Date   

locked Re: SRHA steam documentation

George Eichelberger
 

Or sold, there are multiple documents on both over the years in the archives.

Ike



On Jun 23, 2022, at 10:25 AM, Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:

Are those list of when locomotives were dismantled?


locked Re: SRHA steam documentation

Will Kesler
 

Are those list of when locomotives were dismantled?


locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] RE Prince book reprints

Michael Roderick
 

Ike:

 

I would I like to help out on this project but like most of our members we away from Chattanooga. I plan on being in Chattanooga for the Convention in September. I live in Indiana which my help with trying to get some of the original stuff IU in Bloomington I do have friends that can help me from IU in getting some access to the files that they used. It maybe a starting point to work with.

 

Mike Roderick

Modeling the Murphy Branch

Of the Southern Railroad  

 

From: ModelingTheSouthern@SouthernRailway.groups.io <ModelingTheSouthern@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2022 18:13
To: ModelingTheSouthern@southernrailway.groups.io; main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] RE Prince book reprints

 

Any takers?

 

Ike

 

 

On Jun 18, 2022, at 7:57 PM, George Eichelberger <GEICHELBERGER@...> wrote:

 

Jack:

 

If someone (several people?) want to take on the project, I think it’d be an excellent idea! Some things to consider….

 

The book was written in pre-word processing days so there is not a soft copy version of the text. I have not looked through the Prince materials file cabinet in a long time but I recall there are quite a few of the text and diagram sections in their offset printing form. (Looks like black letters on a transparent background, almost like a negative that was “burned” on a photo sensitive printing plate using a very bright (carbon arc?) light. Those could be scanned and placed on a page as part of a PDF for printing. (Worked in a print shop some in the early 60s. Everything was done with offset printing or Linotype (hot metal). The pages of an existing book can be scanned, OCRd and set if desk top publishing software (I use Adobe Creative Suite @ $20/mo for a Macintosh.)

 

There may be photos of the diagram book pages but it would be easier to simply make new scans..I expect we have all of the diagram books he used..or close to it.

 

No one would make photos for publication by making plates by taking photos of photos through a fine screen as was done. I seem to remember the “resolution” of the screen used was about 150 lines per inch. (Photos for a newspaper were done at lower screen rates but I don’t remember the number…75?. The good news is that my estimate of 80-90% of the photos used are in Chattanooga. (Prince, like many authors of the period, simply borrowed photo prints, made the screen prints and returned the photos to their owners.) There are photis in the Prince files that were not returned, probably made from extra prints. We also have many of the same photos in the KImsey, Ben Roberts, Dale Roberts, and other collections.

 

Probably doable but needing people to do the work. SRHA has all of the technology needed plus a 142TB of network accessible memory that can be accessed by many people in a collaborative effort. (Not everyone would ever have to do to the archives and could work remotely.) Initial printing costs would have to come form donations, SRHA does not have a large “publications” budget but it could (?) be done.

 

Ike

 

 

On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:56 PM, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

 

Since the SRHA has the intellectual property rights, what about a revised Prince edition? I fear by the time a brand new Southern steam book is written, most potential readers will be gone. 

 

Jack Wyatt

 

On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 05:08:59 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

 

 

Let me add one more "thing".....

I expect SRHA now has the largest collection of Southern steam loco negatives and prints anywhere...ever. (Including maybe 80-90% of the photos used in both the Prince book and Southern Steam Power). Plus, we have accumulated many steam ("SL" prefix and earlier) drawings to add the the significant collection TVRM has.

If someone was serious (!!) about writing a book on Southern Steam, using mostly original negatives, come to one of the Archives work sessions and see what we have. (If not a work session, come to the joint SRHA/L&NHS/RPM at TVRM 9-30/10-1).

Ike

 

 


locked Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

Cohen Bob
 

Gordon and all:

The Prince books, all 10 or 11 of them covering the different railroads of the south that he documented are fantastic resources, even today, the SR included.

