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Re: PA3 Headlights
D. Scott Chatfield
And both are Pyle-National products, as are all three MU plugs. How do I know this. The name is cast into all of them! The one white, one red oscillating signal light (as they were often refered to in the rulebooks) were common on railroads with lots of double track. The white light would be on in normal operation. If the brakes went into emergency (or the engineer manually turned it on), the red light would come on and the white would turn off, and any opposing trains had to stop then pass the stopped train at restricted speed looking out for derailed cars. Scott Chatfield Gary Bechdol <garyeb1947@...> wrote: Thanks, J. C. Looks like two oscillating lights in the top, with the bottom one red, similar to the ACL F's and E's. Gary
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019, 3:58 PM charliecatsrr via Groups.Io <charliecatsrr=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
George Eichelberger
Glen:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
We intend to have the Southern bay window cab available in the next month or so. To keep the price down SRHA will provide only the resin castings (possibly not including the interior as it is very difficult to appreciate through the windows) and the etched end railing, ladder and roof walk parts from Plano. Modelers can provide their own trucks, couplers and decals. Instructions and history will be on the SRHA web site and the complete package of 11" x 17” Stencil, General Arrangement and Brake drawings will be re-issued and available from the SRHA Company Store. My personal second model to produce is the 52’-6” gondola but no decision will be made until we have feedback from modelers. Ike
On Aug 5, 2019, at 6:46 PM, Glen Bole via Groups.Io <sgbole@...> wrote: Ike,
Is there a expected date that we will see these ex Wright Track kits available again from SRHA?
Glen Bole
-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> Cc: ModelingTheSouthern@southernrailway.groups.io <ModelingTheSouthern@SouthernRailway.groups.io> Sent: Mon, Aug 5, 2019 3:39 pm Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM Re: Jim’s model of the Southern 40’ lo side gons….
May I add that I believe, and have told many people, that it is one of the best, most accurate HO models ever made!
It is just one of the reasons SRHA acquired all of the Southern prototypes from WrightTrak. The Association will make the resin castings of as many of the WrightTrak models available to Southern modelers as possible. We never expect to recover SRHA's purchase cost but felt simply preserving the masters and molds was something the group needed to do.
Ike
On Aug 5, 2019, at 4:47 PM, Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote:
I’m always thrilled when Southern history is saved, especially for future service. The 2 gons have particular interest to me because I’ve produced the 1945 PS rebuild in HO, S and O (shipping now). I know TVRM is very good when it comes to accurately restoring equipment. The gons, possibly from Eastern Shore RR, have a very diverse history. ESHR had, I think, 5 of these low sides in service as ferry idlers. Attached are pix of 2. They appear identical (PS end with darts is a clue) 11-rib style from the 1945 rebuild program. It’s doubtful a car number is still visible on the centersill but that would be all that’s needed to determine a car’s history. Glad they are saved … likely the only ones to be so.
Jim King
-- Jim King www.smokymountainmodelworks.com<Eastern Shore 583 Little Creek VA 8-3-2002 R. Underwood Kodachrome lo rez.jpg><Eastern Shore 581 Little Creek VA 8-3-2002 R. Underwood Kodachrome lo rez.jpg>
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
George Eichelberger
I apologize for continuously asking for donations to preserve Southern Railway equipment nowadays but the two gons to TVRM are a perfect example. Without the willingness of people to donate the cash to pay to have the cars cleaned out, lifted onto flatbed trucks and hauled to Çhattanooga (because of their solid bearing trucks and general condition), more would be going to the scrapper.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Ike
On Aug 5, 2019, at 5:19 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote: ESHR had 10 of these, as far as I know - 5 at Cape Charles, 5 at Little Creek. When I visited recently to inspect the gondolas, there were a total of six left. I was able to determine each one’s Southern Railway number - they were still visible on the underframe.
Four of the cars had already gone to that great scrapyard in the sky; the remaining numbers were: 55858 and 58274 (both at Little Creek), and 58060, 58173, 58421, and 58964 (Cape Charles). TVRM got the 58964 and one other. —Bill
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Glen Bole <sgbole@...>
Ike,
Is there a expected date that we will see these ex Wright Track kits available again from SRHA?
