Date   

locked Re: The SCL Merger

Robert Hanson
 

I think that such rights were rendered redundant by the purchase of the Georgia Northern.  The Southern upgraded a portion of the road so that they could run trains from Albany over to Sparks, GA (just below Tifton on the GS&F) thus bypassing both Atlanta and Macon.

This was in the works at the time of the merger and was accomplished by 1968.

I don't know, but this seems to be the case.

Bob






-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2020 10:47 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The SCL Merger

Trackage rights for the CG from Albany to Tifton were apparently agreed to by SCL but not done?

Ike


On Jan 2, 2020, at 10:44 AM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

To this day I wonder how many ICC commissioners the ACL and SAL paid off to get that kind of ruling.

It blows my mind that they were able to get the merger approved without giving up anything in the way of preserving competition.

I would have thought that they would have been forced to sell one of their Savannah-Jacksonville and Jacksonville-Tampa main lines along with other concessions elsewhere.

Just incredible.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2020 9:30 am
Subject: [SouthernRailway] The SCL Merger

Yet another major file(s) in the SRHA archives concern the Seaboard Coast Line merger in the mid 60s. In addition to competition from the ACL and SAL combination, the Southern was interested in improving their access to SCL traffic in Jacksonville (there was never any long haul interchange with the ACL there), Southern wanted to get to Tampa because of its port facilities and to have access to phosphate traffic out of Florida's "Bone Valley".

The courts quite consistently found in favor of ACL/SAL and ag ainst the Southern, FEC and GM&O (!). The various court battles, filings, local newspaper and editorial efforts make for a large file. Some findings by the ICC and courts against the Southern are inexplicable, it appears only one was overturned that allowed Southern to interchange cars with SCL in Jacksonville.

Giving up the trackage rights from Hardeeville to Jacksonville and to Portsmouth, VA are stories themselves. Why the Southern did not get the Tampa Northern to give it access to Tampa and the BV from the Palatka line are not explained except that SCL fought hard against it and the Florida courts appear to have been quite pro SCL.

A related file in the archives is on the little known plans for the Florida Phosphate Railroad that would have given the phosphate people their own line to Port Manatee. SCL would not allow a crossing at grade, a bridge over the Coast Line would have been too close to Tampa Bay to stop the heavy (!) phosphate trains.

Ike









locked Re: The SCL Merger

George Eichelberger
 

Trackage rights for the CG from Albany to Tifton were apparently agreed to by SCL but not done?

Ike


On Jan 2, 2020, at 10:44 AM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

To this day I wonder how many ICC commissioners the ACL and SAL paid off to get that kind of ruling.

It blows my mind that they were able to get the merger approved without giving up anything in the way of preserving competition.

I would have thought that they would have been forced to sell one of their Savannah-Jacksonville and Jacksonville-Tampa main lines along with other concessions elsewhere.

Just incredible.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2020 9:30 am
Subject: [SouthernRailway] The SCL Merger

Yet another major file(s) in the SRHA archives concern the Seaboard Coast Line merger in the mid 60s. In addition to competition from the ACL and SAL combination, the Southern was interested in improving their access to SCL traffic in Jacksonville (there was never any long haul interchange with the ACL there), Southern wanted to get to Tampa because of its port facilities and to have access to phosphate traffic out of Florida's "Bone Valley".

The courts quite consistently found in favor of ACL/SAL and ag ainst the Southern, FEC and GM&O (!). The various court battles, filings, local newspaper and editorial efforts make for a large file. Some findings by the ICC and courts against the Southern are inexplicable, it appears only one was overturned that allowed Southern to interchange cars with SCL in Jacksonville.

Giving up the trackage rights from Hardeeville to Jacksonville and to Portsmouth, VA are stories themselves. Why the Southern did not get the Tampa Northern to give it access to Tampa and the BV from the Palatka line are not explained except that SCL fought hard against it and the Florida courts appear to have been quite pro SCL.

