Date   

locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

Charles Powell
 

I also started with Southern after Mr. Brosnan left and worked for for a number of people who had come up under his administration. A lot of them were pretty tough to work for as well. Some years later I came to realize that a lot of those men we were working for in the 1970s  and 1980s had 30 years earlier been the Captains,Lieutenants, and NCOs on the front line kicking German and Japanese butts back to Berlin and Tokyo. They were used to giving orders and failure was not an option.  

Charlie Powell


locked Southern 630 and Automatic Train Stop

George Eichelberger
 

Two more items from the SRHA files.....certainly an unusual subject in 1968, a steam loco and Automatic Train Stop.....

I sent these to "our" Jim Howe (a member of SRHA's  BOD and the Association's Attorney) to make sure the letters were to and from him in 1968. He confirmed it was and added..."Based on the date this is most likely the first thing I did when I joined Southern after leaving SCL, A winner!".

Ike



locked SOU/NS/N&W wood chip hopper kits coming back to HO

Jim King
 

Crosstie Models’ owner, Josh Clark, and I have reached an agreement for Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc. to resume production of the Southern/NS/N&W GS50/G82 large wood chip hopper kit in HO. 

 

This model’s production ended in June 2019 following a successful run so we thought bringing out “Round 2” may spark new market interest.  These kits will be available directly from SMMW only.  None will be sold thru dealers, societies or at train shows and there is no guarantee the next production run will last long (resin kits are market-driven and limited-run by nature).

 

If you missed out on the previous run, now’s the time to remedy that.  Please contact me off-list to discuss.  Click on the main web site below to visit other items we produce or on this page showing just the chip hoppers:  http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/HO_rolling_stock.html

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com


locked Re: The SCL Merger

Robert Hanson
 

I think that such rights were rendered redundant by the purchase of the Georgia Northern.  The Southern upgraded a portion of the road so that they could run trains from Albany over to Sparks, GA (just below Tifton on the GS&F) thus bypassing both Atlanta and Macon.

This was in the works at the time of the merger and was accomplished by 1968.

I don't know, but this seems to be the case.

Bob






-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2020 10:47 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] The SCL Merger

Trackage rights for the CG from Albany to Tifton were apparently agreed to by SCL but not done?

Ike


On Jan 2, 2020, at 10:44 AM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

To this day I wonder how many ICC commissioners the ACL and SAL paid off to get that kind of ruling.

It blows my mind that they were able to get the merger approved without giving up anything in the way of preserving competition.

I would have thought that they would have been forced to sell one of their Savannah-Jacksonville and Jacksonville-Tampa main lines along with other concessions elsewhere.

Just incredible.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2020 9:30 am
Subject: [SouthernRailway] The SCL Merger

Yet another major file(s) in the SRHA archives concern the Seaboard Coast Line merger in the mid 60s. In addition to competition from the ACL and SAL combination, the Southern was interested in improving their access to SCL traffic in Jacksonville (there was never any long haul interchange with the ACL there), Southern wanted to get to Tampa because of its port facilities and to have access to phosphate traffic out of Florida's "Bone Valley".

The courts quite consistently found in favor of ACL/SAL and ag ainst the Southern, FEC and GM&O (!). The various court battles, filings, local newspaper and editorial efforts make for a large file. Some findings by the ICC and courts against the Southern are inexplicable, it appears only one was overturned that allowed Southern to interchange cars with SCL in Jacksonville.

Giving up the trackage rights from Hardeeville to Jacksonville and to Portsmouth, VA are stories themselves. Why the Southern did not get the Tampa Northern to give it access to Tampa and the BV from the Palatka line are not explained except that SCL fought hard against it and the Florida courts appear to have been quite pro SCL.

A related file in the archives is on the little known plans for the Florida Phosphate Railroad that would have given the phosphate people their own line to Port Manatee. SCL would not allow a crossing at grade, a bridge over the Coast Line would have been too close to Tampa Bay to stop the heavy (!) phosphate trains.

Ike









locked Re: The SCL Merger

George Eichelberger
 

Trackage rights for the CG from Albany to Tifton were apparently agreed to by SCL but not done?

Ike


On Jan 2, 2020, at 10:44 AM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

To this day I wonder how many ICC commissioners the ACL and SAL paid off to get that kind of ruling.

It blows my mind that they were able to get the merger approved without giving up anything in the way of preserving competition.

