Date   

locked Re: Today's Question

Bill Schafer
 

Livestock deaths in transit were not unusual, especially before federal regulations specifying that livestock be rested and watered every 28 hours. At major yards my guess is that it would have been the practice to cull dead animals from the stock cars en route. Livestock movements were frequently (usually? always?) accompanied by drovers, whose job was to make sure the animals were cared for and if they weren’t, to be able to tell the owners how and why any of the stock perished so claims could be lodged against the carriers. Much of this information comes from an excellent exhibit on livestock transportation at the Illinois Railway Museum in Union, Ill. The exhibit is in an ATSF stock car. 

Disposing of the manure that would have accumulated may have been the job of the drovers; if there was enough bedding in the cars, maybe it wasn’t cleaned out at all. Regardless, I doubt if the railroad would have gone to the expense of incinerating it. Back at the turn of the 19th-20th century, most Americans lived in the country or small towns, so piles of manure here and there would have been no big deal. In my time, I’m remembering how the railroad used to dispose of the residue from cleaned out boxcars - before the days of eco-sensitivity, it was just amassed in a big pile somewhere. 

Dead animals are different, though. They attract scavengers, pests and disease, and even 120 years ago, dead animals were moved from where people lived and worked. The most efficient method of disposal would be cremation, I would think, if a rendering company was not nearby. Death could have been caused by trampling, train handling, disease, accidents, starvation/thirst, . . . any number of reasons. Hence, the crematorium. 

Much of the above is a hunch - I grew up on a farm around large animals that once in a while died. If that happened, we called a knacker who worked for the Leidy chemical company, who would winch the carcass onto a flatbed truck and haul it off to the rendering plant. There, the body would be “rendered” and many parts of the animal salvaged. Southern may have cremated the animals because no rendering plants were in the vicinity. It would be interesting to find a reference that lists where the crematoriums were on the Southern. Would Spencer be the only location, systemwide? 

—Bill







On Oct 29, 2021, at 17:09, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:

Looks like the drawing dates to the 1890s. Railroads hauled a lot of livestock in those days and eventually those stock cars would end up with a lot of you know what on the floors. Maybe this was where the livestock waste was disposed? Just guessing. I looked in online dictionaries to see if crematory or cremation had earlier uses and most places defined them connected with disposal of bodies. One of the sites did show cremate as a synonym for incineration in general. 

Charlie Powell


locked Re: Today's Question

Charles Powell
 

Looks like the drawing dates to the 1890s. Railroads hauled a lot of livestock in those days and eventually those stock cars would end up with a lot of you know what on the floors. Maybe this was where the livestock waste was disposed? Just guessing. I looked in online dictionaries to see if crematory or cremation had earlier uses and most places defined them connected with disposal of bodies. One of the sites did show cremate as a synonym for incineration in general. 

Charlie Powell


locked Re: Today's Question

Robert Hanson
 

Southern Railway - Service You Can't Refuse


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Oct 29, 2021 3:15 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Today's Question

Two questions for the attached drawing…

A.) why would the Southern have such a facility?

B.) how many were there and where were they?

Ike


locked Re: Today's Question

C J Wyatt
 

Perhaps for animals killed by its trains.

Jack Wyatt

On Friday, October 29, 2021, 03:15:53 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Two questions for the attached drawing…

A.) why would the Southern have such a facility?

B.) how many were there and where were they?

Ike


locked Re: Today's Question

Kevin Centers
 

Southern Railway-we’ll be the last friends to let you down?

On Oct 29, 2021, at 3:15 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

 Two questions for the attached drawing…

A.) why would the Southern have such a facility?

B.) how many were there and where were they?

Ike


locked Re: Today's Question

Dave Queener
 

Diversification into the funeral industry?

DQ

On 10/29/2021 3:15 PM, George Eichelberger wrote:
Two questions for the attached drawing…

A.) why would the Southern have such a facility?

B.) how many were there and where were they?

