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locked "Outside Swing Hanger Six Wheel Trucks"

George Eichelberger
 

I’ve mentioned them enough, here a photo of the first of the two Outside Swing Hanger Six Wheel Trucks TVRM acquired to put under Southern Office Car 21. 
They are the same style that Southern used when it replaced the original Pullman, “Point Richmond”, trucks in the 60s. (I understand they were the last such pair built by General Steel Castings. The replacements that Southern put under OC-21 were sold by its previous owner after they bought NS-8 from Norfolk Southern. They are now under the business car the New Orleans Public Belt has for sale.)

With some luck, the car will be in service for the joint SRHA-L&NHS convention at TVRM 9-30/10-1.

Even with the roller bearing wheel sets, cash will help the project “move along”. I’m sure a donation from anyone to TVRM interesting preserving, operating (and riding in!) a Southern Railway “official car” would be appreciated and put to good use.

Ike



locked Re: Southern Railway Bells

George Eichelberger
 

Will:

As you may be aware, TVRM is celebrating its 60th anniversary this year. In my opinion (I’m not an officer, only a member, certainly not speaking for the museum) it is the finest operating railroad museum in the Southeast. Three years ago, an eight year old, 9,000 sq. ft. building just across Turntable Road from the Grand Junction property came available, TVRM with help from SRHA members, acquired it as an archives facility and TVRM support building. (I’ve attached a photo). Recently, the Louisville & Nashville Historical Society upgraded another part of the facility and moved their archives from Bolling Green, KY. The L&NHS archives will be dedicated during the SRHA-L&NHS joint convention 9-30/10-1.

Early last year another (approx 10,000 sq. ft.) building came on the market, also adjacent to the TVRM Grand Junction property. Again, with help from SRHA, members, TVRM purchased it. It contains first class offices, conference room, a kitchen and a (est.) 5,000 sq. ft. exhibit area, all with modern lighting and HVAC equipment.

That building will, for the first time in 60 years, provide TVRM with a permanent indoor, all year, railroad museum. The building will be doubled in size and a two track train shed will provide cover for multiple pieces of TVRM locomotives and rolling stock.

As must be obvious, this will be an expensive multi year project. I have no doubt TVRM will accept ideas and assistance of any kind. Many of the joint convention clinics and RPM display area will be in the exhibit building with activities also at the archives, headquarters and Grand Junction depot (not to mention the Shop at East Chattanooga and TVRM trains)!

Join us at the convention, 10-30/11-1, any SRHA archives work session or whenever you can get to Chattanooga.

Ike





On Jun 26, 2022, at 7:28 PM, Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:

Could you tell me more about this exhibit and what’s it meant for?


locked Re: Southern Railway Bells

Will Kesler
 

Could you tell me more about this exhibit and what’s it meant for?


locked Re: Southern Railway Bells

George Eichelberger
 

If anyone has Southern items, such as bells, whistles, headlights station signs, etc., you might consider donating them to SRHA or TVRM to be used in the TVRM Exhibit building displays.  

At present, planning is mostly for the “brick and mortar” additions planned for the complex in addition to the existing 10,000 sq ft building. Those include an extension to the exhibit building, a new restroom “pod”, rolling stock display shed and turntable. (A roundhouse will follow.)

Individual inside and outside displays will be dedicated to the railroads of the Tennessee Valley, Pullman, express, mail and dining car services, car, diesel and steam loco components and models in several scales showing the development of rolling stock over the years. A feature will be Gen. J.D. Smith’s custom made, full HO size, Cumberland River bridge, approximately twelve feet from end to end. The bridge “kit” was constructed using Southern Railway plans provided to General Smith by Graham Claytor when they were both at the Pentagon.

If anyone would like to donate or assist, contact archives@... and we’ll make sure your information is forwarded.

Ike




On Jun 26, 2022, at 4:01 PM, Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:

Thank you for clarifying. There’s actually a bell at a school near me from a Southern Ks-1 #755 and there’s a house I’ve seen around with a southern bell mounted just in plain site. Hope it doesn’t get stolen but they weren’t selling as I remember.


locked Re: 3d Kitbashing Showcasing

Will Kesler
 

In the game Kitbashing is using different model parts to make an engine basically exactly like how you with a real model.


locked Re: 3d Kitbashing Showcasing

Will Kesler
 

No that’s not what I meant I’m not doing anything illegal. I just wanted to know if I could show pictures of stuff I’ve worked on in a game called Trainz that involves southern engines. But I should probably do that in the modeling group. 


locked Re: 3d Kitbashing Showcasing

milepost 131
 

Kit-bashing is when some BUYS several models and uses those parts he/she bought to build something else for THEIR private use.
To "borrow code" to build a new set of code without giving credit plus trying to resell would be piracy and stealing intellectual property (unless it is not shared in any manner for others to utilize.
Example: if someone were to take someone else's sound file (without permission or credit) modify it  and try to resell it as a new product.
As for kit-bashing ... I learned from a pack of rivet counters who never even shared parts with each other.

