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locked Re: Gift and Challenge

Dave Queener
 

Hi Ike,

SF-1013 is the Haskell & Barker built version of the 30 Ton Standard Boxcar shown on SF-1002. SF-1013 is referenced on F Card F-13, Column A, as the general arrangement drawing for SR box cars numbered 13100 to 14099. From my research among the aperture cards, the SRHA has almost every part drawing for one of these cars. These have already been scanned, and should be on the hard drive of the main archives computer.

I used general arrangement SF-1002, which you very kindly gave me access to several years ago, along with Card F-15, column A, to create my AutoCAD drawings of one of these cars, namely AC&F built car #15873, from which I based by F scale kit. I am now working up a SolidWorks version of the same for a much improved, and more detailed, 1/20th scale kit.

I should add that the main differences between the Haskell & Barker car and the AC&F version are the cast steel body bolster and draft rigging that H&B used, necessitating different spacing of the intermediate sills. H&B also omitted the Jones door hardware and most likely the sheet metal hood covering the door track in favor of their own hardware, for which the SRHA has a part drawing.

Here are pics of two of these cars:

Cheers,

Dave Queener

(865) 209-5654 (c)


On 9/30/2021 10:23 AM, George Eichelberger wrote:
Eric:

I don’t know what the effect of the smaller PDF file will be on the resolution of the drawing but here is another Google Drive link. Let us know how the conversion to AutoCad goes. 


(I realize that 177MB .tiff files are not the easiest to work with but fullsize 200 or 300 dpi scans give us “archival” quality images to work with. While scanning technology will improve, we have these to work with and the original drawings can sit in their files until we need to scan them again. PS: I scanned some of the drawings at 8 bit color, not greyscale. Although the drawings are not color, it does appear to be easier to adjust the scan contrast and color levels starting from 8-bit color image although keeping everything in that format would require huge amount of storage for an archives the size of SRHA’s.) 

I also realize most modelers, Southern and otherwise, focus on “transition era” or later prototypes but amazing work can be done with early “steam era” rolling stock as well. There are only a few companies doing kits from casting but good quality drawings could “bend the curve” backwards in time for what (Southern and Central of Georgia) prototypes are available. (The CG linens are in the SRHA archives.)

Ike

PS If anyone takes the scan to have a full size drawing made, give the group an idea what it cost. (I have found that most D size drawings can be reduced to 11”x17” @ 300 dpi that can be produced on standard ink-jet printers. That size is still very readable and much more convenient on the work bench.)


On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:53 AM, Eric Schrowang <eschrowang@...> wrote:

George,
Is there any way to see these as a PDF? I would love to move these to AutoCad and plot them to scale.

Eric

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 7:22 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
The new SRHA scanner is in service at the archives. As expected, it does a superb job on our large drawings (linens and blueprints).

I’ve uploaded the full size, full resolution scan for drawing SF-1013, a “Plain Box Car” drawn July 5, 1905. The drawing does not include what car series the drawing is for but the index of SR drawings shown on the print strongly suggest this is not a car proposed by one of the car builders. (As cars got more complex, the index was left off most drawings after about 1906-7.) That’s the “gift”…

The “challenge” includes several opportunities to display models built from the drawing:
Next year’s SRHA (twice postponed) convention in Richmond, VA, next year’s joint meeting with the L&NHS at their annual convention at TVRM, AND to be on display in the future TVRM museum building across the (Turntable Road) street from the archives. Models can be of any scale, including 12”:1’. (A partial cut away model of a “WUF” would be interesting.) I expect the various drawings, plus trucks, are in the archives but we will ask for a donation if anyone wants them all. The Google Drive link to the (177 MB) drawing is:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oGLl1PKvtG_ZviFJRLcz56RR71ZcodJg/view?usp=sharing

Ike

PS Donations for things like $7,000+ scanners are always welcome, and needed.



