Date   
moderated Re: Peddler Cars

C J Wyatt
 

Ike, a peddler car was the package/LCL car on a local or way freight which was used for picking up and leaving LCL shipments at the local stations.

Jack



From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 9:17 PM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

There was another very obscure "local" freight service that I have only seen in the Southern's tariff. Assuming the name describes the service "Peddler Cars" were (I assume) cars that were set out along the railroad to sell whatever was in them, the 1920s version of a "truckload sale"? The only example I can think of would be something like cast iron stoves. Sell some, then move to the next town and sell some more?

Is anyone familiar with the term or know of any SR examples?

Ike


moderated Re: Peddler Cars

Robert Hanson
 

Ike - 

Unless I'm mistaken, a peddler car is a car loaded with LCL freight for various points along a run.  As I understand it, these cars were usually placed right behind the locomotive and were set off on the house track of a depot for unloading by the agent/clerk/freighthouse porter while the train crew switched carload freight at local industries.

When the switching was done, the crew re-assembled their train, with the peddler car tucked in behind the locomotive, and they moved on to the next stop where the procedure was repeated.

That's how I understand the procedure, but if anyone has additional information, I'm open to correction.

Bob Hanson



-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 9:17 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

There was another very obscure "local" freight service that I have only seen in the Southern's tariff. Assuming the name describes the service "Peddler Cars" were (I assume) cars that were set out along the railroad to sell whatever was in them, the 1920s version of a "truckload sale"? The only example I can think of would be something like cast iron stoves. Sell some, then move to the next town and sell some more?

Is anyone familiar with the term or know of any SR examples?

Ike

moderated Re: Peddler Cars

mike turner
 

Ok, going for a second dumb question of the day:

if the peddler car immediately followed the engine and was dropped at the depot, was the caboose spotted anywhere in particular? A slight familiarity with another rr's practice prompted this question.

Thx.

Mike Turner

MP-Z35

moderated Re: Peddler Cars

George Eichelberger
 

These explanations about Peddler cars make sense, except, why would they have a tariff filed for LCL traffic that already had its own waybills? If the car was operated by the Southern, obviously it was, it would not need to be covered with another freight tariff?

And…references to multi stop package cars do not use the term “peddler”.

It will be a bit of a zoo with everything going on but I will see if I can locate the “Peddler” tariff when we unpack at Chattanooga this weekend. It might explain itself. Everyone is welcome to come and help! Several people are driving up from Atlanta Friday and/or Saturday.

Ike


On Oct 16, 2018, at 9:28 PM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Ike - 

Unless I'm mistaken, a peddler car is a car loaded with LCL freight for various points along a run.  As I understand it, these cars were usually placed right behind the locomotive and were set off on the house track of a depot for unloading by the agent/clerk/freighthouse porter while the train crew switched carload freight at local industries.

When the switching was done, the crew re-assembled their train, with the peddler car tucked in behind the locomotive, and they moved on to the next stop where the procedure was repeated.

That's how I understand the procedure, but if anyone has additional information, I'm open to correction.

Bob Hanson



-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 9:17 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

There was another very obscure "local" freight service that I have only seen in the Southern's tariff. Assuming the name describes the service "Peddler Cars" were (I assume) cars that were set out along the railroad to sell whatever was in them, the 1920s version of a "truckload sale"? The only example I can think of would be something like cast iron stoves. Sell some, then move to the next town and sell some more?

Is anyone familiar with the term or know of any SR examples?

Ike

moderated Re: SOU Directory of Industries (was Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern "Package Car" Services)

C J Wyatt
 

There was a copy in the library at Kennesaw. I don't know if it came with us to Chattanooga.

I have a copy myself.

