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Re: Southern Railway Aggregate Hoppers
Jason Greene
The Southern did not have classes for the freight cars.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The drawings are however for specific number series of cars. Jason Greene
On Nov 22, 2019, at 4:37 PM, Ryan Harris <ryan.harris@...> wrote:
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Sou 550555
George Eichelberger
Here are two photos of Sou 550550. One is when the car was turned over to the Southern, the second photo is the only time I saw the car long after it was painted. The “in service” photo was taken in Mechanicsville, NY on 8-5-80 in a D&H train.
Note the odd feature of the second photo….the car has a (much newer) “SOUTHERN” road name above the number. (SR and PRR did not follow the AAR standard..there is none on the as-built car.) Ike  
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Re: Southern 390399 "Ortner's 10,000th Rapid Discharge Car" Questions
George Eichelberger
I cannot locate data on the Ortner car but recall it was the standard stencil arrangement with the 10,000 car stencil added. Other than that, it was the standard stencil scheme except on a blue car.
MDC did their car, including 390423 (think I have two if anyone wants one) with five bays. That was the standard Orton design but Southern asked for a four-bay version because they thought it would stand up to heavy use better. We sent a package of drawings and P-S photos to the NCTM that they used to do an excellent restoration of the paint scheme. A lower res version of P-S drawing M-024-295 is attached. (By 1970, Southern had stopped tracing carbuilders’ drawings so their is no “SF” version.) Ike 
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Re: Southern 390399 "Ortner's 10,000th Rapid Discharge Car" Questions
Robert Graham
That Ortner rapid discharge hopper was a one-of-a-kind commemorative paint livery car, similar to the Pullman-Standard 200,000th car SOU boxcar 550555 that ran around for quite a while in its blue/green/yellow special paint on the SOU. I have a shot of it somewhere. But, be aware that those SOU Ortner rapid discharge N scale model hoppers illustrated are incorrect for SOU. They are 5 bay cars and the SOU Ortner rapid discharge cars were all 4 bay. In HO scale, MDC (I think it was) made the same error.
As to the more mundane stenciling seen on these commemorative painted cars, the SOU 550555 did receive the more common stenciling common to the other SOU cars in this group of P-S exterior post boxcars. I shot it in service that way several times. I doubt there is a set of drawings that reflect that car, other than as-built. I would imagine the commemorative Ortner rapid discharge hopper car was handled in a similar fashion. Bob Graham ----------------------------------------- From: "Ryan Harris"To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Cc: Sent: Friday November 22 2019 3:52:16PM Subject: [SouthernRailway] Southern 390399 "Ortner's 10,000th Rapid Discharge Car" Questions I've only seen one photo of the 10,000th Rapid Discharge Car, Southern 390399: http://southern.railfan.net/ties/1980/80-11/ortner.html In this photo the car appears to be marked with only the large SOUTHERN name and numbers on the side, along with the tagline "Ortner's 10,000th Rapid Discharge Car". This photo is pretty low resolution, but it doesn't appear to show any of the typical data that appears on other cars in the 390xxx series, such as the consolidated stencil, dimensional data or discharge plunger instructions as seen on adjacent car 390423. A company called Eastern Seaboard Models made a limited run of N scale models of this car many years ago. Their version of the car includes all the data that would typically be found on the other cars in the series. I asked Eastern Seaboard Models if they still had any of the research materials used to create the artwork or if they could put me in touch with the person who prepared the artwork for them. Here is a website showing a couple photos of their model: https://www.trovestar.com/generic/zoom.php?id=138042 So my questions are: Did this car receive all the data markings at some point after the publicity photo was taken in 1980? How long did it remain in this paint scheme? -- Ryan Harris Fort Worth, TX
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Re: Southern Railway Aggregate Hoppers
George Eichelberger
Ryan:
