Date   

locked Re: Southern Railway divisions

John
 

Division with HQ location in ().   
Eastern (Greensboro)
Piedmont (Greenville)
Carolina (Asheville)
Georgia (Atlanta)
Coastal (Macon)
Alabama (Birmingham)
Tennessee (Knoxville)
Kentucky (Somerset)
Western (Louisville)
Crescent (Hattiesburg)
Appalachia (Andover)


locked Re: Southern Railway divisions

Cohen Bob
 

I can tell you that the old Norfolk Division was combined in the Richmond Division in 1932 and that Danville-Washington-Richmond divisions that had been separate were combined into the Eastern Division 1965-1968 after going by the 3 former named divisions about 1965. Since the 1970s and 80s lots more changes have occurred.

That's all I can recall.

Bob Cohen


locked Re: LNHS/SRHA/TVRM Convention and RPM

George Eichelberger
 

Title wise with SRHA, I am the Archives Director, one of SRHA’s BOD members. 

You can use the “Private” link on an .io posting to email only the sender of that item. “Archives@...” also gets mail directly to me.

Ike



On Feb 10, 2022, at 10:20 AM, Michael Shirey <Southern4603T@...> wrote:

 Thanks for the updated information Ike! 

 May I ask what capacity do you serve at for the SRHA?  I ask because I have a business related question I didn't know who was on this group. Maybe we should chat in private?

 Thanks for your time Mike.

 

On Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 08:46 George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Michael:

Yes! We expect to post details on the convention activities as they are finalized. Registration will most likely be done using the TVRM system that’s in place now, with links from the L&NHS and SRHA web sites.

Even though we will not need to use hotel banquet or meeting facilities, we will post a list of negotiated hotel room rates for folks to select.

We wanted to make people aware of the dates as early as possible, both to plan on being there starting Thursday AND to get their models ready for the display area.

It’s not too early for anyone to offer to do a clinic, either model or prototype subject. If there is material in the archives that will help, it will be available.

Ike



On Feb 10, 2022, at 12:12 AM, Michael Shirey <Southern4603T@...> wrote:

 When will convention information be listed on SRHA website, So members can sign up to attend?

On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 5:58 PM Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:
Attached




--

Michael Shirey

Southern Railway Historical Association Member #9748
and Modeler of the Modern DT&I and Southern Railway





locked Re: LNHS/SRHA/TVRM Convention and RPM

Michael Shirey
 

 Thanks for the updated information Ike! 

 May I ask what capacity do you serve at for the SRHA?  I ask because I have a business related question I didn't know who was on this group. Maybe we should chat in private?

 Thanks for your time Mike.

 


On Thu, Feb 10, 2022, 08:46 George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Michael:

Yes! We expect to post details on the convention activities as they are finalized. Registration will most likely be done using the TVRM system that’s in place now, with links from the L&NHS and SRHA web sites.

Even though we will not need to use hotel banquet or meeting facilities, we will post a list of negotiated hotel room rates for folks to select.

We wanted to make people aware of the dates as early as possible, both to plan on being there starting Thursday AND to get their models ready for the display area.

It’s not too early for anyone to offer to do a clinic, either model or prototype subject. If there is material in the archives that will help, it will be available.

Ike



On Feb 10, 2022, at 12:12 AM, Michael Shirey <Southern4603T@...> wrote:

 When will convention information be listed on SRHA website, So members can sign up to attend?

On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 5:58 PM Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:
Attached




--

Michael Shirey

Southern Railway Historical Association Member #9748
and Modeler of the Modern DT&I and Southern Railway


locked Livestock moving on Southern

George Eichelberger
 

There are some large files on Southern’s livestock business in the SRHA files. Until large scale refrigeration came available, animals were shipped live to various processing plants to reduce the time to ship processed meat. Here is an example…

Ike


locked Re: LNHS/SRHA/TVRM Convention and RPM

George Eichelberger
 

Michael:

Yes! We expect to post details on the convention activities as they are finalized. Registration will most likely be done using the TVRM system that’s in place now, with links from the L&NHS and SRHA web sites.

Even though we will not need to use hotel banquet or meeting facilities, we will post a list of negotiated hotel room rates for folks to select.

We wanted to make people aware of the dates as early as possible, both to plan on being there starting Thursday AND to get their models ready for the display area.

It’s not too early for anyone to offer to do a clinic, either model or prototype subject. If there is material in the archives that will help, it will be available.

