Date   

locked Re: Hydra cushion underframe & 20" cushioned coupler

George Eichelberger
 

And …. getting to more prototypical draft gear on models is a great concept! (Is a 2-56 screw really needed for HO couplers?)

Going back to the photo of Southern 115757. That group of Southern cars has quite a (steam era) history. Sou 115750-115774 are shown as “70-Ton Transformer Cars (Low Bulkhead) on freight car diagram book page* 33-F-77. The “CUF” was added by Evans Products as the cars were rebuilt (for the second time) from Sou 50-T wood racks Sou 122998-123499 (rblt Spencer ’55), Sou 120998-122997 and Sou 250400-250599 (rblt Coster ’56 & ’57) and Sou 301300-301343 (rblt Coster 1957) (Sou diag book page 31-F-97).

The wood racks were Coster Shop (Knoxville) rebuilds from 50-T DDB (double drop bottom) gondola series 175000-176344 and Sou 315700-315949. (Southern gons of the period were typically called “coal cars”.)

Virtually all of the original drawings, as-built and re-built, are in the SRHA archives but not every drawing was redrawn for the rebuilds so all of the versions of the cars need to be researched to model the transformer cars. With some research, we could go back and see what the original underframe/center sill drawings show.

Ike

PS Is there any interest in SRHA publishing an earlier version of the Southern freight car diagram book than we have available now?


locked Re: Large shippers box car requirements ...1954

Tim
 

This document is available here: http://southern.railfan.net/paper/sr_paper.html

It's listed as October 1979 but it's actually 1975.

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


locked Re: Large shippers box car requirements ...1954

Tim
 

I've got a pdf copy of the October 1, 1975, Car Assignment Book that I downloaded (from somewhere ...). It's a wonderful resource.

Tim


locked Re: Large shippers box car requirements ...1954

Sam Smith
 

As far as I have ever seen or heard of, the Southern applied ice breaking fixtures to the roofs of some GP30's and SD24's for a few years. Apparently, that didn't last long before these fixtures were removed.... mostly. I think the actual mounting points were left in place.

Sam


On Mon, Jan 31, 2022 at 12:29 PM, Jason Greene
<jason.p.greene@...> wrote:
I have seen actual car, and pictures of the Clinchfield version of what you were talking about. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a picture of one off the Southern. I’d be interested in seeing pictures if there was one. 

Jason Greene 

On Jan 31, 2022, at 12:01 PM, John M. Ware, P.E. <John@...> wrote:



To Anyone:

      A long time ago I saw a photo of a modified MOW railcar designed to break ice cycles from tunnels or any other objects. The car was pushed ahead of the locomotive for obvious reasons. As I recall it was either a flat car or gondola with a hoop type steel structure shaped to the track clearance limits. My guess is that it was made  in a railroad shop. I don’t remember  the railroad, but  maybe it was from the “Rat Hole” Division of the CNO&TP. Do not remember if the loco was steam or diesel. If anyone has a photo or drawing, it would be helpful for a project that I am working on.

 

Thanks,

John Warel

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 10:14 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Large shippers box car requirements ...1954

 

Tim:

 

Glad you can make use of it!

 

I expect we will have a PDF of the 1-1-76 Southern car assignment book available as a download soon. It contains 302 pages (!) of all of the various  Southern freight cars assigned to particular shippers or locations - on and off line. In addition to Southern and CofG rolling stock, cars from ACL to UP assigned to locations on the Southern are included.

 

Cost to download will be reasonable. We want to determine how much interest there may be for this kind of Southern “prototype” data and if people will honor the “do not distribute” request.

 

The ability to order other Southern and CofG drawings, photos and documents is also “in the works”. Until then, attending one of the SRHA archives work sessions is the best way to see what is available and do research.

 

Ike

 

 

 

On Jan 31, 2022, at 9:02 AM, Tim <tarumph@...> wrote:

 

Ike,

Thanks for posting this. It will be a big help with planning traffic on my layout (Southern S-Line).

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC

 


locked Re: Large shippers box car requirements ...1954

Jason Greene
 

I have seen actual car, and pictures of the Clinchfield version of what you were talking about. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a picture of one off the Southern. I’d be interested in seeing pictures if there was one. 

