Date   

locked [ModelingTheSouthern] Green Light slogan debut

George Eichelberger
 

A cross post from “Modeling the Southern”…..

Begin forwarded message:

From: george eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Subject: Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] Green Light slogan debut
Date: October 10, 2019 at 4:28:43 PM EDT

Scott:

You are certainly welcome…..

As a reminder, the next SRHA archives work session will be Fri and Sat the 18th and 19th of Oct. Several of us will be there starting late Thursday morning if anyone wants to come then.

I have not spoken to Tim Andrews at TVRM lately so I do not know if CSX has moved Southern dining car 3307 (Budd 1949) from Nashville to Chattanooga or what the plans are to move NS office car #8 (ex SR #5) from Madison , IL. I expect TVRM will move quickly to put 3307 in service. Everyone is welcome to help plan, work on (and help pay for!) the restoration of Southern #5.

We will continue to look for drawings, memos and work orders for Southern #5 at the work session.

Join us!

Ike


On Oct 10, 2019, at 3:24 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:

Thanks Ike!


Scott Chatfield
_._,_._,_




locked Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Rodney Shu
 

I'll be there.   Thanks.           May wear my SAL hat 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Marv Clemons <mclemonsjr@...>
Sent: Sunday, October 6, 2019 2:31 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL
 
Rodney, if you're referring to Larry Goolby's presentation on Seaboard passenger service on the Birmingham District, that's coming up next Saturday, October 12th at 2PM at Leeds Depot. 

Hope to see you there and any other closeted SAL railfans in the Southern fraternity who would like to attend.

Marv


locked Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Marv Clemons
 

Rodney, if you're referring to Larry Goolby's presentation on Seaboard passenger service on the Birmingham District, that's coming up next Saturday, October 12th at 2PM at Leeds Depot. 

Hope to see you there and any other closeted SAL railfans in the Southern fraternity who would like to attend.

Marv


locked Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Rodney Shu
 

When is your Leads Depot presentation?




From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Marv Clemons <mclemonsjr@...>
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 4:44 PM
To: rgraham2@... <rgraham2@...>; main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL
 

Thank you, Bob.  I was just hoping!

 

From: rgraham2@... [mailto:rgraham2@...]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 4:35 PM
To: 'main@SouthernRailway.groups.io'; 'mclemonsjr@...'
Subject: RE: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

 

Don't think so, Marvin. It appears to be the restored Hampton SC H&B RR depot in Hampton.

 

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Marv Clemons"
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Monday September 30 2019 5:20:05PM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Can anyone confirm whether this is the SOU/SAL depot at Hampton, Florida?

Thanks,
Marv Clemons




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locked Plant Sys Pres to Sam Spencer, CC to Henry Walters re Jesup cutoff Feb 22, 1901

George Eichelberger
 

The Southern Railway Presidents' files in the SRHA archive date to before the Southern was organized, the early years of railroading in the Southeast are well documented

The attached letter to Samuel Spencer is a response to a letter from thr Southern asking if the cutoff between Jesup and Folkston, GA will be in service for the 1902 Florida travel season. At the time the letter was written, the ACL did not control the Plant System and as it considered both the ACL and Southern as "friendly" connections for passenger and freight traffic into Florida.

Previously, when the expanding SAL acquired the FC&P, relations between the Seaboard and the Southern became very much "un-friendly" as the SAL was nor interested in "short hauling" Florida traffic that had been interchanged between the Southern and FC&P. After the Coast Line acquired the Plant System, the Southern and ACL developed a working relationship that included traffic rights on the ACL from Hardeeville, SC to Jacksonville, Fla that lasted until the SCL merger. (As the ACL was not interested in short hauling either, until the SCL merger, the Southern and ACL only interchanged traffic at Tifton, GA, never Jacksonville.)

(Henry Flagler was concerned that FEC traffic bridged to the Southern by the Plant System and FC&P would be stopped. Once the traffic rights were established, the Southern and FEC had a direct interchange in Jacksonville the FEC considered critical for fruit and vegtable traffic from Florida to the midwest. Sam Spencer had agreed to "let the Plant System be the Plant System" (to pre-use an argument from the Conrail era) and not attempt to take over the Plant System as long as it was friendly to both the ACL and Southern. Both Flagler and Spencer were "blindsided" when Plant's widow sold the property to the Coast Line. A letter from Flagler in the SRHA archives asks Spencer if he was secretly negotiating with Plant's widow before the ACL deal was announced.