As an attorney taught when I was about twelve years old, "If you are not sure whether you should do something; don't do it."




Gordon Andrews   
 On 6/26/2022 4:05 PM, Will Kesler wrote:

Am I allowed to showcase some of the Southern things I’ve been working on in a 3d game called Trainz? I don’t know if the term Kitbashing is also used in actual modeling but I think it might be, it’s also used for this game when you take parts from other engines and change them around to basically online model your desired engine. Just making sure if I can show that here.


-- 
You can't debate with someone who isn't even listening to your point.


locked Re: 3d Kitbashing Showcasing

Will Kesler
 

Actually now that I think about it this should probably go into the modeling group as it is a form of modeling.  


locked 3d Kitbashing Showcasing

Will Kesler
 

Am I allowed to showcase some of the Southern things I’ve been working on in a 3d game called Trainz? I don’t know if the term Kitbashing is also used in actual modeling but I think it might be, it’s also used for this game when you take parts from other engines and change them around to basically online model your desired engine. Just making sure if I can show that here.


locked Re: Southern Railway Bells

Will Kesler
 

Thank you for clarifying. There’s actually a bell at a school near me from a Southern Ks-1 #755 and there’s a house I’ve seen around with a southern bell mounted just in plain site. Hope it doesn’t get stolen but they weren’t selling as I remember.


locked Re: Southern Railway Bells

George Eichelberger
 

We call it the "bell box” as a place to keep everything on the subject together, the Southern did not use the term. It most certainly does not represent EVERY Southern steam locomotive bell, probably only the requests that went to headquarters in Washington, but it’s a clue that could lead to some number of churches or other buildings where they are now. Note that the bells do not (at least typically) have a locomotive number stamped or engraved on them. I expect it is not possible to know which engine a particular bell came from.

Carl Ardrey has looked through the box more than I, maybe he can estimate how many the file covers?

Ike

PS Like most everything else in the archives (documents, drawings and photos surely number in the hundreds of thousands) we need help sorting cataloging and scanning to allow items to be located and used. In addition to the 3rd and 4th Friday and Saturday of each month work session, the archives will be open at various times during the SRHA-L&NHS joint convention and RPM meet 9-30/10-1.



On Jun 26, 2022, at 3:02 PM, Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:

Are you serious that’s awesome, I didn’t know they had a bell box??? I wouldn’t even expect something like that too exist. Since I live in North Carolina, I think I wouldn’t be able to get up there soon. Is the bell box able to be photographed so I can see what’s on there or is it mixed up with letters?


locked Re: Southern Railway Bells

Carl Ardrey
 

The "bell box" is a Gaylord archive box containing all the correspondence between the various organizations requesting bells and the Southern.  It does not document the locomotive the bells came from.
CEA

On 06/26/2022 2:02 PM Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:


Are you serious that’s awesome, I didn’t know they had a bell box??? I wouldn’t even expect something like that too exist. Since I live in North Carolina, I think I wouldn’t be able to get up there soon. Is the bell box able to be photographed so I can see what’s on there or is it mixed up with letters?


locked Re: History Book?

C J Wyatt
 

I think a biography of Samuel Spencer would be an interesting book / history PhD dissertation.

Jack Wyatt

On Sunday, June 26, 2022 at 12:38:20 PM EDT, aramsay18 <aramsay37@...> wrote:


....

I'm seeking material detailing how J. P. Morgan established the SRW as a corporate entity working with Samuel Spencer in 1893 and 1894.  (Very unfortunately for the Southern and the US railroad industry in general, Spencer was killed in a train accident in Nov. 1906.)

Best Regards from Berryville Virginia

Andy Ramsay



locked Re: Southern Railway Bells

Will Kesler
 

Are you serious that’s awesome, I didn’t know they had a bell box??? I wouldn’t even expect something like that too exist. Since I live in North Carolina, I think I wouldn’t be able to get up there soon. Is the bell box able to be photographed so I can see what’s on there or is it mixed up with letters?


locked Re: History Book?

aramsay18
 

Hello Clark and others

Here's a good starting point for Harrison's history. He starts with the Southern's predecessors such as the Richmond & Danville, beginning at the time of the Civil War.

This volume covers SRW history from 1827 to 1899. As noted, there are a number of additional volumes and supplements.

Very interesting.  This is only a good starting point, there is a lot to the history of the SRW.

In particular as to the R&D Harrison's Part II, Chapters 1 and 2, and Part III, Chapters 1, 2, and 3 define how the core of what would in 1894 become the SRW was formed.

It was the R&D that laid the groundwork.

Some volumes are available on Amazon (for IMO exorbitant prices) but you probably can do better with ABE books etc. if you want hardcopies.

This volume is available as a free download of a PDF of this 1523 page book. Or it can be read online for free.