Jason Greene 

On Jan 31, 2022, at 12:01 PM, John M. Ware, P.E. <John@...> wrote:



To Anyone:

      A long time ago I saw a photo of a modified MOW railcar designed to break ice cycles from tunnels or any other objects. The car was pushed ahead of the locomotive for obvious reasons. As I recall it was either a flat car or gondola with a hoop type steel structure shaped to the track clearance limits. My guess is that it was made  in a railroad shop. I don’t remember  the railroad, but  maybe it was from the “Rat Hole” Division of the CNO&TP. Do not remember if the loco was steam or diesel. If anyone has a photo or drawing, it would be helpful for a project that I am working on.

 

Thanks,

John Warel

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 10:14 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Large shippers box car requirements ...1954

 

Tim:

 

Glad you can make use of it!

 

I expect we will have a PDF of the 1-1-76 Southern car assignment book available as a download soon. It contains 302 pages (!) of all of the various  Southern freight cars assigned to particular shippers or locations - on and off line. In addition to Southern and CofG rolling stock, cars from ACL to UP assigned to locations on the Southern are included.

 

Cost to download will be reasonable. We want to determine how much interest there may be for this kind of Southern “prototype” data and if people will honor the “do not distribute” request.

 

The ability to order other Southern and CofG drawings, photos and documents is also “in the works”. Until then, attending one of the SRHA archives work sessions is the best way to see what is available and do research.

 

Ike

 

 

 

On Jan 31, 2022, at 9:02 AM, Tim <tarumph@...> wrote:

 

Ike,

Thanks for posting this. It will be a big help with planning traffic on my layout (Southern S-Line).

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC

 


locked Re: Large shippers box car requirements ...1954

John M. Ware, P.E.
 

To Anyone:

      A long time ago I saw a photo of a modified MOW railcar designed to break ice cycles from tunnels or any other objects. The car was pushed ahead of the locomotive for obvious reasons. As I recall it was either a flat car or gondola with a hoop type steel structure shaped to the track clearance limits. My guess is that it was made  in a railroad shop. I don’t remember  the railroad, but  maybe it was from the “Rat Hole” Division of the CNO&TP. Do not remember if the loco was steam or diesel. If anyone has a photo or drawing, it would be helpful for a project that I am working on.

 

Thanks,

John Warel

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2022 10:14 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Large shippers box car requirements ...1954

 

Tim:

 

Glad you can make use of it!

 

I expect we will have a PDF of the 1-1-76 Southern car assignment book available as a download soon. It contains 302 pages (!) of all of the various  Southern freight cars assigned to particular shippers or locations - on and off line. In addition to Southern and CofG rolling stock, cars from ACL to UP assigned to locations on the Southern are included.

 

Cost to download will be reasonable. We want to determine how much interest there may be for this kind of Southern “prototype” data and if people will honor the “do not distribute” request.

 

The ability to order other Southern and CofG drawings, photos and documents is also “in the works”. Until then, attending one of the SRHA archives work sessions is the best way to see what is available and do research.

 

Ike

 

 

 

On Jan 31, 2022, at 9:02 AM, Tim <tarumph@...> wrote:

 

Ike,

Thanks for posting this. It will be a big help with planning traffic on my layout (Southern S-Line).

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC

 


locked Re: Large shippers box car requirements ...1954

George Eichelberger
 

Tim:

Glad you can make use of it!

I expect we will have a PDF of the 1-1-76 Southern car assignment book available as a download soon. It contains 302 pages (!) of all of the various  Southern freight cars assigned to particular shippers or locations - on and off line. In addition to Southern and CofG rolling stock, cars from ACL to UP assigned to locations on the Southern are included.

Cost to download will be reasonable. We want to determine how much interest there may be for this kind of Southern “prototype” data and if people will honor the “do not distribute” request.

The ability to order other Southern and CofG drawings, photos and documents is also “in the works”. Until then, attending one of the SRHA archives work sessions is the best way to see what is available and do research.

Ike



On Jan 31, 2022, at 9:02 AM, Tim <tarumph@...> wrote:

Ike,

Thanks for posting this. It will be a big help with planning traffic on my layout (Southern S-Line).

