Date   

locked Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Will Kesler
 

Hi I’m new to the group and am still learning how this works but I thought I’d make a post on what I’m most interested in. Southern steam color photographs, I love seeing southern steam engines in color and I’ve already seen most that are on the internet and in books so maybe if anyone would be willing to post some here that would be very appreciated. Primary it’d be awesome to see some color shots of some Ts-1’s, Ps-4’s, or even Ms-4’s. Early Diesel action would be cool too.


locked Re: Dim memory

michael lowe
 

  I am not familiar with these operations, but I thought of possible research source, that might answer questions.  You might look at the ICC annual reports for these railroads , which had some contracts or leases listed in them.
   Michael Lowe 


locked Re: Dim memory

C J Wyatt
 

Since you had three pairs of through trains which ran over the N&W, N&W dining car crews were entitled to part of the business. In earlier times the dining car on the Birmingham Special all the way to Birmingham was N&W. I suspect in your time period the Washington-Knoxville dining-lounge was the equalizer for N&W.

Jack Wyatt

On Tuesday, June 14, 2022, 06:58:59 PM EDT, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3@...> wrote:


I hadn't thought about a TC office car.  That would make sense.  Perhaps it was only two diners being removed and serviced at Knoxville.  But my ancient memory says one, most likely the Tennessean was a N&W car.  Yet, why would a N&W diner be added in Washington instead of Lynchburg or Roanoke?  Perhaps I only recall some N&W cars that continued on to Chattanooga or Memphis on the Tennessean.  Anyone have knowledge of such cars?

George Courtney


locked Re: Dim memory

George Courtney
 

I hadn't thought about a TC office car.  That would make sense.  Perhaps it was only two diners being removed and serviced at Knoxville.  But my ancient memory says one, most likely the Tennessean was a N&W car.  Yet, why would a N&W diner be added in Washington instead of Lynchburg or Roanoke?  Perhaps I only recall some N&W cars that continued on to Chattanooga or Memphis on the Tennessean.  Anyone have knowledge of such cars?

George Courtney


locked Re: Dim memory

john w coniglio
 

I have seen 2 other possibilities, since TC pass. ended in about 1955. TC served Ft. Campbell and the cars you saw might have been troop movements.  I saw those trains a couple of times near my home on the belt line. The cars could have come from anywhere. Other idea is that until some time in the early 1960s, TC handled a few coaches carrying girls to Camp May? near Mayland. On the western end L&N brought the cars to Vine Hill near the state fairgrounds in Nashville. There TC picked them up and delivered them to Mayland. There could have been a similar move from Knoxville, I don't know. The info I do know is from watching trains and talking to TC crewmen.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 12:40 PM C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
Very curious. Around that time, The Tennessean did indeed have a DC - Knoxville diner-lounge, Interesting, the Carolina Special also had a Knoxville - Columbia diner-lounge. This idea seems crazy, but I wonder if the diner-lounge's were taken somewhere past Knoxville for servicing and returned on the next morning's CS.

I agree that Tennesse Central was out of the passenger business then, but I wonder if the possible TC sighting was an office car from that road making an off-line trip.

Jack Wyatt

On Monday, June 13, 2022, 10:26:22 PM EDT, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


Back in 1958 and 1959, at age 15 & 16, I worked at the Southern Railway Passenger station in Knoxville, Tn.  I only worked during the summers while school was out. I worked the evening shift from 3 pm to around 11 pm.  I sold Cokes and pre-made sandwiches and magazines at a stand in the station.  I have strong memories of Southern's Carolina Special pulling in, followed within 10 minutes if on time, the Tennessean.
Both trains were westbound.
My dim memory is of a Norfolk & Western passenger car being taken off the Tennessean and put on The Carolina Special.  I assumed the Carolina Special took the N&W car, it's maroon paint stands out, down to Harriman and interchanged it to the Tennessee Central to take to Nashville.
While I'm not sure about where the car was going, I'm sure about a N&W car being added to the Carolina Special.  Chats with Tennessee Central modelers say the TC wasn't offering passenger service at that time.  Once I think I read, the N&W car went on the end of a TC freight train for a few months.  Anyone have any knowledge of this?
I'm not saying my memory is correct.  But I've long had the memory of both trains being in the station longer than the Birmingham Special or Pelican were and of some switching action.  It's possible a diner was set off the Tennessean.  But my dim memory says the Carolina Special was scheduled to arrive first and departed second.  

