Date   
moderated Re: Need SR Freight Car data from 1937 and 1940 ORER

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks big D


On Jun 15, 2019, at 7:37 PM, charliecatsrr via Groups.Io <charliecatsrr@...> wrote:

Try No 2


On Thursday, June 13, 2019, 10:43:50 PM EDT, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:


Fenton,

I uploaded files to the resin car list files section for ORERs from years 1930, 35, 45, 50, and 55.  The total size was close to 20MB (some are larger than others).

If anyone else needs these, let me know and I'll upload them here (for a short while since they take up too much space to leave them).

Dave

Thursday, June 13, 2019, 11:39:31 AM, you wrote:


If anybody has copies of these 1937 and 1940 ORER for SR Freight, could you please scan and send them to me.  Thanking all in advance
Fenton



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
<ORER 1937 003.jpg>

moderated Re: Southern and Southwestern Railway Club

George Eichelberger
 

Charles:

Can you give me an approximate date the unit was in Atlanta? That would narrow the number of Presidents files to look for this weekend.

If the loco got from Ingalls in Pascagola to Atlanta on the L&N (logical) the chances of finding something on it in the records are small unless they tried to sell the model to the Southern. Marvin Black accumulated a lot of builders sales info…another place to look.

Ike


Did the newspaper article specifically say which depot, Terminal or Union station?  

On Jun 16, 2019, at 4:41 PM, Charles Harris <railroads@...> wrote:

Hi George

Thanks for your response.  As much as I would like to make it to the work session, I cannot, live in New Zealand!
If you happen to come across any reference to the Ingalls that would be great.  The only ref to Southern I have is the newspaper article, other comments online say it was 'demonstrated' to Southern, but the exhibition may be what they were referring to.
Thanks

Charlie Harris

moderated Re: Need SR Freight Car data from 1937 and 1940 ORER

charliecatsrr
 

Fenton,
With my kids & grandkids celebrating father’s day, I was not able to send you the files I had promised.  I’ll send them tomorrow.  
J. C. 

On Sunday, June 16, 2019, 5:54:01 PM EDT, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


Thanks big D


On Jun 15, 2019, at 7:37 PM, charliecatsrr via Groups.Io <charliecatsrr@...> wrote:

Try No 2


On Thursday, June 13, 2019, 10:43:50 PM EDT, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:


Fenton,

I uploaded files to the resin car list files section for ORERs from years 1930, 35, 45, 50, and 55.  The total size was close to 20MB (some are larger than others).

If anyone else needs these, let me know and I'll upload them here (for a short while since they take up too much space to leave them).

Dave

Thursday, June 13, 2019, 11:39:31 AM, you wrote:


If anybody has copies of these 1937 and 1940 ORER for SR Freight, could you please scan and send them to me.  Thanking all in advance
Fenton



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
<ORER 1937 003.jpg>

moderated Re: Need SR Freight Car data from 1937 and 1940 ORER

O Fenton Wells
 

JC, totally understand take your time and enjoy your day.  When you get to it
Happy Fathers Day
Fenton

On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 7:14 PM charliecatsrr via Groups.Io <charliecatsrr=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Fenton,
With my kids & grandkids celebrating father’s day, I was not able to send you the files I had promised.  I’ll send them tomorrow.  
J. C. 

On Sunday, June 16, 2019, 5:54:01 PM EDT, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


Thanks big D


On Jun 15, 2019, at 7:37 PM, charliecatsrr via Groups.Io <charliecatsrr@...> wrote:

Try No 2


On Thursday, June 13, 2019, 10:43:50 PM EDT, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:


Fenton,

I uploaded files to the resin car list files section for ORERs from years 1930, 35, 45, 50, and 55.  The total size was close to 20MB (some are larger than others).

If anyone else needs these, let me know and I'll upload them here (for a short while since they take up too much space to leave them).