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


locked Re: Large shippers box car requirements ...1954

O Fenton Wells
 

Great shot Bill.  I’ve got some neat photos (SRY) photos of Champion paper (50’s)from a guy who’s mom worked for Champion and who’s dad worked for the SR. I used them in my pulp wood clinic
Fenton 


On Jan 31, 2022, at 9:33 AM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

The Murphy Branch trains “locals” looked like they belonged on the main line - full road power, plenty of cars. When I first encountered these trains arriving Asheville Yard in the 1960s, I couldn’t believe they were from the Murphy Branch. Five F-units, trailed by a long string of cars. Below taken May 19, 1968. 
 
—Bill





On Jan 31, 2022, at 09:02, Tim <tarumph@...> wrote:

Ike,

Thanks for posting this. It will be a big help with planning traffic on my layout (Southern S-Line).

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


locked Re: Large shippers box car requirements ...1954

Bill Schafer
 

The Murphy Branch trains “locals” looked like they belonged on the main line - full road power, plenty of cars. When I first encountered these trains arriving Asheville Yard in the 1960s, I couldn’t believe they were from the Murphy Branch. Five F-units, trailed by a long string of cars. Below taken May 19, 1968. 
 
—Bill





On Jan 31, 2022, at 09:02, Tim <tarumph@...> wrote:

Ike,

Thanks for posting this. It will be a big help with planning traffic on my layout (Southern S-Line).

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


locked Re: Large shippers box car requirements ...1954

Tim
 

Ike,

Thanks for posting this. It will be a big help with planning traffic on my layout (Southern S-Line).

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


locked Re: standard bricks

Craig Myers
 

don't think so 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of mike turner <michaellturner@...>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2022 10:27:05 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] standard bricks
 
Did Southern have a standard brick size or sizes?

--
Mike Turner
MP-Z35







locked standard bricks

John Willis
 

his from the web:

"According to the Brick Industry Association, the most common brick sizes range from 31/2" x 21/4" x 7 5/8" to 3 5/8 x 3 5/8 x 11 5/8" as measured by Depth x Height x Length. Manufacturers produce bricks to their own specifications but generally fall within these commonly produced sizes."

Casa W here in Mobile was sheathed with bricks from the Henry Brick Company. Lots of choices. You should never give a woman that many choices. It took my wife a couple of months and much agonizing  ( and agitation on my part ) to choose the Mission Brick that is now 50 years old. Henry Brick Company was started in 1945 in Selma, Al.  I did a brief search and found that Acme Brick in Texas, the oldest company still doing continuous business started in 1892. Bricks are one of man's earliest building materials. I know that Monticello was built with bricks made on site, as many early buildings were done.

 Many, many, many homes here are done with "Old Brick" - a recovered brick that has a very appealing mottled pattern. I can't recall when or where I've seen a "red brick" building, although I'm sure they are here. Brick is a great material, but cost quite a bit now - what doesn't?

John



John C. Willis

Love brick, Al


locked Re: standard bricks

Warren Stephens
 

David Steinberg wrote the definitive history of Chattanooga Terminal Station. It has been typeset but has yet to be printed. I am fortunate to have an unbound loose-leaf copy. He goes into detail about where the bricks were sourced. I don't recall any notion of a standard brick or a standard vendor. Interesting question. 

Warren   

On Thursday, January 27, 2022, 10:27:14 PM EST, mike turner <michaellturner@...> wrote:


Did Southern have a standard brick size or sizes?

--
Mike Turner
MP-Z35







locked standard bricks

mike turner
 

Did Southern have a standard brick size or sizes?

--
Mike Turner
MP-Z35


locked Re: Double Track Direction

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

Usually right hand running, so usually they passed left (fireman's) side to left... but... there was one section on the Birmingham division which was shared with the CofGa which used left hand running, 

Aidrian

On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 3:14 AM Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...> wrote:
Dumb question night.

When Southern trains passed on double tracks, which side of the engine was to the inside of the double tracks adjacent to the train it was passing?
--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


locked Double Track Direction

Allen Cain
 

Dumb question night.

