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Enoree River
Roy McLain
In which passenger train was Pullman “Enoree River” mostly used?
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
I;m with Marv; I'd much rather see Clover and other Pullman cars in Pullman Green. I once asked the late Bob Soule why they had chosen Tuscan red for their cars, that being a more N&W and Pennsy color than Southern. He said, if I recall correctly, that the decision was driven by the donation of something like near 1,000 gallons of the Tuscan color. That seemed to me to be a perfectly rational explanation. Doug A.
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Bill Schafer
TVRM didn’t paint it in Pullman green; that’s the way it was painted when TVRM received it. I was never comfortable with this paint job because the person who lettered it used zeroes instead of letter “o”s in the name Clover Colony when the car was lettered. That’s not a mistake Pullman would have made.
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Its present scheme (maroon, lettered for “Tennessee Valley” with “Pullman” at the corners) was chosen to depict what the car would look like if it had been divested by the Pullman Company to the Tennessee Valley RR, circa 1948 or so, but that was leased back to Pullman for operation. —Bill
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Marv Clemons
Right on, Ed. I'm still waiting for CLOVER COLONY to return to her original Pullman green as first painted by TVRM, seen below on an early Summerville excursion.
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Marv Clemons
OC #9 is a personal favorite and one of the first SR office cars I recall from my time at Birmingham Terminal Station from 1963-65. Here's a scan from a slide I took but forgot to tag. I know it's not Birmingham, but could it be Knoxville?
Marv Clemons
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Re: PA3 Headlights
Ed Mims
http://www.trainweb.org/gyra/history.htm
Link to interesting story about Pyle-National and Mars lights.
Ed Mims
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of D. Scott Chatfield
Sent: Monday, August 05, 2019 10:48 PM To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] PA3 Headlights
And both are Pyle-National products, as are all three MU plugs. How do I know this. The name is cast into all of them!
The one white, one red oscillating signal light (as they were often refered to in the rulebooks) were common on railroads with lots of double track. The white light would be on in normal operation. If the brakes went into emergency (or the engineer manually turned it on), the red light would come on and the white would turn off, and any opposing trains had to stop then pass the stopped train at restricted speed looking out for derailed cars.
Scott Chatfield
Thanks, J. C.
Looks like two oscillating lights in the top, with the bottom one red, similar to the ACL F's and E's.
Gary
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019, 3:58 PM charliecatsrr via Groups.Io <charliecatsrr=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Rodney Shu
How can I find out what ever happened to SOU Office Car #9? I spent a lot time in the '60s in service for the Western General Manager at Knoxville.
R. Shu
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Re: PA3 Headlights
D. Scott Chatfield
And both are Pyle-National products, as are all three MU plugs. How do I know this. The name is cast into all of them! The one white, one red oscillating signal light (as they were often refered to in the rulebooks) were common on railroads with lots of double track. The white light would be on in normal operation. If the brakes went into emergency (or the engineer manually turned it on), the red light would come on and the white would turn off, and any opposing trains had to stop then pass the stopped train at restricted speed looking out for derailed cars. Scott Chatfield Gary Bechdol <garyeb1947@...> wrote: Thanks, J. C. Looks like two oscillating lights in the top, with the bottom one red, similar to the ACL F's and E's. Gary
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019, 3:58 PM charliecatsrr via Groups.Io <charliecatsrr=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
George Eichelberger
Glen:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
We intend to have the Southern bay window cab available in the next month or so. To keep the price down SRHA will provide only the resin castings (possibly not including the interior as it is very difficult to appreciate through the windows) and the etched end railing, ladder and roof walk parts from Plano. Modelers can provide their own trucks, couplers and decals. Instructions and history will be on the SRHA web site and the complete package of 11" x 17” Stencil, General Arrangement and Brake drawings will be re-issued and available from the SRHA Company Store. My personal second model to produce is the 52’-6” gondola but no decision will be made until we have feedback from modelers. Ike
On Aug 5, 2019, at 6:46 PM, Glen Bole via Groups.Io <sgbole@...> wrote: Ike,
Is there a expected date that we will see these ex Wright Track kits available again from SRHA?