Southern being supported by J.P. Morgan probably convinced the Coast Line that a good relationship with the SR was in its best interest. That relationship also let them "gang up" on the Seaboard as unnecessary.

Ike


locked Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

George Eichelberger
 

Marv:

Welcome to SRHA!

Now that you are “official”, we need to get you to the archives to look through the Birmingham material. With multiple roads interchanging passengers and freight traffic, Birmingham has as many bi-lateral contracts as any other SR city. For example, “In the Junctions and Streets of Birmingham” could look at the contracts and maps describing how the Frisco, L&N, BS, SAL and ACL were interconnected and look to see what trackage exists today. The details of the Southern and CofG trackage, and trackage swaps, both used to get into Terminal Station are interesting by themselves.

I am told quite a few of the structures still stand at Findley Yard. We have several files and drawings on that facility along with the construction of the new yard at Irondale. Grist for more Birmingham articles….

Ike

PS The 2020 SRHA convention will be in Richmond. There is quite a bit of Richmond related material in the archives. We should put a Richmond article together for TIES in advance of the meet.


On Oct 1, 2019, at 9:45 AM, Marv Clemons <mclemonsjr@...> wrote:

Congratulations, Ike, you've embarrassed me into subscribing to TIES!  My check for SRHA membership will be coming forthwith.

I have some artwork and perhaps a few photos of the "Sunbeam" I'd be happy to share for your forthcoming article.  I'll get back to you shortly.

Best regards,
Marv


locked Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Marv Clemons
 

Congratulations, Ike, you've embarrassed me into subscribing to TIES!  My check for SRHA membership will be coming forthwith.

I have some artwork and perhaps a few photos of the "Sunbeam" I'd be happy to share for your forthcoming article.  I'll get back to you shortly.

Best regards,
Marv


locked Discontinuance of Southern Trains 11 & 12 Columbia - Charleston in 1950

Cohen Bob
 

Ike:

A fascinating group of documents. I, too, have researched a lot about trains 11 and 12, but from the Washington Division, and from what I have read, things never quite got as testy in Virginia as they did in Charleston. Richmond always seemed to be more amenable or at least more civil and matter-of-factly I think.

Thanks for sharing and finding these magnificent documents .................... and of so many others which you just don't have the time to share with us.

Such small snippets enable all of us to look thru this small window of railroad politics and life.

Bob Cohen


locked Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

George Eichelberger
 

We ran an article on Hampton, Fla in the last issue of TIES. In addition to Seaboard and Southern drawings of the interlocking plant and contracts between the two railroads controlling how the depot and interlocking was operated, there were several photos included. Here is a print from the Ben Roberts collection in the SRHA archives of the depot in April, 1958. (Copies of TIES are available from the GRAB at www.srha.net.)

Today, with the GS&F line to Palatka gone there is virtually no trace of the interlocking plant or the structures visible today.

The article mentioned Hampton was where the “Florida Sunbeam” from Atlanta and points in the Midwest changed from GS&F to SAL trackage to get to Tampa and St. Pete. An article on the Sunbeam will appear in TIES shortly. Photos of the seasonal train are rather rare. If anyone has any they could let us use in the article, that would be great. (An article on Palatka is also in the works.)

Ike



On Sep 30, 2019, at 5:44 PM, Marv Clemons <mclemonsjr@...> wrote:

Thank you, Bob.  I was just hoping!
 
From: rgraham2@... [mailto:rgraham2@...] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 4:35 PM
To: 'main@SouthernRailway.groups.io'; 'mclemonsjr@...'
Subject: RE: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL
 
Don't think so, Marvin. It appears to be the restored Hampton SC H&B RR depot in Hampton.

 

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Marv Clemons" 
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc: 
Sent: Monday September 30 2019 5:20:05PM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Can anyone confirm whether this is the SOU/SAL depot at Hampton, Florida?

Thanks,
Marv Clemons 




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locked Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Marv Clemons
 

Thank you, Bob.  I was just hoping!

 

From: rgraham2@... [mailto:rgraham2@...]
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2019 4:35 PM
To: 'main@SouthernRailway.groups.io'; 'mclemonsjr@...'
Subject: RE: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

 

Don't think so, Marvin. It appears to be the restored Hampton SC H&B RR depot in Hampton.

 

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Marv Clemons"
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Monday September 30 2019 5:20:05PM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Can anyone confirm whether this is the SOU/SAL depot at Hampton, Florida?