The Southern was rather particular about how its rolling stock was painted and lettered. It produced stencil drawings for different car types and updated drawings as lettering standards changed. It’s important to understand that “stencil” drawings were only intended to show where individual stencils were to be placed on the equipment, each and every stencil; monogram, dim data, road names and numbers, etc. had their own drawing to be used to cut the stencils. Although the different sizes of the post 1960 “block” lettering were proportionally different (i.e. same design, just different sizes) the earlier “Roman” style letters had individual drawings for different sizes. Things such as letter thickness, width, style of serifs and spacing could vary. Early (hand painted) passenger car lettering was quite ornate. Later “block” style passenger lettering, sometime called “streamlined” lettering was much simpler. (I have mentioned before, the Southern did not have a lettering standard when the 1941 “Tennessean” and “Southerner” were being built at P-S. Southern simply used the same 7 inch lettering EMD had developed for the E-6s.) Quite a few lettering drawings, the round monogram (never called a “logo”!) and placement drawings were published in the SRHA 40’ and 50’ (1938-1982) box car books. The 50’ book is still available from SRHA (maybe 12 left?) The 40’ book is long out of print but a new version that includes all of the various 40’ rebuilds is about 60% done. (When time permits, we will publish a list of all the drawings we have scanned. When we get the new networked drive set up, we will make digital versions available at nominal pricew.) Ike PS About the best Southern decals produced and sold today are from Hubert Mask at Mask Island. SRHA has provided Hubert with detailed drawings of many of his decal sets.
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Southern 390399 "Ortner's 10,000th Rapid Discharge Car" Questions
I've only seen one photo of the 10,000th Rapid Discharge Car, Southern 390399:
http://southern.railfan.net/ties/1980/80-11/ortner.html In this photo the car appears to be marked with only the large SOUTHERN name and numbers on the side, along with the tagline "Ortner's 10,000th Rapid Discharge Car". This photo is pretty low resolution, but it doesn't appear to show any of the typical data that appears on other cars in the 390xxx series, such as the consolidated stencil, dimensional data or discharge plunger instructions as seen on adjacent car 390423. A company called Eastern Seaboard Models made a limited run of N scale models of this car many years ago. Their version of the car includes all the data that would typically be found on the other cars in the series. I asked Eastern Seaboard Models if they still had any of the research materials used to create the artwork or if they could put me in touch with the person who prepared the artwork for them. Here is a website showing a couple photos of their model: https://www.trovestar.com/generic/zoom.php?id=138042 So my questions are: Did this car receive all the data markings at some point after the publicity photo was taken in 1980? How long did it remain in this paint scheme? -- Ryan Harris Fort Worth, TX
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Re: Southern Railway Aggregate Hoppers
These cars have the thin large "SOUTHERN" and numerals on the sides of the car similar to the three bay hoppers in the 360xxx series. This thin style of letters and numbers is difficult to pin down.
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Re: Mike's model railroad, was Re: [SouthernRailway] Compendium Southern Employee Timetables
Jack:
I will be doing this in HO Scale. I have some of the Sanborn maps that I have been able to see online and my friend Jim King is also helping me out as well as Gordon from the Murphy Branch group.io.
Mike
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2019 20:50 To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@southernrailway.groups.io> Subject: Mike's model railroad, was Re: [SouthernRailway] Compendium Southern Employee Timetables <<
The reason is I am going to be building the Murphy Branch and the Main line from Knoxville to Spencer. I know this is a lot information. If there's other out there that can help with this information to include industries along these routes please feel free
to email me directly. I have live on the Murphy Branch and other Southern RR routes and just love what they did and want build the best representation of this beautiful railroad.
Mike Roderick
>>
That's pretty ambitious. Are you talking HO, N, or some other scale? Any particular places which you are focusing on? Time period?
My knowledge of the area is not great, but if I see anything relevant, I'll pass it on.
Jack Wyatt
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An auto parts example and request for information
George Eichelberger
I have attached one of many items in the SRHA archives that document Southern's business carrying auto parts. Because of the Ford and GM assembly plants in Atlanta, Southern participated in equipment "pools" for shipments from various parts plants. Pooled cars were assigned to specific locations, many times because they were specially equipped to handle whatever was produced there.