A related file in the archives is on the little known plans for the Florida Phosphate Railroad that would have given the phosphate people their own line to Port Manatee. SCL would not allow a crossing at grade, a bridge over the Coast Line would have been too close to Tampa Bay to stop the heavy (!) phosphate trains.

Ike









locked Re: The SCL Merger

Robert Hanson
 

To this day I wonder how many ICC commissioners the ACL and SAL paid off to get that kind of ruling.

It blows my mind that they were able to get the merger approved without giving up anything in the way of preserving competition.

I would have thought that they would have been forced to sell one of their Savannah-Jacksonville and Jacksonville-Tampa main lines along with other concessions elsewhere.

Just incredible.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2020 9:30 am
Subject: [SouthernRailway] The SCL Merger

Yet another major file(s) in the SRHA archives concern the Seaboard Coast Line merger in the mid 60s. In addition to competition from the ACL and SAL combination, the Southern was interested in improving their access to SCL traffic in Jacksonville (there was never any long haul interchange with the ACL there), Southern wanted to get to Tampa because of its port facilities and to have access to phosphate traffic out of Florida's "Bone Valley".

The courts quite consistently found in favor of ACL/SAL and ag ainst the Southern, FEC and GM&O (!). The various court battles, filings, local newspaper and editorial efforts make for a large file. Some findings by the ICC and courts against the Southern are inexplicable, it appears only one was overturned that allowed Southern to interchange cars with SCL in Jacksonville.

Giving up the trackage rights from Hardeeville to Jacksonville and to Portsmouth, VA are stories themselves. Why the Southern did not get the Tampa Northern to give it access to Tampa and the BV from the Palatka line are not explained except that SCL fought hard against it and the Florida courts appear to have been quite pro SCL.

A related file in the archives is on the little known plans for the Florida Phosphate Railroad that would have given the phosphate people their own line to Port Manatee. SCL would not allow a crossing at grade, a bridge over the Coast Line would have been too close to Tampa Bay to stop the heavy (!) phosphate trains.

Ike








locked The SCL Merger

George Eichelberger
 

Yet another major file(s) in the SRHA archives concern the Seaboard Coast Line merger in the mid 60s. In addition to competition from the ACL and SAL combination, the Southern was interested in improving their access to SCL traffic in Jacksonville (there was never any long haul interchange with the ACL there), Southern wanted to get to Tampa because of its port facilities and to have access to phosphate traffic out of Florida's "Bone Valley".

The courts quite consistently found in favor of ACL/SAL and ag ainst the Southern, FEC and GM&O (!). The various court battles, filings, local newspaper and editorial efforts make for a large file. Some findings by the ICC and courts against the Southern are inexplicable, it appears only one was overturned that allowed Southern to interchange cars with SCL in Jacksonville.

Giving up the trackage rights from Hardeeville to Jacksonville and to Portsmouth, VA are stories themselves. Why the Southern did not get the Tampa Northern to give it access to Tampa and the BV from the Palatka line are not explained except that SCL fought hard against it and the Florida courts appear to have been quite pro SCL.

A related file in the archives is on the little known plans for the Florida Phosphate Railroad that would have given the phosphate people their own line to Port Manatee. SCL would not allow a crossing at grade, a bridge over the Coast Line would have been too close to Tampa Bay to stop the heavy (!) phosphate trains.

Ike







locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

Robert Hanson
 

Brosnan was both a genius and a lunatic at the same time.

He was a genius because of his many ideas and inventions that enabled the Southern - and the railroad industry in general - to mechanize and consolidate many functions in order to save money and survive the economic horror that was the late 60's and seventies prior to deregulation.

He was a lunatic because he had no people skills - absolutely none - and was blinded by the idea that whatever he did was right, even after it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was wrong.

He was also vindictive as hell.

And woe betide anyone who ever pointed out to him why he was wrong.  They were usually immediately unemployed.

