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Re: Clay hoppers
George Eichelberger
Yes, note Sou 73648 attached at Linwood 7-96….with no side extensions or hopper bottoms, they certainly did not carry a heavy load of chips. I have photos at Pomona of several cars with the doors missing. Note the reinforcements along the top bulb angle. With solid bottoms , they could have been rotary dumped?
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Ike PS I have not checked but might the new Tangent hoppers be a starting point for a model of these? 
On Jan 13, 2020, at 7:53 PM, Sam Smith via Groups.Io <sam_smith2004@...> wrote: These cars were used in wood chip service?
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Re: Clay hoppers and the "cousin" Chip hoppers
David Payne
From personal observation, I don't think so, but the same "drop bottom ~ ratchet and pawl" arrangement was used on converted forty-foot boxcars (roof removed and sides extended about two feet) in the same mid-sixties period.
These cars had slope sheets installed on the ends toward the first set of drop bottoms and had a rope attached to one end near the top ... how do I know? ...
Interestingly, the end of the B end of the car had an access opening cut in it. These were just unique cars!
Let me add that in the early days of chip service (late fifties), it wasn't unusual for any 70 ton 3-bay hoppers to be used for chip service. Central's first "Chip Service" cars were these cars with some even specially lettered for chip service, but it didn't take long before fifty were rebuilt with extended sides. I think this was done in Columbus, but it could have been in Macon. CG series 101-150.
DPayne
Georgia
In a message dated 1/13/2020 7:58:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, sam_smith2004@... writes:
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Re: Clay hoppers
Sam Smith
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Re: Clay hoppers
David Payne
In a message dated 1/13/2020 3:22:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, blindog@... writes:
The Southern had a bunch of modified 3-bay open hoppers for clay service. These are the ones with sorta-clamshell doors held closed by chains that were wrapped around spools on the carside. I gather they mostly were used in the Carolinas. These cars were also "common" in Georgia in the mid-sixties and early-seventies between the clay pits northwest of Rome to brick manufacturers in the Columbus and Macon areas.
David Payne
Georgia
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Re: Clay hoppers
Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...>
Only scanned Shot I could find.
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WC
On Jan 13, 2020, at 4:06 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@bellsouth.net> wrote:
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Re: Clay hoppers
George Eichelberger
Scott:
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Digging through photos, I found several of the cars in wood chip service (stenciled along the channel below the side sill). The photos were all taken at Linwood yard. Ike
On Jan 13, 2020, at 3:16 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote: The Southern had a bunch of modified 3-bay open hoppers for clay service. These are the ones with sorta-clamshell doors held closed by chains that were wrapped around spools on the carside. I gather they mostly were used in the Carolinas. My question is what customers did they serve? Were they just for clay or did they also haul wet phosphate rock? Have they been covered in TIES? Thanks! Hope to see some of you on Friday at the Archives. Scott Chatfield
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Southern/NS wood chip hopper kit rerun reminder
Jim King
A couple weeks ago, I announced the re-issuing of Crosstie Models’ large wood chip hopper kit suitable for Southern and NS (with NW reporting marks). The cutoff date is approaching to place your pre-order for the next production run. To see pix of pilot models and prototypes, read about kit contents and instructions on placing a no-money-required reservation, please visit my web site below. Click on “HO Rolling Stock” link on the main page to whisk you to the chip hopper page.
You can email me directly by clicking on the email link at the bottom of each web page.
Thank you.
Jim King http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/
-- Jim King http://smokymountainmodelworks.com
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Re: Clay hoppers
George Eichelberger
Scott:
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The clay hoppers were favorites of mine so I took as many photos of them as I could. I’m sure Warren has many more but here is a nice shot of Sou 72597 I took at Greensboro 12-30-83. Aside from the fact the sun was perfect, I wanted a photo with the doors down. I have to assume they were never moved without the doors being up? Ike 
On Jan 13, 2020, at 3:16 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote: The Southern had a bunch of modified 3-bay open hoppers for clay service. These are the ones with sorta-clamshell doors held closed by chains that were wrapped around spools on the carside. I gather they mostly were used in the Carolinas. My question is what customers did they serve? Were they just for clay or did they also haul wet phosphate rock? Have they been covered in TIES? Thanks! Hope to see some of you on Friday at the Archives. Scott Chatfield
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Re: Clay hoppers
Kevin von der Lippe
Scott,
The clay hoppers were used between Gulf, NC (red clay pits) and Pomona Terra Cotta plant (pipe and tile company) in Greensboro, NC. My understanding was 24 empties were transported a day to Gulf (ca. 1950s) and 24 full were picked up a day—so at least 48 of the cars were in captive service along the old Atlantic & Yadkin line (CF Line).