Cars could be loaded for any assembly plant. Revenue mileage was equalized by the number of cars each road had in the pool. Attached is a July 16, 1964 memo about 50' cars being replaced by Hy-cube cars for the Chevrolet plant inFlint, MI. If anyone has any knowledge or information on auto parts or finished auto movements they can share, please ket me know. Ike
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Re: Periods after names
Cohen Bob
Southern was nowhere near unique for this little idiom. The B&O used it on the names of stations' signs at the various locations as noted on many early photographs and likely even much later.
Bob Cohen
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Re: Richmond & Danville "Despatch"
Well Bill, then hooray for tradition! Doug
On Monday, November 18, 2019, 04:22:22 PM EST, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:
No, but it seems to me to have been a common convention at the turn of the last century. And the Wall Street Journal still places a period at the end of its title, even on the app on my cell phone, and even after being purchased by Rupert Murdoch. —Bill😱
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Re: Richmond & Danville "Despatch"
Bill Schafer
No, but it seems to me to have been a common convention at the turn of the last century. And the Wall Street Journal still places a period at the end of its title, even on the app on my cell phone, and even after being purchased by Rupert Murdoch.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
—Bill😱
On Nov 18, 2019, at 12:31, Doug Alexander <doug_alexander@...> wrote:
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Re: Richmond & Danville "Despatch"
Did you ever get an answer to your "period question"? I have noticed that on a lot of advertising of the era. I think that the last holdout, naturally, was the Wall Street Journal, which ran a period after the word "Journal" well into the 1990s. Doug Alexander Model Trains Department HobbyTownUSA 840 Barrett Parkway NW Kennesaw, GA 30144 Main 770-426-8800 Cell 404-272-2986
On Monday, October 15, 2018, 08:13:04 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
I “get” the two spellings but why did the railroad(s) chose to use the archaic version on car sides but not the contract wording? …..I’ll go with Bill Schafer’s “Victorian” era concept. Older items in the SR Presidents’ files use what could be considered archaic words and sentence structure quite often. Here is another one, I have asked before. Why did the Southern (and other railroads) put a “.” after their roadname on passenger equipment? Here is a superb drawing of a Southern coach dated September 8, 1900. The style disappeared from drawings not long after. The punctuation does not show on freight cars, including the two 1897 drawings in the archives. Ike PS If we had the highest quality prints made we could get of this coach, a wide vestibule version, a combine and a mail and baggage car, would anyone be interested in buying copies to support the SRHA archives?  On Oct 15, 2018, at 6:28 PM, darrell2010 via Groups.Io <darrell2010@...> wrote: Ike, Per a dictionary, "despatch" has the same meaning as "dispatch", but was a common spelling in the 19th century before dispatch became the more common spelling. Darrell Sawyer
On Monday, October 15, 2018, 3:35:17 PM MDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Until I learn how to cut some of the "thread" material out of messages, I'll make this separate. Looking around in the SRHA digital files for additional info on the SR Arrow monogram, I found the attached stencil scheme for Southern vent box cars from 1897. The "billboard" stencil uses new "SR" initials but also includes "R&D Despatch" negotiated Aug 1, 1887. (Contract No 28, the cover and page 1 are attached. I can post the other six pages if anyone is interested.) One question I cannot find an answer for.....why is "dispatch" spelled "despatch" here and on "Atlantic Coast Despatch" (PRR/ACL)? from the same period? Note the cover and first page of the contract use "dispatch" spelling. Ike Ike
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Re: Cooling Pipes on Southern E-6s
Ike,
I'm going through my enormous backlog of emails and happened on this. I don't know if you found a solution, but if not, why not call the nice ladies at Catzpaw in Griffin. They do 3-D printing, they might could gin up something for you.
Cheers!
Doug
On Friday, November 2, 2018, 04:15:44 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
I have always liked how the Southern's modified E-6s looked.. As soon as I saw the Proto 2000 E-6s I have wanted to modify one in the same style.