I did not work for the Southern during Brosnan's administration, but I got there while there were many who had and they all had DWB stories to tell.  None of them pleasant, but all of them interesting.

I recommend the two-volume biography of Brosnan to anyone who is interested in knowing about the man.  I expected it to be a valentine to Brosnan but found that Mr. Morgret, who worked under Brosnan and knew him fairly well, presented the man pretty much as he was - warts and all.

Highly recommend this book, if you can locate a copy.

My two cents worth, and maybe a bit more.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA




-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney Shu <rodshu@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Jan 1, 2020 10:23 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

Ike:
Wow!   Thank you so much for your effort in finding this information. Reading this response written over 50 years ago means a great deal to me.   I doubt that it got him out of the dog house with Mr. Brosnan, but it looked like a good try to me.
 
Rodney
 
 
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: George Eichelberger
Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2020 12:34 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
Rodney:
 
We look forward to you (everyone on SR@groups.io, actually) making it to one of our archives work sessions. They are a combination of actual work, just looking through the archives and always include a heavy dose of simply meeting and talking to everyone.
 
It’s pretty much a “matter of fact” style but I’ve attached a note from your father responding to Brosnan’s comments on the August 10, 1966 Morning Report.
 
Ike
 
PS We have a bit of an “event” occurring at TVRM before the January work session (www.srha.net). NS official car No. 8 will arrive (by truck) from Gateway Rail Car at Madison, IL. Three SRHA/TVRM members donated to purchase the car from a private owner and move it to Chattanooga. The plan is to restore the car to Southern Railway official car No.5 and put it in service at TVRM. Extensive work was done on the car to bring it up to Amtrak standards. That work will be completed with new HEP, brake and mechanical systems. (Seeing an NS office car on an Interstate highway from IL to Chattanooga will be a photo worthy event. We’ll publish the exact date, tentatively Jan 6th when it’s known.)
 
We have located documentation dating back to when Hayne Shop converted the car from Pullman “Point Richmond” it follows the car to its disposition by NS. Assistance with donations for the restoration, technical/historical expertise and labor are certainly welcome.
 
 
 
 
 
On Jan 1, 2020, at 11:29 AM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:
 
Thanks for the response Ike.  I enjoy following the communications on the "Group".
 
Mr. Brosnan was quite a man.  I do have some stories about things that took place back then.  One quick one that comes to mind is the time that John Rust fired my father in the late '50s while he was Superintendent at Greensboro.  I guess when Mr. B found out about it, he told Rust not to do it. When he called my father their conversation was as if his firing had never happened. 
 
I have always wanted to attend one of the SRHS work days. Hope to see you then in Chattanooga.
 
Rodney 
 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 1:33 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
Rodney:
 
Please don’t be concerned….when you read the responses that always follow Brosnan’s margin notes, you see 99.99% of whatever the problem was, was beyond anyone’s control. “Thick skin” must have been standard issue by the Storekeeper to anyone in management. I will see if the file has a response to Brosnan's 8-29-66 missive.
 
Did you father tell you any DWB stories or stories from the Almon meetings? I retired from NS five years ago and at NS management meetings, people still referred to the DWB meeting style. (Although I have a hard time believing he had men stand on their chairs while he berated, and sometimes fired, them.)
 
If you are ever near Chattanooga, you might scan the files to see if there are more items to/from “PCS”.
 
Ike
 
 
 
On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:
 
The "PCS" was my father, Paul Shu, General Manager - Western Lines in 1966.  You had to be pretty thicked skinned in those days.  
 
Rodney Shu
 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 10:08 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.
 
The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.
 
We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.
 
Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….
 
Ike
 
<DWB 8-28-66.jpeg>
 
<DWB 8-29-66.jpeg>
 
 
 
 


locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

Rodney Shu
 

Ike:

Wow!   Thank you so much for your effort in finding this information. Reading this response written over 50 years ago means a great deal to me.   I doubt that it got him out of the dog house with Mr. Brosnan, but it looked like a good try to me.

