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locked Re: What was disposition of Harry Borsum's slide collection

David Payne
 



Thanks, Bill ... I should have checked the date first.
David

In a message dated 2/20/2020 2:27:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, bill4501@... writes:

No - much earlier than that. November 24, 1963. The photographer chased the train from Almond to Enka on a glorious fall day. 

Another photographer, David Salter, also chased that train - different year, I think, but same idea. Eastbound from Almond to Enka. I don’t think his images have been published, though the weather was similar to the 1963 photos.

—Bill

On Feb 20, 2020, at 2:14 PM, David Payne via Groups.Io <davidcofga@...> wrote:


Perhaps an office car special, but was that Harold Hall's "funeral train?"

David Payne


In a message dated 2/20/2020 10:57:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, jimking3@... writes:

I’ve been told he has a photo spread in Southern in Color Vol 3 showing an office car special on the Murphy Branch.  A copy of that book is in-transit to me now.


locked Re: What was disposition of Harry Borsum's slide collection

Bill Schafer
 

No - much earlier than that. November 24, 1963. The photographer chased the train from Almond to Enka on a glorious fall day. 

Another photographer, David Salter, also chased that train - different year, I think, but same idea. Eastbound from Almond to Enka. I don’t think his images have been published, though the weather was similar to the 1963 photos.

—Bill

On Feb 20, 2020, at 2:14 PM, David Payne via Groups.Io <davidcofga@...> wrote:


Perhaps an office car special, but was that Harold Hall's "funeral train?"

David Payne


In a message dated 2/20/2020 10:57:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, jimking3@... writes:

I’ve been told he has a photo spread in Southern in Color Vol 3 showing an office car special on the Murphy Branch.  A copy of that book is in-transit to me now.


locked Re: What was disposition of Harry Borsum's slide collection

C J Wyatt
 

Harry Bundy was in college back in the sixties, I believe, so no.

Jack Wyatt

On Thursday, February 20, 2020, 02:14:27 PM EST, David Payne via Groups.Io <davidcofga@...> wrote:



Perhaps an office car special, but was that Harold Hall's "funeral train?"

David Payne


In a message dated 2/20/2020 10:57:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, jimking3@... writes:

I’ve been told he has a photo spread in Southern in Color Vol 3 showing an office car special on the Murphy Branch.  A copy of that book is in-transit to me now.


locked Re: What was disposition of Harry Borsum's slide collection

David Payne
 


Perhaps an office car special, but was that Harold Hall's "funeral train?"

David Payne


In a message dated 2/20/2020 10:57:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, jimking3@... writes:

I’ve been told he has a photo spread in Southern in Color Vol 3 showing an office car special on the Murphy Branch.  A copy of that book is in-transit to me now.


locked Re: What was disposition of Harry Borsum's slide collection

Bill Schafer
 

Jim:

The office car special on the Murphy Branch was photographed by Harry Bundy, who spent a career with, and retired from, Norfolk Southern. Harry went to college in western North Carolina and is an outstanding photographer. Much of his material appears in Kurt Reisweber’s Southern Railway in Color Vol. 3. You will be happy you made this purchase. 

Kurt’s Southern Railway in Color Vol. 4 is being laid out now and will be available later in 2020. It will feature Southern trains in some of Tennessee, most of North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Illinois, Indiana, and a bit of Florida.

—Bill

On Feb 20, 2020, at 10:57 AM, Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote:

Ken Miller answered my question a few days ago re: O H (Harry) Borsum but didn’t know what happened to his slide collection.  Ken’s research indicates that Harry died in 1996 at the age of 75.  I have several of Harry’s Southern slides taken in Monroe during the late 60s and have seen his photos in several books, including SOU and N&W related ones.  He was an avid passenger train/car photographer.  I’ve been told he has a photo spread in Southern in Color Vol 3 showing an office car special on the Murphy Branch.  A copy of that book is in-transit to me now.
 
Does someone know what happened to Harry’s slide collection?  Did Morning Sun buy it?
 
Jim King
 

-- 
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com


locked What was disposition of Harry Borsum's slide collection

Jim King
 

Ken Miller answered my question a few days ago re: O H (Harry) Borsum but didn’t know what happened to his slide collection.  Ken’s research indicates that Harry died in 1996 at the age of 75.  I have several of Harry’s Southern slides taken in Monroe during the late 60s and have seen his photos in several books, including SOU and N&W related ones.  He was an avid passenger train/car photographer.  I’ve been told he has a photo spread in Southern in Color Vol 3 showing an office car special on the Murphy Branch.  A copy of that book is in-transit to me now.