Thanks,
Marv Clemons




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locked Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Robert Graham
 

Don't think so, Marvin. It appears to be the restored Hampton SC H&B RR depot in Hampton.


Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "Marv Clemons"
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Monday September 30 2019 5:20:05PM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Can anyone confirm whether this is the SOU/SAL depot at Hampton, Florida?

Thanks,
Marv Clemons


locked Re: SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Roy McLain
 

That looks like the Hampton and Branchville RR facility in Hampton, SC.
Roy McLain


locked SOU/SAL joint depot at Hampton FL

Marv Clemons
 

Can anyone confirm whether this is the SOU/SAL depot at Hampton, Florida?

Thanks,
Marv Clemons


locked 10-6 "River" Sleepers Assignment Question

Steve Sejda
 

Hi all,

I thoroughly enjoyed the Enoree River topic posted a few weeks ago as much info about the 10-6 sleepers was provided. I am interested in the 1952-era consist info regarding the River sleepers that serviced Greenville (TR 29, Peach Queen), Winston-Salem (TR 39) & Raleigh (TR 39). These sleepers appeared in PRR TR 151 east of Washington DC but their consist book does not list car assignment names. 

Thanks in advance for any car assignment info you may be able to provide.

Steve Sejda
Monroeville, NJ


locked Discontinuance of Southern Trains 11 & 12 Columbia - Charleston in 1950

George Eichelberger
 

The next archives work session will be Oct 18th and 19th. Several projects are underway or nearing completion but more continue to be identified that will "fit" almost anyone's interest in the Southern Railway. Join us at the archives if you can.....

As usual, the last SRHA archives work session unearthed a series of interesting documents. Beginning after WWII, the Southern attempted, and usually succeeded, in discontinuing many passenger trains. In addition to periodic summaries showing the status of train-off filings, there are individual files on a number of trains. As more files are located, we will make a list to show which trains we have information and files about.

Aside from simple lack of passengers, the files show the interplay between passenger, mail and Railway Express services. In several cases, before the Post Office stopped the Railway Mail Service, mail and REA contracts were used as arguments against discontinuing passenger trains. I've attached three items from the file on trains 11 and 12 between Columbia and Charleston. I expect very few train-off arguments could have included documents dating to December 17, 1832, three pages from the file are attached.

A future TIES article will cover Charleston Union Station, mentioned in the cover letter.

Ike



locked Re: Southeastern Railway Museum

Mike Pierry, Jr.
 

Ed,

Glad Jason explained what took place. I had an article published by the Bristol Herald Courier that gave more details of the Texas duties.

Mike Pierry, Jr.

On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 9:03 PM Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:
Building at Grant park is gone. It is now the Safari exhibit of the zoo. 

The cyclorama was restored and is now at the history center too. It is in a two story building to the left of the Texas in the picture posted earlier. The Texas and a future exhibit on the 1996 Olympics are between the main museum and the new cyclorama building. 

Jason Greene 

On Sep 29, 2019, at 8:44 PM, Edwin Locklin <elocklin@...> wrote:

MIke,
 
I wonder why they didn’t return this locomotive back to the basement of the Cyclorama building in Grant Park.
 
Ed Locklin at mp367.
 
 
 
 
From: Mike Pierry, Jr.
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 9:45 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southeastern Railway Museum
 
Jason is technically correct. The display was however,
<SIX_81694385-4745-4B0C-96D2-0C0DE44FFA00.jpg>
designed to make viewing the locomotive possible without entering the building.
I attach my photo from earlier this year.
 
Mike Pierry, Jr.
 
On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 9:05 PM Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:
Actually, it is inside the museum. You can see it from the outside.

Jason Greene

On Sep 28, 2019, at 7:46 PM, Mike Pierry, Jr. <mpierryjr@...> wrote:

Have you considered visiting the Texas? It is displayed behind glass on the outside of the History Museum in Buckhead.
 
Mike Pierry, Jr.
 
On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 4:49 PM David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:
Hey all,

I am visiting Atlanta for a few days next week and on Thursday, I am planning to make a trip for the first time to the Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Railway_Museum

I plan to see everything thats publicly open, but is there anything I should make sure I don't miss?

If I have extra time, does anyone need any photos or measurements of anything at the museum?

Thanks,
David Friedlander


locked Re: Southeastern Railway Museum

Jason Greene
 

Building at Grant park is gone. It is now the Safari exhibit of the zoo. 