-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com  (865) 333-5712

Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
www.StPaulPres.com  (865) 209-5654

Virus-free. www.avg.com

locked Re: Gift and Challenge

George Eichelberger
 

Eric:

I don’t know what the effect of the smaller PDF file will be on the resolution of the drawing but here is another Google Drive link. Let us know how the conversion to AutoCad goes. 


(I realize that 177MB .tiff files are not the easiest to work with but fullsize 200 or 300 dpi scans give us “archival” quality images to work with. While scanning technology will improve, we have these to work with and the original drawings can sit in their files until we need to scan them again. PS: I scanned some of the drawings at 8 bit color, not greyscale. Although the drawings are not color, it does appear to be easier to adjust the scan contrast and color levels starting from 8-bit color image although keeping everything in that format would require huge amount of storage for an archives the size of SRHA’s.) 

I also realize most modelers, Southern and otherwise, focus on “transition era” or later prototypes but amazing work can be done with early “steam era” rolling stock as well. There are only a few companies doing kits from casting but good quality drawings could “bend the curve” backwards in time for what (Southern and Central of Georgia) prototypes are available. (The CG linens are in the SRHA archives.)

Ike

PS If anyone takes the scan to have a full size drawing made, give the group an idea what it cost. (I have found that most D size drawings can be reduced to 11”x17” @ 300 dpi that can be produced on standard ink-jet printers. That size is still very readable and much more convenient on the work bench.)


On Sep 30, 2021, at 7:53 AM, Eric Schrowang <eschrowang@...> wrote:

George,
Is there any way to see these as a PDF? I would love to move these to AutoCad and plot them to scale.

Eric

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 7:22 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
The new SRHA scanner is in service at the archives. As expected, it does a superb job on our large drawings (linens and blueprints).

I’ve uploaded the full size, full resolution scan for drawing SF-1013, a “Plain Box Car” drawn July 5, 1905. The drawing does not include what car series the drawing is for but the index of SR drawings shown on the print strongly suggest this is not a car proposed by one of the car builders. (As cars got more complex, the index was left off most drawings after about 1906-7.) That’s the “gift”…

The “challenge” includes several opportunities to display models built from the drawing:
Next year’s SRHA (twice postponed) convention in Richmond, VA, next year’s joint meeting with the L&NHS at their annual convention at TVRM, AND to be on display in the future TVRM museum building across the (Turntable Road) street from the archives. Models can be of any scale, including 12”:1’. (A partial cut away model of a “WUF” would be interesting.) I expect the various drawings, plus trucks, are in the archives but we will ask for a donation if anyone wants them all. The Google Drive link to the (177 MB) drawing is:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oGLl1PKvtG_ZviFJRLcz56RR71ZcodJg/view?usp=sharing

Ike

PS Donations for things like $7,000+ scanners are always welcome, and needed.
locked Re: Gift and Challenge

Eric Schrowang
 

George,
Is there any way to see these as a PDF? I would love to move these to AutoCad and plot them to scale.

Eric

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 7:22 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
The new SRHA scanner is in service at the archives. As expected, it does a superb job on our large drawings (linens and blueprints).

I’ve uploaded the full size, full resolution scan for drawing SF-1013, a “Plain Box Car” drawn July 5, 1905. The drawing does not include what car series the drawing is for but the index of SR drawings shown on the print strongly suggest this is not a car proposed by one of the car builders. (As cars got more complex, the index was left off most drawings after about 1906-7.) That’s the “gift”…

The “challenge” includes several opportunities to display models built from the drawing:
Next year’s SRHA (twice postponed) convention in Richmond, VA, next year’s joint meeting with the L&NHS at their annual convention at TVRM, AND to be on display in the future TVRM museum building across the (Turntable Road) street from the archives. Models can be of any scale, including 12”:1’. (A partial cut away model of a “WUF” would be interesting.) I expect the various drawings, plus trucks, are in the archives but we will ask for a donation if anyone wants them all. The Google Drive link to the (177 MB) drawing is:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oGLl1PKvtG_ZviFJRLcz56RR71ZcodJg/view?usp=sharing

Ike

PS Donations for things like $7,000+ scanners are always welcome, and needed.
locked Re: Gift and Challenge

aramsay18
 

Thanks for sending the link.