Dave

Thursday, June 13, 2019, 11:39:31 AM, you wrote:


If anybody has copies of these 1937 and 1940 ORER for SR Freight, could you please scan and send them to me.  Thanking all in advance
Fenton



--
David Bott

Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
<ORER 1937 003.jpg>



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

moderated Re: Southern and Southwestern Railway Club

Charles Harris
 

Hi
on
The article says at  :   between 2pm and 5pm    on   Track 13 at the  Terminal Station.

Date of display was       Thursday March 21  1946

No need to spend your time on this as you have heaps to do.

Thankyou

Charles Harris

moderated Archives Work Session This Weekend

Jim Thurston
 

Just a reminder that there will be an Archives Work Session this weekend, Fri & Sat, 21-22 June

Jim Thurston

moderated Saluda grade timing circuits

pschmidt3013@...
 

I'm looking for assistance and information on the Saluda grade timing circuit -- specifically imI searching for technical information that I'm hoping to develop into an article for "Ties," the SRHA magazine. 

I'm a signal technician for a major Class 1, so signalese is no problem for me to understand. Anyone with track charts, photos, old plans of the signalling system at Pearson's Gate, people I could interview, etc., would be of great help.

Thanks, and keep that green light shining!
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA

moderated Archives Work

mike turner
 

Jim, Ike,

Given no objections, I plan on being at the archives Thu AM.

The hunt for the other 100t aggregate hopper NCP folders is my primary goal. If the hunt is unsuccessful on Thu, it will be extended to Fri.

Mike Turner

MP-Z35

moderated Re: Archives Work

George Eichelberger
 

I should be there by 9:45. C U then…

Ike

On Jun 19, 2019, at 2:17 PM, mike turner <michaellturner@...> wrote:

Jim, Ike,

Given no objections, I plan on being at the archives Thu AM.

The hunt for the other 100t aggregate hopper NCP folders is my primary goal. If the hunt is unsuccessful on Thu, it will be extended to Fri.

Mike Turner

MP-Z35

moderated Pulpwood loads

Jim King
 

Attached are 2 pix showing 1 of 6 wood racks that I’m trying to finish (built at Spencer 1951-52 from 40’ double sheathed wood boxes).  This is one of the last kits I produced before selling the HO line to Wright Trak 7 years ago.  In exchange for some S scale kits, Jim Schall, noted S scale modeler who’s also a graphic artist by trade, built 6 cars for me minus lettering.  He simulated bark remnants on the deck with tea leaves (really clever).  Since he built these for me, I’ve moved the modeling era back to 1957-62 so 3 or 4 of the cars will be repainted black from the current Southern Frt Car Red.  Roman lettering was applied to brown/red cars starting in late 1957 but, since wood racks were about as low on the priority list as a freight car could get, especially since they didn’t typically interchange, it was common to see black cars with Roman lettering into the early 70s when these cars started down the retirement path.

 

The load shown is made from Christmas tree (pine) clippings.  A lot of work and I’m not pleased with the dark core.  New pulpwood, whether pine or hardwood, should be more tan/yellowish, not light brown.  I like the real bark but what you see in the pic is an entire 5-ft Christmas tree and I simply don’t have enough material, time or interest to continue down this path.  Not only do I have 6 loads to build, I also need loose and stacked piles for the wood yard.  Also note that, after the yellow glue used to attach sticks together has dried overnight, there is considerable shrinkage (over 1/8”) and a thin stack tends to bow up.  This experiment will end up in the wood yard.

 

I’ve tried wood dowels and like that approach.  Razor-sawn sides create believable grooves, followed by reddish-brown stain (for pine), then cut to 4.5” lengths.  The saw cuts simulate a chain saw better than a NWSL Chopper on tree twigs and several dowels can be sawn into sections at a time.  I also like how the stain migrates only slightly into the dowel, thereby creating the illusion of bark with a tan core.  The problem I’m running into is finding suitable diameter dowels in bulk.  I need 1/16, 3/32 and 1/8” diameters to simulate 6-12” (ish).  Local craft stores only stock 1/16 and 3/16.  Home Depot has nothing smaller than 3/16.  Can someone recommend a source for these 3 sizes in bulk?  MicroMark sells 20-packs of 12” long pieces but I’m looking for longer pieces and in all 3 diameters.