The pier panels on the body castings Athern uses in their Fs are almost precisely the same (correct) dimension as the panels on the E-6s. After quite a bit of very careful cutting and filing, I am reasonably happy (see photo) with the result. In addition to the modified sides, the roof mounted aftercooler pipes are one of the "signature" parts of the units. BUT, there is a problem. All other piping on Es and Fs is just piping, the E-6s have 4x4" cooling fins. I can cut dozens of fins from plastic or brass, then drill and mount them on pipes but I am not certain that can be done with the accuracy and appearance anything mounted on a diesel's roof needs. Any ideas? Ike
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List of Southern SCPs and CPs
George Eichelberger
Thanks to Rick Bell, a list of Southern "SCPs" (Special Car Programs) and the later "CP" (Car Programs) is on the "Public" part of the SRHA file server. Use the same URL, etc. described for the Pullman files to download the material. (The file server does not have a "viewer" function so you must download and view files on your PC.)
"Special Car Program" IDs were given to all freight and passenger car rebuild and modification programs until the system changed to just "car programs" in 1971. Locos used a different system, cars used for auto parts or finished car service had their own "ACP" (Auto Car Program). SCP and CP IDs are the "key" to finding many Mechanical Dept or Hayne or Coster Shop files in the SRHA archives. Accounting info, specifications, work to be performed, etc. were filed under their SCP or CP numbers. Archives volunteers still have a large amount of work to locate and organize the files we have. (It is too early in the process to respond to requests for information. If anyone is particularly interested in something, everything is accessible at our work sessions.) "New Car Programs" (NCP) files are another very important part of the archives. SRHA member Scott Chatfield is "deep" into organizing those files now. All of the SRHA archives work sessions are posted on the SRHA web home page, the 2020 dates will be set soon. (Volunteer time or cash donations for archives supplies and equipment are always welcome.) Ike
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Re: Mike's model railroad
George Eichelberger
Mike:
There is a lot (!) of material available on the S Line and Murphy branch but I have to ask; How much detail are you going to model? My own layout covers only from Murphy Jct to Old Fort (an old photo of part of Asheville Yard is attached) but I think I’d need two lifetimes to finish even that. If you are looking for data on specific locations, let us know….. (We should move this discussion to the ModelingtheSouthern@groups.io.) Ike PS The plan is to do a clinic at the upcoming CCB RPM on using prototype information to do a “Prototype Model” of a particular piece of railroad, Murphy to Old Fort in this example. 
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Re: Mike's model railroad, was Re: [SouthernRailway] Compendium Southern Employee Timetables
I'm modeling that line, but just the Spencer to Clinchcross portion. I've found the "Business Tracks and Stations Not Shown in Station Columns" in the employee timetable to be very helpful.
Also, look at the county GIS web sites. The one for Catawba County is particularly helpful, with very easy access to deed history which sometimes tells you who used to own the property in question. Tim Rumph Lancaster, SC
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Re: Southern SD-45's
Jason Greene
Looks like the flag is wrapped around the firecracker. Guess it’s all right time and right angle.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Jason Greene
On Nov 17, 2019, at 1:18 PM, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:
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Mike's model railroad, was Re: [SouthernRailway] Compendium Southern Employee Timetables
C J Wyatt
<< The reason is I am going to be building the Murphy Branch and the Main line from Knoxville to Spencer. I know this is a lot information. If there's other out there that can help with this information to include industries along these routes please feel free
to email me directly. I have live on the Murphy Branch and other Southern RR routes and just love what they did and want build the best representation of this beautiful railroad.
Mike Roderick >> That's pretty ambitious. Are you talking HO, N, or some other scale? Any particular places which you are focusing on? Time period? My knowledge of the area is not great, but if I see anything relevant, I'll pass it on. Jack Wyatt
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Re: Southern SD-45's
Bob,
Thanks for the answer! This was a hard one to track down with a lot of internet searches. There are so few pictures that show the conductors side of the locomotive. I first noticed it on a picture I had been shown in Spencer and this was the first time I really noticed it. After that I started researching it and photos proved elusive at best. I for one would like to see other photos of this and some really nice roof shots.
James Wall Rural Hall, NC
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