Date   

locked Re: Southern Mine Directories?

C J Wyatt
 

I have one somewhere if I can find it. I am thinking late forties, staple bound, about 20 pages. Unfortunately someone took a pair of scissors to some of the sections.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, February 13, 2020, 08:11:24 PM EST, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Evan:

I am not aware of a comprehensive coal mine directory but mines are mentioned in various documents.

The most extensive are in files about the coal pier at Charleston. Mines on the Interstate and Southern in SW VA, and how much traffic moved on the L&N are described there.

Contracts 166, 212, 244, 353, 363, 369, 379, 435, 437, 547 and the “Southern News Bulletin” (SNB) reference many mines in Alabama and Tennessee. (A list of contracts was published some time ago and I will check to see if the GRAB has DVDs with the SNBs scans in stock tomorrow. They are an excellent source of information on the Southern.)

The following photo (1 of about 30) shows the Charleston coal pier under construction July 11, 1915. In addition to loading colliers, I was surprised to find ships came to the pier just for bunker coal, a good side business for the Southern.

All of these topics would make for an interesting TIES article if someone is interested in doing the research.

Ike




On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:55 PM, Evan Miller via Groups.Io <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:

Did Southern ever publish coal mine directories? I’ve seen several published by the Virginian Railway. They list the various coal loadouts that the railroad served along with the monthly amount of cars shipped per loadout. I was wondering if Southern published something like this and if any are in the archives?

-Evan Miller


locked Re: Southern Mine Directories?

George Eichelberger
 

Evan:

I am not aware of a comprehensive coal mine directory but mines are mentioned in various documents.

The most extensive are in files about the coal pier at Charleston. Mines on the Interstate and Southern in SW VA, and how much traffic moved on the L&N are described there.

Contracts 166, 212, 244, 353, 363, 369, 379, 435, 437, 547 and the “Southern News Bulletin” (SNB) reference many mines in Alabama and Tennessee. (A list of contracts was published some time ago and I will check to see if the GRAB has DVDs with the SNBs scans in stock tomorrow. They are an excellent source of information on the Southern.)

The following photo (1 of about 30) shows the Charleston coal pier under construction July 11, 1915. In addition to loading colliers, I was surprised to find ships came to the pier just for bunker coal, a good side business for the Southern.

All of these topics would make for an interesting TIES article if someone is interested in doing the research.

Ike




On Feb 13, 2020, at 5:55 PM, Evan Miller via Groups.Io <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:

Did Southern ever publish coal mine directories? I’ve seen several published by the Virginian Railway. They list the various coal loadouts that the railroad served along with the monthly amount of cars shipped per loadout. I was wondering if Southern published something like this and if any are in the archives?

-Evan Miller


locked Southern Mine Directories?

Evan Miller
 

Did Southern ever publish coal mine directories? I’ve seen several published by the Virginian Railway. They list the various coal loadouts that the railroad served along with the monthly amount of cars shipped per loadout. I was wondering if Southern published something like this and if any are in the archives?

-Evan Miller


locked Re: To Mr. Eichelberger - Old Rail

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton
 

I have just learned something new. 

The first section is "bridge rail" which was used on "baulk road" which relied on longitudinal baulks of timer separated with transoms at about 12-15 foot centres rather than the usual closely spaced ties/sleepers to keep the gauge . In these parts we associate it with Brunel's broad gauge; some sections of baulk road survived the abolition of the broad gauge in 1892, though these went long ago. There are still several sections of bridge rail,supporting the iron water tank at my local station and it pops up occasionally in short sections having been used a post for signs or gates  . I didn't know that this type of construction was ever used in the South until now. Baulk road is still sometimes used on bridges and other places where ballasting is impracticable so perhaps it comes from a bridge site? It might be instructive to know where this was found.  

The comma shaped rail is intriguing; perhaps it's part of a crossing or switch? 

Aidrian

On Thu, Feb 13, 2020 at 2:49 AM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Might anyone on the Southern Railway io group be able to assist John?

Ike


Begin forwarded message:

From: John Dietrichs <jdietrichs@...>
Subject: To Mr. Eichelberger - Old Rail
Date: February 12, 2020 at 4:19:52 PM EST

Mr. Eichelberger – I am a collector of Civil War memorabilia, and have been fortunate to come into a quantity of early Atlanta area rail that was collected by Beverly Means DuBose, Jr., his son “Bo”, Franklin Garrett, Wilbur Kurtz and Syd Kirksis in the 1950’s and early 1960’s. I have had the sections (ranging from 42 ½” to 12” in length) cut down to 6”, 3”, 2” and 1” sections. I have done my own preliminary research, which I have attached, and a photo of the cross-sections of the rail I have. Actually, I have other rail in my collection, which also includes rail from several gold mines and coal mines – not critical here.
 