Good luck with your search, let's keep in touch to compare notes.

I'm seeking material detailing how J. P. Morgan established the SRW as a corporate entity working with Samuel Spencer in 1893 and 1894.  (Very unfortunately for the Southern and the US railroad industry in general, Spencer was killed in a train accident in Nov. 1906.)

Best Regards from Berryville Virginia

Andy Ramsay


On Sat, Jun 25, 2022 at 9:21 AM David Carpenter via groups.io <dcarp=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
Clark,

Fairfax Harrison’s History of the Legal Development of the Southern Railway details the mergers, etc. SRHA found a number of them unbound and bound them 20-30 years ago along with the update (Vol 2) and maybe 3? Harrison was President of the Southern.

David

> On Jun 24, 2022, at 4:30 PM, Clark Barrow <clark.barrow@...> wrote:
>
> Hello, I am interested in reading about the history of Southern Railway. Can anyone suggest a book like this? I did an online service and it mostly brings up illustrated history books, but I am looking for the stories about the operations, management, mergers, etc. Something like a novel, but non-fiction of course. Thanks!
>
>
>
>







locked Re: Southern Railway Bells

George Eichelberger
 

You are welcome to go to the archives and look into the “Bells” box. It includes info of when and where bells were donated. I have always wondered if donated bells could be located and obtained?

Ike


On Jun 26, 2022, at 11:49 AM, Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:

As many of you probably already know this. Southern donated many many bells to people, churches, and schools and other places during the ending steam era and after that too. I know there are many left but I just can’t seem to find one for myself. I own a N&W K-2a 4-8-2 bell from #133. But finding a southern bell would be very nice and very special. I have seen two before at a school and a house in the area but neither are selling nor will they probably ever. Does anyone know where I could perhaps look?


locked Southern Railway Bells

Will Kesler
 

As many of you probably already know this. Southern donated many many bells to people, churches, and schools and other places during the ending steam era and after that too. I know there are many left but I just can’t seem to find one for myself. I own a N&W K-2a 4-8-2 bell from #133. But finding a southern bell would be very nice and very special. I have seen two before at a school and a house in the area but neither are selling nor will they probably ever. Does anyone know where I could perhaps look?


locked MCB Wood Standard

George Eichelberger
 

I just posted the following to the STMFC group..

Researching the wood needed to re-deck a 40’ flat car at TVRM, I located this drawing (Southern SF-4174) in the SRHA digital files. As it shows MCB dimensions, the drawing would apply to many railroads. Note how many types of Southern cars are shown.

Note the “V” groove in the 6” siding stock, purely ornamental?

Ike

PS The joint SRHA-L&NHS-RPM meet will be at TVRM Sept 30/Oct 1st in the new Exhibit building. The model railroad layout in the Headquarters building and the SRHA and L&NHS archives will be open at various times Thursday-Sunday. Info as it is available on the SRHA, TVRM and L&NHS web sites.


locked Re: History Book?

David Carpenter
 

Clark,

Fairfax Harrison’s History of the Legal Development of the Southern Railway details the mergers, etc. SRHA found a number of them unbound and bound them 20-30 years ago along with the update (Vol 2) and maybe 3? Harrison was President of the Southern.

David

On Jun 24, 2022, at 4:30 PM, Clark Barrow <clark.barrow@...> wrote:

Hello, I am interested in reading about the history of Southern Railway. Can anyone suggest a book like this? I did an online service and it mostly brings up illustrated history books, but I am looking for the stories about the operations, management, mergers, etc. Something like a novel, but non-fiction of course. Thanks!




locked Re: Two projects" A Southern Steam Book and an archives reading room

David Eisman
 

With the L&N HS and the SR HS collections so close together it would be interesting to produce a book comparing the 2 Railroads.  This book could examine not just the equipment but also the different philosophies and leadership personalities that guided these 2 companies that competed so much for the same customers.

Any interest?
David Eisman


On Jun 23, 2022, at 10:08 PM, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:


Dave, good analysis.

I don't mean to nitpick, but I believe the last new steam locomotives on the Southern were the Class Ls-2 type 2-8-8-2's, nos. 4051-4058 instead of Ps-4 No. 1409. Though they all were built in 1928, the Baldwin construction numbers suggest that the articulated engines were last.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, June 23, 2022, 09:40:02 PM EDT, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

I agree with Ike that a new Southern steam book could be a significant improvement over the Prince book, and not just in terms of photographic quality, although that in itself would be a plus. Several points come to mind:

(1) History of Development:

The Prince book has about a page of text for each major wheel arrangement. While better than nothing, this does not convey the history of development of steam on the Southern, for instance, why A series 0-6-0s evolved but then gave way to USRA 0-8-0s, why one builder got the bid over another, or what improvements were made over time within particular classes. There is also an economic angle to this story, since Southern did not purchase any new steam after the last Ps-4 in the late 20s, and avoided the Superpower revolution entirely....

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