 

Rodney

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: George Eichelberger
Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2020 12:34 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

 

Rodney:

 

We look forward to you (everyone on SR@groups.io, actually) making it to one of our archives work sessions. They are a combination of actual work, just looking through the archives and always include a heavy dose of simply meeting and talking to everyone.

 

It’s pretty much a “matter of fact” style but I’ve attached a note from your father responding to Brosnan’s comments on the August 10, 1966 Morning Report.

 

Ike

 

PS We have a bit of an “event” occurring at TVRM before the January work session (www.srha.net). NS official car No. 8 will arrive (by truck) from Gateway Rail Car at Madison, IL. Three SRHA/TVRM members donated to purchase the car from a private owner and move it to Chattanooga. The plan is to restore the car to Southern Railway official car No.5 and put it in service at TVRM. Extensive work was done on the car to bring it up to Amtrak standards. That work will be completed with new HEP, brake and mechanical systems. (Seeing an NS office car on an Interstate highway from IL to Chattanooga will be a photo worthy event. We’ll publish the exact date, tentatively Jan 6th when it’s known.)

 

We have located documentation dating back to when Hayne Shop converted the car from Pullman “Point Richmond” it follows the car to its disposition by NS. Assistance with donations for the restoration, technical/historical expertise and labor are certainly welcome.

 

 

 

 

 

On Jan 1, 2020, at 11:29 AM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

 

Thanks for the response Ike.  I enjoy following the communications on the "Group".

 

Mr. Brosnan was quite a man.  I do have some stories about things that took place back then.  One quick one that comes to mind is the time that John Rust fired my father in the late '50s while he was Superintendent at Greensboro.  I guess when Mr. B found out about it, he told Rust not to do it. When he called my father their conversation was as if his firing had never happened. 

 

I have always wanted to attend one of the SRHS work days. Hope to see you then in Chattanooga.

 

Rodney 

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 1:33 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

 

Rodney:

 

Please don’t be concerned….when you read the responses that always follow Brosnan’s margin notes, you see 99.99% of whatever the problem was, was beyond anyone’s control. “Thick skin” must have been standard issue by the Storekeeper to anyone in management. I will see if the file has a response to Brosnan's 8-29-66 missive.

 

Did you father tell you any DWB stories or stories from the Almon meetings? I retired from NS five years ago and at NS management meetings, people still referred to the DWB meeting style. (Although I have a hard time believing he had men stand on their chairs while he berated, and sometimes fired, them.)

 

If you are ever near Chattanooga, you might scan the files to see if there are more items to/from “PCS”.

 

Ike

 

 

 

On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

 

The "PCS" was my father, Paul Shu, General Manager - Western Lines in 1966.  You had to be pretty thicked skinned in those days.  

 

Rodney Shu

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 10:08 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

 

There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.

 

The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.

 

We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.

 

Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….

 

Ike

 

<DWB 8-28-66.jpeg>

 

<DWB 8-29-66.jpeg>

 

 

 

 


locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

George Eichelberger
 

Rodney:

We look forward to you (everyone on SR@groups.io, actually) making it to one of our archives work sessions. They are a combination of actual work, just looking through the archives and always include a heavy dose of simply meeting and talking to everyone.

It’s pretty much a “matter of fact” style but I’ve attached a note from your father responding to Brosnan’s comments on the August 10, 1966 Morning Report.

Ike

PS We have a bit of an “event” occurring at TVRM before the January work session (www.srha.net). NS official car No. 8 will arrive (by truck) from Gateway Rail Car at Madison, IL. Three SRHA/TVRM members donated to purchase the car from a private owner and move it to Chattanooga. The plan is to restore the car to Southern Railway official car No.5 and put it in service at TVRM. Extensive work was done on the car to bring it up to Amtrak standards. That work will be completed with new HEP, brake and mechanical systems. (Seeing an NS office car on an Interstate highway from IL to Chattanooga will be a photo worthy event. We’ll publish the exact date, tentatively Jan 6th when it’s known.)