I would have thought that they would have been forced to sell one of their Savannah-Jacksonville and Jacksonville-Tampa main lines along with other concessions elsewhere.

Just incredible.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2020 9:30 am
Subject: [SouthernRailway] The SCL Merger

Yet another major file(s) in the SRHA archives concern the Seaboard Coast Line merger in the mid 60s. In addition to competition from the ACL and SAL combination, the Southern was interested in improving their access to SCL traffic in Jacksonville (there was never any long haul interchange with the ACL there), Southern wanted to get to Tampa because of its port facilities and to have access to phosphate traffic out of Florida's "Bone Valley".

The courts quite consistently found in favor of ACL/SAL and ag ainst the Southern, FEC and GM&O (!). The various court battles, filings, local newspaper and editorial efforts make for a large file. Some findings by the ICC and courts against the Southern are inexplicable, it appears only one was overturned that allowed Southern to interchange cars with SCL in Jacksonville.

Giving up the trackage rights from Hardeeville to Jacksonville and to Portsmouth, VA are stories themselves. Why the Southern did not get the Tampa Northern to give it access to Tampa and the BV from the Palatka line are not explained except that SCL fought hard against it and the Florida courts appear to have been quite pro SCL.

A related file in the archives is on the little known plans for the Florida Phosphate Railroad that would have given the phosphate people their own line to Port Manatee. SCL would not allow a crossing at grade, a bridge over the Coast Line would have been too close to Tampa Bay to stop the heavy (!) phosphate trains.

Ike









locked Re: The SCL Merger

Robert Hanson
 

To this day I wonder how many ICC commissioners the ACL and SAL paid off to get that kind of ruling.

It blows my mind that they were able to get the merger approved without giving up anything in the way of preserving competition.

I would have thought that they would have been forced to sell one of their Savannah-Jacksonville and Jacksonville-Tampa main lines along with other concessions elsewhere.

Just incredible.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Jan 2, 2020 9:30 am
Subject: [SouthernRailway] The SCL Merger

Yet another major file(s) in the SRHA archives concern the Seaboard Coast Line merger in the mid 60s. In addition to competition from the ACL and SAL combination, the Southern was interested in improving their access to SCL traffic in Jacksonville (there was never any long haul interchange with the ACL there), Southern wanted to get to Tampa because of its port facilities and to have access to phosphate traffic out of Florida's "Bone Valley".

The courts quite consistently found in favor of ACL/SAL and ag ainst the Southern, FEC and GM&O (!). The various court battles, filings, local newspaper and editorial efforts make for a large file. Some findings by the ICC and courts against the Southern are inexplicable, it appears only one was overturned that allowed Southern to interchange cars with SCL in Jacksonville.

Giving up the trackage rights from Hardeeville to Jacksonville and to Portsmouth, VA are stories themselves. Why the Southern did not get the Tampa Northern to give it access to Tampa and the BV from the Palatka line are not explained except that SCL fought hard against it and the Florida courts appear to have been quite pro SCL.

A related file in the archives is on the little known plans for the Florida Phosphate Railroad that would have given the phosphate people their own line to Port Manatee. SCL would not allow a crossing at grade, a bridge over the Coast Line would have been too close to Tampa Bay to stop the heavy (!) phosphate trains.

Ike








locked The SCL Merger

George Eichelberger
 

Yet another major file(s) in the SRHA archives concern the Seaboard Coast Line merger in the mid 60s. In addition to competition from the ACL and SAL combination, the Southern was interested in improving their access to SCL traffic in Jacksonville (there was never any long haul interchange with the ACL there), Southern wanted to get to Tampa because of its port facilities and to have access to phosphate traffic out of Florida's "Bone Valley".

The courts quite consistently found in favor of ACL/SAL and ag ainst the Southern, FEC and GM&O (!). The various court battles, filings, local newspaper and editorial efforts make for a large file. Some findings by the ICC and courts against the Southern are inexplicable, it appears only one was overturned that allowed Southern to interchange cars with SCL in Jacksonville.

Giving up the trackage rights from Hardeeville to Jacksonville and to Portsmouth, VA are stories themselves. Why the Southern did not get the Tampa Northern to give it access to Tampa and the BV from the Palatka line are not explained except that SCL fought hard against it and the Florida courts appear to have been quite pro SCL.