The NC Transportation Museum has a surviving example in Spencer, NC. That one came from a Boren brick plant south of Greensboro—so I guess they could have been used anywhere to transport clay. I understand some where used for Kaolin between Cordova, AL, and a Boren plant in Blacksburg, SC, until the mid-1980s
Fenton Wells did a clinic to a modelers group a year ago or so on how to kit-bash a hopper. Mask Island Decals made decals for the HO-scale model that Fenton did.
I hope this helps.
Kevin von der Lippe Oak Ridge, NC
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
On Behalf Of D. Scott Chatfield
Sent: Monday, January 13, 2020 3:17 PM To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io Subject: [SouthernRailway] Clay hoppers
The Southern had a bunch of modified 3-bay open hoppers for clay service. These are the ones with sorta-clamshell doors held closed by chains that were wrapped around spools on the carside. I gather they mostly were used in the Carolinas.
My question is what customers did they serve? Were they just for clay or did they also haul wet phosphate rock? Have they been covered in TIES?
Thanks! Hope to see some of you on Friday at the Archives.
Scott Chatfield
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Re: Clay hoppers
George Eichelberger
Scott:
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The “crude earth” cars were modified from 70T Sou 70000 series triple hoppers. When I was cataloging the SRHA freight car drawings they were generally in chrono and numerical order per drawing size. All of a sudden as I was going through drawings that went "backwards” by date and drawing number to the WWI era. It turned out, when the Southern did the mods on the clay hoppers they reached back into their files and used the same drop bottom design as the early composite hoppers. Everything used the old drawings! The cars were maintained (and very much disliked) at Greensboro. Most (all?) were in use to Gulf, NC I “found” a large number of freight and passenger car retirement and scrapping records from the Claytor and Brosnan eras the last time I dug through the Prez files. Many of the composite hoppers are listed, enough we should do an article on them. Ike
On Jan 13, 2020, at 3:16 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote: The Southern had a bunch of modified 3-bay open hoppers for clay service. These are the ones with sorta-clamshell doors held closed by chains that were wrapped around spools on the carside. I gather they mostly were used in the Carolinas. My question is what customers did they serve? Were they just for clay or did they also haul wet phosphate rock? Have they been covered in TIES? Thanks! Hope to see some of you on Friday at the Archives. Scott Chatfield
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Re: Clay hoppers
Warren Calloway <wcalloway@...>
Most of the ones I saw in the old north state were used in service for the numerous brick companies hauling the clay use for brick manufacturing.
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Warren
On Jan 13, 2020, at 3:16 PM, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@mindspring.com> wrote:
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Clay hoppers
D. Scott Chatfield
The Southern had a bunch of modified 3-bay open hoppers for clay service. These are the ones with sorta-clamshell doors held closed by chains that were wrapped around spools on the carside. I gather they mostly were used in the Carolinas. My question is what customers did they serve? Were they just for clay or did they also haul wet phosphate rock? Have they been covered in TIES? Thanks! Hope to see some of you on Friday at the Archives. Scott Chatfield
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Re: Southern weed spraying trains in 1960s
George Eichelberger
The January 23, 1969 Mow renumbering plan shows the following old and new road numbers for the “weed killer flat cars” in service at that time.
From photos, we can see that Sou 991497 was paired with Sou 991498, …497 being the lead car doing the spraying (an engine pushed the outfit) and …498 having a pump to bring the spray mix out of specially equipped tank cars and pass it to 991497. That appears to agree with the renumbering showing 991497 renumbered from OSM-4 (a modified car) and 991498 renumbered from 117534, a standard flat car. There is no documentation of what “OSM” refers to but it may be “oil spraying machine”. In the 50s and 60s, the Southern sprayed oil on bridges thinking it retarded rust. Other than maybe accumulating dirt that attracted more water, the railroad stopped using it. Shown only as “T-413” on captions from the SRHA Ben Roberts collection, the two attached photos are of a 1920s era weed burner. (The “T” prefix does not tell us much, that refers to a “tool” car that can be about anything.) Ike PS The January SRHA archives work session is this coming weekend. If the weather permits, Norfolk Southern office car OC-8 (Sou 5) will be set on its trucks from its highway mover (along Holtzsclaw Ave beside NS) and moved to the East Chattanooga shop on Wednesday. (It MAY be enroute on the Interstates from Madison, Ill via Nashville now.)  
On Jan 9, 2020, at 3:44 PM, Alexander Smart <agfsmart@...> wrote: Begin forwarded message:
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Southern weed spraying trains in 1960s
Alexander Smart
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Strawberry Plains
Mike Pierry, Jr.
With the current issue of Ties, and Michael Turner’s excellent article as a prod,  Mike Pierry, Jr.
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Re: Medallion
Thanks for the photos! Hard to argue against them. I had no idea that these were actually a separate metal piece! I always thought that they were just painted on.