George Courtney



--
John W. Coniglio
Read my most recent books, available at

Life's too short to shoot cheap film
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website: http://www.steamvalley.net
              



locked Re: Dim memory

C J Wyatt
 

Very curious. Around that time, The Tennessean did indeed have a DC - Knoxville diner-lounge, Interesting, the Carolina Special also had a Knoxville - Columbia diner-lounge. This idea seems crazy, but I wonder if the diner-lounge's were taken somewhere past Knoxville for servicing and returned on the next morning's CS.

I agree that Tennesse Central was out of the passenger business then, but I wonder if the possible TC sighting was an office car from that road making an off-line trip.

Jack Wyatt

On Monday, June 13, 2022, 10:26:22 PM EDT, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3@...> wrote:


Back in 1958 and 1959, at age 15 & 16, I worked at the Southern Railway Passenger station in Knoxville, Tn.  I only worked during the summers while school was out. I worked the evening shift from 3 pm to around 11 pm.  I sold Cokes and pre-made sandwiches and magazines at a stand in the station.  I have strong memories of Southern's Carolina Special pulling in, followed within 10 minutes if on time, the Tennessean.
Both trains were westbound.
My dim memory is of a Norfolk & Western passenger car being taken off the Tennessean and put on The Carolina Special.  I assumed the Carolina Special took the N&W car, it's maroon paint stands out, down to Harriman and interchanged it to the Tennessee Central to take to Nashville.
While I'm not sure about where the car was going, I'm sure about a N&W car being added to the Carolina Special.  Chats with Tennessee Central modelers say the TC wasn't offering passenger service at that time.  Once I think I read, the N&W car went on the end of a TC freight train for a few months.  Anyone have any knowledge of this?
I'm not saying my memory is correct.  But I've long had the memory of both trains being in the station longer than the Birmingham Special or Pelican were and of some switching action.  It's possible a diner was set off the Tennessean.  But my dim memory says the Carolina Special was scheduled to arrive first and departed second.  

George Courtney


locked Dim memory

George Courtney
 

Back in 1958 and 1959, at age 15 & 16, I worked at the Southern Railway Passenger station in Knoxville, Tn.  I only worked during the summers while school was out. I worked the evening shift from 3 pm to around 11 pm.  I sold Cokes and pre-made sandwiches and magazines at a stand in the station.  I have strong memories of Southern's Carolina Special pulling in, followed within 10 minutes if on time, the Tennessean.
Both trains were westbound.
My dim memory is of a Norfolk & Western passenger car being taken off the Tennessean and put on The Carolina Special.  I assumed the Carolina Special took the N&W car, it's maroon paint stands out, down to Harriman and interchanged it to the Tennessee Central to take to Nashville.
While I'm not sure about where the car was going, I'm sure about a N&W car being added to the Carolina Special.  Chats with Tennessee Central modelers say the TC wasn't offering passenger service at that time.  Once I think I read, the N&W car went on the end of a TC freight train for a few months.  Anyone have any knowledge of this?
I'm not saying my memory is correct.  But I've long had the memory of both trains being in the station longer than the Birmingham Special or Pelican were and of some switching action.  It's possible a diner was set off the Tennessean.  But my dim memory says the Carolina Special was scheduled to arrive first and departed second.  

George Courtney


locked Re: Map of Winston Salem NC

A&Y Dave in MD
 

A&Y,


Also try this interactive satellite view with historic map overlay.