A related file in the archives is on the little known plans for the Florida Phosphate Railroad that would have given the phosphate people their own line to Port Manatee. SCL would not allow a crossing at grade, a bridge over the Coast Line would have been too close to Tampa Bay to stop the heavy (!) phosphate trains.

Ike







locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

Robert Hanson
 

Brosnan was both a genius and a lunatic at the same time.

He was a genius because of his many ideas and inventions that enabled the Southern - and the railroad industry in general - to mechanize and consolidate many functions in order to save money and survive the economic horror that was the late 60's and seventies prior to deregulation.

He was a lunatic because he had no people skills - absolutely none - and was blinded by the idea that whatever he did was right, even after it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that he was wrong.

He was also vindictive as hell.

And woe betide anyone who ever pointed out to him why he was wrong.  They were usually immediately unemployed.

I did not work for the Southern during Brosnan's administration, but I got there while there were many who had and they all had DWB stories to tell.  None of them pleasant, but all of them interesting.

I recommend the two-volume biography of Brosnan to anyone who is interested in knowing about the man.  I expected it to be a valentine to Brosnan but found that Mr. Morgret, who worked under Brosnan and knew him fairly well, presented the man pretty much as he was - warts and all.

Highly recommend this book, if you can locate a copy.

My two cents worth, and maybe a bit more.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA




-----Original Message-----
From: Rodney Shu <rodshu@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Jan 1, 2020 10:23 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

Ike:
Wow!   Thank you so much for your effort in finding this information. Reading this response written over 50 years ago means a great deal to me.   I doubt that it got him out of the dog house with Mr. Brosnan, but it looked like a good try to me.
 
Rodney
 
 
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
 
From: George Eichelberger
Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2020 12:34 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
Rodney:
 
We look forward to you (everyone on SR@groups.io, actually) making it to one of our archives work sessions. They are a combination of actual work, just looking through the archives and always include a heavy dose of simply meeting and talking to everyone.
 
It’s pretty much a “matter of fact” style but I’ve attached a note from your father responding to Brosnan’s comments on the August 10, 1966 Morning Report.
 
Ike
 
PS We have a bit of an “event” occurring at TVRM before the January work session (www.srha.net). NS official car No. 8 will arrive (by truck) from Gateway Rail Car at Madison, IL. Three SRHA/TVRM members donated to purchase the car from a private owner and move it to Chattanooga. The plan is to restore the car to Southern Railway official car No.5 and put it in service at TVRM. Extensive work was done on the car to bring it up to Amtrak standards. That work will be completed with new HEP, brake and mechanical systems. (Seeing an NS office car on an Interstate highway from IL to Chattanooga will be a photo worthy event. We’ll publish the exact date, tentatively Jan 6th when it’s known.)
 
We have located documentation dating back to when Hayne Shop converted the car from Pullman “Point Richmond” it follows the car to its disposition by NS. Assistance with donations for the restoration, technical/historical expertise and labor are certainly welcome.
 
 
 
 
 
On Jan 1, 2020, at 11:29 AM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:
 
Thanks for the response Ike.  I enjoy following the communications on the "Group".
 
Mr. Brosnan was quite a man.  I do have some stories about things that took place back then.  One quick one that comes to mind is the time that John Rust fired my father in the late '50s while he was Superintendent at Greensboro.  I guess when Mr. B found out about it, he told Rust not to do it. When he called my father their conversation was as if his firing had never happened. 
 
I have always wanted to attend one of the SRHS work days. Hope to see you then in Chattanooga.
 
Rodney 
 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 1:33 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
Rodney:
 
Please don’t be concerned….when you read the responses that always follow Brosnan’s margin notes, you see 99.99% of whatever the problem was, was beyond anyone’s control. “Thick skin” must have been standard issue by the Storekeeper to anyone in management. I will see if the file has a response to Brosnan's 8-29-66 missive.
 
Did you father tell you any DWB stories or stories from the Almon meetings? I retired from NS five years ago and at NS management meetings, people still referred to the DWB meeting style. (Although I have a hard time believing he had men stand on their chairs while he berated, and sometimes fired, them.)
 
If you are ever near Chattanooga, you might scan the files to see if there are more items to/from “PCS”.
 
Ike
 
 
 
On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:
 
The "PCS" was my father, Paul Shu, General Manager - Western Lines in 1966.  You had to be pretty thicked skinned in those days.  
 
Rodney Shu
 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 10:08 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.
 
The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.
 
We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.
 
Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….
 