I would like to speak, if possible, to an expert on old rail, and confirm or correct my research assumptions on the 6 types of rail I believe to be CW period or earlier as seen in the first photo. I have been utterly unable to find out anything concerning the “cross-rail” piece that looks like a “P”. Jackson McQuig, Architect for the Atlanta History Center, is a rail collector, and has said it is a specialized piece that would be used where two rails cross at an angle. The “gutter” on the base is filled with a build-up of creosote, and caused my cutter problems – chewed up his circular saw blade. By the way, the last image shows a clean picture of the main types I have, plus an example of the Virginia & Truckee RR, c. 1916 style.
 
I WENT TO THE Kennesaw Museum, only to find you folks are no longer located there??
 
I would be pleased to donate a set of the 1” pieces to you, but I really do need to get an experts’ opinion on the types, etc.
 
Thanks you very much – please call anytime if you wish.
 
John
 
John A. Dietrichs
President, Atlanta Civil War Round Table 2019-2020
6810 Chapel Glen Court
Atlanta, GA 30360
770-804-9055
 
 


locked Re: To Mr. Eichelberger - Old Rail

michael lowe
 

  I am not a big Southern Rwy fan, but I thought I either saw a download of railroad track profiles on its site, the srhs or some other site. I didn't pay attention to how far back it went.
  Michael Lowe


locked Re: Industries between Morristown and Asheville.

George Eichelberger
 

SRHA is in the process of scanning ETTs in the archives and others loaned for the project. I don’t know how many ETTs and PTTs have been scanned so far but it is a large number that covers many years and different divisions. We expect to make complete sets available when the project is complete.

As always, help is needed to work on that, and other projects at this weekend’s archives work session.

Ike


On Feb 13, 2020, at 12:54 PM, Thunder via Groups.Io <t_pearson1212@...> wrote:

Thanks all! I am thinking as late as the late 70’s earliest would be 20-30’s.

I’ll look for the industry book, and the TT. 

I have been starting to collect more Southern TT’s, this gives me an excuse to get more.

Thanks again guys. 

Todd


On Feb 13, 2020, at 11:25 AM, sgwarner88@... wrote:

I used to have Industrial track book that listed all the stations.  N&W had a different system but I believe that SR used a Line MP system.  I do not recall if they listed specific industries, though, and left it in my files when I retired, not knowing that NS would later destroy most of these documents.  

I suspect that a Knoxville Division Timetable (SRHS has a file) would have many or at least some in the Industry Track section, but one would have to know the era in which you are interested.


locked Re: Industries between Morristown and Asheville.

 

Thanks all! I am thinking as late as the late 70’s earliest would be 20-30’s.

I’ll look for the industry book, and the TT. 

I have been starting to collect more Southern TT’s, this gives me an excuse to get more.

Thanks again guys. 

Todd


On Feb 13, 2020, at 11:25 AM, sgwarner88@... wrote:

I used to have Industrial track book that listed all the stations.  N&W had a different system but I believe that SR used a Line MP system.  I do not recall if they listed specific industries, though, and left it in my files when I retired, not knowing that NS would later destroy most of these documents.  

I suspect that a Knoxville Division Timetable (SRHS has a file) would have many or at least some in the Industry Track section, but one would have to know the era in which you are interested.


locked Re: To Mr. Eichelberger - Old Rail

Stephen Warner
 

The Atlanta office of MW&S AVP used to have a board displaying a "History of Southern Railway Rail".  After I left MW&S, I do not know if it survived the move to Ptree St.  Maybe Phil Ogden know?


locked Re: Industries between Morristown and Asheville.

Stephen Warner
 

I used to have Industrial track book that listed all the stations.  N&W had a different system but I believe that SR used a Line MP system.  I do not recall if they listed specific industries, though, and left it in my files when I retired, not knowing that NS would later destroy most of these documents.  

I suspect that a Knoxville Division Timetable (SRHS has a file) would have many or at least some in the Industry Track section, but one would have to know the era in which you are interested.


locked Re: Industries between Morristown and Asheville.

Allen Cain
 

Todd,

I have several Sanborn maps.  If you tell me the time period and a list of some of the main towns I may be able to help.

Allen Cain


locked Re: Industries between Morristown and Asheville.