We have located documentation dating back to when Hayne Shop converted the car from Pullman “Point Richmond” it follows the car to its disposition by NS. Assistance with donations for the restoration, technical/historical expertise and labor are certainly welcome.





On Jan 1, 2020, at 11:29 AM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

Thanks for the response Ike.  I enjoy following the communications on the "Group".

Mr. Brosnan was quite a man.  I do have some stories about things that took place back then.  One quick one that comes to mind is the time that John Rust fired my father in the late '50s while he was Superintendent at Greensboro.  I guess when Mr. B found out about it, he told Rust not to do it. When he called my father their conversation was as if his firing had never happened. 
 
I have always wanted to attend one of the SRHS work days. Hope to see you then in Chattanooga.

Rodney 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 1:33 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
Rodney:

Please don’t be concerned….when you read the responses that always follow Brosnan’s margin notes, you see 99.99% of whatever the problem was, was beyond anyone’s control. “Thick skin” must have been standard issue by the Storekeeper to anyone in management. I will see if the file has a response to Brosnan's 8-29-66 missive.

Did you father tell you any DWB stories or stories from the Almon meetings? I retired from NS five years ago and at NS management meetings, people still referred to the DWB meeting style. (Although I have a hard time believing he had men stand on their chairs while he berated, and sometimes fired, them.)

If you are ever near Chattanooga, you might scan the files to see if there are more items to/from “PCS”.

Ike



On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

The "PCS" was my father, Paul Shu, General Manager - Western Lines in 1966.  You had to be pretty thicked skinned in those days.  

Rodney Shu


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 10:08 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.

The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.

We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.

Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….

Ike

<DWB 8-28-66.jpeg>

<DWB 8-29-66.jpeg>




locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

Carl Ardrey
 

I worked for L H Smith who was GM, Eastern Lines, in the late '80's.  He was a protégé of DWB and if it was anything like working for LHS good lord.  I went to a staff meeting in Atlanta in 1988 and felt like I was in Almond.  He had me squirming and I wasn't even a target.
CEA

On January 1, 2020 at 10:29 AM Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

Thanks for the response Ike.  I enjoy following the communications on the "Group".

Mr. Brosnan was quite a man.  I do have some stories about things that took place back then.  One quick one that comes to mind is the time that John Rust fired my father in the late '50s while he was Superintendent at Greensboro.  I guess when Mr. B found out about it, he told Rust not to do it. When he called my father their conversation was as if his firing had never happened. 
 
I have always wanted to attend one of the SRHS work days. Hope to see you then in Chattanooga.

Rodney 
 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 1:33 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
Rodney:

Please don’t be concerned….when you read the responses that always follow Brosnan’s margin notes, you see 99.99% of whatever the problem was, was beyond anyone’s control. “Thick skin” must have been standard issue by the Storekeeper to anyone in management. I will see if the file has a response to Brosnan's 8-29-66 missive.

Did you father tell you any DWB stories or stories from the Almon meetings? I retired from NS five years ago and at NS management meetings, people still referred to the DWB meeting style. (Although I have a hard time believing he had men stand on their chairs while he berated, and sometimes fired, them.)

If you are ever near Chattanooga, you might scan the files to see if there are more items to/from “PCS”.

Ike



On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Rodney Shu < rodshu@...> wrote:

The "PCS" was my father, Paul Shu, General Manager - Western Lines in 1966.  You had to be pretty thicked skinned in those days.  

Rodney Shu
 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 10:08 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.

The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.

We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.

Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….

Ike

<DWB 8-28-66.jpeg>

<DWB 8-29-66.jpeg>



 


locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

Rodney Shu
 

Thanks for the response Ike.  I enjoy following the communications on the "Group".