Ike
 
<DWB 8-28-66.jpeg>
 
<DWB 8-29-66.jpeg>
 
 
 
 


locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

Rodney Shu
 

Ike:

Wow!   Thank you so much for your effort in finding this information. Reading this response written over 50 years ago means a great deal to me.   I doubt that it got him out of the dog house with Mr. Brosnan, but it looked like a good try to me.

 

Rodney

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: George Eichelberger
Sent: Wednesday, January 1, 2020 12:34 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

 

Rodney:

 

We look forward to you (everyone on SR@groups.io, actually) making it to one of our archives work sessions. They are a combination of actual work, just looking through the archives and always include a heavy dose of simply meeting and talking to everyone.

 

It’s pretty much a “matter of fact” style but I’ve attached a note from your father responding to Brosnan’s comments on the August 10, 1966 Morning Report.

 

Ike

 

PS We have a bit of an “event” occurring at TVRM before the January work session (www.srha.net). NS official car No. 8 will arrive (by truck) from Gateway Rail Car at Madison, IL. Three SRHA/TVRM members donated to purchase the car from a private owner and move it to Chattanooga. The plan is to restore the car to Southern Railway official car No.5 and put it in service at TVRM. Extensive work was done on the car to bring it up to Amtrak standards. That work will be completed with new HEP, brake and mechanical systems. (Seeing an NS office car on an Interstate highway from IL to Chattanooga will be a photo worthy event. We’ll publish the exact date, tentatively Jan 6th when it’s known.)

 

We have located documentation dating back to when Hayne Shop converted the car from Pullman “Point Richmond” it follows the car to its disposition by NS. Assistance with donations for the restoration, technical/historical expertise and labor are certainly welcome.

 

 

 

 

 

On Jan 1, 2020, at 11:29 AM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

 

Thanks for the response Ike.  I enjoy following the communications on the "Group".

 

Mr. Brosnan was quite a man.  I do have some stories about things that took place back then.  One quick one that comes to mind is the time that John Rust fired my father in the late '50s while he was Superintendent at Greensboro.  I guess when Mr. B found out about it, he told Rust not to do it. When he called my father their conversation was as if his firing had never happened. 

 

I have always wanted to attend one of the SRHS work days. Hope to see you then in Chattanooga.

 

Rodney 

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 1:33 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

 

Rodney:

 

Please don’t be concerned….when you read the responses that always follow Brosnan’s margin notes, you see 99.99% of whatever the problem was, was beyond anyone’s control. “Thick skin” must have been standard issue by the Storekeeper to anyone in management. I will see if the file has a response to Brosnan's 8-29-66 missive.

 

Did you father tell you any DWB stories or stories from the Almon meetings? I retired from NS five years ago and at NS management meetings, people still referred to the DWB meeting style. (Although I have a hard time believing he had men stand on their chairs while he berated, and sometimes fired, them.)

 

If you are ever near Chattanooga, you might scan the files to see if there are more items to/from “PCS”.

 

Ike

 

 

 

On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

 

The "PCS" was my father, Paul Shu, General Manager - Western Lines in 1966.  You had to be pretty thicked skinned in those days.  

 

Rodney Shu

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 10:08 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

 

There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.

 

The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.

 

We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.

 

Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….

 

Ike

 

<DWB 8-28-66.jpeg>

 

<DWB 8-29-66.jpeg>

 

 

 

 


locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

George Eichelberger
 

Rodney:

We look forward to you (everyone on SR@groups.io, actually) making it to one of our archives work sessions. They are a combination of actual work, just looking through the archives and always include a heavy dose of simply meeting and talking to everyone.

It’s pretty much a “matter of fact” style but I’ve attached a note from your father responding to Brosnan’s comments on the August 10, 1966 Morning Report.

Ike

PS We have a bit of an “event” occurring at TVRM before the January work session (www.srha.net). NS official car No. 8 will arrive (by truck) from Gateway Rail Car at Madison, IL. Three SRHA/TVRM members donated to purchase the car from a private owner and move it to Chattanooga. The plan is to restore the car to Southern Railway official car No.5 and put it in service at TVRM. Extensive work was done on the car to bring it up to Amtrak standards. That work will be completed with new HEP, brake and mechanical systems. (Seeing an NS office car on an Interstate highway from IL to Chattanooga will be a photo worthy event. We’ll publish the exact date, tentatively Jan 6th when it’s known.)