Ike

-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com  (865) 333-5712

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www.StPaulPres.com  (865) 209-5654

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locked Re: Today's Question

Kevin Centers
 

Livestock deaths?

On Oct 29, 2021, at 3:15 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

 Two questions for the attached drawing…

A.) why would the Southern have such a facility?

B.) how many were there and where were they?

Ike


locked Today's Question

George Eichelberger
 

Two questions for the attached drawing…

A.) why would the Southern have such a facility?

B.) how many were there and where were they?

Ike


locked Re: ACL O 15 photos

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Paul


On Sat, Oct 23, 2021 at 2:57 PM Paul Schmidt <pschmidt3013@...> wrote:
Well done, Fenton!
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


locked Re: ACL O 15 photos

Paul Schmidt
 

Well done, Fenton!
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA


locked Re: ACL O 15 photos

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Donnie


On Thu, Oct 21, 2021 at 10:20 PM Donnie Dixon <rf4cnam@...> wrote:

Beautiful work Fenton. Absolutely gorgeous

Donnie

 



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


locked Re: ACL O 15 photos

George Eichelberger
 

Shouldn't this topic be on "ModelingTheSouthern.io"?

Ike


locked Re: ACL O 15 photos

Donnie Dixon
 

Beautiful work Fenton. Absolutely gorgeous

Donnie

 


locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] Budd LtWt Pass Car Stencil Drawing - 1948

Curtis Brookshire
 

re, the lettering difference: The 1941 Tennessean and Southerner equipment came from Pullman. Maybe Budd submitted a different font due to competition with Pullman? I've read somewhere that there was some bad blood between the manufacturers that came from Pullman shutting Budd out of building streamlined sleepers when the ATSF ordered cars for the Super Chief in the 1930s.

Curtis Brookshire
Pine Level NC


locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] Budd LtWt Pass Car Stencil Drawing - 1948

George Eichelberger
 

Gino:

Thanks for the info!

As a dedicated “Mac” user, I typically am not aware of issues like this…the Mac simply “handles” this stuff.

Ike

On Oct 20, 2021, at 9:24 AM, Gino Damen <g.damen@quarter105.nl> wrote:

Hi,

It is the type of attachment who is the problem. On the average PC TIFF images can be viewed. On a lot of mobile device the included imageviewer can not parse TIFF files.

Even the fact that you currently attached a file with the extension .JPEG can cause problems because the extension .JPEG isn't always registered correctly.

The safest option is always post images saved in JPEG-format and with the extension JPG (not JPEG although the file self is exactly the same).

Greetings,

Gino Damen


locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] Budd LtWt Pass Car Stencil Drawing - 1948

Gino Damen
 

Hi,

It is the type of attachment who is the problem. On the average PC TIFF images can be viewed. On a lot of mobile device the included imageviewer can not parse TIFF files.

Even the fact that you currently attached a file with the extension .JPEG can cause problems because the extension .JPEG isn't always registered correctly.

The safest option is always post images saved in JPEG-format and with the extension JPG (not JPEG although the file self is exactly the same).

Greetings,

Gino Damen

20 okt. 2021 15:12:41 George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>:

Arrgh! Some folks can see them, others cannot…here’s an attached jpeg.

Ike



On Oct 20, 2021, at 8:29 AM, aramsay18 <aramsay37@...> wrote:

Hello Ike - the drawing/picture didn't come through in your original email.

Thanks

Regards from Berryville VA
Andy Ramsay

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 5:53 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Evan:

I assume you could see the drawing so I won’t re-send….

In the late 1940s and 50s, all of the passenger car builders were very active in marketing their designs to the Southern. Sometimes we see unsolicited proposals, other times preliminary drawings that were changed before the cars were built. This particular drawing is part of a large group produced for the “Royal Palm” and “Crescent” orders in ’48. (Southern was the “lead” in ordering cars for all of the roads that purchased equipment for those trains; NYC, SR, PRR, L&N, A&WP and FEC so there are many drawings of their cars in the files.