 

North Carolina Maps: City of Winston-Salem Zone Map, 1930 (unc.edu) 

 

Friday, June 10, 2022, 11:24:38 AM, you wrote:


Try:

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Jun 10, 2022, at 11:03 AM, southernalco <pearcottage@...> wrote:

Does anyone have an old map (30's or 40's or older ) of Winston Salem NC



locked Re: Map of Winston Salem NC

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Try:

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Jun 10, 2022, at 11:03 AM, southernalco <pearcottage@...> wrote:

Does anyone have an old map (30's or 40's or older ) of Winston Salem NC


locked Map of Winston Salem NC

southernalco
 

Does anyone have an old map (30's or 40's or older ) of Winston Salem NC


locked Re: C&NW, BR, D&W, HPRA&Southern and Yadkin Railroad

Matt Bumgarner
 

Email sent.


On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 6:38 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Looking for experts and interested parties:

Among the Mr. Marvin Black’s major research files, Binder No 88 includes many documents, diesel orders and correspondence from and about the C&NW, BR, D&W, HPRA&Southern and Yadkin railroads. (If anyone knows all of those initials, they already begin to qualify as “knowledgable”.) The material (not yet scanned) could be made available for anyone particularly interested in those operations, esp. if they might be interested in producing an article for TIES, other historical group or commercial magazines.

Contact archives@....

Ike


locked C&NW, BR, D&W, HPRA&Southern and Yadkin Railroad

George Eichelberger
 

Looking for experts and interested parties:

Among the Mr. Marvin Black’s major research files, Binder No 88 includes many documents, diesel orders and correspondence from and about the C&NW, BR, D&W, HPRA&Southern and Yadkin railroads. (If anyone knows all of those initials, they already begin to qualify as “knowledgable”.) The material (not yet scanned) could be made available for anyone particularly interested in those operations, esp. if they might be interested in producing an article for TIES, other historical group or commercial magazines.

Contact archives@....

Ike


locked Re: Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s

Alexander Smart
 

Hi Gary

Thanks for your reply with helpful suggestions.
I checked out the TN valuation maps on the link, and they are very useful, lots to study.

I will now have a look at the aerial photos.

Thanks again.

Sandy
Oban, Scotland, UK


On 21 May 2022, at 14:12, Gary Bechdol <garyeb1947@...> wrote:

Hi, Sandy.

The Tennessee Comptroller's Office has valuation maps of all railroads in Tennessee available for free download at:


You will want to search Shelby County and Norfolk Southern Railway.

Aerial photos and topo maps are available for free viewing only at:


Gary E. Bechdol, PE
Stone Mountain, GA
Life Member:  SHRA, AREMA

On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 8:55 AM John Stewart <bhamrails@...> wrote:
Hello Sandy and all

Some suggestions:

Try accessing Sanborn maps through the Library of Congress website

Search:  loc sanborn maps Memphis

Try contacting the Memphis Rail and Trolley Museum, Mike Fleming, President and ask for sources; he’s a model railroader and knows a lot of folks in town

Since you’re seeking 1960s info I’d suggest going to the Memphis and Shelby County Division of Planning and Development.  For example they have online mapping and likely have older mapping as well

Try:

Historic Shelby County online historic aerial photos

Hope these ideas are helpful

John Stewart
Birmingham AL






locked Re: ETTs for the Atlanta-Birmingham line?

George Eichelberger
 

James and everyone:

A large percentage of ALL SR ETTs are in the SRHA archives and have ben scanned. The intention has been to publish the entire collection, most likely on-line. If any SRHA members are interested, and capable, of cropping, de-skewing and organizing the scans, they can be published by operating division, years or whatever is most logical.

If interested, send an email to archives@.... Better yet make plans to come to the June archives work session to see the work already done.

Ike


On May 21, 2022, at 9:51 PM, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:

Hey all, does anyone happen to have scans of any employee timetables for the Atlanta-Birmingham line they would be willing to share? 

Timetables for the 40s and 50s would be great, but I'll gladly take anything.


locked ETTs for the Atlanta-Birmingham line?

James Walton
 

Hey all, does anyone happen to have scans of any employee timetables for the Atlanta-Birmingham line they would be willing to share? 

Timetables for the 40s and 50s would be great, but I'll gladly take anything.


locked Re: Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s

Gary Bechdol
 

Hi, Sandy.

The Tennessee Comptroller's Office has valuation maps of all railroads in Tennessee available for free download at:


You will want to search Shelby County and Norfolk Southern Railway.