Glen Bole
-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> Cc: ModelingTheSouthern@southernrailway.groups.io <ModelingTheSouthern@SouthernRailway.groups.io> Sent: Mon, Aug 5, 2019 3:39 pm Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM Re: Jim’s model of the Southern 40’ lo side gons….
May I add that I believe, and have told many people, that it is one of the best, most accurate HO models ever made!
It is just one of the reasons SRHA acquired all of the Southern prototypes from WrightTrak. The Association will make the resin castings of as many of the WrightTrak models available to Southern modelers as possible. We never expect to recover SRHA's purchase cost but felt simply preserving the masters and molds was something the group needed to do.
Ike
On Aug 5, 2019, at 4:47 PM, Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote:
I’m always thrilled when Southern history is saved, especially for future service. The 2 gons have particular interest to me because I’ve produced the 1945 PS rebuild in HO, S and O (shipping now). I know TVRM is very good when it comes to accurately restoring equipment. The gons, possibly from Eastern Shore RR, have a very diverse history. ESHR had, I think, 5 of these low sides in service as ferry idlers. Attached are pix of 2. They appear identical (PS end with darts is a clue) 11-rib style from the 1945 rebuild program. It’s doubtful a car number is still visible on the centersill but that would be all that’s needed to determine a car’s history. Glad they are saved … likely the only ones to be so.
Jim King
-- Jim King www.smokymountainmodelworks.com<Eastern Shore 583 Little Creek VA 8-3-2002 R. Underwood Kodachrome lo rez.jpg><Eastern Shore 581 Little Creek VA 8-3-2002 R. Underwood Kodachrome lo rez.jpg>
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
George Eichelberger
I apologize for continuously asking for donations to preserve Southern Railway equipment nowadays but the two gons to TVRM are a perfect example. Without the willingness of people to donate the cash to pay to have the cars cleaned out, lifted onto flatbed trucks and hauled to Çhattanooga (because of their solid bearing trucks and general condition), more would be going to the scrapper.
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Ike
On Aug 5, 2019, at 5:19 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote: ESHR had 10 of these, as far as I know - 5 at Cape Charles, 5 at Little Creek. When I visited recently to inspect the gondolas, there were a total of six left. I was able to determine each one’s Southern Railway number - they were still visible on the underframe.
Four of the cars had already gone to that great scrapyard in the sky; the remaining numbers were: 55858 and 58274 (both at Little Creek), and 58060, 58173, 58421, and 58964 (Cape Charles). TVRM got the 58964 and one other. —Bill
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Glen Bole <sgbole@...>
Ike,
Is there a expected date that we will see these ex Wright Track kits available again from SRHA?
Glen Bole
-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> Cc: ModelingTheSouthern@southernrailway.groups.io <ModelingTheSouthern@SouthernRailway.groups.io> Sent: Mon, Aug 5, 2019 3:39 pm Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM Re: Jim’s model of the Southern 40’ lo side gons….
May I add that I believe, and have told many people, that it is one of the best, most accurate HO models ever made!
It is just one of the reasons SRHA acquired all of the Southern prototypes from WrightTrak. The Association will make the resin castings of as many of the WrightTrak models available to Southern modelers as possible. We never expect to recover SRHA's purchase cost but felt simply preserving the masters and molds was something the group needed to do.
Ike
On Aug 5, 2019, at 4:47 PM, Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote:
I’m always thrilled when Southern history is saved, especially for future service. The 2 gons have particular interest to me because I’ve produced the 1945 PS rebuild in HO, S and O (shipping now). I know TVRM is very good when it comes to accurately restoring equipment. The gons, possibly from Eastern Shore RR, have a very diverse history. ESHR had, I think, 5 of these low sides in service as ferry idlers. Attached are pix of 2. They appear identical (PS end with darts is a clue) 11-rib style from the 1945 rebuild program. It’s doubtful a car number is still visible on the centersill but that would be all that’s needed to determine a car’s history. Glad they are saved … likely the only ones to be so.
Jim King
-- Jim King www.smokymountainmodelworks.com<Eastern Shore 583 Little Creek VA 8-3-2002 R. Underwood Kodachrome lo rez.jpg><Eastern Shore 581 Little Creek VA 8-3-2002 R. Underwood Kodachrome lo rez.jpg>
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
George Eichelberger
Re: Jim’s model of the Southern 40’ lo side gons….