Ike



On Feb 10, 2022, at 12:12 AM, Michael Shirey <Southern4603T@...> wrote:

 When will convention information be listed on SRHA website, So members can sign up to attend?

On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 5:58 PM Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:
Attached




--

Michael Shirey

Southern Railway Historical Association Member #9748
and Modeler of the Modern DT&I and Southern Railway


locked Southern Railway divisions

Michael Shirey
 

What divisions did Southern Railway operate up until 1982? I had a list of Divisions here somewhere and I can't find them. I need someone to remind me of what there was before NS. Thanks...


locked Re: LNHS/SRHA/TVRM Convention and RPM

Michael Shirey
 

 When will convention information be listed on SRHA website, So members can sign up to attend?


On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 5:58 PM Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:
Attached



--

Michael Shirey

Southern Railway Historical Association Member #9748
and Modeler of the Modern DT&I and Southern Railway


locked LNHS/SRHA/TVRM Convention and RPM

Carl Ardrey
 

Attached


locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] Taking reservations for SOU G82/NS GS50 chip gon rerun

George Eichelberger
 

Curt:

The New Car Program (NCP) file for these cars is probably in the archives. If someone will remember, we can look to find delivery dates, etc. at next week’s archives work session. Here is a reduced size/dpi copy of Ortner drawing OC-482, the stencil layout for these cars. (The quality of the drawing is rather poor, typical of a number of car orders just before the NS merger. We may have these drawings only on aperture card microfilm as there is not a Southern tracing in the scanned files….also typical of cars ordered through the 70s. 

The drawing date is 3-15-80. The earliest photo (of 139815, looking quite clean and new) is by Marvin Black, taken in Greensboro 4-15-81

Ike

PS This morning, the dates for the joint 2022 SRHA-L&NHS convention at TVRM were finalized to start Thursday Sep. 29 to Saturday Oct 1. A “Railroad Prototype Modelers” meet will be held with the convention. (Please send a note to archives@... if you might be willing to help or present a modeling or prototype clinic.)

More information will follow soon….(get your models ready!)




On Feb 8, 2022, at 1:04 PM, Curt Fortenberry <curtfortenberry@...> wrote:


When did Southern first get these?  I can't read the dates in the photos.

Curt Fortenberry


locked Green paint on SR E-8's

SouRwyFan
 

Still searching...

Hi all,

When Southern repainted their E-8's for "Southern Crescent" service in the early 1970's does anyone know if that color was the same as the Green they were delivered in? I have a paint code number from the original painting diagram but can't seem to find anything on the 1970 repainting. I have heard varied opinions but has anyone run across any documentation they could/would share Or if there is any files or paint chip reference for the repaint in the archives. If so I'd like to talk, email me offlist to discuss further.

TIA, Rahl

 

 
 


locked Re: Coal in Tennessee

George Eichelberger
 

Andy:

I don’t think we have ever scanned any of the cipher books in the archives. They were changed periodically and we have several. 

The use of ciphers seems to have dropped off when telegrams started using teletype machines rather than an operator. I imagine more than one telegraph operator made some money “on the side” when he saw something interesting in a telegraph message.

Here is an example cipher from the same archives Presidents’ file box 124, File 5127 dated 8-3-1903. Someone, using a cipher book has typed in the replaced text above transmitted version.

Ike
 PS If folks will review the list of Presidents’ files scans I posted and find something interesting, I will post some examples from that file.



On Feb 6, 2022, at 3:28 PM, aramsay18 <aramsay37@...> wrote:

Ike, very interesting letter.  Thanks for sending it.  Do you have their cipher book?  It would have likely been largely phrases, company names, placenames, management names, etc. encoded in some sort of numeric substitution.

Best Regards from Berryville VA
Andy Ramsay

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 10:21 AM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Although very little coal has been mined along the CNO&TP and H&NE for years, the early 1900s Southern Railway Presidents’ file include multiple files on new discoveries, possible new rail lines, SR or competing, and export opportunities (mainly through Charleston). The attached three-page letter is one of a series of telegrams, some in cipher, that gives a good indication of how important coal traffic was. The wording of the letter is somewhat unusual as it describes a possible L&N “invasion” into Southern territory.

The detailed list of Presidents’ files that have been scanned I posted yesterday shows multiple examples. (There are many more files to be scanned…volunteers are needed.)