Looking at the photo on the 6144, it appears that the background for the reflective number board is also green. I've also been looking at the backgrounds for the reflective number boards on F Units and there is a clear variety I've found. On page of Diesels of the Southern Railway 1939-1982 there is a color photo of an FT, F5 (late phase F3), and F7. The FT has a white background, the F5 has a silver background, and the F7 has a green or black background. I've even seen a photo of FT 4115 with a yellow background! From the sheer volume of photos of seen of F5's, it seems that a silver background was standard. I do wonder if Southern used both green and black background, or perhaps Southern just used green and they look black like the monograms? Anybody know anything about these? -Evan Miller
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reweigh abbreviations for locations on the Southern
I would like to update/confirm the reweigh station abbreviations for the Southern I've seen documented by Richard Hendrickson based on photos in the 50's.
Is there an authoritative list that would work for 1934 in particular? Here's what Hendrickson listed based on photos of freight cars in the 50s:
Dave Bott -- Sent from David Bott's desktop pc
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Re: Medallion
Bill,
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I'd be happy to write the article if I could get to the archives. It's a challenge to head to Chattanooga for me given work schedules and a lot of trips for funerals (two aunts, one uncle and one cousin in 2019 alone, and a brother-in-law in hospice as we speak--the downside of several generations of big families). If the documentation can be scanned and shared, I'll draft an article. Getting the accurate data would sure beat having a "red roof" discussion! Dave Tuesday, January 7, 2020, 1:29:58 PM, you wrote:
On Jan 7, 2020, at 12:16 PM, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:
Black lettering. <FT Set, Atla, 1946.jpg> -- David Bott Sent from David Bott's desktop PC
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Re: Medallion
George Eichelberger
All of the various monogram drawings, and the specifications for the paint and lettering on the engines that used them are in the archives.
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Our next work session is January 17th and 18th. If time and weather permit, we will also check out Norfolk Southern office car No 8 (Southern OC-5) that should be arriving at TVRM this Thursday. It will be trucked down from Madison, Ill on Thursday, probably not arriving in Chattanooga until after dark. Assuming the route will be from Madison (E. St Louis) down the Interstate to Paducah then east to Chattanooga, maybe someone will be able to shoot a video or photo. Ike
On Jan 7, 2020, at 1:29 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote: Green lettering.
Unfortunately, too few well-lit photos of the monogram in the green era exist, and too many of those have been duplicated so many times that the color has shifted. When duplicated, the Southern green tends to go blacker with each succeeding generation. While one never says “never” when referring to Southern Railway, my sense is that the early diesels - like Carl’s photo of the black FTs when new - received cast metal monograms with black lettering and gold-ish background. The early green E-units had a similar monogram, but was its lettering black or green? When SOU standardized on all diesels being painted green, circa 1948, and when those diesels received the sheet metal monogram (instead of the cast metal one), I think it was green and (imitation) gold. I know because I owned one at one time. And look at the photo of the 0-8-0 at Alexandria - I’m betting that monogram came off a diesel, it sure looks green to me (contrasted with the black of the locomotive). This is not to say that some sheet metal monograms weren’t black and yellow, but relying on color photographs, especially if they have color shifted, can be misleading. The only way I know to describe definitively the colors of the monograms is through source information, such as drawings and correspondence. This information may be in the SRHA archives. This would make a good topic for a TIES magazine article. Does anyone want to volunteer to write an article about the colors of Southern’s monograms using authoritative source information? —Bill <Sou 2900 Lenox Rd Atlanta 1957-ish.jpeg><SOU E7 2910 arlington va ca 1953.jpg><SOU-1846-01 Alexandria early 1950s.jpeg><SOU-4144 Charlottesville-VA June 1953.jpeg>
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Re: Medallion
Bill Schafer
Green lettering.
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Unfortunately, too few well-lit photos of the monogram in the green era exist, and too many of those have been duplicated so many times that the color has shifted. When duplicated, the Southern green tends to go blacker with each succeeding generation. While one never says “never” when referring to Southern Railway, my sense is that the early diesels - like Carl’s photo of the black FTs when new - received cast metal monograms with black lettering and gold-ish background. The early green E-units had a similar monogram, but was its lettering black or green? When SOU standardized on all diesels being painted green, circa 1948, and when those diesels received the sheet metal monogram (instead of the cast metal one), I think it was green and (imitation) gold. I know because I owned one at one time. And look at the photo of the 0-8-0 at Alexandria - I’m betting that monogram came off a diesel, it sure looks green to me (contrasted with the black of the locomotive). This is not to say that some sheet metal monograms weren’t black and yellow, but relying on color photographs, especially if they have color shifted, can be misleading. The only way I know to describe definitively the colors of the monograms is through source information, such as drawings and correspondence. This information may be in the SRHA archives. This would make a good topic for a TIES magazine article. Does anyone want to volunteer to write an article about the colors of Southern’s monograms using authoritative source information? —Bill    
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