We have located documentation dating back to when Hayne Shop converted the car from Pullman “Point Richmond” it follows the car to its disposition by NS. Assistance with donations for the restoration, technical/historical expertise and labor are certainly welcome.





On Jan 1, 2020, at 11:29 AM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

Thanks for the response Ike.  I enjoy following the communications on the "Group".

Mr. Brosnan was quite a man.  I do have some stories about things that took place back then.  One quick one that comes to mind is the time that John Rust fired my father in the late '50s while he was Superintendent at Greensboro.  I guess when Mr. B found out about it, he told Rust not to do it. When he called my father their conversation was as if his firing had never happened. 
 
I have always wanted to attend one of the SRHS work days. Hope to see you then in Chattanooga.

Rodney 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 1:33 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
Rodney:

Please don’t be concerned….when you read the responses that always follow Brosnan’s margin notes, you see 99.99% of whatever the problem was, was beyond anyone’s control. “Thick skin” must have been standard issue by the Storekeeper to anyone in management. I will see if the file has a response to Brosnan's 8-29-66 missive.

Did you father tell you any DWB stories or stories from the Almon meetings? I retired from NS five years ago and at NS management meetings, people still referred to the DWB meeting style. (Although I have a hard time believing he had men stand on their chairs while he berated, and sometimes fired, them.)

If you are ever near Chattanooga, you might scan the files to see if there are more items to/from “PCS”.

Ike



On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

The "PCS" was my father, Paul Shu, General Manager - Western Lines in 1966.  You had to be pretty thicked skinned in those days.  

Rodney Shu


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 10:08 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.

The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.

We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.

Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….

Ike

<DWB 8-28-66.jpeg>

<DWB 8-29-66.jpeg>




locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

Carl Ardrey
 

I worked for L H Smith who was GM, Eastern Lines, in the late '80's.  He was a protégé of DWB and if it was anything like working for LHS good lord.  I went to a staff meeting in Atlanta in 1988 and felt like I was in Almond.  He had me squirming and I wasn't even a target.
CEA

On January 1, 2020 at 10:29 AM Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

Thanks for the response Ike.  I enjoy following the communications on the "Group".

Mr. Brosnan was quite a man.  I do have some stories about things that took place back then.  One quick one that comes to mind is the time that John Rust fired my father in the late '50s while he was Superintendent at Greensboro.  I guess when Mr. B found out about it, he told Rust not to do it. When he called my father their conversation was as if his firing had never happened. 
 
I have always wanted to attend one of the SRHS work days. Hope to see you then in Chattanooga.

Rodney 
 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 1:33 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
Rodney:

Please don’t be concerned….when you read the responses that always follow Brosnan’s margin notes, you see 99.99% of whatever the problem was, was beyond anyone’s control. “Thick skin” must have been standard issue by the Storekeeper to anyone in management. I will see if the file has a response to Brosnan's 8-29-66 missive.

Did you father tell you any DWB stories or stories from the Almon meetings? I retired from NS five years ago and at NS management meetings, people still referred to the DWB meeting style. (Although I have a hard time believing he had men stand on their chairs while he berated, and sometimes fired, them.)

If you are ever near Chattanooga, you might scan the files to see if there are more items to/from “PCS”.

Ike



On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Rodney Shu < rodshu@...> wrote:

The "PCS" was my father, Paul Shu, General Manager - Western Lines in 1966.  You had to be pretty thicked skinned in those days.  

Rodney Shu
 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 10:08 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.

The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.

We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.

Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….

Ike

<DWB 8-28-66.jpeg>

<DWB 8-29-66.jpeg>



 


locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

Rodney Shu
 

Thanks for the response Ike.  I enjoy following the communications on the "Group".

Mr. Brosnan was quite a man.  I do have some stories about things that took place back then.  One quick one that comes to mind is the time that John Rust fired my father in the late '50s while he was Superintendent at Greensboro.  I guess when Mr. B found out about it, he told Rust not to do it. When he called my father their conversation was as if his firing had never happened. 
 
I have always wanted to attend one of the SRHS work days. Hope to see you then in Chattanooga.

Rodney 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 1:33 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
Rodney:

Please don’t be concerned….when you read the responses that always follow Brosnan’s margin notes, you see 99.99% of whatever the problem was, was beyond anyone’s control. “Thick skin” must have been standard issue by the Storekeeper to anyone in management. I will see if the file has a response to Brosnan's 8-29-66 missive.