Glen Bole
-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> Cc: ModelingTheSouthern@southernrailway.groups.io <ModelingTheSouthern@SouthernRailway.groups.io> Sent: Mon, Aug 5, 2019 3:39 pm Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM Re: Jim’s model of the Southern 40’ lo side gons….
May I add that I believe, and have told many people, that it is one of the best, most accurate HO models ever made!
It is just one of the reasons SRHA acquired all of the Southern prototypes from WrightTrak. The Association will make the resin castings of as many of the WrightTrak models available to Southern modelers as possible. We never expect to recover SRHA's purchase cost but felt simply preserving the masters and molds was something the group needed to do.
Ike
On Aug 5, 2019, at 4:47 PM, Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote:
I’m always thrilled when Southern history is saved, especially for future service. The 2 gons have particular interest to me because I’ve produced the 1945 PS rebuild in HO, S and O (shipping now). I know TVRM is very good when it comes to accurately restoring equipment. The gons, possibly from Eastern Shore RR, have a very diverse history. ESHR had, I think, 5 of these low sides in service as ferry idlers. Attached are pix of 2. They appear identical (PS end with darts is a clue) 11-rib style from the 1945 rebuild program. It’s doubtful a car number is still visible on the centersill but that would be all that’s needed to determine a car’s history. Glad they are saved … likely the only ones to be so.
Jim King
-- Jim King www.smokymountainmodelworks.com<Eastern Shore 583 Little Creek VA 8-3-2002 R. Underwood Kodachrome lo rez.jpg><Eastern Shore 581 Little Creek VA 8-3-2002 R. Underwood Kodachrome lo rez.jpg>
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
George Eichelberger
Re: Jim’s model of the Southern 40’ lo side gons….
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
May I add that I believe, and have told many people, that it is one of the best, most accurate HO models ever made! It is just one of the reasons SRHA acquired all of the Southern prototypes from WrightTrak. The Association will make the resin castings of as many of the WrightTrak models available to Southern modelers as possible. We never expect to recover SRHA's purchase cost but felt simply preserving the masters and molds was something the group needed to do. Ike
On Aug 5, 2019, at 4:47 PM, Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote: I’m always thrilled when Southern history is saved, especially for future service. The 2 gons have particular interest to me because I’ve produced the 1945 PS rebuild in HO, S and O (shipping now). I know TVRM is very good when it comes to accurately restoring equipment. The gons, possibly from Eastern Shore RR, have a very diverse history. ESHR had, I think, 5 of these low sides in service as ferry idlers. Attached are pix of 2. They appear identical (PS end with darts is a clue) 11-rib style from the 1945 rebuild program. It’s doubtful a car number is still visible on the centersill but that would be all that’s needed to determine a car’s history. Glad they are saved … likely the only ones to be so. Jim King -- Jim King www.smokymountainmodelworks.com<Eastern Shore 583 Little Creek VA 8-3-2002 R. Underwood Kodachrome lo rez.jpg><Eastern Shore 581 Little Creek VA 8-3-2002 R. Underwood Kodachrome lo rez.jpg>
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Bill Schafer
ESHR had 10 of these, as far as I know - 5 at Cape Charles, 5 at Little Creek. When I visited recently to inspect the gondolas, there were a total of six left. I was able to determine each one’s Southern Railway number - they were still visible on the underframe.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Four of the cars had already gone to that great scrapyard in the sky; the remaining numbers were: 55858 and 58274 (both at Little Creek), and 58060, 58173, 58421, and 58964 (Cape Charles). TVRM got the 58964 and one other. —Bill
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Jim King
I’m always thrilled when Southern history is saved, especially for future service. The 2 gons have particular interest to me because I’ve produced the 1945 PS rebuild in HO, S and O (shipping now). I know TVRM is very good when it comes to accurately restoring equipment. The gons, possibly from Eastern Shore RR, have a very diverse history. ESHR had, I think, 5 of these low sides in service as ferry idlers. Attached are pix of 2. They appear identical (PS end with darts is a clue) 11-rib style from the 1945 rebuild program. It’s doubtful a car number is still visible on the centersill but that would be all that’s needed to determine a car’s history. Glad they are saved … likely the only ones to be so.
