operating the locomotive behind mainline locomotives with dynamic brake, could cause the non-db locomotive to get buff forced right out of the train during heavy braking. The coupler blocks were left off for normal yard operations. When I went to Spencer in 1975 we had 28 locomotives assigned to the Spencer Shop. All were butt-head switchers with many SW1500s. These locomotives were spread all across many yards on the Eastern Division. They came to Spencer for regular maintenance; and we could change power assemblies and traction motors. The only time they went to Pegram was for wheel true, some kind of heavy repair, or 36-month air change. This could account for lots of sightings of SW1500s on the rear of mainline trains when they were shuttled to and from Spencer for maintenance ---- not being used for mainline power. At Spencer we never ran SW1500s on mainline trains for power. When the yard would get loaded we would run extra trains with whatever mainline power we could scrounge up. We would on occasion run a pair of SW1500s on the Yadkin Local, but never on the Morganton Local. The Albemarle Branch was limited in speed by track so it would not hurt the main generators on the SW1500s. But the Asheville Line was not so limited and the SW1500s never went on the Morganton Local. As far as MU, I recall that main reservoir, actuating, and application & release were fully operational on SW1500s. And they had to be for the brakes to operate properly when trailing. I do not recall if sand was simply a run through pipe. I think we go down the wrong path when we assume that a specification for Flexicoil trucks alone implies that these locomotives were meant to be used in mainline service at mainline track speeds. Many items in the new locomotive specification are never found on the delivered locomotive. The builders would supply a "Response to the Specification". This document would outline those items which the builder could not or would not comply with. GE was very good at providing this detailed document, EMD not so diligent. The SRHA archives may or may not have these builders' response documents. Regards, Don Usak
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Re: Early Diesel switcher assignments
Don Usak
My recollections of SW1500s is somewhat different. I recall their speed was restricted in that their ability to make transition was not nearly as advanced as mainline locomotives and speed approaching 40 mph could quickly cook the main generator.
My recollection of non-dynamic brake locomotives was when operating on mainline trains, the non-db locomotive would always be put in the lead. This for several reasons, not the least of which was lack of alignment-control draft system on many of these locomotives, including the SW1500s. Locomotives like this had two coupler blocks that could be bolted on each side of the coupler pockets to limit the lateral movement of the coupler shank. Failing to do this, and operating the locomotive behind mainline locomotives with dynamic brake, could cause the non-db locomotive to get buff forced right out of the train during heavy braking. The coupler blocks were left off for normal yard operations. When I went to Spencer in 1975 we had 28 locomotives assigned to the Spencer Shop. All were butt-head switchers with many SW1500s. These locomotives were spread all across many yards on the Eastern Division. They came to Spencer for regular maintenance; and we could change power assemblies and traction motors. The only time they went to Pegram was for wheel true, some kind of heavy repair, or 36-month air change. This could account for lots of sightings of SW1500s on the rear of mainline trains when they were shuttled to and from Spencer for maintenance ---- not being used for mainline power. At Spencer we never ran SW1500s on mainline trains for power. When the yard would get loaded we would run extra trains with whatever mainline power we could scrounge up. We would on occasion run a pair of SW1500s on the Yadkin Local, but never on the Morganton Local. The Albemarle Branch was limited in speed by track so it would not hurt the main generators on the SW1500s. But the Asheville Line was not so limited and the SW1500s never went on the Morganton Local. As far as MU, I recall that main reservoir, actuating, and application & release were fully operational on SW1500s. And they had to be for the brakes to operate properly when trailing. I do not recall if sand was simply a run through pipe. I think we go down the wrong path when we assume that a specification for Flexicoil trucks alone implies that these locomotives were meant to be used in mainline service at mainline track speeds. Many items in the new locomotive specification are never found on the delivered locomotive. The builders would supply a "Response to the Specification". This document would outline those items which the builder could not or would not comply with. GE was very good at providing this detailed document, EMD not so diligent. The SRHA archives may or may not have these builders' response documents. Regards, Don Usak
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Re: Preserved Southern Switchers?
Jason Greene
I forgot to add the SW-1 at Wadley in the woods. Privately owned. It is ex-G&F and Southern.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Jason Greene
On Sep 21, 2021, at 6:28 PM, Jason Greene via groups.io <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:
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Re: Locos and Traffic on the Atlanta-Birmingham Line
Preston Clark
I agree, it is a bit confusing for newcomers and the old yahoo links on
http://www.srha.net/public/resources/links.asp need updating as well. If needed, here are links that work for me for anyone out there wanting access the main group page: https://southernrailway.groups.io/g/main
& the subgroup page: https://southernrailway.groups.io/g/ModelingTheSouthern
Preston Clark
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Re: Preserved Southern Switchers?
Jason Greene
8202 at SRM is certainly one.