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
May I add that I believe, and have told many people, that it is one of the best, most accurate HO models ever made! It is just one of the reasons SRHA acquired all of the Southern prototypes from WrightTrak. The Association will make the resin castings of as many of the WrightTrak models available to Southern modelers as possible. We never expect to recover SRHA's purchase cost but felt simply preserving the masters and molds was something the group needed to do. Ike
On Aug 5, 2019, at 4:47 PM, Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote: I’m always thrilled when Southern history is saved, especially for future service. The 2 gons have particular interest to me because I’ve produced the 1945 PS rebuild in HO, S and O (shipping now). I know TVRM is very good when it comes to accurately restoring equipment. The gons, possibly from Eastern Shore RR, have a very diverse history. ESHR had, I think, 5 of these low sides in service as ferry idlers. Attached are pix of 2. They appear identical (PS end with darts is a clue) 11-rib style from the 1945 rebuild program. It’s doubtful a car number is still visible on the centersill but that would be all that’s needed to determine a car’s history. Glad they are saved … likely the only ones to be so. Jim King -- Jim King www.smokymountainmodelworks.com<Eastern Shore 583 Little Creek VA 8-3-2002 R. Underwood Kodachrome lo rez.jpg><Eastern Shore 581 Little Creek VA 8-3-2002 R. Underwood Kodachrome lo rez.jpg>
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Bill Schafer
ESHR had 10 of these, as far as I know - 5 at Cape Charles, 5 at Little Creek. When I visited recently to inspect the gondolas, there were a total of six left. I was able to determine each one’s Southern Railway number - they were still visible on the underframe.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Four of the cars had already gone to that great scrapyard in the sky; the remaining numbers were: 55858 and 58274 (both at Little Creek), and 58060, 58173, 58421, and 58964 (Cape Charles). TVRM got the 58964 and one other. —Bill
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Jim King
I’m always thrilled when Southern history is saved, especially for future service. The 2 gons have particular interest to me because I’ve produced the 1945 PS rebuild in HO, S and O (shipping now). I know TVRM is very good when it comes to accurately restoring equipment. The gons, possibly from Eastern Shore RR, have a very diverse history. ESHR had, I think, 5 of these low sides in service as ferry idlers. Attached are pix of 2. They appear identical (PS end with darts is a clue) 11-rib style from the 1945 rebuild program. It’s doubtful a car number is still visible on the centersill but that would be all that’s needed to determine a car’s history. Glad they are saved … likely the only ones to be so.
Jim King www.smokymountainmodelworks.com
-- Jim King www.smokymountainmodelworks.com
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Re: PA3 Headlights
Gary Bechdol
Thanks, J. C. Looks like two oscillating lights in the top, with the bottom one red, similar to the ACL F's and E's. Gary
On Mon, Aug 5, 2019, 3:58 PM charliecatsrr via Groups.Io <charliecatsrr=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
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Re: PA3 Headlights
charliecatsrr <charliecatsrr@...>
Gary, Attached are photos of the front of an Alco PA-3. The first is a builders photo. J. C. Paschal - Modeling the Southern in the 40s & 50s
On Monday, August 5, 2019, 2:01:25 PM EDT, Gary Bechdol <garyeb1947@...> wrote:
What was the arrangement of headlights on the PA3's? The only clear photos I have seen show twin sealed beams in the lower light, but what was in the upper light? Gary Bechdol Stone Mountain, Ga
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PA3 Headlights
Gary Bechdol
What was the arrangement of headlights on the PA3's? The only clear photos I have seen show twin sealed beams in the lower light, but what was in the upper light?
Gary Bechdol Stone Mountain, Ga
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Ed Mims
Thanks, Ike. I’m all for “SOUTHERN” on the letter boards of a stainless steel car.
Ed
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2019 4:36 PM To: main@southernrailway.groups.io Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Ed:
The people donating the purchase cost of both cars are rather outspoken that we will see “SOUTHERN” on both cars’ letterboards. The paint on NS OC 8 is in good condition so we might see the repaint wait until everything else on the car is complete. The car has been under canvass for several years so the NS paint is in good shape as the bodywork and roof appear to be (no water leaks to speak of inside).