No trouble downloading or viewing it.

It is an absolutely beautiful old-style engineering drawing.  Many. many hours of mechanical engineering design time went into producing it.

Regards from Berryville VA
Andy Ramsay


On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 7:22 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
The new SRHA scanner is in service at the archives. As expected, it does a superb job on our large drawings (linens and blueprints).

I’ve uploaded the full size, full resolution scan for drawing SF-1013, a “Plain Box Car” drawn July 5, 1905. The drawing does not include what car series the drawing is for but the index of SR drawings shown on the print strongly suggest this is not a car proposed by one of the car builders. (As cars got more complex, the index was left off most drawings after about 1906-7.) That’s the “gift”…

The “challenge” includes several opportunities to display models built from the drawing:
Next year’s SRHA (twice postponed) convention in Richmond, VA, next year’s joint meeting with the L&NHS at their annual convention at TVRM, AND to be on display in the future TVRM museum building across the (Turntable Road) street from the archives. Models can be of any scale, including 12”:1’. (A partial cut away model of a “WUF” would be interesting.) I expect the various drawings, plus trucks, are in the archives but we will ask for a donation if anyone wants them all. The Google Drive link to the (177 MB) drawing is:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oGLl1PKvtG_ZviFJRLcz56RR71ZcodJg/view?usp=sharing

Ike

PS Donations for things like $7,000+ scanners are always welcome, and needed.
locked Re: SR Drawing trivia

Kyle Shannon
 

Nice seeing the miles going up on the new scanner. That thing is a Cadillac.




On Wednesday, September 29, 2021, 9:15 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Dave:

Starting from SF-1000, the beginning of the D size drawings, I only got to SF-1084 (drawn 8-27-1916) scanned this week. (Two screen shots are attached.) (Scanning 100 year old linens has to be done carefully.) While we have the scans made from microfilm, I’ll wait until the Oct work session to go high/later in the drawings with the new scanner. I expect most of the detail drawings, for any car, will be A, B or C size drawings. Those are in separate number series (the drawing number is based on its size) but we either have them scanned or, being smaller drawings, they are easier to scan.

Ike

PS To everyone. To limit storage space on the .io server, I will be deleting most attachments and older posts in the next week or so.




On Sep 29, 2021, at 8:28 PM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

agree.  ‘22-28 SU boxcar drawings and I’ll up the ante. 😼

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Sep 29, 2021, at 8:07 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Not really a “trivial” thing….

If you have downloaded the Southern wood under frame box car drawing, notice the ends of the wood pieces. The wood grains drawn are not random, they are different for every type of wood and the drawing standard for each was followed. Shop people knew the wood by the way the grain was drawn without other references.

There is a “key sheet” drawing in the collection…someplace.

Ike
locked Re: SR Drawing trivia

George Eichelberger
 

Just put that link in the address bar of any Internet browser, and It’ll download and show it to you.

Ike

On Sep 29, 2021, at 9:08 PM, michael DUNNINGTON <cvlwrnut@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

How can we non-techies access the drawing?
Michael Dunnington
On Sep 29, 2021, at 7:28 PM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@vt.edu> wrote:

agree. ‘22-28 SU boxcar drawings and I’ll up the ante. 😼

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Sep 29, 2021, at 8:07 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Not really a “trivial” thing….

If you have downloaded the Southern wood under frame box car drawing, notice the ends of the wood pieces. The wood grains drawn are not random, they are different for every type of wood and the drawing standard for each was followed. Shop people knew the wood by the way the grain was drawn without other references.

There is a “key sheet” drawing in the collection…someplace.