Maybe forgotten is that in the early 2000's, four of his titles were reprinted, Seaboard Air Line, Atlantic Coast Line, NC&St. L, and the L&N. The quality of the reprinted photos I am told made Prince livid and he forbid any others from being done, and yes, the reprinted photos were poor, but I also suspect that the available originals weren't that good either. At the time, the NC&St. L was THE most expensive one and by far, and seldom seen, maybe even less often actual sales taking place. It was a $350-$400 item.

Post reprinted, they all have settled down to around the $40-$60 plus or minus a little area. The other RR's still retain serious interest for the researcher, those of the N&W, RF&P, A&WP, New Georgia, Southern, and the original Norfolk Southern being the most elusive of the bunch. The N&W and RF&P seem to still garner somewhere in the $75-$100 region regularly, maybe a little more, the NS bringing $150 or so if and when you can find them. The Southern one seems to bring $50 plus or minus a little here and there and is among if not THE most popular of the bunch.

Without getting into copyright issues, should one wish to reprint the SR one, that is the marketplace you'll be competing into. I don't know how many original copies Prince made in his various printings of each of the above RR's but for the more popular titles I think it was plenty for the times. Today, my belief is there are sufficient quantity out there for current demand, my opinion, so into the hornet's nest, does one make the commitment of how many thousands of dollars up front money to sell ??????????????? how many of the reprint?

When the 4 reprinted titles were done nearly 20 years ago, as I recall, they were available at the time for $40 each.

What's the risk/reward ratio for a new reprint albeit one that wasn't done back then, and is there enough pent-up demand for another one? My opinion is probably not as the current supply out there fits most needs for the moment. How long that may continue is anyone's best guess, but my opinion is, likely not worth the investment at this time.

My 2 cents worth.

Bob Cohen


locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] RE Prince book reprints -takers??

milepost 131
 

I suspect the question as to "takers" was meant to be anyone interested in helping re-print..
but...
IF it is re-printed how many will be sold and at what price? (baed  on the "takers" who affect supply and demand)

I have both of the orginals -  one bought in the 1960's.. The prices I paid "back then" are sometimes more than on Ebay these days.
I wrongly thought my sons might see some appreciation in their value. <G> 
I do watch Ebay  and see the occasional copy put up.

 There doesn't seem to be a huge demand and bidding is not "wild and crazy" .. so...
(Not even sure what a realistic number of anyone seriously interest in Southern steam is these days.)

So as a suggestion which you can ignore or not even reply to ...

An idea might be to see what a re-print or re-write new print would cost and then see whether there is a demand.

When I "run out steam" there will be one fewer folks interest in Southern steam ... especially old enough to have lived in that period of history.


Gordon Andrews


locked SRHA steam documentation

George Eichelberger
 

Example No 2, also from (full!) binder 109.

Ike


locked SRHA steam documentation

George Eichelberger
 

All:

Three examples of the Southern steam material in the SRHA archives….from Marvin Black binder #109.

Ike









locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] RE Prince book reprints

C J Wyatt
 

Ike, like Kyle, I have some projects I need to take care of before making a commitment.

The first task, I think, would be to assess the situation with the photographs. I don't see this as being a detail book like the Ties articles were. There will be room for that in later books. The information about locomotive classes could be enhanced a bit and perhaps be better organized. Some Prince books have information about the facilities devoted to steam, but that is pretty much absent from the current Southern book. It might be good for the new edition. I also would like to see the line history part enhanced some with more details about situations such as the formation and demise of the Queen & Crescent. Maybe we need to get the interested people together and decide what needs to be done and then divide up the tasks. 

Just a few quick thoughts.

Jack

On Monday, June 20, 2022, 06:13:15 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Any takers?

Ike


On Jun 18, 2022, at 7:57 PM, George Eichelberger <GEICHELBERGER@...> wrote:

Jack:

If someone (several people?) want to take on the project, I think it’d be an excellent idea! Some things to consider….