Jack


From: mike turner <yardcoolie1968@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:37 PM
Subject: SOU Directory of Industries (was Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern "Package Car" Services)

Dumb question of the day: where might one find a copy of SOU directories of industries? Specific interest is circa 1950 but any year would be helpful. Thx.
Mike Turner
MP-Z35
On 10/16/2018 11:57 AM, C J Wyatt wrote:
Ike,
...
The Southern Railway directory of Industries which was printed around 1938 has ten pages of the package car routes for the various freight houses on the system.
...
Jack 



moderated Re: Peddler Cars

George Eichelberger
 

Mike:

I’d expect local conditions, and what the Conductor wanted to do, dictated how package and LCL cars were handled at different towns. Quite a few of our depot photos show a box car sitting on house tracks. David Driscoll photos show cabs parked at the freight house at Reidsville, NC. With the large American Tobacco plant, there would have been a lot of local switching there.

We need a first hand account from a SR train crew member of the period.

Ike

On Oct 16, 2018, at 10:10 PM, mike turner <yardcoolie1968@...> wrote:

Ok, going for a second dumb question of the day:

if the peddler car immediately followed the engine and was dropped at the depot, was the caboose spotted anywhere in particular? A slight familiarity with another rr's practice prompted this question.

Thx.

Mike Turner

MP-Z35

moderated Re: Peddler Cars

C J Wyatt
 

I am not seeing what your point is. I would think that each package gets a waybill. All of the waybills for packages handled in a given car would be bundled together by the clerks and conductor, I believe.

Multi stop sounds like a car loaded by a shipper with shipments for several consignees at different locations.

Jack



From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

These explanations about Peddler cars make sense, except, why would they have a tariff filed for LCL traffic that already had its own waybills? If the car was operated by the Southern, obviously it was, it would not need to be covered with another freight tariff?

And…references to multi stop package cars do not use the term “peddler”.

It will be a bit of a zoo with everything going on but I will see if I can locate the “Peddler” tariff when we unpack at Chattanooga this weekend. It might explain itself. Everyone is welcome to come and help! Several people are driving up from Atlanta Friday and/or Saturday.

Ike


On Oct 16, 2018, at 9:28 PM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Ike - 

Unless I'm mistaken, a peddler car is a car loaded with LCL freight for various points along a run.  As I understand it, these cars were usually placed right behind the locomotive and were set off on the house track of a depot for unloading by the agent/clerk/freighthouse porter while the train crew switched carload freight at local industries.

When the switching was done, the crew re-assembled their train, with the peddler car tucked in behind the locomotive, and they moved on to the next stop where the procedure was repeated.

That's how I understand the procedure, but if anyone has additional information, I'm open to correction.

Bob Hanson



-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 9:17 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

There was another very obscure "local" freight service that I have only seen in the Southern's tariff. Assuming the name describes the service "Peddler Cars" were (I assume) cars that were set out along the railroad to sell whatever was in them, the 1920s version of a "truckload sale"? The only example I can think of would be something like cast iron stoves. Sell some, then move to the next town and sell some more?

Is anyone familiar with the term or know of any SR examples?

Ike



moderated Re: Peddler Cars

Ed Mims
 

I suspect LCL, Package Car and Peddler might have all been the same. I'm not at all familial with this practice but I know train crews and other railroad employees had their own vocabulary. This vocabulary varied railroad to railroad and even on different regions of the same railroad, so if it is not defined by a traffic, it might just be railroad slang. As far as how these cars were handled, I'm sure this also varied depending on the items to be handled (unloaded or loaded) at local stations and the station track arrangement among other things. These are just thoughts--speculation on my part.

Ed Mims

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2018 10:44 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

Mike:

I’d expect local conditions, and what the Conductor wanted to do, dictated how package and LCL cars were handled at different towns. Quite a few of our depot photos show a box car sitting on house tracks. David Driscoll photos show cabs parked at the freight house at Reidsville, NC. With the large American Tobacco plant, there would have been a lot of local switching there.

We need a first hand account from a SR train crew member of the period.