Probably $50K is needed to get the car to Chattanooga and get it fully restored and functional…a great opportunity for folks to make a donation to TVRM and satisfy their inner rail barron!
The car sits on shop trucks but TVRM has/knows where to get appropriate replacements.
The attached photo does not do the car justice but the canvas has protected it. Most of the underframe equipment has been removed to prepare the car for HEP, new AC hardware, etc.
Ike
On Aug 4, 2019, at 2:20 PM, Ed Mims <wemims@...> wrote:
This is good news. I’m also very happy that TVRM has adopted the policy of keeping equipment in the paint and stenciling of its previous owning railroad or original owner’s paint colors and stenciling. This makes it much more appealing to me rather than seeing Tennessee Valley on everything. I hope this will apply to the recently acquired O. C.s. and dinner (not Amtrak on the dinner, please).
Ed Mims
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
I have mentioned TVRM has purchased ex Southern Budd dining car #3307 from Amtrak. It will soon be moving from Beech Grove to TVRM for service.
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
George Eichelberger
Ed:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The people donating the purchase cost of both cars are rather outspoken that we will see “SOUTHERN” on both cars’ letterboards. The paint on NS OC 8 is in good condition so we might see the repaint wait until everything else on the car is complete. The car has been under canvass for several years so the NS paint is in good shape as the bodywork and roof appear to be (no water leaks to speak of inside). Probably $50K is needed to get the car to Chattanooga and get it fully restored and functional…a great opportunity for folks to make a donation to TVRM and satisfy their inner rail barron! The car sits on shop trucks but TVRM has/knows where to get appropriate replacements. The attached photo does not do the car justice but the canvas has protected it. Most of the underframe equipment has been removed to prepare the car for HEP, new AC hardware, etc. Ike
On Aug 4, 2019, at 2:20 PM, Ed Mims <wemims@...> wrote: This is good news. I’m also very happy that TVRM has adopted the policy of keeping equipment in the paint and stenciling of its previous owning railroad or original owner’s paint colors and stenciling. This makes it much more appealing to me rather than seeing Tennessee Valley on everything. I hope this will apply to the recently acquired O. C.s. and dinner (not Amtrak on the dinner, please). Ed Mims From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2019 2:04 PM To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Subject: [SouthernRailway] Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM I have mentioned TVRM has purchased ex Southern Budd dining car #3307 from Amtrak. It will soon be moving from Beech Grove to TVRM for service. From the "when it rains it pours" category, TVRM is also purchasing (from a private individual) Norfolk Southern Office car #8, ex Southern OC #5. Originally Pullman "Point Richmond", the car was converted to Southern #21 on 3-24-54, to #6 on 10-26-70 and to #5 on 8-11-72. Southern official cars were renumbered as the person they were assigned to was promoted. The car is in generally good condition with a number of modifications and repairs for Amtrak service already done. (The fact that NS named the car "Tennessee" seems particularly fitting for its new home in Chattanooga.) Although the purchase price for both cars has been donated, there will be significant costs to move and restore OC 5. If anyone (!) would like to help with donations for putting both cars in service, please contact me or TVRM President Tim Andrews. Ike PS The "rain" continues...the first of two Southern 40' low side gons has been trucked to TVRM from Norfolk, VA, he second will follow shortly. One will be painted black with SOUTHERN lettering in the cars' original black paint scheme, the other in the 1959/60 Freight Car Brown scheme with block lettering. Both will be used in MoW service and photo freights.
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Re: Southern dining car 3307 and OC 5 to TVRM
Ed Mims
This is good news. I’m also very happy that TVRM has adopted the policy of keeping equipment in the paint and stenciling of its previous owning railroad or original owner’s paint colors and stenciling. This makes it much more appealing to me rather than seeing Tennessee Valley on everything. I hope this will apply to the recently acquired O. C.s. and dinner (not Amtrak on the dinner, please).
Ed Mims
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
I have mentioned TVRM has purchased ex Southern Budd dining car #3307 from Amtrak. It will soon be moving from Beech Grove to TVRM for service.
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