 

Jim King

www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

 


--
Jim King
www.smokymountainmodelworks.com

moderated Southern Rwy. HW passenger car decals, Gothic (block), HO scale

C J Wyatt
 

Some of you may remember that a couple of decades ago I tried to produce a Southern Railway heavyweight baggage-express HO kit in resin, but did not complete the project. I had decals printed by Rail Graphics for the car in Southern's gothic (block style) with imitation gold color. These would be good from 1941 until Southern started using the metallic appearing Scotchcal in mid-1956. The decals are very good and accurate. I scanned Southern Rwy. drawings of the letters and figures  from the SRHA archives and traced over them with a CAD program to produce the artwork. Unfortunately I did not include items to make it a general purpose set, but it is good for baggage-express cars and also Southern Railway coaches if you can find a 3/4 in. decal stripe to be used on the bottom of the coach side, or paint and mask one yourself.

I've decided to sell off my stock of them. If anyone is interested, send me an email by hitting the 'reply to sender' button. Please be careful not to post to the group instead. Images are attached. My car side with the decals applied has suffered from being tossed in a box, but you can get the picture.

Jack Wyatt

moderated Southern Railway Contracts List V2

George Eichelberger
 

The project to scan all of the Southern contracts in the SRHA archives is moving along. There are still a few to be located and scanned but it will not be long before the effort become part of SRHA's permanent digital file. Last weekend's work session was well attended but we were so busy we did not resolve how we would make copies of various digital items available. We recognize that with SRHA and TVRM's $1M plus investment in the building and purchased collections, taking the time and effort to do the scans and then simply making them available at no cost is not sensible (although we would all prefer to do that).

Contact us at archives@... if you are interested in a particular contract. They can certainly be emailed if folks are willing to make a small donation. If anyone is serious about researching an article for TIES, we can help by making contracts on that topic available.

This is V2 of the list as of today, there will be additions and corrections as we work toward the final version. The next TIES will have an article on the contracts and a second article on Hampton, FL that illustrates how useful the contracts are when doing research.

Dates for the archives work sessions through the end of the year are on the SRHA web home page at www.srha.net.

Ike

moderated Re: Southern Railway Contracts List V2

A&Y Dave in MD
 

While it would require a further investment of volunteered skilled time on our website, the way N&WHS offers scans for sale in their Commissary seems a reasonable model. Most people researching today will pay the cost of production for access to historical data.  You could offer credits towards future scans to authors of articles in TIES to subsidize the proper use of the materials in support of SRHA’s mission.

My $0.02.

Dave


On Jun 27, 2019, at 8:58 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The project to scan all of the Southern contracts in the SRHA archives is moving along. There are still a few to be located and scanned but it will not be long before the effort become part of SRHA's permanent digital file. Last weekend's work session was well attended but we were so busy we did not resolve how we would make copies of various digital items available. We recognize that with SRHA and TVRM's $1M plus investment in the building and purchased collections, taking the time and effort to do the scans and then simply making them available at no cost is not sensible (although we would all prefer to do that).

Contact us at archives@... if you are interested in a particular contract. They can certainly be emailed if folks are willing to make a small donation. If anyone is serious about researching an article for TIES, we can help by making contracts on that topic available.

This is V2 of the list as of today, there will be additions and corrections as we work toward the final version. The next TIES will have an article on the contracts and a second article on Hampton, FL that illustrates how useful the contracts are when doing research.

Dates for the archives work sessions through the end of the year are on the SRHA web home page at www.srha.net.