Ike



On Oct 16, 2018, at 10:10 PM, mike turner <yardcoolie1968@...> wrote:

Ok, going for a second dumb question of the day:

if the peddler car immediately followed the engine and was dropped at the depot, was the caboose spotted anywhere in particular? A slight familiarity with another rr's practice prompted this question.

Thx.

Mike Turner

MP-Z35

moderated Re: Peddler Cars

Robert Hanson
 

Mike - 

My description of the process was as I understand it.  The car could have been spotted next to the caboose, but the article in a very old Trains Magazine that I recalled had it next to the locomotive for easy spotting..  As to where the cab was spotted - anywhere out of the way of the switching moves, I suppose.

Short answer - I don't know that there was any set location to leave the caboose while switching.

Bob Hanson


-----Original Message-----
From: mike turner <yardcoolie1968@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 10:11 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

Ok, going for a second dumb question of the day:

if the peddler car immediately followed the engine and was dropped at
the depot, was the caboose spotted anywhere in particular? A slight
familiarity with another rr's practice prompted this question.

Thx.

Mike Turner

MP-Z35




moderated Re: Peddler Cars

Robert Hanson
 

Ike - 

I cannot address the "Peddler" tariff.  Never seen one.  LCL traffic was frequently covered in separate tariffs from carload traffic.

"Peddler" cars and local freight trains were commonly used terms for these services.  Not necessarily the formal terms.

I'm working from information acquired by reading, not experience, as LCL business was all but gone by the time I went to work in 1970.  A few vestiges remained, as Bill said earlier, but the service was essentially gone by this time.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 10:32 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

These explanations about Peddler cars make sense, except, why would they have a tariff filed for LCL traffic that already had its own waybills? If the car was operated by the Southern, obviously it was, it would not need to be covered with another freight tariff?

And…references to multi stop package cars do not use the term “peddler”.

It will be a bit of a zoo with everything going on but I will see if I can locate the “Peddler” tariff when we unpack at Chattanooga this weekend. It might explain itself. Everyone is welcome to come and help! Several people are driving up from Atlanta Friday and/or Saturday.

Ike


On Oct 16, 2018, at 9:28 PM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Ike - 

Unless I'm mistaken, a peddler car is a car loaded with LCL freight for various points along a run.  As I understand it, these cars were usually placed right behind the locomotive and were set off on the house track of a depot for unloading by the agent/clerk/freighthouse porter while the train crew switched carload freight at local industries.

When the switching was done, the crew re-assembled their train, with the peddler car tucked in behind the locomotive, and they moved on to the next stop where the procedure was repeated.

That's how I understand the procedure, but if anyone has additional information, I'm open to correction.

Bob Hanson



-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 9:17 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

There was another very obscure "local" freight service that I have only seen in the Southern's tariff. Assuming the name describes the service "Peddler Cars" were (I assume) cars that were set out along the railroad to sell whatever was in them, the 1920s version of a "truckload sale"? The only example I can think of would be something like cast iron stoves. Sell some, then move to the next town and sell some more?

Is anyone familiar with the term or know of any SR examples?

Ike

moderated Re: Peddler Cars

C J Wyatt
 

Another term was "trap car". Apparently it was a car loaded at a manufacturer or warehouse and sent to the transfer or freight house for further forwarding of the LCL shipments.

I am attaching an interesting, one page, clinic handout which I found online.

Jack
,


From: Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2018 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

Ike - 

I cannot address the "Peddler" tariff.  Never seen one.  LCL traffic was frequently covered in separate tariffs from carload traffic.

"Peddler" cars and local freight trains were commonly used terms for these services.  Not necessarily the formal terms.

I'm working from information acquired by reading, not experience, as LCL business was all but gone by the time I went to work in 1970.  A few vestiges remained, as Bill said earlier, but the service was essentially gone by this time.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 10:32 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

These explanations about Peddler cars make sense, except, why would they have a tariff filed for LCL traffic that already had its own waybills? If the car was operated by the Southern, obviously it was, it would not need to be covered with another freight tariff?