The book was written in pre-word processing days so there is not a soft copy version of the text. I have not looked through the Prince materials file cabinet in a long time but I recall there are quite a few of the text and diagram sections in their offset printing form. (Looks like black letters on a transparent background, almost like a negative that was “burned” on a photo sensitive printing plate using a very bright (carbon arc?) light. Those could be scanned and placed on a page as part of a PDF for printing. (Worked in a print shop some in the early 60s. Everything was done with offset printing or Linotype (hot metal). The pages of an existing book can be scanned, OCRd and set if desk top publishing software (I use Adobe Creative Suite @ $20/mo for a Macintosh.)

There may be photos of the diagram book pages but it would be easier to simply make new scans..I expect we have all of the diagram books he used..or close to it.

No one would make photos for publication by making plates by taking photos of photos through a fine screen as was done. I seem to remember the “resolution” of the screen used was about 150 lines per inch. (Photos for a newspaper were done at lower screen rates but I don’t remember the number…75?. The good news is that my estimate of 80-90% of the photos used are in Chattanooga. (Prince, like many authors of the period, simply borrowed photo prints, made the screen prints and returned the photos to their owners.) There are photis in the Prince files that were not returned, probably made from extra prints. We also have many of the same photos in the KImsey, Ben Roberts, Dale Roberts, and other collections.

Probably doable but needing people to do the work. SRHA has all of the technology needed plus a 142TB of network accessible memory that can be accessed by many people in a collaborative effort. (Not everyone would ever have to do to the archives and could work remotely.) Initial printing costs would have to come form donations, SRHA does not have a large “publications” budget but it could (?) be done.

Ike


On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:56 PM, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

Since the SRHA has the intellectual property rights, what about a revised Prince edition? I fear by the time a brand new Southern steam book is written, most potential readers will be gone. 

Jack Wyatt

On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 05:08:59 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Let me add one more "thing".....

I expect SRHA now has the largest collection of Southern steam loco negatives and prints anywhere...ever. (Including maybe 80-90% of the photos used in both the Prince book and Southern Steam Power). Plus, we have accumulated many steam ("SL" prefix and earlier) drawings to add the the significant collection TVRM has.

If someone was serious (!!) about writing a book on Southern Steam, using mostly original negatives, come to one of the Archives work sessions and see what we have. (If not a work session, come to the joint SRHA/L&NHS/RPM at TVRM 9-30/10-1).

Ike



locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] RE Prince book reprints

Kyle Shannon
 

I’d personally love to in the future, Ike, just have to finish up a project or two first.

Kyle




On Monday, June 20, 2022, 6:13 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Any takers?

Ike


On Jun 18, 2022, at 7:57 PM, George Eichelberger <GEICHELBERGER@...> wrote:

Jack:

If someone (several people?) want to take on the project, I think it’d be an excellent idea! Some things to consider….

The book was written in pre-word processing days so there is not a soft copy version of the text. I have not looked through the Prince materials file cabinet in a long time but I recall there are quite a few of the text and diagram sections in their offset printing form. (Looks like black letters on a transparent background, almost like a negative that was “burned” on a photo sensitive printing plate using a very bright (carbon arc?) light. Those could be scanned and placed on a page as part of a PDF for printing. (Worked in a print shop some in the early 60s. Everything was done with offset printing or Linotype (hot metal). The pages of an existing book can be scanned, OCRd and set if desk top publishing software (I use Adobe Creative Suite @ $20/mo for a Macintosh.)

There may be photos of the diagram book pages but it would be easier to simply make new scans..I expect we have all of the diagram books he used..or close to it.

No one would make photos for publication by making plates by taking photos of photos through a fine screen as was done. I seem to remember the “resolution” of the screen used was about 150 lines per inch. (Photos for a newspaper were done at lower screen rates but I don’t remember the number…75?. The good news is that my estimate of 80-90% of the photos used are in Chattanooga. (Prince, like many authors of the period, simply borrowed photo prints, made the screen prints and returned the photos to their owners.) There are photis in the Prince files that were not returned, probably made from extra prints. We also have many of the same photos in the KImsey, Ben Roberts, Dale Roberts, and other collections.