Did you father tell you any DWB stories or stories from the Almon meetings? I retired from NS five years ago and at NS management meetings, people still referred to the DWB meeting style. (Although I have a hard time believing he had men stand on their chairs while he berated, and sometimes fired, them.)

If you are ever near Chattanooga, you might scan the files to see if there are more items to/from “PCS”.

Ike



On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

The "PCS" was my father, Paul Shu, General Manager - Western Lines in 1966.  You had to be pretty thicked skinned in those days.  

Rodney Shu


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 10:08 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.

The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.

We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.

Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….

Ike

<DWB 8-28-66.jpeg>

<DWB 8-29-66.jpeg>



locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

George Eichelberger
 

Rodney:

Please don’t be concerned….when you read the responses that always follow Brosnan’s margin notes, you see 99.99% of whatever the problem was, was beyond anyone’s control. “Thick skin” must have been standard issue by the Storekeeper to anyone in management. I will see if the file has a response to Brosnan's 8-29-66 missive.

Did you father tell you any DWB stories or stories from the Almon meetings? I retired from NS five years ago and at NS management meetings, people still referred to the DWB meeting style. (Although I have a hard time believing he had men stand on their chairs while he berated, and sometimes fired, them.)

If you are ever near Chattanooga, you might scan the files to see if there are more items to/from “PCS”.

Ike



On Dec 31, 2019, at 1:54 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

The "PCS" was my father, Paul Shu, General Manager - Western Lines in 1966.  You had to be pretty thicked skinned in those days.  

Rodney Shu


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 10:08 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.

The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.

We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.

Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….

Ike

<DWB 8-28-66.jpeg>

<DWB 8-29-66.jpeg>



locked Re: D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

Rodney Shu
 

The "PCS" was my father, Paul Shu, General Manager - Western Lines in 1966.  You had to be pretty thicked skinned in those days.  

Rodney Shu


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 31, 2019 10:08 AM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: [SouthernRailway] D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966
 
There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.

The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.

We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.

Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….

Ike




locked D.W. Brosnan and SR Operations- 1966

George Eichelberger
 

There are multiple files in SRHA archives box 612  labeled “Operating Conditions 1966”. They are in the Presidents’ files as virtually every detail of the operation of the Southern Railway was communicated to SR President DW Brosnan on a daily basis.

The files are not well organized but many reports show hand written notations by Mr. Brosnan that typically result in an “explanation” back to him from someone.

We can imagine receiving one of his notated reports would not make for a pleasant day for the recipient.

Here are two examples with Mr. Brosnan’s short (pithy?) comments….

Ike




locked Ralph Budd letter and report to the SEPC, July, 1941

George Eichelberger
 

From the SRHA Archives:

The attached letter from Ralph Budd to the Chairman of the “Southeastern Railroad Presidents’ Conference” may predate orders from the “Office of Defense Transportation” (ODT) telling railroads that had to eliminate certain passenger trains to make equipment available for wartime transportation and travel.

The letter, and attachment, was forwarded to “Member Roads” by Chairman Fitzgerald Hall of the NC&StL on July 12.

(There are extensive files on the SEPC in the SRHA archives. In today’s anti-trust environment, much of their work would probably be illegal but in the 1930s and 40s, the southeastern rail Presidents cooperated on many business decisions, an agreement to NOT air condition their passenger trains being one example. The SAL, in bankruptcy and run by trustees broke the agreement by asking the Pullman Co. to equip the “Orange Blossom Special”. That forced the ACL to adopt AC for their Florida trains…explained in an ACL letter to the SEPC.)

Ike

PS As always, membership in the Southern Railway Historical Association (www.srha.net) is open to anyone interested in the Southern Railway System. Donations to help organize and catalog archives material are needed and welsome.






locked Re: Cleaning out the accounting books

Kevin Centers
 

I don’t think we’ve ever called them ghost tracks, but the same issue still exists. It’s always been difficult to get field folks and accounting folks on the same page. The ICC (STB) doesn’t much care anymore, but the bottom line is still adversely effected by additions and retirements that aren’t correctly recorded. 