Ike
<SRHA scanned contracts 6-27-2019.docx>

moderated Re: Southern Railway Contracts List V2

George Eichelberger
 

Dave:

(A quick comment about the N&WHS and SRHA: Both groups have a commitment to pass “home road” material back and forth no questions asked. No swaps or “prisoner exchanges” are needed. That is one reason we have always had the cooperation of NS when they have historical material. They don’t want to be in the middle of an argument between historical groups and just want to know items will find their proper home.)

I agree that the N&WHS is a good example. Our (everybody’s) concern is to avoid the ridiculous pricing we see from typical museums and archives. Particularly now that the technology had moved beyond “wet paper” photo prints, amounts such as $10 for an 8x10 print, then seeing numbers like $20 per print for publishing rights are absurd.

There is a flip side tho’. If we begin by saying everything is free, a few people will simply ask for everything to build their own “archives”. Your comment about credits is right on… Actually, I don’t think we have EVER charged anyone for anything. If someone comes to the archives to do some serious research…and we see they are serious, they usually leave with whatever they need. Some may make a small donation but we don’t make a  big deal about it.

Where donations, or payments, really are necessary is when people want to print or scan more than a few copies of a document or a photo. We’ve invested in some good quality scanners and printers that will not last forever and ink for the printers has to be paid for and replaced.

The hardest thing to explain is when people want us to spend a lot of time researching or scanning THEIR project. Aside from the fact that we need to give priority to research for TIES, then model manufacturers, then what our volunteers are interested in…..it’s difficult to do other projects. (Note “serious” kicks in again here, if someone is doing research for a PhD, a commercial magazine article and such, we’ll do whatever we can to help.)

That’s my $.05 on a really complex topic.

Ike


On Jun 27, 2019, at 10:24 AM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

While it would require a further investment of volunteered skilled time on our website, the way N&WHS offers scans for sale in their Commissary seems a reasonable model. Most people researching today will pay the cost of production for access to historical data.  You could offer credits towards future scans to authors of articles in TIES to subsidize the proper use of the materials in support of SRHA’s mission.

My $0.02.

Dave


On Jun 27, 2019, at 8:58 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The project to scan all of the Southern contracts in the SRHA archives is moving along. There are still a few to be located and scanned but it will not be long before the effort become part of SRHA's permanent digital file. Last weekend's work session was well attended but we were so busy we did not resolve how we would make copies of various digital items available. We recognize that with SRHA and TVRM's $1M plus investment in the building and purchased collections, taking the time and effort to do the scans and then simply making them available at no cost is not sensible (although we would all prefer to do that).

Contact us at archives@... if you are interested in a particular contract. They can certainly be emailed if folks are willing to make a small donation. If anyone is serious about researching an article for TIES, we can help by making contracts on that topic available.

This is V2 of the list as of today, there will be additions and corrections as we work toward the final version. The next TIES will have an article on the contracts and a second article on Hampton, FL that illustrates how useful the contracts are when doing research.

Dates for the archives work sessions through the end of the year are on the SRHA web home page at www.srha.net.

Ike
<SRHA scanned contracts 6-27-2019.docx>

moderated Re: Southern Railway Contracts List V2

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Another model which i think SRHA already follows (to address the ‘do my research for me’ request) is the National Archives & Records Administration site in College Park. You can access the materials for free if you show up in person and they have a list of local students and professionals who charge an hourly rate to conduct the research and send the results.

It is a complex problem!

Sent from Dave Bott' iPhone

On Jun 27, 2019, at 1:02 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Dave:

(A quick comment about the N&WHS and SRHA: Both groups have a commitment to pass “home road” material back and forth no questions asked. No swaps or “prisoner exchanges” are needed. That is one reason we have always had the cooperation of NS when they have historical material. They don’t want to be in the middle of an argument between historical groups and just want to know items will find their proper home.)

I agree that the N&WHS is a good example. Our (everybody’s) concern is to avoid the ridiculous pricing we see from typical museums and archives. Particularly now that the technology had moved beyond “wet paper” photo prints, amounts such as $10 for an 8x10 print, then seeing numbers like $20 per print for publishing rights are absurd.