Probably doable but needing people to do the work. SRHA has all of the technology needed plus a 142TB of network accessible memory that can be accessed by many people in a collaborative effort. (Not everyone would ever have to do to the archives and could work remotely.) Initial printing costs would have to come form donations, SRHA does not have a large “publications” budget but it could (?) be done.

Ike


On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:56 PM, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

Since the SRHA has the intellectual property rights, what about a revised Prince edition? I fear by the time a brand new Southern steam book is written, most potential readers will be gone. 

Jack Wyatt

On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 05:08:59 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Let me add one more "thing".....

I expect SRHA now has the largest collection of Southern steam loco negatives and prints anywhere...ever. (Including maybe 80-90% of the photos used in both the Prince book and Southern Steam Power). Plus, we have accumulated many steam ("SL" prefix and earlier) drawings to add the the significant collection TVRM has.

If someone was serious (!!) about writing a book on Southern Steam, using mostly original negatives, come to one of the Archives work sessions and see what we have. (If not a work session, come to the joint SRHA/L&NHS/RPM at TVRM 9-30/10-1).

Ike



locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] RE Prince book reprints

George Eichelberger
 

Any takers?

Ike


On Jun 18, 2022, at 7:57 PM, George Eichelberger <GEICHELBERGER@...> wrote:

Jack:

If someone (several people?) want to take on the project, I think it’d be an excellent idea! Some things to consider….

The book was written in pre-word processing days so there is not a soft copy version of the text. I have not looked through the Prince materials file cabinet in a long time but I recall there are quite a few of the text and diagram sections in their offset printing form. (Looks like black letters on a transparent background, almost like a negative that was “burned” on a photo sensitive printing plate using a very bright (carbon arc?) light. Those could be scanned and placed on a page as part of a PDF for printing. (Worked in a print shop some in the early 60s. Everything was done with offset printing or Linotype (hot metal). The pages of an existing book can be scanned, OCRd and set if desk top publishing software (I use Adobe Creative Suite @ $20/mo for a Macintosh.)

There may be photos of the diagram book pages but it would be easier to simply make new scans..I expect we have all of the diagram books he used..or close to it.

No one would make photos for publication by making plates by taking photos of photos through a fine screen as was done. I seem to remember the “resolution” of the screen used was about 150 lines per inch. (Photos for a newspaper were done at lower screen rates but I don’t remember the number…75?. The good news is that my estimate of 80-90% of the photos used are in Chattanooga. (Prince, like many authors of the period, simply borrowed photo prints, made the screen prints and returned the photos to their owners.) There are photis in the Prince files that were not returned, probably made from extra prints. We also have many of the same photos in the KImsey, Ben Roberts, Dale Roberts, and other collections.

Probably doable but needing people to do the work. SRHA has all of the technology needed plus a 142TB of network accessible memory that can be accessed by many people in a collaborative effort. (Not everyone would ever have to do to the archives and could work remotely.) Initial printing costs would have to come form donations, SRHA does not have a large “publications” budget but it could (?) be done.

Ike


On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:56 PM, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

Since the SRHA has the intellectual property rights, what about a revised Prince edition? I fear by the time a brand new Southern steam book is written, most potential readers will be gone. 

Jack Wyatt

On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 05:08:59 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Let me add one more "thing".....

I expect SRHA now has the largest collection of Southern steam loco negatives and prints anywhere...ever. (Including maybe 80-90% of the photos used in both the Prince book and Southern Steam Power). Plus, we have accumulated many steam ("SL" prefix and earlier) drawings to add the the significant collection TVRM has.

If someone was serious (!!) about writing a book on Southern Steam, using mostly original negatives, come to one of the Archives work sessions and see what we have. (If not a work session, come to the joint SRHA/L&NHS/RPM at TVRM 9-30/10-1).