Ike 

PS The L&NHS is in the process of moving their archives into the TVRM archives building at Chattanooga. Both groups will be working in the archives Feb 18 and 19th. Also, it is early in the planning process (and still tentative) but now is the time to plan to go to TVRM around Oct 1st for a combined SRHA-L&NHS convention. If (!) there is enough interest and arrangements can be made, a “Railway Prototype Modelers” (RPM) meet will be scheduled there at the same time. Details will follows as they are decided but it may be time to plan to go to Chattanooga, and bring your best prototype models for several busy days at TVRM.

<1903-8-3 L&N "invasion" Pg 1 copy.jpeg>

<1903-8-3 L&N "invasion" Pg 2 copy.jpeg>

<1903-8-3 L&N "invasion" Pg 3 copy.jpeg>




locked Re: Coal in Tennessee

aramsay18
 

Ike, very interesting letter.  Thanks for sending it.  Do you have their cipher book?  It would have likely been largely phrases, company names, placenames, management names, etc. encoded in some sort of numeric substitution.

Best Regards from Berryville VA
Andy Ramsay

On Sun, Feb 6, 2022 at 10:21 AM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Although very little coal has been mined along the CNO&TP and H&NE for years, the early 1900s Southern Railway Presidents’ file include multiple files on new discoveries, possible new rail lines, SR or competing, and export opportunities (mainly through Charleston). The attached three-page letter is one of a series of telegrams, some in cipher, that gives a good indication of how important coal traffic was. The wording of the letter is somewhat unusual as it describes a possible L&N “invasion” into Southern territory.

The detailed list of Presidents’ files that have been scanned I posted yesterday shows multiple examples. (There are many more files to be scanned…volunteers are needed.)

Ike 

PS The L&NHS is in the process of moving their archives into the TVRM archives building at Chattanooga. Both groups will be working in the archives Feb 18 and 19th. Also, it is early in the planning process (and still tentative) but now is the time to plan to go to TVRM around Oct 1st for a combined SRHA-L&NHS convention. If (!) there is enough interest and arrangements can be made, a “Railway Prototype Modelers” (RPM) meet will be scheduled there at the same time. Details will follows as they are decided but it may be time to plan to go to Chattanooga, and bring your best prototype models for several busy days at TVRM.




locked Coal in Tennessee

George Eichelberger
 

Although very little coal has been mined along the CNO&TP and H&NE for years, the early 1900s Southern Railway Presidents’ file include multiple files on new discoveries, possible new rail lines, SR or competing, and export opportunities (mainly through Charleston). The attached three-page letter is one of a series of telegrams, some in cipher, that gives a good indication of how important coal traffic was. The wording of the letter is somewhat unusual as it describes a possible L&N “invasion” into Southern territory.

The detailed list of Presidents’ files that have been scanned I posted yesterday shows multiple examples. (There are many more files to be scanned…volunteers are needed.)

Ike 

PS The L&NHS is in the process of moving their archives into the TVRM archives building at Chattanooga. Both groups will be working in the archives Feb 18 and 19th. Also, it is early in the planning process (and still tentative) but now is the time to plan to go to TVRM around Oct 1st for a combined SRHA-L&NHS convention. If (!) there is enough interest and arrangements can be made, a “Railway Prototype Modelers” (RPM) meet will be scheduled there at the same time. Details will follows as they are decided but it may be time to plan to go to Chattanooga, and bring your best prototype models for several busy days at TVRM.




locked Re: Hydra cushion underframe & 20" cushioned coupler

Jim King
 

To me, the give-away that this was made from an old car is the trucks.  They have chilled (inner ribs) and a spring plank, making them, I think, a Barber S-2-A that appeared in the late 1930s.  I'm producing the Milwaukee full-length rib side box in S scale now and this truck was used under these cars that debuted in 1939.  In 1945-ish, MILW was using the same truck but with non-ribbed wheels.  Spring planks disappeared in the late 40s with the advent of better-tracking trucks, like the super-common ASF Ride Control with deep spring cavity.


locked Re: Hydra cushion underframe & 20" cushioned coupler

George Eichelberger
 

A minor factoid about Southern diagram books. Although we have steam loco diagram books going back to before the SR itself, the railroad apparently did not produce freight car books until some time in the late 50s/early 60s.

Does anybody know of such a thing?