There is a flip side tho’. If we begin by saying everything is free, a few people will simply ask for everything to build their own “archives”. Your comment about credits is right on… Actually, I don’t think we have EVER charged anyone for anything. If someone comes to the archives to do some serious research…and we see they are serious, they usually leave with whatever they need. Some may make a small donation but we don’t make a  big deal about it.

Where donations, or payments, really are necessary is when people want to print or scan more than a few copies of a document or a photo. We’ve invested in some good quality scanners and printers that will not last forever and ink for the printers has to be paid for and replaced.

The hardest thing to explain is when people want us to spend a lot of time researching or scanning THEIR project. Aside from the fact that we need to give priority to research for TIES, then model manufacturers, then what our volunteers are interested in…..it’s difficult to do other projects. (Note “serious” kicks in again here, if someone is doing research for a PhD, a commercial magazine article and such, we’ll do whatever we can to help.)

That’s my $.05 on a really complex topic.

Ike


On Jun 27, 2019, at 10:24 AM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

While it would require a further investment of volunteered skilled time on our website, the way N&WHS offers scans for sale in their Commissary seems a reasonable model. Most people researching today will pay the cost of production for access to historical data.  You could offer credits towards future scans to authors of articles in TIES to subsidize the proper use of the materials in support of SRHA’s mission.

My $0.02.

Dave


On Jun 27, 2019, at 8:58 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The project to scan all of the Southern contracts in the SRHA archives is moving along. There are still a few to be located and scanned but it will not be long before the effort become part of SRHA's permanent digital file. Last weekend's work session was well attended but we were so busy we did not resolve how we would make copies of various digital items available. We recognize that with SRHA and TVRM's $1M plus investment in the building and purchased collections, taking the time and effort to do the scans and then simply making them available at no cost is not sensible (although we would all prefer to do that).

Contact us at archives@... if you are interested in a particular contract. They can certainly be emailed if folks are willing to make a small donation. If anyone is serious about researching an article for TIES, we can help by making contracts on that topic available.

This is V2 of the list as of today, there will be additions and corrections as we work toward the final version. The next TIES will have an article on the contracts and a second article on Hampton, FL that illustrates how useful the contracts are when doing research.

Dates for the archives work sessions through the end of the year are on the SRHA web home page at www.srha.net.

Ike
<SRHA scanned contracts 6-27-2019.docx>

moderated 1945 timetable info needed

Charles Powell
 

I am helping a writer friend with a historical novel that takes place in 1945. His characters are going from Warm Springs, GA to Washington, DC. So far I have found a 1950s SR passenger Timetable that shows the line from McDonough GA to Columbus, GA as freight only. I am guessing that there might still have been passenger service in the 1940s. Does anybody have 1940s passenger timetable or know where online I could find the info? If SR was still running passenger trains to Columbus would they originated out of Atlanta or would you have to change trains at McDonough? Any help would be appreciated.
Charlie Powell

moderated Re: 1945 timetable info needed

George Eichelberger
 

Charlie:

The archives project to scan every available Southern System ETT and PTT is almost complete. I’ll ask if a 40s version of either showing Warm Springs has been scanned and see if we can post a copy. We have not decided, but I expect, to create DVD’s with all of the scans.

If anyone has SRS ETTs or PTTs, please let us know in case you can fill in a gap.

Also Re Warm Springs: I have almost finished scanning a file that describes the details of many of FDR’s POTUS specials to Warm Springs and elsewhere. The trains were typically seven cars including a Pullman Club (the first car in the consist) that carried the Presidents’ Packard auto.

My father was a US Marine on FDR’s guard detail before the war and traveled with the President a number of times. A wood ramp was carried with the Packard to load and unload it. There was contention between the Marines and railroad people because they wanted the Marines to deal with the ramp. The Marines were told they were to guard the President, not be baggage handlers.