When Southern trains passed on double tracks, which side of the engine was to the inside of the double tracks adjacent to the train it was passing?
--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


locked Thread from Modern Freight Car List (MFCL)

George Eichelberger
 

All:

This copied from the MFCL list.

As I have said many times, the SRHA archives are full of this kind of (detailed) material. We need help scanning and organizing everything!

Ike



2a. 
Southern Automobile Car Pgm (ACP) 852, Deracking 149 auto racks in 1977 
From: George Eichelberger
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 16:33:13 PST 

Although the information is very much in “raw” form and not well organized, the SRHA archives have many Mechanical Dept. and Hayne Shop files on car rebuild programs (Special Car Programs - SCPs), new car programs, (NCP and NEP) and automobile car programs, (ACPs). The files represent the “nuts and bolts” of the railroad’s rolling stock. Documents can run from orders for hardware to specifications and lists of equipment included in each project.


The following page is a good example of an internal SR document that provides a lot of information.

In 1977, the Southern had a disproportionate number of auto racks in various pools and Trailer Train wanted leased F89CH and DH flats returned for use as PB flats. The process began with GM releasing racks and Southern making arrangements to have them “deracked” and returned to TTX. Interesting items include a list of the GM assignments the cars were removed from, if the cars had shields and how they were equipped.

Ike




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2b. 
Re: Southern Automobile Car Pgm (ACP) 852, Deracking 149 auto racks in 1977 
From: Dick Dawson
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:20:11 PST 

Ike,

This is interesting information but permit me to make a brief comment.  These cars were not “leased” from Trailer Train.  They were “assigned” to the Southern Railway and could be returned by the Southern at any time – providing that they were returned in the same condition as when they were provided, which is to say that the rack had been removed.  In practice this meant that the Southern was responsible for payment of per diem to Trailer Train so long as the rack remained on the car.  If the car was on the lines of another railroad, that road paid the combined per diem charge for both car and rack to Trailer Train, who passed on the per diem remittance for the rack to the Southern.  

Trailer Train’s title to the car may have been subject to a lease from a lessor, a conditional sales agreement, or an equipment trust.  

The F89CHs were apparently to be sent to Trailer Train’s shop at Hamburg, SC after deracking to be prepared for their next assignment while the F89DHs were to be sent to the Pullman-Standard shop in Hammond, IN (not Inc.).  It’s interesting that the Pullman-built F89CHs were to be sent to Trailer Train’s own shop while the ACF-built F89DHs were to be sent to a Pullman shop (which did a lot of car modification work for Trailer Train and other car owners).  

Dick Dawson

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2c. 
Re: Southern Automobile Car Pgm (ACP) 852, Deracking 149 auto racks in 1977 
From: George Eichelberger
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 17:34:27 PST 

Dick:

I understand the cars were not "leased" in the TTX context. The Southern memos appear to use "leased" and "assigned" somewhat interchangeably. That may have been because the TTX cars, with Southern racks were said to be "assigned" to GM, Ford, etc. Saying "leased" may have been considered less confusing than a car appearing to have two assignments??

Ike

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2d. 
Re: Southern Automobile Car Pgm (ACP) 852, Deracking 149 auto racks in 1977 
From: Dick Dawson
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 19:31:38 PST 

That makes sense, Ike.  

Dick

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2e. 
Re: Southern Automobile Car Pgm (ACP) 852, Deracking 149 auto racks in 1977 
From: George Eichelberger
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 19:42:20 PST 

Dick:

Somewhere (?) in everything I've been scanning, I recall a reason given why the DH and CH racks were sent to specific shops but I cannot find that scan. Memory tells me it had something to do with repairs to the floors and one of the shops had experience with that work???

Re TTX "leases": As I mentioned in an earlier post, railroads sometime spoke in their own "language". Note the last paragraph of the attached...

Ike
PS For anyone really "hard core" on any of this, they are welcome to come to the SRHA archives at TVRM and help organize and publish what we have. PB flats and auto racks are well represented in the hard copy and microfilm aperture card drawing collection. Contact SRHA @ archives@....