Mr. Brosnan was quite a man.  I do have some stories about things that took place back then.  One quick one that comes to mind is the time that John Rust fired my father in the late '50s while he was Superintendent at Greensboro.  I guess when Mr. B found out about it, he told Rust not to do it. When he called my father their conversation was as if his firing had never happened. 
 
I have always wanted to attend one of the SRHS work days. Hope to see you then in Chattanooga.

Rodney 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 1:33 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
Rodney:

Please don’t be concerned….when you read the responses that always follow Brosnan’s margin notes, you see 99.99% of whatever the problem was, was beyond anyone’s control. “Thick skin” must have been standard issue by the Storekeeper to anyone in management. I will see if the file has a response to Brosnan's 8-29-66 missive.

Did you father tell you any DWB stories or stories from the Almon meetings? I retired from NS five years ago and at NS management meetings, people still referred to the DWB meeting style. (Although I have a hard time believing he had men stand on their chairs while he berated, and sometimes fired, them.)

If you are ever near Chattanooga, you might scan the files to see if there are more items to/from “PCS”.

Ike



On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

The "PCS" was my father, Paul Shu, General Manager - Western Lines in 1966.  You had to be pretty thicked skinned in those days.  

Rodney Shu


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 10:08 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.

The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.

We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.

Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….

Ike

<DWB 8-28-66.jpeg>

<DWB 8-29-66.jpeg>



locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

George Eichelberger
 

Rodney:

Please don’t be concerned….when you read the responses that always follow Brosnan’s margin notes, you see 99.99% of whatever the problem was, was beyond anyone’s control. “Thick skin” must have been standard issue by the Storekeeper to anyone in management. I will see if the file has a response to Brosnan's 8-29-66 missive.

Did you father tell you any DWB stories or stories from the Almon meetings? I retired from NS five years ago and at NS management meetings, people still referred to the DWB meeting style. (Although I have a hard time believing he had men stand on their chairs while he berated, and sometimes fired, them.)

If you are ever near Chattanooga, you might scan the files to see if there are more items to/from “PCS”.

Ike



On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

The "PCS" was my father, Paul Shu, General Manager - Western Lines in 1966.  You had to be pretty thicked skinned in those days.  

Rodney Shu


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 10:08 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.

The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.

We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.

Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….

Ike

<DWB 8-28-66.jpeg>

<DWB 8-29-66.jpeg>



locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

Rodney Shu
 

The "PCS" was my father, Paul Shu, General Manager - Western Lines in 1966.  You had to be pretty thicked skinned in those days.  

Rodney Shu


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 10:08 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.

The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.

We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.

Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….

Ike




locked D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

George Eichelberger
 

There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.

The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.

We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.

Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….

Ike




locked Ralph Budd letter and report to the SEPC, July, 1941

George Eichelberger
 

From the SRHA Archives:

The attached letter from Ralph Budd to the Chairman of the “Southeastern Railroad Presidents’ Conference” may predate orders from the “Office of Defense Transportation” (ODT) telling railroads that had to eliminate certain passenger trains to make equipment available for wartime transportation and travel.

The letter, and attachment, was forwarded to “Member Roads” by Chairman Fitzgerald Hall of the NC&StL on July 12.

(There are extensive files on the SEPC in the SRHA archives. In today’s anti-trust environment, much of their work would probably be illegal but in the 1930s and 40s, the southeastern rail Presidents cooperated on many business decisions, an agreement to NOT air condition their passenger trains being one example. The SAL, in bankruptcy and run by trustees broke the agreement by asking the Pullman Co. to equip the “Orange Blossom Special”. That forced the ACL to adopt AC for their Florida trains…explained in an ACL letter to the SEPC.)