 

Does someone know what happened to Harry’s slide collection?  Did Morning Sun buy it?

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com


locked Re: Need number series help

Michael Young
 

So that proves Shakespeare was wrong.  A rose by any other name might NOT smell as sweet.
Mike Young


-----Original Message-----
From: sgwarner88 <sgwarner88@...>
To: main <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Feb 19, 2020 11:44 am
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Need number series help

Ike,  In conversation with someone in the Law Dept probably over a decade ago, I was told that Southern Railway Company was renamed as Norfolk Southern Corp.,  and that N&W was merged into SR/NSC.  As so, one could say that SR still survives, only under a different name.   You could confirm with Jim Howe, of course.
Stephen


locked Re: Need number series help

Stephen Warner
 

Scott.  My understanding from past conversations with NS Law, is that N&W was merged into NSC, and I thus made all of my Operating Agreements under the name of Norfolk Southern Railway Company (as a subsidiary of NSC).  Similar to CNO&TP, AGS, etc.  For example, with the sale of the Tenn. RR. to National Coal, I made that agreement with NCRR among CNO&TP, TRR (NS owned), and NCRR.  NSC as holding company was not a part of any operating agreements that I made.  Of course, NSR registered NS as a reporting mark, although I ASSUME that equipment is owned or leased by NSR, rather than NSC.  While since '64, I always believed that there was a merger among N&W, Wabash, and NKP,  I later found out that N&W LEASED the Wabash and merged with the NKP.  That was evidently, as I understood it, a true lease. 
Stephen


locked Re: Need number series help

Stephen Warner
 

Ike,  In conversation with someone in the Law Dept probably over a decade ago, I was told that Southern Railway Company was renamed as Norfolk Southern Corp.,  and that N&W was merged into SR/NSC.  As so, one could say that SR still survives, only under a different name.   You could confirm with Jim Howe, of course.
Stephen


locked Re: Need number series help

Jim King
 

Thanks, Darryl.  That’s what I needed to finish kit instructions.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com


locked Re: Need number series help

Jim King
 

If a piece of equipment wears SOUTHERN on the side, then I consider it to be a “Southern” car regardless of corporate structure.  From memory, I didn’t see my first NS repainted diesel until 1984-85.  Other than consolidation of service points, yards, etc. and changes in freight train schedules, I saw no appreciable indication of the NS merger for a few years, which is why most of “shooters” were making a BIG effort to capture as much as we could.  Retirement of older power en masse (SD35s and SD45s come to mind) also reduced what we could see trackside.  I’m glad I shot what I did, including cars and cabooses.  The last Southern-painted engine I shot was on Asheville’s South Local in 1992.

 

Cars that didn’t interchange often, like chip hoppers, bypassed the paint shop most of their lives after initial construction, excepting “patch over” stenciling reflecting car shop visits and AAR changes.  Yes, some were repainted but not at the same frequency as interchanging cars (boxcars, in particular).  Until last year when NS sold a BUNCH of chip hoppers to WATCO and D J Joseph, Southern-stenciled cars last painted in the early/mid 80s were still common, just VERY ratty looking usually.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com


locked Southern Railway Yard Drawings

Allen Cain
 

I am starting to design a new HO layout and would like to study various Southern yards in the 1950-55 period.

Did a Google search but did not turn up any useful info.

Can anyone steer me toward a source for drawings or photos showing the track layout and service facilities?

Thanks,

Allen Cain


locked Re: Need number series help

Sam Smith
 

Scott,
Say whatever you like, but, for me, the world as we knew it, ended when the first Southern Railway piece of equipment got a N.S. sticker slapped across it......😢😢🤬🤬😠😠

Samuel Smith
LONG LIVE THE SOUTHERN


On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 5:23 PM, D. Scott Chatfield
<blindog@...> wrote:
The Southern Railway System leased the Norfolk & Western Railway at the end of 1990, and then the Southern's formal name was changed to Norfolk Southern Railway.  This is the end date of the Southern Railway and the beginning of the use of NS reporting marks on all equipment, and new combined number series for freight cars.


Scott Chatfield


George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Jim's question begs another....

As the Southern never had GS50, or any other car classes and the NS merger occurred in 1982, when should we consider the Southern Railway System "gone"? I realize "NS" was set up to be a holding company with the SR and NS as mol separate operations but that did not last for very long. With that logic, can we say the Southern still existed in late 1985?