Aerial photos and topo maps are available for free viewing only at:


Gary E. Bechdol, PE
Stone Mountain, GA
Life Member:  SHRA, AREMA

On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 8:55 AM John Stewart <bhamrails@...> wrote:
Hello Sandy and all

Some suggestions:

Try accessing Sanborn maps through the Library of Congress website

Search:  loc sanborn maps Memphis

Try contacting the Memphis Rail and Trolley Museum, Mike Fleming, President and ask for sources; he’s a model railroader and knows a lot of folks in town

Since you’re seeking 1960s info I’d suggest going to the Memphis and Shelby County Division of Planning and Development.  For example they have online mapping and likely have older mapping as well

Try:

Historic Shelby County online historic aerial photos

Hope these ideas are helpful

John Stewart
Birmingham AL






locked Re: Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s

John Stewart
 

Hello Sandy and all

Some suggestions:

Try accessing Sanborn maps through the Library of Congress website

Search: loc sanborn maps Memphis

Try contacting the Memphis Rail and Trolley Museum, Mike Fleming, President and ask for sources; he’s a model railroader and knows a lot of folks in town

Since you’re seeking 1960s info I’d suggest going to the Memphis and Shelby County Division of Planning and Development. For example they have online mapping and likely have older mapping as well

Try:

Historic Shelby County online historic aerial photos

Hope these ideas are helpful

John Stewart
Birmingham AL


locked Re: Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s

Alexander Smart
 

Hello

I posted a request for information about Memphis City Yard in the 1960s yesterday.

I forgot to mention that I would also be interested in Memphis employee timetables, freight train procedures and terminal books, lists of stations and sidings, training manuals, conductors’s time books, etc. These would allow me to plan accurate switching moves for individual industries with specific classified tracks and spurs, with car capacities for each, and to correctly block freights coming from Forrest and other yards.

Finally the maps on the Condren site are not sufficient for my needs, but I’m finding it hard to access relevant Sanborn fire insurance maps from the UK.
Any large scale map of that area in the 1960s would be welcome, or suggestions for access. I need streets, tracks and businesses shown with measurements if possible.

I would of course be happy to meet appropriate expenses incurred by anyone willing to assist me in this project.

Thanks again.

Sandy Smart

On 20 May 2022, at 21:58, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Mike Condron’s site is great but you already got that. I don’t know if Steve Forrest is on this group but he’d be another good source. He shot a lot of slide in that area a little later than your era but he’d know the area.

Also, please do not confuse Donnie Dixon’s site and SRHA Archives as the same material. Donnie got his collection from his own sources and not from the archives. His scans are is own work.

I look forward to seeing what you do with the layout. I grew up visiting my dad in Memphis in the 90s and early 2000s.

Jason Greene

On May 20, 2022, at 4:24 PM, Alexander Smart <agfsmart@...> wrote:

Hello

I am a SRHA member in Oban, Scotland, UK.

I would like to find more information about the Southern freight operations around City Yard Memphis, Tennessee in the 1960s. This was inspired by Zone B of a Southern Railway Track Map and Terminal Survey, Memphis TN, May 1980, which I found on a Donnie Dixon link from the SRHA.

I realise that Southern wasn’t a major player in the Memphis area, but it will allow me me interchange and transfer runs with, the IC, L&N, Frisco, Cotton Belt etc with appropriate locos and cars.

I have been constructing a small switching layout in HO based on the above, but would like to rebuild it into a larger, more accurate layout with the correct track plan, correct industries, accurate locos and rolling stock.
So far I have Memphis Furniture Mfg.Co.,Central Chemical, McDowell Industries Inc(Semmes Bag Co.), a team track and possibly Parts Inc. Getting photos of these industries has been almost impossible so far, even on the Internet.
This is the area along the Southern branch up from Forrest Yard, from Sledge St. to Linden Street.

However I need more information especially 1960s era photos of the exact area with industries, length of spurs, trackage etc.
In addition I would welcome details of switching moves, transfer runs to other yards, locos used and rosters etc.
Did Southern allow other roads to make transfer runs to City Yard or just to Forrest Yard?
I would love to justify visits from other roads’ locos to my yard.