And…references to multi stop package cars do not use the term “peddler”.

It will be a bit of a zoo with everything going on but I will see if I can locate the “Peddler” tariff when we unpack at Chattanooga this weekend. It might explain itself. Everyone is welcome to come and help! Several people are driving up from Atlanta Friday and/or Saturday.

Ike


On Oct 16, 2018, at 9:28 PM, Robert Hanson via Groups.Io <RHanson669@...> wrote:

Ike - 

Unless I'm mistaken, a peddler car is a car loaded with LCL freight for various points along a run.  As I understand it, these cars were usually placed right behind the locomotive and were set off on the house track of a depot for unloading by the agent/clerk/freighthouse porter while the train crew switched carload freight at local industries.

When the switching was done, the crew re-assembled their train, with the peddler car tucked in behind the locomotive, and they moved on to the next stop where the procedure was repeated.

That's how I understand the procedure, but if anyone has additional information, I'm open to correction.

Bob Hanson



-----Original Message-----
From: George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Oct 16, 2018 9:17 pm
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Peddler Cars

There was another very obscure "local" freight service that I have only seen in the Southern's tariff. Assuming the name describes the service "Peddler Cars" were (I assume) cars that were set out along the railroad to sell whatever was in them, the 1920s version of a "truckload sale"? The only example I can think of would be something like cast iron stoves. Sell some, then move to the next town and sell some more?

Is anyone familiar with the term or know of any SR examples?

Ike



moderated Re: Peddler Cars

sgwarner88@...
 

From my knowledge of the use of the term since the 60's, Peddler, Way Freight, of Local all meant the same thing.  The train carried a LCL car (boxcar?) that they spotted at the depot or house track and waited for someone to unload or load it.  I have seen Peddler used, but in the same context.

moderated Re: Southern Railway Presidents' File Finding Aid

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Wish I could join y'all this weekend but we have a bunch of friends coming from out of town for an operations weekend.  I get play asshole dispatcher (I know, redundant...)


Scott Chatfield

moderated Southern Railway Presidents' File Finding Aid

George Eichelberger
 

All: My apologies! Please disregard the first posting on this..... The attachment included a reference to an organization I never want to see or hear about again. Here is a "clean" version.

To get ready to move the SRHA archives Presidents' files onto the shelves this weekend, and to familiarize people with the kinds of material
they contain, here is one part of 1967-1969 finding aid from Graham Claytor's administation, some of the topics may be familiar.

Without the finding aids, the files would be simply a huge pile of paper. Assembling cleaning them up and getting everything into file folders and archives boxes was the work of "our" archivist Salley Loy. Her work, partially funded by a grant from Norfolk Southern, is one of the most significant collections in the SRHA archives. As soon as resources permit, the Presidents' files and Ben Robert photo prints finding aids will be put on the SRHA web site.

The file count in the attached example is up to 11,579 with more Claytor and Harold Hall indexes not shown. If we have enough help tomorrow and Saturday, all will be out of packing boxes and accessible for the first time in several years.

Ike
_._,_._,_

moderated Re: Southern Railway Presidents' File Finding Aid

Jim Thurston
 

Ike:

Both Claytor files are corrupted for me (crazy bad formatting)

Jim T


From: "Ike Eichelberger" <geichelberger@...>
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2018 3:15:35 PM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway Presidents' File Finding Aid

All: My apologies! Please disregard the first posting on this..... The attachment included a reference to an organization I never want to see or hear about again. Here is a "clean" version.

To get ready to move the SRHA archives Presidents' files onto the shelves this weekend, and to familiarize people with the kinds of material
they contain, here is one part of 1967-1969 finding aid from Graham Claytor's administation, some of the topics may be familiar.