The cyclorama was restored and is now at the history center too. It is in a two story building to the left of the Texas in the picture posted earlier. The Texas and a future exhibit on the 1996 Olympics are between the main museum and the new cyclorama building. 

Jason Greene 

On Sep 29, 2019, at 8:44 PM, Edwin Locklin <elocklin@...> wrote:

MIke,
 
I wonder why they didn’t return this locomotive back to the basement of the Cyclorama building in Grant Park.
 
Ed Locklin at mp367.
 
 
 
 
From: Mike Pierry, Jr.
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 9:45 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southeastern Railway Museum
 
Jason is technically correct. The display was however,
<SIX_81694385-4745-4B0C-96D2-0C0DE44FFA00.jpg>
designed to make viewing the locomotive possible without entering the building.
I attach my photo from earlier this year.
 
Mike Pierry, Jr.
 
On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 9:05 PM Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:
Actually, it is inside the museum. You can see it from the outside.

Jason Greene

On Sep 28, 2019, at 7:46 PM, Mike Pierry, Jr. <mpierryjr@...> wrote:

Have you considered visiting the Texas? It is displayed behind glass on the outside of the History Museum in Buckhead.
 
Mike Pierry, Jr.
 
On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 4:49 PM David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:
Hey all,

I am visiting Atlanta for a few days next week and on Thursday, I am planning to make a trip for the first time to the Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Railway_Museum

I plan to see everything thats publicly open, but is there anything I should make sure I don't miss?

If I have extra time, does anyone need any photos or measurements of anything at the museum?

Thanks,
David Friedlander


locked Re: Southeastern Railway Museum

 

MIke,
 
I wonder why they didn’t return this locomotive back to the basement of the Cyclorama building in Grant Park.
 
Ed Locklin at mp367.
 
 
 
 

From: Mike Pierry, Jr.
Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2019 9:45 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southeastern Railway Museum
 
Jason is technically correct. The display was however,
designed to make viewing the locomotive possible without entering the building.
I attach my photo from earlier this year.
 
Mike Pierry, Jr.
 
On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 9:05 PM Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:
Actually, it is inside the museum. You can see it from the outside.

Jason Greene

On Sep 28, 2019, at 7:46 PM, Mike Pierry, Jr. <mpierryjr@...> wrote:

Have you considered visiting the Texas? It is displayed behind glass on the outside of the History Museum in Buckhead.
 
Mike Pierry, Jr.
 
On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 4:49 PM David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:
Hey all,

I am visiting Atlanta for a few days next week and on Thursday, I am planning to make a trip for the first time to the Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Railway_Museum

I plan to see everything thats publicly open, but is there anything I should make sure I don't miss?

If I have extra time, does anyone need any photos or measurements of anything at the museum?

Thanks,
David Friedlander


locked Re: Southeastern Railway Museum

David Friedlander
 

Mike,

Cool photo.  I had no idea that's there. I will have to see if the friend I'm staying with wants to venture over there.  He is into history a good bit, so its a good possibility we can detour that way.

David


On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 8:45 PM Mike Pierry, Jr. <mpierryjr@...> wrote:
Have you considered visiting the Texas? It is displayed behind glass on the outside of the History Museum in Buckhead.

Mike Pierry, Jr.

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 4:49 PM David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:
Hey all,

I am visiting Atlanta for a few days next week and on Thursday, I am planning to make a trip for the first time to the Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Railway_Museum

I plan to see everything thats publicly open, but is there anything I should make sure I don't miss?

If I have extra time, does anyone need any photos or measurements of anything at the museum?

Thanks,
David Friedlander


locked Re: Southeastern Railway Museum

Mike Pierry, Jr.
 

Jason is technically correct. The display was however,
designed to make viewing the locomotive possible without entering the building.
I attach my photo from earlier this year.

Mike Pierry, Jr.

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 9:05 PM Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:
Actually, it is inside the museum. You can see it from the outside. 

Jason Greene 

On Sep 28, 2019, at 7:46 PM, Mike Pierry, Jr. <mpierryjr@...> wrote:

Have you considered visiting the Texas? It is displayed behind glass on the outside of the History Museum in Buckhead.

Mike Pierry, Jr.

On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 4:49 PM David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:
Hey all,

I am visiting Atlanta for a few days next week and on Thursday, I am planning to make a trip for the first time to the Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southeastern_Railway_Museum

I plan to see everything thats publicly open, but is there anything I should make sure I don't miss?

If I have extra time, does anyone need any photos or measurements of anything at the museum?

Thanks,
David Friedlander

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