Ike
locked Re: SR Drawing trivia

George Eichelberger
 

Dave:

Starting from SF-1000, the beginning of the D size drawings, I only got to SF-1084 (drawn 8-27-1916) scanned this week. (Two screen shots are attached.) (Scanning 100 year old linens has to be done carefully.) While we have the scans made from microfilm, I’ll wait until the Oct work session to go high/later in the drawings with the new scanner. I expect most of the detail drawings, for any car, will be A, B or C size drawings. Those are in separate number series (the drawing number is based on its size) but we either have them scanned or, being smaller drawings, they are easier to scan.

Ike

PS To everyone. To limit storage space on the .io server, I will be deleting most attachments and older posts in the next week or so.




On Sep 29, 2021, at 8:28 PM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

agree.  ‘22-28 SU boxcar drawings and I’ll up the ante. 😼

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Sep 29, 2021, at 8:07 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Not really a “trivial” thing….

If you have downloaded the Southern wood under frame box car drawing, notice the ends of the wood pieces. The wood grains drawn are not random, they are different for every type of wood and the drawing standard for each was followed. Shop people knew the wood by the way the grain was drawn without other references.

There is a “key sheet” drawing in the collection…someplace.

Ike
locked Re: SR Drawing trivia

michael DUNNINGTON
 

How can we non-techies access the drawing?
Michael Dunnington

On Sep 29, 2021, at 7:28 PM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@vt.edu> wrote:

agree. ‘22-28 SU boxcar drawings and I’ll up the ante. 😼

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Sep 29, 2021, at 8:07 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Not really a “trivial” thing….

If you have downloaded the Southern wood under frame box car drawing, notice the ends of the wood pieces. The wood grains drawn are not random, they are different for every type of wood and the drawing standard for each was followed. Shop people knew the wood by the way the grain was drawn without other references.

There is a “key sheet” drawing in the collection…someplace.

Ike
locked Re: SR Drawing trivia

A&Y Dave in MD
 

agree. ‘22-28 SU boxcar drawings and I’ll up the ante. 😼

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Sep 29, 2021, at 8:07 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Not really a “trivial” thing….

If you have downloaded the Southern wood under frame box car drawing, notice the ends of the wood pieces. The wood grains drawn are not random, they are different for every type of wood and the drawing standard for each was followed. Shop people knew the wood by the way the grain was drawn without other references.

There is a “key sheet” drawing in the collection…someplace.

Ike
locked SR Drawing trivia

George Eichelberger
 

Not really a “trivial” thing….

If you have downloaded the Southern wood under frame box car drawing, notice the ends of the wood pieces. The wood grains drawn are not random, they are different for every type of wood and the drawing standard for each was followed. Shop people knew the wood by the way the grain was drawn without other references.

There is a “key sheet” drawing in the collection…someplace.

Ike
locked Re: Gift and Challenge

George Eichelberger
 

John:

Ignore the first two messages you get and it will simply let you download the file when you check that. It’s “real” and there are no “bugs” in it.

Ike

On Sep 29, 2021, at 7:42 PM, John Willis <willisjc@zebra.net> wrote:

George,

The file is too large to download. It also has returned this message: the authenticity of the received data could not be verified. Resize the image to something smaller than 156 MB.

John


John C. Willis

Mobile, Al
locked Re: Gift and Challenge

A&Y Dave in MD
 

i was able to view it.

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Sep 29, 2021, at 7:42 PM, John Willis <willisjc@zebra.net> wrote:

George,

The file is too large to download. It also has returned this message: the authenticity of the received data could not be verified. Resize the image to something smaller than 156 MB.

John


John C. Willis

Mobile, Al
locked Gift and Challenge

John Willis
 

George,

The file is too large to download. It also has returned this message: the authenticity of the received data could not be verified. Resize the image to something smaller than 156 MB.