Without the finding aids, the files would be simply a huge pile of paper. Assembling cleaning them up and getting everything into file folders and archives boxes was the work of "our" archivist Salley Loy. Her work, partially funded by a grant from Norfolk Southern, is one of the most significant collections in the SRHA archives. As soon as resources permit, the Presidents' files and Ben Robert photo prints finding aids will be put on the SRHA web site.

The file count in the attached example is up to 11,579 with more Claytor and Harold Hall indexes not shown. If we have enough help tomorrow and Saturday, all will be out of packing boxes and accessible for the first time in several years.

Ike

moderated Condensed List and Description of Locomotives

David Payne
 



Does anyone have a copy of the subject list dated January 1, 1967 (on or about)?  If so, would you let me know if all nine of the Central of Georgia F3 locomotives (901 - 909) are listed.
Thank you.
David Payne


moderated Re: Condensed List and Description of Locomotives

Robert Graham
 

David

I have a SOU form 1014 that I believe is a 1967 copy; it DOES NOT have an effective date (olive green cover, dark green tape binding) but I believe it to be a 1967 edition, as it does not have the SD45's listed, but does have the 1965 SD35's and still has the E6A's listed, which were T/I to EMD on SD45's in 1967. It shows CofG F3A listed as 0901-0909 listed as on the roster. The next newest edition I have is May 6 2970 and the CofG F3A are not listed.

Best I can do.

Bob Graham


---- "David Payne via Groups.Io" <davidcofga=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:

 
 
Does anyone have a copy of the subject list dated January 1, 1967 (on or about)?  If so, would you let me know if all nine of the Central of Georgia F3 locomotives (901 - 909) are listed.
Thank you.
David Payne
 
 


moderated Southern F3 Air Tank Dimensions and Lettering Dimensions

David Friedlander
 

All,

I'm currently trying to figure out three things for Southern (Phase 3) F3's that had the Rooftop Tanks:
1. Does anyone have photos or drawings of the roofs to determine where piping for the tanks should be routed? Don't see anything really good in my books, though I found this really nice G-scale build: http://dieseldetailer.proboards.com/thread/15115/another-southern-f3a

2. Does anyone know the actual dimensions for the tanks?  I know they're not the same as the E8.

3. I noticed the southernmodeler.info site is gone.  Do the lettering diagrams (dimensions, etc.) for the yellow lettering on the green units exist online?


Thanks,
David Friedlander

moderated Re: Southern F3 Air Tank Dimensions and Lettering Dimensions

George Eichelberger
 

Southern drawing DL-3304 shows the aftercooler piping for “Freight Units”. I will see if there is a digital version of the air tanks drawing tomorrow. If not, I expect there is a hard copy of the drawing in the archives at TVRM.

Ike

PS The Friday and Saturday work session got all of the Presidents’, Central of Georgia Executive Dept and ICC Field Notes unpacked and on the reinstalled shelves. The next formal work session is not until November (dates are on the SRHA.net web site) but we will be there before the planned session. If anyone wants to see the archives after next weekend, send a note to archives@....

moderated Re: Southern F3 Air Tank Dimensions and Lettering Dimensions

David Friedlander
 

Ike,

Wish I had that diagram when I did my F7 freight units.  Maybe I'll go back and redo the piping I did to make them more realistic.

Wish the archive was closer, so I could volunteer there...it doesn't help that I recently moved even further away up to NYC.

David Friedlander


On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 11:58 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Southern drawing DL-3304 shows the aftercooler piping for “Freight Units”. I will see if there is a digital version of the air tanks drawing tomorrow. If not, I expect there is a hard copy of the drawing in the archives at TVRM.

Ike

PS The Friday and Saturday work session got all of the Presidents’, Central of Georgia Executive Dept and ICC Field Notes unpacked and on the reinstalled shelves. The next formal work session is not until November (dates are on the SRHA.net web site) but we will be there before the planned session. If anyone wants to see the archives after next weekend, send a note to archives@....