 Attachments:
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2f. 
Re: Southern Automobile Car Pgm (ACP) 852, Deracking 149 auto racks in 1977 
From: Mark Rickert
Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2022 21:49:41 PST 

So I have to ask was GM planning to build less cars going forward, too many cars in the pools or was the southern then on the hook to come up with replacement racked cars? The memo seems to be saying at least some cars are in active service opposed to spare cars parked someplace out of the way.

Mark Rickert 
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2g. 
Re: Southern Automobile Car Pgm (ACP) 852, Deracking 149 auto racks in 1977 
From: George Eichelberger
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 06:06:50 PST 

Mark:

Memos in the file show some people at the Southern were confused by the "plan". Although GM was forecasting an increase in auto production, because the Southern had more auto racks in the GM pools than required, their (rental/lease?) payments to TTX (made as Dick Dawson mentioned) for cars and investment in racks that were not 100% used reduced Southern's "bottom line" for the business. The fact that some of the racks were 14 years old and TTX needed them added to the decision. (Yes, Southern was also acquiring new racks for GM service at the same time. The number of "ACPs" in progress at any one time makes it difficult to keep track of how many auto racks the railroad had at any one time. 

One of my projects has been a spreadsheet that records any event auto rack "event" I find in the SR records. It is full of inconsistencies/duplications/errors but if anyone is interested (and "truly hard core"), send me a off list email and I'll forward the 6,300+ entry SS.)

Note the 2-3-78 memo in my earlier post. The TTX flats cost Southern $11.40/day or $627/day for the group of 55 discussed in the memo.

Ike
PS The Southern was "big" in auto racks because of the GM and Ford plants in Atlanta and the long distances (per-mile revenue) to western, midwestern and northeastern connections and destinations. The number of racks in pools were determined by the proportion of the total number to be loaded and the mileage per railroad(s) they traveled on. I would be curious to know how many miles racks moved on roads that were not in a particular pool. They would simply pay the cars' per diem rates.

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2h. 
Re: Southern Automobile Car Pgm (ACP) 852, Deracking 149 auto racks in 1977 
From: mopacfirst
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2022 06:36:55 PST 

Inquiring minds want to know -- how was the deracking done?  I'm not that familiar with rack construction, so I don't even know if the racks are welded or bolted together.  Could the entire rack be lifted off and maintained in more-or-less one piece, to perhaps be re-mounted on a different car?  Or were they disassembled and the components stored?  I'm familiar with how structural steel is fabricated.

Ron Merrick

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locked Re: McDonough Wood Yard.

O Fenton Wells
 

Excellent Bill, thanks for sharing, love the pulpwood
Fenton

On Tue, Jan 25, 2022 at 8:50 AM Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:
1976 view from one of those (older, 40’) cars of pulpwood. 



On Jan 24, 2022, at 17:10, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

Couldn't pull 'em until they were all loaded, or they wised up and started loading from switch end.
On 01/24/2022 3:44 PM Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:


So when they did load from end to switch, you just wouldn’t pull the track til all were full or did the woodyards start loading from the switch?

Trying to plan for the layout. 

Jason Greene 

On Jan 24, 2022, at 4:08 PM, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

Typical. Woodyards always wanted to load from end of track towards switch. Eventually, instructions were not to move partial loads because of the instability of the wood until fully loaded. 
CEA



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


locked Re: McDonough Wood Yard.

Bill Schafer
 

1976 view from one of those (older, 40’) cars of pulpwood. 



On Jan 24, 2022, at 17:10, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

Couldn't pull 'em until they were all loaded, or they wised up and started loading from switch end.
On 01/24/2022 3:44 PM Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:


So when they did load from end to switch, you just wouldn’t pull the track til all were full or did the woodyards start loading from the switch?

Trying to plan for the layout. 

Jason Greene 

On Jan 24, 2022, at 4:08 PM, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

Typical. Woodyards always wanted to load from end of track towards switch. Eventually, instructions were not to move partial loads because of the instability of the wood until fully loaded. 
CEA


locked Re: Southern 318202

Gerhard Anderson
 

My Pleasure.

On Jan 24, 2022, at 7:29 PM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


Another great SR photo thanks for sharing 
Fenton 

On Jan 24, 2022, at 7:23 PM, Gerhard Anderson <gerharda@...> wrote:



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