Ike 


locked Re: Need number series help

D. Scott Chatfield
 

The Southern Railway System leased the Norfolk & Western Railway at the end of 1990, and then the Southern's formal name was changed to Norfolk Southern Railway.  This is the end date of the Southern Railway and the beginning of the use of NS reporting marks on all equipment, and new combined number series for freight cars.


Scott Chatfield


George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Jim's question begs another....

As the Southern never had GS50, or any other car classes and the NS merger occurred in 1982, when should we consider the Southern Railway System "gone"? I realize "NS" was set up to be a holding company with the SR and NS as mol separate operations but that did not last for very long. With that logic, can we say the Southern still existed in late 1985?

Ike 


locked Re: Need number series help

darrell2010
 

Jim,

I show SOU 139564 as being from 139495-139724 (230 cars) built by GSC Order 1234.

Darrell Sawyer



On Tuesday, February 18, 2020, 10:20:03 AM MST, Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote:


What is the number series for SOU GS50 wood chip hoppers built 9 and 10-85?  I have “bookend” pix of 139559 and 139704 but don’t know the beginning and ending numbers.  Attached is a shot of a car in this group that’s just 3 months old.  Thanks.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com


locked Re: Need number series help

George Eichelberger
 

Jim's question begs another....

As the Southern never had GS50, or any other car classes and the NS merger occurred in 1982, when should we consider the Southern Railway System "gone"? I realize "NS" was set up to be a holding company with the SR and NS as mol separate operations but that did not last for very long. With that logic, can we say the Southern still existed in late 1985?

Ike 


locked Need number series help

Jim King
 

What is the number series for SOU GS50 wood chip hoppers built 9 and 10-85?  I have “bookend” pix of 139559 and 139704 but don’t know the beginning and ending numbers.  Attached is a shot of a car in this group that’s just 3 months old.  Thanks.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com


locked Re: Industries between Morristown and Asheville.

 

Thanks Evan! I think I have that one in the collection. 

Time to go look.

Todd


On Feb 15, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Evan Miller via Groups.Io <nsrailfan82@...> wrote:

In Diesels of the Southern Railway 1939-1982, there is a photo on page 53 of NW2 2280 and TR2B 2454 working the Jefferson City Zinc mine on August 14, 1958. On page 52 it shows the two engines on a local south of Jefferson City. Just behind the engines are about 12 empty hoppers and some other freight cars further back.

-Evan Miller


locked The End of Automatic Train Stop on the Southeren

George Eichelberger
 

This weekend’s SRHA archives work session was particularly well attended and productive. There are enough projects in progress that people simply arrive and pick up where they left off on their last visit.

We continue to go through the Southern Railway Presidents’ files looking for potential TIES articles and subjects that may be of interest to SRHA members. Box 634, Files 11,423 and 11,424 discuss “CTC”.

A recurring question from modelers is “when did the Southern remove Automatic Train Stop (ATS) hardware from its locomotives?” I recount what was told to me by Mr. John Smith of the Southern and NS C&S Departments years ago….essentially, the Southern offered to replace all of its semaphore type signals with color light signals IF they would be allowed to stop using ATS. (Described as an “automatic intermittent train-stop system”. “Intermittent" because the system relied on induction coils adjacent to signals that would apply train brakes if an equipped locomotive passed a restrictive signal. A problem being that when ATS applied train brakes, it had already violated its track authority by passing the signal.)

As John told the story, the letter accepting the arrangement from the FRA arrived on a Friday afternoon. D.W. Brosnan was so concerned they would change their mind, he ordered that ALL ATS equipment on the Southern Railway be removed BEFORE Monday morning. With a massive effort, that was the end of ATS on the Southern. Certainly a good story and a sleepless weekend for the C&S and mechanical Dept forces.

A memo explaining the arrangement to SR President Claytor dated April 15, 1970 describes how complex the “deal” was. It involved single tracking the Washington-Atlanta main line, installing mirrors inside diesel cabs so engineers could see signals when running long hood forward, replacing semaphores with color light types and maintaining various accounting records. (The FRA letter that resulted in the weekend effort, with an exact date has not been located.)

Ike


locked Re: Southern Mine Directories?

D. Scott Chatfield
 

I gather some Alabama coal even made it as far west as the Colorado Fuel & Iron steel mill near Pueblo, Colorado.  I gather this didn't happen until the '60s, and perhaps was done only because mines in southern Colorado owned by CF&I were either on strike or had played out.  CF&I opened the Jensen Mine west of Trinidad by 1970 which supplied most of the mill's coal in later years.

The reports of Alabama coal to CF&I showed it moving in L&N hoppers.  Haven't heard of any Southern hoppers getting out there, but you know what "they" say....


Scott Chatfield

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