Robert Hanson
 

Another would be an Industrial Directory, of you can find one.

It would list the businesses in each town, what they shipped/received, and, if the town was served by more than one railroad, the road on which it was located and whether or not the business was open to reciprocal switching.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim <tarumph@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Thu, Feb 13, 2020 11:27 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Industries between Morristown and Asheville.

 A good place to start is a Tennessee Division employee timetable (ETT) for the period you're interested in. Look for the "Business Tracks and Stations Not Shown ..." table near the back of the ETT. The only downfall is that won't list businesses that are in the listed towns (stations).

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


locked Re: Industries between Morristown and Asheville.

Tim
 

 A good place to start is a Tennessee Division employee timetable (ETT) for the period you're interested in. Look for the "Business Tracks and Stations Not Shown ..." table near the back of the ETT. The only downfall is that won't list businesses that are in the listed towns (stations).

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC


locked - Old Rail

Cohen Bob
 

All:

Looking at the images of the 6 types of rail, I am familiar (not an expert) on 5 of the 6 types shows, plus at least one other not shown: strap rail. That was essentially just a piece of iron flat bar, which varied in thickness and width according to the specific needs of the railroad. Those tended to deteriorate more rapidly than the others because they were placed on wood and spiked down to wood stringers longitudinally and the which was not treated deteriorated rapidly plus did not withstand increasing weights of equipment at in got larger and larger.

I know many southern railroads used it, but can't address which or when or for how long, including those in and around Atlanta. The well-known Richmond & Danville RR definitely used it and its deterioration were what caused the slow flight from Richmond by the fleeing Confederate government in April 1865.

All that said, that other thing in the photo (the sort of "P" shaped segment) is a big mystery to me. I can't picture how it was secured to the ties and suspect it was not long in use or was in use in conjunction with another similar piece of iron. I have never seen that before and will do some research exploring sources around here. I don't think I have even seen it in places like the drawings you have either and that, to me, makes its use as rail somewhat suspect since those drawings are pretty good depictions.

My 2 cents worth, not much, but I tried.

Bob Cohen


locked To Mr. Eichelberger - Old Rail

George Eichelberger
 

Might anyone on the Southern Railway io group be able to assist John?

Ike


Begin forwarded message:

From: John Dietrichs <jdietrichs@...>
Subject: To Mr. Eichelberger - Old Rail
Date: February 12, 2020 at 4:19:52 PM EST

Mr. Eichelberger – I am a collector of Civil War memorabilia, and have been fortunate to come into a quantity of early Atlanta area rail that was collected by Beverly Means DuBose, Jr., his son “Bo”, Franklin Garrett, Wilbur Kurtz and Syd Kirksis in the 1950’s and early 1960’s. I have had the sections (ranging from 42 ½” to 12” in length) cut down to 6”, 3”, 2” and 1” sections. I have done my own preliminary research, which I have attached, and a photo of the cross-sections of the rail I have. Actually, I have other rail in my collection, which also includes rail from several gold mines and coal mines – not critical here.
 
I would like to speak, if possible, to an expert on old rail, and confirm or correct my research assumptions on the 6 types of rail I believe to be CW period or earlier as seen in the first photo. I have been utterly unable to find out anything concerning the “cross-rail” piece that looks like a “P”. Jackson McQuig, Architect for the Atlanta History Center, is a rail collector, and has said it is a specialized piece that would be used where two rails cross at an angle. The “gutter” on the base is filled with a build-up of creosote, and caused my cutter problems – chewed up his circular saw blade. By the way, the last image shows a clean picture of the main types I have, plus an example of the Virginia & Truckee RR, c. 1916 style.
 
I WENT TO THE Kennesaw Museum, only to find you folks are no longer located there??
 
I would be pleased to donate a set of the 1” pieces to you, but I really do need to get an experts’ opinion on the types, etc.
 
Thanks you very much – please call anytime if you wish.
 
John
 
John A. Dietrichs
President, Atlanta Civil War Round Table 2019-2020
6810 Chapel Glen Court
Atlanta, GA 30360
770-804-9055
 
 


locked Industries between Morristown and Asheville.