On Dec 24, 2019, at 2:58 PM, "sgwarner88@..." <sgwarner88@...> wrote:

A similar thing occurred (or occurs) in MW&S during my time in the 70's and 80's.  We Track Supervisors were to report any track installed or retired on various "R Forms". This was to keep the ICC Valuation up to date going back to the original Chaining Notes walked/taken during the early 1900's (I saw notes take in WWI).  Mr. Rose had me audit the R Line to Augusta in '78.  I found numerous tracks taken up but still on the books (never retired - Ghost Tracks?)  and others installed with no record.  If I recall, the DE was no longer there sometime after....


locked Re: Cleaning out the accounting books

sgwarner88@...
 

A similar thing occurred (or occurs) in MW&S during my time in the 70's and 80's.  We Track Supervisors were to report any track installed or retired on various "R Forms". This was to keep the ICC Valuation up to date going back to the original Chaining Notes walked/taken during the early 1900's (I saw notes take in WWI).  Mr. Rose had me audit the R Line to Augusta in '78.  I found numerous tracks taken up but still on the books (never retired - Ghost Tracks?)  and others installed with no record.  If I recall, the DE was no longer there sometime after....


locked Re: Cleaning out the accounting books

rwbrv4
 

I know........looked in the mirror this AM and it broke!
RB


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
To: main <main@southernrailway.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Dec 23, 2019 2:46 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Cleaning out the accounting books

Rick:

Those who live in glass houses . . .😜

—Bill


Another iPhone-generated message

On Dec 23, 2019, at 14:23, rwbrv4 via Groups.Io <Rwbrv4@...> wrote:

Oh my, I just realized that went out to a group, and not the SRHA group.
Sorry folks.
Rick


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Schafer <bill4501@...>
To: main <main@southernrailway.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Dec 23, 2019 2:20 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Cleaning out the accounting books

Excellent explanation. I expect those wood boxcars were nearly all ghosts. I remember when I was in the training program in Greensboro the mechanical Dept used a wood boxcar - sans trucks, in the weeds behind the rip track - as a storage room. The genl fman told me it had been years since he had seen one in service, MOOW. That was 1971. 

—Bill


Another iPhone-generated message

On Dec 23, 2019, at 13:08, Kevin Centers <klcenters@...> wrote:

Ike

We refer to cars that still have an accounting record but do not physically exist as ghost cars.  They have soul, but their mortal bodies have left this earth. Movement records are generally researched by Mechanical and Equipment Planning, and if a car is found to not be moving, field personnel try to find it. If it can’t be found it is recommended for retirement as a ghost. 
To do a little more of a dive into boring accounting, Capital Accounting processes the retirements without salvage.  As you may or may not be aware, under group depreciation, an asset generates depreciation expense until it is retired, regardless of its intended life. As a result, it is important to get non-existent assets off the books to avoid overstating expenses and understating net income. This situation can also cause some concern during depreciation study time if there is a large number of ghosts. Fortunately, we only have a handful nowadays. During the Conrail acquisition, though, it was very common to see large numbers of cars being retired as ghosts since CR’s records weren’t that good at times. 

Kevin

On Dec 23, 2019, at 12:16 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

The project to record data on Southern Railway rolling stock has been continuing for more than 20 years. The project's spread sheets include more than 300,000 entries (when cars and locos were acquired, rebuilt, modified and scrapped). Sometimes, an entry in the SR records will say something like "car interchanged to Mexico, never returned" other entries will have no idea what became of the equipment.

We recently found information on thousands more freight and passenger car dispositions (approvals to retire and scrap) in Presidents' file boxes 579 and 580. A July 10, 1972 memo to Graham Claytor recommending retirement for 31 40-ton wood sheathed box cars (attached) is unusual. The Southern accounting or audit folks must have wanted to clear their books?

Ike
<1972-7-10 31 40T wood sheathed box cars cars recommended for reirement _cannot be found_ Pg 1.jpg>


locked Re: Cleaning out the accounting books

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Sometimes, an entry in the SR records will say something like "car interchanged to Mexico, never returned" ....

I recall a memo that listed the groups of Southern cars that were not to be loaded to consignees in Mexico.  Basically, all of our aluminum cars.  The fear was we would not get the car back.  Metal thieves would cut it up on sight.  I was told that was a big reason why the roof-hatch boxcars were kept in service so long, for loading to Mexico.

Baseless fear?  I don't think so.  When I was doing civil work for BN in the mid '90s they started buying thousands of 4750cf grain hoppers from Trinity, all with fancy new aluminum roof hatches.  They sent a trainload of grain to Mexico in these new cars.  They came back hatchless.


Scott Chatfield