Ike

On Feb 3, 2022, at 12:44 PM, Ed Burnett <ctwrwy@...> wrote:

I agree with Brother Wells, I'm interested in 1950's and back. A book of diagrams dealing with cars of the steam/transition era would be of interest to me. Of course, we are probably in the same demographic! -Ed Burnett, Lynchburg, Virginia


On 02/03/2022 12:36 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


An earlier version of the diagram book would interest me if by earlier you mean older cars. SU boxcars both 36 and 40 ft versions, wood cabooses, stock cars, vent cars and many older cars. Having said that, I’m older than many SR fans and not sure how much the rest of the audience shares my opinion.
One manufacturer said the SR cars in the block Southern were out selling the black RR Roman lettered cars. I was surprised and realized I am old
My 2 cents
Fenton
On Feb 3, 2022, at 12:21 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

And …. getting to more prototypical draft gear on models is a great concept! (Is a 2-56 screw really needed for HO couplers?)

Going back to the photo of Southern 115757. That group of Southern cars has quite a (steam era) history. Sou 115750-115774 are shown as “70-Ton Transformer Cars (Low Bulkhead) on freight car diagram book page* 33-F-77. The “CUF” was added by Evans Products as the cars were rebuilt (for the second time) from Sou 50-T wood racks Sou 122998-123499 (rblt Spencer ’55), Sou 120998-122997 and Sou 250400-250599 (rblt Coster ’56 & ’57) and Sou 301300-301343 (rblt Coster 1957) (Sou diag book page 31-F-97).

The wood racks were Coster Shop (Knoxville) rebuilds from 50-T DDB (double drop bottom) gondola series 175000-176344 and Sou 315700-315949. (Southern gons of the period were typically called “coal cars”.)

Virtually all of the original drawings, as-built and re-built, are in the SRHA archives but not every drawing was redrawn for the rebuilds so all of the versions of the cars need to be researched to model the transformer cars. With some research, we could go back and see what the original underframe/center sill drawings show.

Ike

PS Is there any interest in SRHA publishing an earlier version of the Southern freight car diagram book than we have available now?





locked Re: Hydra cushion underframe & 20" cushioned coupler

George Eichelberger
 

All:

Great stuff...good questions!

The revised version of the 40' box car book is far along! With so much going on at the archives, TRVM and even a little bit of SR modeling, dedicating time to it has been difficult. Version 2 is far different (better?) than  V1. So much more 40' box car data, esp. rebuilds, has been located in the archives, my problem now is the draft is too large! The Southern's 40' box car rebuild programs were extensive. Between rebuild photos and the "nuts and bolts" of the rebuilds, we have some superb material that will be useful to modelers and everyone else.

I can't promise but I'll try to have a PDF of the draft of the book at the Feb archives work session. Best guess??, we may be able to get it published this Summer. The NS Print Shop has done work for us (at cost) twice. With the move to the new building, etc., etc. I don't know if we'll have to find a different printer. Any candidates on the list?

There are several other SRHA publications in the works right now: the earlier version of the Southern freight car diagram book, the Southern freight car equipment manual, and more rolling stock books. The first thing to be available very shortly is a 303 page Southern freight car assignment book circa 1975. That includes multiple other railroads' cars assigned to shippers on the Southern or as part of pools that include Southern.

I also want to see SRHA produce more of the "plan packs". We tried to do cars that corresponded to what WrightTrak was doing at the time. At trains shows, most people that bought one of the kits from SRHA., also bought the plan pack, usually about 20 single side tabloid pages.

Ike


locked Re: Hydra cushion underframe & 20" cushioned coupler

Ed Burnett
 

I agree with Brother Wells, I'm interested in 1950's and back. A book of diagrams dealing with cars of the steam/transition era would be of interest to me. Of course, we are probably in the same demographic! -Ed Burnett, Lynchburg, Virginia

On 02/03/2022 12:36 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


An earlier version of the diagram book would interest me if by earlier you mean older cars. SU boxcars both 36 and 40 ft versions, wood cabooses, stock cars, vent cars and many older cars. Having said that, I’m older than many SR fans and not sure how much the rest of the audience shares my opinion.
One manufacturer said the SR cars in the block Southern were out selling the black RR Roman lettered cars. I was surprised and realized I am old
My 2 cents
Fenton
On Feb 3, 2022, at 12:21 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

And …. getting to more prototypical draft gear on models is a great concept! (Is a 2-56 screw really needed for HO couplers?)