I have been using Mike Condren’s Memphis Railroad Pages as a good source of maps and photos but have now exhausted this source.

If any members live in the Memphis area or have a knowledge of the above, I would welcome any information or suggestions.

Apologies for such a long post!

Kind regards

Sandy Smart
#9023








locked Re: Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s

Jason Greene
 

Mike Condron’s site is great but you already got that. I don’t know if Steve Forrest is on this group but he’d be another good source. He shot a lot of slide in that area a little later than your era but he’d know the area.

Also, please do not confuse Donnie Dixon’s site and SRHA Archives as the same material. Donnie got his collection from his own sources and not from the archives. His scans are is own work.

I look forward to seeing what you do with the layout. I grew up visiting my dad in Memphis in the 90s and early 2000s.

Jason Greene

On May 20, 2022, at 4:24 PM, Alexander Smart <agfsmart@...> wrote:

Hello

I am a SRHA member in Oban, Scotland, UK.

I would like to find more information about the Southern freight operations around City Yard Memphis, Tennessee in the 1960s. This was inspired by Zone B of a Southern Railway Track Map and Terminal Survey, Memphis TN, May 1980, which I found on a Donnie Dixon link from the SRHA.

I realise that Southern wasn’t a major player in the Memphis area, but it will allow me me interchange and transfer runs with, the IC, L&N, Frisco, Cotton Belt etc with appropriate locos and cars.

I have been constructing a small switching layout in HO based on the above, but would like to rebuild it into a larger, more accurate layout with the correct track plan, correct industries, accurate locos and rolling stock.
So far I have Memphis Furniture Mfg.Co.,Central Chemical, McDowell Industries Inc(Semmes Bag Co.), a team track and possibly Parts Inc. Getting photos of these industries has been almost impossible so far, even on the Internet.
This is the area along the Southern branch up from Forrest Yard, from Sledge St. to Linden Street.

However I need more information especially 1960s era photos of the exact area with industries, length of spurs, trackage etc.
In addition I would welcome details of switching moves, transfer runs to other yards, locos used and rosters etc.
Did Southern allow other roads to make transfer runs to City Yard or just to Forrest Yard?
I would love to justify visits from other roads’ locos to my yard.

I have been using Mike Condren’s Memphis Railroad Pages as a good source of maps and photos but have now exhausted this source.

If any members live in the Memphis area or have a knowledge of the above, I would welcome any information or suggestions.

Apologies for such a long post!

Kind regards

Sandy Smart
#9023





locked Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s

Alexander Smart
 

Hello

I am a SRHA member in Oban, Scotland, UK.

I would like to find more information about the Southern freight operations around City Yard Memphis, Tennessee in the 1960s. This was inspired by Zone B of a Southern Railway Track Map and Terminal Survey, Memphis TN, May 1980, which I found on a Donnie Dixon link from the SRHA.

I realise that Southern wasn’t a major player in the Memphis area, but it will allow me me interchange and transfer runs with, the IC, L&N, Frisco, Cotton Belt etc with appropriate locos and cars.

I have been constructing a small switching layout in HO based on the above, but would like to rebuild it into a larger, more accurate layout with the correct track plan, correct industries, accurate locos and rolling stock.
So far I have Memphis Furniture Mfg.Co.,Central Chemical, McDowell Industries Inc(Semmes Bag Co.), a team track and possibly Parts Inc. Getting photos of these industries has been almost impossible so far, even on the Internet.
This is the area along the Southern branch up from Forrest Yard, from Sledge St. to Linden Street.

However I need more information especially 1960s era photos of the exact area with industries, length of spurs, trackage etc.
In addition I would welcome details of switching moves, transfer runs to other yards, locos used and rosters etc.
Did Southern allow other roads to make transfer runs to City Yard or just to Forrest Yard?
I would love to justify visits from other roads’ locos to my yard.

I have been using Mike Condren’s Memphis Railroad Pages as a good source of maps and photos but have now exhausted this source.

If any members live in the Memphis area or have a knowledge of the above, I would welcome any information or suggestions.

Apologies for such a long post!

Kind regards

Sandy Smart
#9023

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