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Three Rivers Rambler/Clausen have two SW-1s at Knoxville. There is a SW-1 at Oakridge I believe. To my knowledge no ALCO or Baldwins were saved. No SW-1500 have been saved yet, not sure if any could be but some are in second hands. MP-15s are in same boat as the 1500s. Jason Greene
On Sep 21, 2021, at 6:07 PM, Stephen Warner <sgwarner88@...> wrote:
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Re: Locos and Traffic on the Atlanta-Birmingham Line
C J Wyatt
My problem was finding the sub-group. Missing it was my fault. However the SRHA 'links' page needs some cleaning up to get rid of defunct Yahoo groups. Perhaps as that is done, a link to the modeling group could be added to the links, so that someone can find the right group to start with. Also the homepage of the main group says both history and modeling, so at the least something should be added to say that for modeling, go to the sub-group. I am not trying to stir up anything, but just looking to clarify things for a new user. Jack
On Tuesday, September 21, 2021, 05:58:40 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Gentlemen: I don’t think any “clarification” is necessary, just read the home pages of the SouthernRailway.io and ModelingtheSouthern.io home pages. Ike On Sep 21, 2021, at 4:46 PM, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote: James, I looked myself and I think you are correct. Interestingly though, it is not affiliated with SRHA. This site (SRHA's) says it is for history and modeling, so we need some clarification of policy. Jack
On Tuesday, September 21, 2021, 04:38:23 PM EDT, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:
I went on groups.io and found this group listed - it seems this is the group focused on both historical and modelling topics. On Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 16:34 C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
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Re: Preserved Southern Switchers?
Stephen Warner
Bob,
Currently we at SRM are getting close to having 8202 operational again. We had the Traction Motors and wheels overhauled, are restoring the cab, and painting the trucks. Still a ways to go, but looking good. Come by us some day.
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Re: Locos and Traffic on the Atlanta-Birmingham Line
George Eichelberger
Gentlemen:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I don’t think any “clarification” is necessary, just read the home pages of the SouthernRailway.io and ModelingtheSouthern.io home pages. Ike
On Sep 21, 2021, at 4:46 PM, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote: James, I looked myself and I think you are correct. Interestingly though, it is not affiliated with SRHA. This site (SRHA's) says it is for history and modeling, so we need some clarification of policy. Jack
On Tuesday, September 21, 2021, 04:38:23 PM EDT, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:
I went on groups.io and found this group listed - it seems this is the group focused on both historical and modelling topics. On Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 16:34 C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
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Re: Locos and Traffic on the Atlanta-Birmingham Line
C J Wyatt
I see what I missed. On the main group homepage, the menu down the left side has an entry for 'subgroup'. Jack
On Tuesday, September 21, 2021, 05:13:12 PM EDT, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
James, appreciate it. You've got it. I guess I declined to join it when the sub-group talk first came up. Jack
On Tuesday, September 21, 2021, 05:07:35 PM EDT, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:
Found the link: https://southernrailway.groups.io/g/ModelingTheSouthern On Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 17:05 Richard <rmorris52@...> wrote: Simple. Go to your groups on GROUPS.IO, find the SouthernRailway group and the modeling group should show up under it
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Re: Locos and Traffic on the Atlanta-Birmingham Line
C J Wyatt
James, appreciate it. You've got it. I guess I declined to join it when the sub-group talk first came up. Jack
On Tuesday, September 21, 2021, 05:07:35 PM EDT, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:
Found the link: https://southernrailway.groups.io/g/ModelingTheSouthern On Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 17:05 Richard <rmorris52@...> wrote: Simple. Go to your groups on GROUPS.IO, find the SouthernRailway group and the modeling group should show up under it
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Re: Locos and Traffic on the Atlanta-Birmingham Line
James Walton
Found the link: https://southernrailway.groups.io/g/ModelingTheSouthern
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 17:05 Richard <rmorris52@...> wrote: Simple. Go to your groups on GROUPS.IO, find the SouthernRailway group and the modeling group should show up under it
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Re: Locos and Traffic on the Atlanta-Birmingham Line
Richard
Simple. Go to your groups on GROUPS.IO, find the SouthernRailway group and the modeling group should show up under it
Richard Morris
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Re: Locos and Traffic on the Atlanta-Birmingham Line
C J Wyatt
James, I looked myself and I think you are correct. Interestingly though, it is not affiliated with SRHA. This site (SRHA's) says it is for history and modeling, so we need some clarification of policy. Jack
On Tuesday, September 21, 2021, 04:38:23 PM EDT, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:
I went on groups.io and found this group listed - it seems this is the group focused on both historical and modelling topics. On Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 16:34 C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
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Re: Locos and Traffic on the Atlanta-Birmingham Line
James Walton
I went on groups.io and found this group listed - it seems this is the group focused on both historical and modelling topics.
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 16:34 C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
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Re: Locos and Traffic on the Atlanta-Birmingham Line
C J Wyatt
No need for apologies. There is another Southern Railway group not affiliated with SRHA which discusses both history and modeling. It seems like the home page of this group should have a link to the subgroup (maybe it does and I have not noticed it). Jack
On Tuesday, September 21, 2021, 04:29:35 PM EDT, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:
My apologies, I misread your post, thinking you were asking how we found this group. I might recommend going on the groups.io website and searching for a group there. On Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 16:27 C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
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Re: Locos and Traffic on the Atlanta-Birmingham Line
James Walton
My apologies, I misread your post, thinking you were asking how we found this group. I might recommend going on the groups.io website and searching for a group there.
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 16:27 C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
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Re: Locos and Traffic on the Atlanta-Birmingham Line
C J Wyatt
James, I am glad that you gave it a try. However, this is the main group which is supposedly reserved for history with modeling going on a subgroup, but how do you access the subgroup? Jack
On Tuesday, September 21, 2021, 04:20:42 PM EDT, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:
I found the link to this group on the SRHA website, and decided to give it a try. I'm interested in several railroads, mostly in the South, like the Seaboard, L&N, and ACL, though I do have a soft spot for the Frisco and Nickel Plate Road. On Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 16:17 C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
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