Ike

PS As always, membership in the Southern Railway Historical Association (www.srha.net) is open to anyone interested in the Southern Railway System. Donations to help organize and catalog archives material are needed and welsome.






locked Re: Samuel Spencer

Cohen Bob
 

Regarding paranormal sightings and such:

While I believe that such things may in fact exist, there usually is a "reason" for their appearance at a location, like the person died there or met an untimely end at that locale. I have never personally experienced such things, but there's always a first time.

Spencer did meet an untimely (and unexpected) end but it was in a lonely little spot about 10 or 12 miles south of Lynchburg, Virginia and nowhere near his happy hunting grounds in Georgia. However, if he just plays tricks at Jekyll Island, maybe that tells us a little about his personality.

Hey, I dunno either about most of the specifics of the man, other than he was very capable financially-knowledge wise, and was tutored by the Morgan group, and that ought to tell us a little something.

I do know he is a permanent resident in a prominent cemetery in Washington, DC, I know that.

Bob Cohen


locked Re: Southern accounting and billing terminology questions

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Sounds like what we called "memo billing" in the' 80s.  A non-revenue waybill.

As for B/L and Bs/L, that's bill and bills of lading.


Scott Chatfield


A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:
For anyone who may know early 20th century Southern Railway billing terminology:

I found a reference in a 1920's era note about "card billing" vs commercial billing for moving a Southern-owned shortline's locomotives to Spencer for repairs.  I'm assuming that card billing is what is done for a railroads own locomotives that are being moved in rather than assigned to a train. The superintendent also requested that the storekeeper provide the B/L for this engine and the Bs/L for future engines transported for repairs by the Southern.  I have no idea what that short hand means.

Can anyone enlighten me on the terminology and billing practices for the 1920's Southern Railway?  Is that terminology still in place in more recent times?

Dave
--

Sent from David Bott's desktop pc


locked Southern accounting and billing terminology questions

A&Y Dave in MD
 

For anyone who may know early 20th century Southern Railway billing terminology:

I found a reference in a 1920's era note about "card billing" vs commercial billing for moving a Southern-owned shortline's locomotives to Spencer for repairs.  I'm assuming that card billing is what is done for a railroads own locomotives that are being moved in rather than assigned to a train. The superintendent also requested that the storekeeper provide the B/L for this engine and the Bs/L for future engines transported for repairs by the Southern.  I have no idea what that short hand means.

Can anyone enlighten me on the terminology and billing practices for the 1920's Southern Railway?  Is that terminology still in place in more recent times?

Dave
--

Sent from David Bott's desktop pc


locked Re: Southeastern Railway Museum

Dave Queener
 

David,

Thank you for posting the pics. I did download them and I think several of them--the E-unit and SR wooden cab pics in particular--will come in handy for model-making. Thanks so much for posting these.

Yours,

Dave Queener
Knoxville, TN

On 12/15/2019 8:44 PM, David Friedlander wrote:
All,

I did not make it to Saltville to see the 4-4-0 locomotive, but thanks for letting me know it is there.

It looks like I have forgotten come back here and share the photos I took at the Southeastern Railway Museum in Duluth, GA. I spent perhaps 4 or 5 hours there about 943 photos, mostly for modeling purposes down the road for myself and maybe for others who have interest in things like the Amtrak Slumbercoach. I was surprised at how much I was allowed to walk through.

In any case, I've compiled them all into a Google Drive. It should be public for anyone who has the link. I don't plan on taking it down anytime soon. Regardless, I think you should be able to download any photos you want to save off for your modeling in case it somehow disappears.


Enjoy.

Happy Holidays,
David Friedlander
NY, NY


_._,_._,_
-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
(865) 333-5712  www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com  

Pastor, St. Paul Presbyterian Church
(865) 209-5654  www.StPaulPres.com  


locked Re: Samuel Spencer

George Eichelberger
 

If anyone is seriously interested in doing research on Samuel Spencer, we moved six file cabinets of his papers out of the basement of the 175 Spring St bldg when NS gave the SR Presidents’ files to SRHA. (With sincere thanks to Mr. David Goode!).