John


John C. Willis

Mobile, Al
locked Re: Gift and Challenge

A&Y Dave in MD
 

challenge accepted. My gift is on the way.

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Sep 29, 2021, at 7:22 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The new SRHA scanner is in service at the archives. As expected, it does a superb job on our large drawings (linens and blueprints).

I’ve uploaded the full size, full resolution scan for drawing SF-1013, a “Plain Box Car” drawn July 5, 1905. The drawing does not include what car series the drawing is for but the index of SR drawings shown on the print strongly suggest this is not a car proposed by one of the car builders. (As cars got more complex, the index was left off most drawings after about 1906-7.) That’s the “gift”…

The “challenge” includes several opportunities to display models built from the drawing:
Next year’s SRHA (twice postponed) convention in Richmond, VA, next year’s joint meeting with the L&NHS at their annual convention at TVRM, AND to be on display in the future TVRM museum building across the (Turntable Road) street from the archives. Models can be of any scale, including 12”:1’. (A partial cut away model of a “WUF” would be interesting.) I expect the various drawings, plus trucks, are in the archives but we will ask for a donation if anyone wants them all. The Google Drive link to the (177 MB) drawing is:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oGLl1PKvtG_ZviFJRLcz56RR71ZcodJg/view?usp=sharing

Ike

PS Donations for things like $7,000+ scanners are always welcome, and needed.

locked Gift and Challenge

George Eichelberger
 

The new SRHA scanner is in service at the archives. As expected, it does a superb job on our large drawings (linens and blueprints).

I’ve uploaded the full size, full resolution scan for drawing SF-1013, a “Plain Box Car” drawn July 5, 1905. The drawing does not include what car series the drawing is for but the index of SR drawings shown on the print strongly suggest this is not a car proposed by one of the car builders. (As cars got more complex, the index was left off most drawings after about 1906-7.) That’s the “gift”…

The “challenge” includes several opportunities to display models built from the drawing:
Next year’s SRHA (twice postponed) convention in Richmond, VA, next year’s joint meeting with the L&NHS at their annual convention at TVRM, AND to be on display in the future TVRM museum building across the (Turntable Road) street from the archives. Models can be of any scale, including 12”:1’. (A partial cut away model of a “WUF” would be interesting.) I expect the various drawings, plus trucks, are in the archives but we will ask for a donation if anyone wants them all. The Google Drive link to the (177 MB) drawing is:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oGLl1PKvtG_ZviFJRLcz56RR71ZcodJg/view?usp=sharing

Ike

PS Donations for things like $7,000+ scanners are always welcome, and needed.
locked Re: Locos and Traffic on the Atlanta-Birmingham Line

C J Wyatt
 

Generally, Southern Railway did not use sub-division or district names. In the employee timetable for the Birmingham Division, it is simply 'Between Austell and Birmingham - Westbound' or 'Between Birmingham and Austell - Eastbound'.

Jack

On Thursday, September 23, 2021, 09:56:39 PM EDT, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:


By the way, does anyone know what the subdivisions were for the Atlanta-Birmingham line?

On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 11:59 PM James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:
I've been trying to figure out locomotive classes and traffic were common on the Southern's Atlanta-Birmingham line in the late 40s and 50s. I don't have a copy of Richard Prince's book, so I'm having to make do with sources like steamlocomotive.com - not exactly ideal. 

I know only that the Southerner and the Kansas City-Florida Special used the line, but not much more.
locked Re: Locos and Traffic on the Atlanta-Birmingham Line

James Walton
 

By the way, does anyone know what the subdivisions were for the Atlanta-Birmingham line?


On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 11:59 PM James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:
I've been trying to figure out locomotive classes and traffic were common on the Southern's Atlanta-Birmingham line in the late 40s and 50s. I don't have a copy of Richard Prince's book, so I'm having to make do with sources like steamlocomotive.com - not exactly ideal. 