On Jun 29, 2019, at 12:21 PM, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:

I am helping a writer friend with a historical novel that takes place in 1945. His characters are going from Warm Springs, GA to Washington, DC. So far I have found a 1950s SR passenger Timetable that shows the line from McDonough GA to Columbus, GA as freight only. I am guessing that there might still have been passenger service in the 1940s. Does anybody have 1940s passenger timetable or know where online I could find the info? If SR was still running passenger trains to Columbus would they originated out of Atlanta or would you have to change trains at McDonough? Any help would be appreciated.
Charlie Powell

moderated Re: 1945 timetable info needed

C J Wyatt
 

The May 1945 Official Guide shows train no. 24 departing Warm Springs GA at 9:37 am and arriving Atlanta at 12:30 pm. If the passenger is going via Pullman, No. 38, The Crescent, departed Atlanta at 1:35 pm. The passenger could catch No. 40 leaving at 1:55 pm if traveling in coach, but No. 40 also had a diner as far as Charlotte, as well as a NY Pullman line and a DC one, too.

Do you have a specific date in 1945 which you are looking for?

Jack Wyatt

On Saturday, June 29, 2019, 12:21:39 PM EDT, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


I am helping a writer friend with a historical novel that takes place in 1945. His characters are going from Warm Springs, GA to Washington, DC. So far I have found a 1950s SR passenger Timetable that shows the line from McDonough GA to Columbus, GA as freight only. I am guessing that there might still have been passenger service in the 1940s. Does anybody have 1940s passenger timetable or know where online I could find the info? If SR was still running passenger trains to Columbus would they originated out of Atlanta or would you have to change trains at McDonough? Any help would be appreciated.
Charlie Powell

moderated Re: 1945 timetable info needed

George Eichelberger
 

Let me clarify a bit about Pullman "club cars" carrying FDR's auto...On Jun 29, 2019, at 3:18 PM, Charles Powell wrote:

George,
I was interested in what you said about your father being on FDR's security detail prior to the war and the POTUS specials to Warm Springs. I knew that the president's car traveled with him, but I not sure I follow you on loading the Packard into a Pullman Club? I usually think of a club car as a lounge car…..

Charles:
The car is identified differently on the documentation for various trips: “Pullman club”, "Pullman club car” and “Pullman club-baggage" are all used with Pullman club-baggage being the most common.

The chapter on Southern’s “Crescent Limited” in Arthur Dubin’s “Some Classic Trains” (Pg 116) includes a photo of club car “William Moultrie” that shows and describes a lounge-baggage configuration. In Duban’s book, the same type car is shown in the B&O “Capitol Limited” and other trains, including the Santa Fe “Chief”, all are referred to as "club cars”. Was the “club” portion of those cars considered rather “high class” and “baggage” was not, thus the truncated name?

A December, 1938 trip to Warm Springs, GA included Pullman club car “Barren Hill”. A POTUS to the west coast in Jul, 1938 used club car “Long Island”. For the June 10 and 11, 1940 trip from Washington to Charlottesville then to Hyde Park, NY, Feb 14 and 15 (Washington to Pensacola) the first car was AC equipped Pullman Club-Baggage Car "Liberty Cap”. In the majority of cases, the club or club-baggage car is unnamed.

“The President Travels by Train” by Bob Withers (Pg 136) mentions “Beginning in 1942, this assignment was filled by B&O combination passenger-baggage coach 1401 under lease to the government” but there is no record for wartime POTUS trains in the SRHA file.

So…is calling club-baggage cars “club” cars simply an abbreviation or the standard of the period?

Ike

PS Further reading in the file mentions a ramp for FDR to use to get off his car. Does that imply a ramp for the auto, and the auto, was not on some trips that included a “club” car?

moderated Speeder setouts

pschmidt3013@...
 

Can anyone direct me please to a plan or photo(s) for a typical Southern speeder setout? I'm looking specifically for a location where a signal maintainer/track inspector would clear up to allow trains to pass, not the section house or speeder shed.

Thank you,
--
Paul Schmidt
Sequim WA