Jim King www.smokymountainmodelworks.com
-- Jim King www.smokymountainmodelworks.com
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Re: PA3 Headlights
Gary Bechdol
Thanks, J. C. Looks like two oscillating lights in the top, with the bottom one red, similar to the ACL F's and E's. Gary
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019, 3:58 PM charliecatsrr via Groups.Io <charliecatsrr=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: PA3 Headlights
charliecatsrr <charliecatsrr@...>
Gary, Attached are photos of the front of an Alco PA-3. The first is a builders photo. J. C. Paschal - Modeling the Southern in the 40s & 50s
On Monday, August 5, 2019, 2:01:25 PM EDT, Gary Bechdol <garyeb1947@...> wrote:
What was the arrangement of headlights on the PA3's? The only clear photos I have seen show twin sealed beams in the lower light, but what was in the upper light? Gary Bechdol Stone Mountain, Ga
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PA3 Headlights
Gary Bechdol
What was the arrangement of headlights on the PA3's? The only clear photos I have seen show twin sealed beams in the lower light, but what was in the upper light?
Gary Bechdol Stone Mountain, Ga
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Ed Mims
Thanks, Ike. I’m all for “SOUTHERN” on the letter boards of a stainless steel car.
Ed
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2019 4:36 PM To: main@southernrailway.groups.io Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Ed:
The people donating the purchase cost of both cars are rather outspoken that we will see “SOUTHERN” on both cars’ letterboards. The paint on NS OC 8 is in good condition so we might see the repaint wait until everything else on the car is complete. The car has been under canvass for several years so the NS paint is in good shape as the bodywork and roof appear to be (no water leaks to speak of inside).
Probably $50K is needed to get the car to Chattanooga and get it fully restored and functional…a great opportunity for folks to make a donation to TVRM and satisfy their inner rail barron!
The car sits on shop trucks but TVRM has/knows where to get appropriate replacements.
The attached photo does not do the car justice but the canvas has protected it. Most of the underframe equipment has been removed to prepare the car for HEP, new AC hardware, etc.
Ike
On Aug 4, 2019, at 2:20 PM, Ed Mims <wemims@...> wrote:
This is good news. I’m also very happy that TVRM has adopted the policy of keeping equipment in the paint and stenciling of its previous owning railroad or original owner’s paint colors and stenciling. This makes it much more appealing to me rather than seeing Tennessee Valley on everything. I hope this will apply to the recently acquired O. C.s. and dinner (not Amtrak on the dinner, please).
Ed Mims
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
I have mentioned TVRM has purchased ex Southern Budd dining car #3307 from Amtrak. It will soon be moving from Beech Grove to TVRM for service.
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
George Eichelberger
Ed:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The people donating the purchase cost of both cars are rather outspoken that we will see “SOUTHERN” on both cars’ letterboards. The paint on NS OC 8 is in good condition so we might see the repaint wait until everything else on the car is complete. The car has been under canvass for several years so the NS paint is in good shape as the bodywork and roof appear to be (no water leaks to speak of inside). Probably $50K is needed to get the car to Chattanooga and get it fully restored and functional…a great opportunity for folks to make a donation to TVRM and satisfy their inner rail barron! The car sits on shop trucks but TVRM has/knows where to get appropriate replacements. The attached photo does not do the car justice but the canvas has protected it. Most of the underframe equipment has been removed to prepare the car for HEP, new AC hardware, etc. Ike 
On Aug 4, 2019, at 2:20 PM, Ed Mims <wemims@...> wrote: This is good news. I’m also very happy that TVRM has adopted the policy of keeping equipment in the paint and stenciling of its previous owning railroad or original owner’s paint colors and stenciling. This makes it much more appealing to me rather than seeing Tennessee Valley on everything. I hope this will apply to the recently acquired O. C.s. and dinner (not Amtrak on the dinner, please). Ed Mims From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2019 2:04 PM To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Subject: [SouthernRailway] Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM I have mentioned TVRM has purchased ex Southern Budd dining car #3307 from Amtrak. It will soon be moving from Beech Grove to TVRM for service. From the "when it rains it pours" category, TVRM is also purchasing (from a private individual) Norfolk Southern Office car #8, ex Southern OC #5. Originally Pullman "Point Richmond", the car was converted to Southern #21 on 3-24-54, to #6 on 10-26-70 and to #5 on 8-11-72. Southern official cars were renumbered as the person they were assigned to was promoted. The car is in generally good condition with a number of modifications and repairs for Amtrak service already done. (The fact that NS named the car "Tennessee" seems particularly fitting for its new home in Chattanooga.) Although the purchase price for both cars has been donated, there will be significant costs to move and restore OC 5. If anyone (!) would like to help with donations for putting both cars in service, please contact me or TVRM President Tim Andrews. Ike PS The "rain" continues...the first of two Southern 40' low side gons has been trucked to TVRM from Norfolk, VA, he second will follow shortly. One will be painted black with SOUTHERN lettering in the cars' original black paint scheme, the other in the 1959/60 Freight Car Brown scheme with block lettering. Both will be used in MoW service and photo freights.