Ike



locked Southern Railway Spencer Ms-4’s

Will Kesler
 

I’m looking for pictures in either good detail or in color of Spencer Shops’s or just that specific looks Spencer had for its Ms-4’s. I am reskinning and kitbashing a locomotive in a game called Trainz from a Ps-4 to resemble an Ms-4. Since I think Spencer’s variation of the Ms-4’s looked the best any photos that could show me more detail rather than the pixilated ones I’ve seen would be nice. Here is a look at the Ms-4 in game.


locked Southern Railway Spencer Ms-4’s

Will Kesler
 

I’m looking for pictures in either good detail or in color of Spencer Shops’s or just that specific looks Spencer had for its Ms-4’s. I am reskinning and kitbashing a locomotive in a game called Trainz from a Ps-4 to resemble an Ms-4. Since I think Spencer’s variation of the Ms-4’s looked the best any photos that could show me more detail rather than the pixilated ones I’ve seen would be nice. Here is a look at the Ms-4 in game.


locked LNHS/SRHA/TVRM Convention and RPM

Carl Ardrey
 

Convention information including online registration and proposed schedule is available at www.srha.net.  
CEA


locked Re: Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Barry Kimble
 

Will,

You’re looking at two different series…
Southern Railway in color Vol 2
Southern Railway Power in color Vol 2

Thanks,
Barry


On Jun 15, 2022, at 10:28 PM, Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:

Something I have noticed is that there seems to be multiple Southern Railway In Color books by different people. One Volume 2 book is by one author, and another volume two is by a different author. The one with Ps-4 1380 seems to be more of one I’d want due to it having what appears to be pictures from different locations on the pages, as they include Spencer North Carolina.  4984DC18-90C5-4E9F-A729-F4954E1BEB16.jpeg3FC4358F-D709-4799-BC44-D2D388BB1BE8.jpeg


locked Re: Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Will Kesler
 

Something I have noticed is that there seems to be multiple Southern Railway In Color books by different people. One Volume 2 book is by one author, and another volume two is by a different author. The one with Ps-4 1380 seems to be more of one I’d want due to it having what appears to be pictures from different locations on the pages, as they include Spencer North Carolina. 


locked Re: Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Will Kesler
 

Barry, yes I actually have volume 1. I was considering getting volume 2 but I didn’t know if I should get that over Classic Steam Trains in the South by Curt Tillotson Jr. I think I will get the classic steam trains because it focuses on N&W SOU L&N and some more, it does look like it contains some color shots of engines as there are two color shots of Ms-4’s. Thanks for your help though.


locked Re: Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Barry Kimble
 

Will,
Welcome to the group…
Have you seen the Southern Railway “in color” series of books published by Morning Sun?
Vol 1 and 2 both had some color steam in them.
Hopes this helps, Barry 

On Jun 15, 2022, at 6:59 PM, Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

Frank, that’s alright. Do you happen to know of any other place where I could find Vintage Color Shots of southern railway steam?


locked Re: Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Will Kesler
 
Edited

Frank, that’s alright. Do you happen to know of any other place where I could find Vintage Color Shots of southern railway steam?


locked Re: Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Carl Ardrey
 

Will:
Welcome to SRHA.  We would love to have some of the archive materials available digitally, but that's down the road a bit for now. We are working to that end.
CEA

On 06/15/2022 1:33 PM Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:


Another thing I would like too add, since I’m a new member and I clearly don’t know my way around here could anyone tell me what you mainly do here? Another question I have is that are the archives present on the SRSA site including photographs and stuff or is that all located at the SRSA headquarters in Chattanooga. Keep in mind I’m new so excuse me if I’m incorrect about some things. 


locked Re: Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Will Kesler
 

Another thing I would like too add, since I’m a new member and I clearly don’t know my way around here could anyone tell me what you mainly do here? Another question I have is that are the archives present on the SRSA site including photographs and stuff or is that all located at the SRSA headquarters in Chattanooga. Keep in mind I’m new so excuse me if I’m incorrect about some things. 

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