They are available for research at our archives at TVRM.

Ike


On Dec 20, 2019, at 10:33 AM, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

Yes, I have been a bit surprised that no one has done a book on Samuel Spencer.

Well we know that he liked quail hunting and he apparently enjoyed hanging around the Jekyll Island Club. Paranormal folklore says that his ghost haunts the place and likes to play tricks on guests such as rearranging things.

I hope someone takes up the project.

Jack Wyatt

On Friday, December 20, 2019, 09:46:13 AM EST, Cohen Bob via Groups.Io <orl96782@...> wrote:


James and all:

As no proper biography exists for Spencer that I have seen, I for one would like to see one, and with it, the answer to your query.

He was obviously a capable person and financially astute and after the B&O evicted him from its presidency after one year where he tried to show where B&O's wonder boy John W. Garrett, had been cooking the books for years, those in control of the B&O stock couldn't handle that and he was cast out after just one year and went into the camp of JP Morgan. Morgan placed him as one of the receivers of the Richmond & Danville RR and became SR's first president in 1894 and remained until he was killed in a rear end accident on his own railroad 10 miles south of Lynchburg in late November 1906.

I, too, have often wondered as to his personality and attitudes, especially towards the B&O. Was he above all that or did he have an inward desire to get back at them/it?

I dunno either. would be nice to see somewhere.

I have heard his papers are somewhere in North Carolina, just waiting for someone to do what we ask here.

Bob Cohen


locked Re: Samuel Spencer

C J Wyatt
 

Yes, I have been a bit surprised that no one has done a book on Samuel Spencer.

Well we know that he liked quail hunting and he apparently enjoyed hanging around the Jekyll Island Club. Paranormal folklore says that his ghost haunts the place and likes to play tricks on guests such as rearranging things.

I hope someone takes up the project.

Jack Wyatt

On Friday, December 20, 2019, 09:46:13 AM EST, Cohen Bob via Groups.Io <orl96782@...> wrote:


James and all:

As no proper biography exists for Spencer that I have seen, I for one would like to see one, and with it, the answer to your query.

He was obviously a capable person and financially astute and after the B&O evicted him from its presidency after one year where he tried to show where B&O's wonder boy John W. Garrett, had been cooking the books for years, those in control of the B&O stock couldn't handle that and he was cast out after just one year and went into the camp of JP Morgan. Morgan placed him as one of the receivers of the Richmond & Danville RR and became SR's first president in 1894 and remained until he was killed in a rear end accident on his own railroad 10 miles south of Lynchburg in late November 1906.

I, too, have often wondered as to his personality and attitudes, especially towards the B&O. Was he above all that or did he have an inward desire to get back at them/it?

I dunno either. would be nice to see somewhere.

I have heard his papers are somewhere in North Carolina, just waiting for someone to do what we ask here.

Bob Cohen


locked Re: Samuel Spencer

Cohen Bob
 

James and all:

As no proper biography exists for Spencer that I have seen, I for one would like to see one, and with it, the answer to your query.

He was obviously a capable person and financially astute and after the B&O evicted him from its presidency after one year where he tried to show where B&O's wonder boy John W. Garrett, had been cooking the books for years, those in control of the B&O stock couldn't handle that and he was cast out after just one year and went into the camp of JP Morgan. Morgan placed him as one of the receivers of the Richmond & Danville RR and became SR's first president in 1894 and remained until he was killed in a rear end accident on his own railroad 10 miles south of Lynchburg in late November 1906.

I, too, have often wondered as to his personality and attitudes, especially towards the B&O. Was he above all that or did he have an inward desire to get back at them/it?

I dunno either. would be nice to see somewhere.

I have heard his papers are somewhere in North Carolina, just waiting for someone to do what we ask here.

Bob Cohen

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