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Ed Mims
This is good news. I’m also very happy that TVRM has adopted the policy of keeping equipment in the paint and stenciling of its previous owning railroad or original owner’s paint colors and stenciling. This makes it much more appealing to me rather than seeing Tennessee Valley on everything. I hope this will apply to the recently acquired O. C.s. and dinner (not Amtrak on the dinner, please).
Ed Mims
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
I have mentioned TVRM has purchased ex Southern Budd dining car #3307 from Amtrak. It will soon be moving from Beech Grove to TVRM for service.
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Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
George Eichelberger
I have mentioned TVRM has purchased ex Southern Budd dining car #3307 from Amtrak. It will soon be moving from Beech Grove to TVRM for service.
From the "when it rains it pours" category, TVRM is also purchasing (from a private individual) Norfolk Southern Office car #8, ex Southern OC #5. Originally Pullman "Point Richmond", the car was converted to Southern #21 on 3-24-54, to #6 on 10-26-70 and to #5 on 8-11-72. Southern official cars were renumbered as the person they were assigned to was promoted. The car is in generally good condition with a number of modifications and repairs for Amtrak service already done. (The fact that NS named the car "Tennessee" seems particularly fitting for its new home in Chattanooga.) Although the purchase price for both cars has been donated, there will be significant costs to move and restore OC 5. If anyone (!) would like to help with donations for putting both cars in service, please contact me or TVRM President Tim Andrews. Ike PS The "rain" continues...the first of two Southern 40' low side gons has been trucked to TVRM from Norfolk, VA, he second will follow shortly. One will be painted black with SOUTHERN lettering in the cars' original black paint scheme, the other in the 1959/60 Freight Car Brown scheme with block lettering. Both will be used in MoW service and photo freights.
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Re: A Silverside off-line?
Jim King
The Silverside gon with N&W 475 was taken in Bristol VA at the N&W yard during a September 1960 NRHS convention. I have a color negative of 475 taken there; the Silverside slide you saw (came from ebay auction) showed part of an N&W GP-9 or -18 in the background. There is another view of 475 with a set of stairs going into the cab for visitors and part of the Silverside in the background.
Jim King SMMW Sent from Mail for Windows 10
-- Jim King www.smokymountainmodelworks.com
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Re: Office of Defense Transportation (ODT) Files in the SRHA archives
Bill Schafer
Table of contents of 2019-3 TIES, to be mailed this upcoming week:
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* “In Case of Fire, Break Latticed Crate” - history and replication of Southern’s standard water barrel/fire bucket for putting out fires on bridges and at stations. Replica reproduced using SOU’s standards, found in Archives (Standards books are for sale through the Grab - srha.net) * "The 1905 Yellow Fever Epidemic in New Orleans" plus two sidebars: "Yellow Fever Quarantine Notices" (from the Archives) and “Order out of Chaos” - why the 1905 epidemic was the U.S.’s last. * "Southern Railway Agreements and Contracts" - overview of agreements between Southern and its subsidiaries or Southern/affiliates/subsidiaries and other companies - 1871-1960. Found in Archives and being scanned. * "GS&F-SAL - Junction and Depot, Hampton, Fla.” Description of agreements covering crossing at grade and joint depot at Hampton, Fla. - 1914-1950. An example of one set of agreements from the Contract Books in the Archives * “The Celebrity” - a teenager’s account of a Southern inspection train arriving Appalachia, Va. with Graham Claytor aboard. * "SRHA 2019 Convention wrap-up" —Bill
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Office of Defense Transportation (ODT) Files in the SRHA archives
George Eichelberger
We had another productive work session at the SRHA archives this past Thursday. Friday and Saturday. Although there is a lot of work to be done, we are making visible progress. Join us in August....