 

I was curious if anyone had a list of industries between Morristown and Asheville. That line intrigued me ( oldest kid lived near it for a few years ) and I would like to know more about it.

thanks in advance 

Todd P


locked Re: Pickens Railroad "Explorer"

Doug Alexander
 

The assessment seems reasonable and well thought out, though I am reminded of one done by the US Highway Department in the late-1930's when the Pennsylvania Turnpike folks, unable to raise enough funds in the private sector, appealed to FDR for federal dollars to make the project happen.  He asked the Highway Dept for its opinion, and they said it would not be worth the cost.  They said that there would never be enough cars built to pay for the road.  FDR wanted to secure Pennsylvania's votes, so he approved it anyway.  The Reconstruction Finance Corporation loaned $32 million and the WPA granted $26 million and the pike was built.  And eventually, there were enough cars built to make it a success.

Doug Alexander
Atlanta


locked Lynchburg

RamblingReck
 

My latest NRHS Bulletin arrived a couple of days ago.  It had a very interesting article on the new Southern beltway and station in Lynchburg, circa 1911. 
--
John Ryan


locked Re: Pickens Railroad "Explorer"

Jason Greene
 

Ed,
Did it run Georgia Road to Atlanta?

Jason Greene 

On Feb 9, 2020, at 11:28 AM, Ed Mims <wemims@...> wrote:



Here is a photo that I took in the winter of 1965 as the X-plorer departed Augusta, GA. I don’t remember why is was there but know that it’s destination was Atlanta. You can see the small crowd that turned out to watch it pass by so it must have had some publicity. I don’t know why I was not at my duty station (Fort Gordon) unless this was on a Sunday. Fifty five years later I realize that I should have kept a note book but at my age then, I could remember these things.

 

Ed Mims

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 9:58 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Pickens Railroad "Explorer"

 

The SRHA Southern Presidents' files include proposals for new interurban lines, branch lines and passenger trains.

There are multiple items through 1966 that discuss operating the ex NYC "Explorer" train on the Southern. Internal memos in the file make it clear that the Southern had no interest whatsoever in the concept. (attached)

Ike

PS The next SRHA work session at the TVRM archives building is next weekend.

<The X'plorer on the Georgia Railroad near Mile Post 5 1965 (Ed Mims).tif>


locked Re: Pickens Railroad "Explorer"

Robert Hanson
 

While I never rode the train, I was told by those who did that the X-Plorer did not cover itself with glory on any of the few trips on which it was used.

Most unreliable.

Bob Hanson
Loganville, GA


-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>; Ed Mims <wemims@...>
Sent: Sun, Feb 9, 2020 1:01 pm
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Pickens Railroad "Explorer"

Here it is in 1965 on the SAL.  Evidently, the motive power wasn't too reliable.
On February 9, 2020 at 10:25 AM Ed Mims <wemims@...> wrote:

Here is a photo that I took in the winter of 1965 as the X-plorer departed Augusta, GA. I don’t remember why is was there but know that it’s destination was Atlanta. You can see the small crowd that turned out to watch it pass by so it must have had some publicity. I don’t know why I was not at my duty station (Fort Gordon) unless this was on a Sunday. Fifty five years later I realize that I should have kept a note book but at my age then, I could remember these things.
 
Ed Mims
 
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 9:58 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Pickens Railroad "Explorer"
 
The SRHA Southern Presidents' files include proposals for new interurban lines, branch lines and passenger trains.

There are multiple items through 1966 that discuss operating the ex NYC "Explorer" train on the Southern. Internal memos in the file make it clear that the Southern had no interest whatsoever in the concept. (attached)

Ike

PS The next SRHA work session at the TVRM archives building is next weekend.
 


 


locked Re: Pickens Railroad "Explorer"

Carl Ardrey
 

Here it is in 1965 on the SAL.  Evidently, the motive power wasn't too reliable.

On February 9, 2020 at 10:25 AM Ed Mims <wemims@...> wrote:

Here is a photo that I took in the winter of 1965 as the X-plorer departed Augusta, GA. I don’t remember why is was there but know that it’s destination was Atlanta. You can see the small crowd that turned out to watch it pass by so it must have had some publicity. I don’t know why I was not at my duty station (Fort Gordon) unless this was on a Sunday. Fifty five years later I realize that I should have kept a note book but at my age then, I could remember these things.

 

Ed Mims

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io [mailto:main@SouthernRailway.groups.io] On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2020 9:58 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Pickens Railroad "Explorer"

 

The SRHA Southern Presidents' files include proposals for new interurban lines, branch lines and passenger trains.

There are multiple items through 1966 that discuss operating the ex NYC "Explorer" train on the Southern. Internal memos in the file make it clear that the Southern had no interest whatsoever in the concept. (attached)

Ike

PS The next SRHA work session at the TVRM archives building is next weekend.

 



 

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