Going back to the photo of Southern 115757. That group of Southern cars has quite a (steam era) history. Sou 115750-115774 are shown as “70-Ton Transformer Cars (Low Bulkhead) on freight car diagram book page* 33-F-77. The “CUF” was added by Evans Products as the cars were rebuilt (for the second time) from Sou 50-T wood racks Sou 122998-123499 (rblt Spencer ’55), Sou 120998-122997 and Sou 250400-250599 (rblt Coster ’56 & ’57) and Sou 301300-301343 (rblt Coster 1957) (Sou diag book page 31-F-97).

The wood racks were Coster Shop (Knoxville) rebuilds from 50-T DDB (double drop bottom) gondola series 175000-176344 and Sou 315700-315949. (Southern gons of the period were typically called “coal cars”.)

Virtually all of the original drawings, as-built and re-built, are in the SRHA archives but not every drawing was redrawn for the rebuilds so all of the versions of the cars need to be researched to model the transformer cars. With some research, we could go back and see what the original underframe/center sill drawings show.

Ike

PS Is there any interest in SRHA publishing an earlier version of the Southern freight car diagram book than we have available now?





locked Re: Hydra cushion underframe & 20" cushioned coupler

O Fenton Wells
 

An earlier version of the diagram book would interest me if by earlier you mean older cars. SU boxcars both 36 and 40 ft versions, wood cabooses, stock cars, vent cars and many older cars. Having said that, I’m older than many SR fans and not sure how much the rest of the audience shares my opinion.
One manufacturer said the SR cars in the block Southern were out selling the black RR Roman lettered cars. I was surprised and realized I am old
My 2 cents
Fenton

On Feb 3, 2022, at 12:21 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

And …. getting to more prototypical draft gear on models is a great concept! (Is a 2-56 screw really needed for HO couplers?)

Going back to the photo of Southern 115757. That group of Southern cars has quite a (steam era) history. Sou 115750-115774 are shown as “70-Ton Transformer Cars (Low Bulkhead) on freight car diagram book page* 33-F-77. The “CUF” was added by Evans Products as the cars were rebuilt (for the second time) from Sou 50-T wood racks Sou 122998-123499 (rblt Spencer ’55), Sou 120998-122997 and Sou 250400-250599 (rblt Coster ’56 & ’57) and Sou 301300-301343 (rblt Coster 1957) (Sou diag book page 31-F-97).

The wood racks were Coster Shop (Knoxville) rebuilds from 50-T DDB (double drop bottom) gondola series 175000-176344 and Sou 315700-315949. (Southern gons of the period were typically called “coal cars”.)

Virtually all of the original drawings, as-built and re-built, are in the SRHA archives but not every drawing was redrawn for the rebuilds so all of the versions of the cars need to be researched to model the transformer cars. With some research, we could go back and see what the original underframe/center sill drawings show.

Ike

PS Is there any interest in SRHA publishing an earlier version of the Southern freight car diagram book than we have available now?




locked Re: Hydra cushion underframe & 20" cushioned coupler

Curt Fortenberry
 


Is the 40' boxcar book still coming?

Curt Fortenberry

On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 8:21 AM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
And …. getting to more prototypical draft gear on models is a great concept! (Is a 2-56 screw really needed for HO couplers?)

Going back to the photo of Southern 115757. That group of Southern cars has quite a (steam era) history. Sou 115750-115774 are shown as “70-Ton Transformer Cars (Low Bulkhead) on freight car diagram book page* 33-F-77. The “CUF” was added by Evans Products as the cars were rebuilt (for the second time) from Sou  50-T wood racks Sou 122998-123499 (rblt Spencer ’55), Sou 120998-122997 and Sou 250400-250599 (rblt Coster ’56 & ’57) and Sou 301300-301343 (rblt Coster 1957) (Sou diag book page 31-F-97).

The wood racks were Coster Shop (Knoxville) rebuilds from 50-T DDB (double drop bottom) gondola series 175000-176344 and Sou 315700-315949. (Southern gons of the period were typically called “coal cars”.)

Virtually all of the original drawings, as-built and re-built, are in the SRHA archives but not every drawing was redrawn for the rebuilds so all of the versions of the cars need to be researched to model the transformer cars. With some research, we could go back and see what the original underframe/center sill drawings show.

Ike

PS Is there any interest in SRHA publishing an earlier version of the Southern freight car diagram book than we have available now?




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