My project was to find files in the SR Presidents' collection that we can use as the basis for TIES articles. The (40, page) issue now at the printers has several articles that came directly from the files. I'll ask Editor Bill Schafer to post a description of what is in the issue. Folks that are not SRHA members may be able to get a copy where White River publications are sold or directly from the SRHA company store. In addition to the troop movements before D Day and operations in the Pacific, the ODT issued various orders that forced the railroads to cut back on passenger services after the war was over. In addition to many other examples in the files, I've attached three pages from an AAR letter describing the number of people estimated to be moved to their "home stations" in 1945 and 46. The ODT is certainly a subject that needs to/ be researched and written about in multiple historical group magazines. The request for someone to produce an article on the Yellow Fever epidemic of 1917 has produced two superb articles that are in the TIES now at the printer. If someone is interested in learning and writing about the ODT in WWII, let me know. Ike
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Re: A Silverside off-line?
wayland moore
I inherited many slides from a deceased friend's collection. He attended many NRHS conventions and one group of slides he marked 1960 NRHS convetion [the mounts didn't show dates] covered SRy F through Natural Tunnel and Middlesboro, KY. Also in the group were of ET&WNC 207 pulling an excursion train, with open gon for riders, on the Clinchfield. No way of telling if was all one trip or two different trips as numbering on the mounts looked like a 20 - 22 roll for each trip. Vaguely remember seeing somewhere in his collection a shot of the spruced up 475 and now I'll have to keep in mind film type and mount number to see if it fit into either of these groups of about 8 -10 slides each. Anyway, to this old mind would think it reasonable to have on display at this convention the engine and gon in the subject photo.
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Yesterday and next weekend at the SRHA archives
George Eichelberger
First: AC reminder, the usual third weekend of the month SRHA Archives work session is Friday and Saturday. (Several of us will be there in Thursday if anyone wold like to joiun us then.)
Yesterday and Friday was an opportunity to spend some time organizing the Hayne Shop files and looking through the Southern Railway Presidents' files. Even though items appear in the Presidents' files finding aids, until you look through the archives boxes it is difficult to understand how much is in them, and how important, some are. Two large groups of files I had never spent much time on were the WWI era ARA (American Railway Association, predecessor to the AAR) and USRA files. In addition to providing material for multiple TIES articles, they represent a source of significant academic or historical research. Although I expect most of us think "rolling stock" when he see "USRA", the extent of the Govt's control over the railroads in many operational areas was much more extensive than I realized. The conflicts and demands made by USRA in WWI are clearly the reason the railroads were so opposed to the same thing during WWII and Korea. Forcing the railroads that operated passenger trains between Chicago and St. Louis to reduce and coordinate their services is one example. Before and during the USRA, the ARA established a committee to work with the War Department on transportation issues. Southern President Fairfax Harrison was the Chairman of that group...obviously the reason so many records were kept in his files. The attached are four pages from the July 15, 1916 notice of the committee's formation. Ike PS Several of us will be at the SRHA table at the Collinsville RPM the end of th e month, stop by and say hello.
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Re: Speeder setouts
Pre-dating Bill by a few years, I was told A type cars had been "outlawed" on the Southern before my time. I was involved with replacing broken rails by chaining the replacement rail under an M-19 motorcar to get it to the site. We'd use lining bars to guide the rail over grade crossings and turnouts. One such replacement was on the NO&NE mainline. However, the RCM was used following the Sperry Car. John O. Hedrick
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