I know only that the Southerner and the Kansas City-Florida Special used the line, but not much more.
locked Re: Southern Vs EMD

Paul Schmidt
 

Curiously, this letter echoes thoughts that I have passed on to vendors such as Progress Rail, US&S and Alstom over the past several years about signal equipment. The more things change. ...
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA
locked Re: Early Diesel switcher assignments

mike turner
 

Me, too. :)

On 9/22/2021 2:18 PM, rwbrv4 via groups.io wrote:
Can't wait to see the book.
Rick Bell

-- 
Mike Turner
MP-Z35
locked Re: Early Diesel switcher assignments

rwbrv4
 

Can't wait to see the book.
Rick Bell


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Sep 22, 2021 9:10 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Early Diesel switcher assignments

Great stuff, Don….thanks!

SRHA has most, maybe all (?) of the Specifications for Southern’s diesels. Three, four or five “Specification Supplements” were common as negotiations proceeded with EMD, ALCo or GE. Although they are available for research, not all have been scanned. In addition to the Specs, the internal and external correspondence files provide rationals for some of the features or changes Southern wanted.

I’ve exported and attached four pages from the (rough!) draft of the SRHA diesel book. Adobe changed their application and fonts since this version was done and I have not updated it so it looks pretty bad. The text will provide some idea of the level of detail that can be included…although sorting through it to determine what is “worth” having in the book is time consuming. (Research and help with the writing and book production is welcomed.) The format will be a standard hardbound “book” style as large horizontal drawings, like the box car books, is not needed.

Ike





On Sep 22, 2021, at 1:48 AM, Don Usak <donusak@...> wrote:

My recollections of SW1500s is somewhat different.  I recall their speed was restricted in that their ability to make transition was not nearly as advanced as mainline locomotives and speed approaching 40 mph could quickly cook the main generator.

My recollection of non-dynamic brake locomotives was when operating on mainline trains, the non-db locomotive would always be put in the lead.  This for several reasons, not the least of which was lack of alignment-control draft system on many of these locomotives, including the SW1500s.  Locomotives like this had two coupler blocks that could be bolted on each side of the coupler pockets to limit the lateral movement of the coupler shank.  Failing to do this, and operating the locomotive behind mainline locomotives with dynamic brake, could cause the non-db locomotive to get buff forced right out of the train during heavy braking. The coupler blocks were left off for normal yard operations.

When I went to Spencer in 1975 we had 28 locomotives assigned to the Spencer Shop.  All were butt-head switchers with many SW1500s.  These locomotives were spread all across many yards on the Eastern Division.  They came to Spencer for regular maintenance; and we could change power assemblies and traction motors.  The only time they went to Pegram was for wheel true, some kind of heavy repair, or 36-month air change.  This could account for lots of sightings of SW1500s on the rear of mainline trains when they were shuttled to and from Spencer for maintenance ---- not being used for mainline power.

At Spencer we never ran SW1500s on mainline trains for power.  When the yard would get loaded we would run extra trains with whatever mainline power we could scrounge up.  We would on occasion run a pair of SW1500s on the Yadkin Local, but never on the Morganton Local. The Albemarle Branch was limited in speed by track so it would not hurt the main generators on the SW1500s.  But the Asheville Line was not so limited and the SW1500s never went on the Morganton Local.

As far as MU, I recall that main reservoir, actuating, and application & release were fully operational on SW1500s.  And they had to be for the brakes to operate properly when trailing.  I do not recall if sand was simply a run through pipe.

I think we go down the wrong path when we assume that a specification for Flexicoil trucks alone implies that these locomotives were meant to be used in mainline service at mainline track speeds.  Many items in the new locomotive specification are never found on the delivered locomotive.  The builders would supply a "Response to the Specification".  This document would outline those items which the builder could not or would not comply with.  GE was very good at providing this detailed document, EMD not so diligent.  The SRHA archives may or may not have these builders' response documents.

Regards,
Don Usak
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