As the Southern’s 1941 “Southerner” and “Tennesseean” cars used the new passenger lettering, I wonder why Budd did not follow that example in ’48? Obviously, no cars were lettered this way!

Ike

PS Here’s a Southern Railway trivia question. Where did the 1941 passenger car lettering come from?



On Oct 19, 2021, at 5:40 PM, Evan Whatley <Evan.w.what@...> wrote:

Ike- The image didn't attach correctly, but you got me on pins and needles wondering what changed? Did Budd propose Roman script on their car order?
--
-Evan Whatley





locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] Budd LtWt Pass Car Stencil Drawing - 1948

aramsay18
 

Hello Ike - the drawing/picture didn't come through in your original email.

Thanks

Regards from Berryville VA
Andy Ramsay

On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 5:53 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Evan:

I assume you could see the drawing so I won’t re-send….

In the late 1940s and 50s, all of the passenger car builders were very active in marketing their designs to the Southern. Sometimes we see unsolicited proposals, other times preliminary drawings that were changed before the cars were built. This particular drawing is part of a large group produced for the “Royal Palm” and “Crescent” orders in ’48. (Southern was the “lead” in ordering cars for all of the roads that purchased equipment for those trains; NYC, SR, PRR, L&N, A&WP and FEC so there are many drawings of their cars in the files.

As the Southern’s 1941 “Southerner” and “Tennesseean” cars used the new passenger lettering, I wonder why Budd did not follow that example in ’48? Obviously, no cars were lettered this way!

Ike

PS Here’s a Southern Railway trivia question. Where did the 1941 passenger car lettering come from?



On Oct 19, 2021, at 5:40 PM, Evan Whatley <Evan.w.what@...> wrote:

Ike- The image didn't attach correctly, but you got me on pins and needles wondering what changed? Did Budd propose Roman script on their car order?
--
-Evan Whatley


locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] Budd LtWt Pass Car Stencil Drawing - 1948

George Eichelberger
 

Evan:

I assume you could see the drawing so I won’t re-send….

In the late 1940s and 50s, all of the passenger car builders were very active in marketing their designs to the Southern. Sometimes we see unsolicited proposals, other times preliminary drawings that were changed before the cars were built. This particular drawing is part of a large group produced for the “Royal Palm” and “Crescent” orders in ’48. (Southern was the “lead” in ordering cars for all of the roads that purchased equipment for those trains; NYC, SR, PRR, L&N, A&WP and FEC so there are many drawings of their cars in the files.

As the Southern’s 1941 “Southerner” and “Tennesseean” cars used the new passenger lettering, I wonder why Budd did not follow that example in ’48? Obviously, no cars were lettered this way!

Ike

PS Here’s a Southern Railway trivia question. Where did the 1941 passenger car lettering come from?



On Oct 19, 2021, at 5:40 PM, Evan Whatley <Evan.w.what@...> wrote:

Ike- The image didn't attach correctly, but you got me on pins and needles wondering what changed? Did Budd propose Roman script on their car order?
--
-Evan Whatley


locked Budd LtWt Pass Car Stencil Drawing - 1948

George Eichelberger
 

This past SRHA archives work session at TVRM was very productive. The new scanner is in service and producing excellent scans. (One Pullman letter board drawing was 26 ft long!)

As is typical, we always find “surprises”. Here is an example, Budd drawing B74-07760 Exterior Signs and Letter boards 7-13-1948…(Notice anything unusual about the lettering?)

Ike




locked Re: ACL O 15 photos

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Barry
Fenton 


On Oct 19, 2021, at 5:10 PM, Barry Kimble <southernry@...> wrote:


Fenton,
Well done!
Barry

On Oct 19, 2021, at 3:02 PM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

Sorry I forgot to add the photos
<IMG_2069.jpg>
<IMG_2070.jpg>
<IMG_2071.jpg>

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