Date   

locked Re: E8 Questions

Jason Greene
 

1. The first order (2923-2929) did not have rooftop air tanks. The second group (6906-6915) built with the air tanks. 
2. Second group delivered in 1953, first group rebuilt when painted black in mid-50s
3. Both water for the steam generators. 
4. E8s became the primary passenger power and E6-7s were traded in. No need to convert them as the ones rostered later we’re not primary power for long distance trains. The were used to add HP. E8s with two steam generators per unit could keep up with needed steam. 

Jason Greene 

On Apr 12, 2020, at 6:08 PM, Curtis Brookshire via groups.io <curtis.brookshire@...> wrote:

I have a few questions regarding SR E8s. NCTM is closed right now and I do not have the Withers Diesel book to reference, so I must inquire from the diesel historians here.
1. Were the E8s delivered without the rooftop air tanks and extra water tanks flanking the fuel tank? I'm under the impression they were.
2. If so, when were they converted? I saw plans for ceiling mounted water tanks used in F3s dated 1952 so I guess the E8s might have been around then.
3. There were two oval tanks flanking the fuel tank, one fore and the other aft. Were they both for water or was one for steam boiler fuel?
4. Why did they configure the E8s and some F units with rooftop air tanks and extra water tanks and not the E7s or E6s (or did some also get this conversion)? Did the E8 steam boilers use more fuel/water?
Stay well everyone,
Curtis Brookshire
Pine Level, NC


locked E8 Questions

Curtis Brookshire
 

I have a few questions regarding SR E8s. NCTM is closed right now and I do not have the Withers Diesel book to reference, so I must inquire from the diesel historians here.
1. Were the E8s delivered without the rooftop air tanks and extra water tanks flanking the fuel tank? I'm under the impression they were.
2. If so, when were they converted? I saw plans for ceiling mounted water tanks used in F3s dated 1952 so I guess the E8s might have been around then.
3. There were two oval tanks flanking the fuel tank, one fore and the other aft. Were they both for water or was one for steam boiler fuel?
4. Why did they configure the E8s and some F units with rooftop air tanks and extra water tanks and not the E7s or E6s (or did some also get this conversion)? Did the E8 steam boilers use more fuel/water?
Stay well everyone,
Curtis Brookshire
Pine Level, NC


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

David Payne
 


Yes, that's the way it was explained to me.
DPayne


In a message dated 4/12/2020 11:27:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, deltabourque@... writes:

Are you saying the 100T 4-bays were called "little reds" while the earlier 100T 6-bays were "big reds?"


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Daniel Bourque
 

David, 

Are you saying the 100T 4-bays were called "little reds" while the earlier 100T 6-bays were "big reds?" 

I know in the Appalachia, VA area the 50T hoppers were called "blacks" in the late '60s/70s (you see "blacks" and "reds" on track charts denoting track capacities--a lot of the "blacks" were ex-Interstate RR cars) while 50 and 70T cars in shuttle service to the big transloader were collectively called "yellow balls" (they had a big yellow dot painted on them)--do you know if the Southern had a nickname for the 70T, 3-bay hoppers?

Dan


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of David Payne via groups.io <davidcofga@...>
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2020 9:20 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Mystery Hopper Class
 

I've heard these referred to as "Little Reds" inside 99 Spring Street in the late sixties/seventies.  Both types would be routed to Plant Yates in west central Georgia hauling "straggler" coal (compared to unit train coal).
David Payne


In a message dated 4/12/2020 9:31:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, deltabourque@... writes:

Later cars, built by other manufacturers


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

David Payne
 


I've heard these referred to as "Little Reds" inside 99 Spring Street in the late sixties/seventies.  Both types would be routed to Plant Yates in west central Georgia hauling "straggler" coal (compared to unit train coal).
David Payne


In a message dated 4/12/2020 9:31:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, deltabourque@... writes:

Later cars, built by other manufacturers


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Daniel Bourque
 

Justin, Evan,

The earlier P-S cars were definitely considered Big Reds—they were the original Big Reds as they dwarfed the 70T cars. The number of ribs also corresponds with the number of bays. The earliest Big Reds, built by P-S in 1964, were 6-bay, 4003 cu ft, 20-panel cars and numbered 75000-76599. Later cars, built by other manufacturers including Greenville Steel Car, were 4-bay, 3600 cu ft, 18-panel cars; numbers included 76600-77199, 77200-77799, 77800-78399, 78400-78799, 351062-351861, 390000-390499. There may be more series of the latter car.

Dan Bourque

On Apr 12, 2020, at 5:59 AM, Justin May <westpointroute@gmail.com> wrote:

Evan,
The "Big Reds" look like they were constructed by Thrall in 1972,
though a Pullman-Standard car (20 panels compared to 18 panels on the
Thrall car) were constructed as early as 1964 and 1966. Forgive my
ignorance on these groups, and I'm not sure if the Pullman Standard
cars would be included in the term.

SOU 75000-75799, 5/1964, Pullman Standard
SOU 75800-76599, 9/1966, Pullman Standard

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou75047&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou76070&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou75309&o=sou

Justin May

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:19 PM Evan Miller via groups.io
<nsrailfan82=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks for the builders photos Justin. Didn’t know they had red trucks as well. Southern sure loved to have lettering all over their coal cars! I’ve never seen another railroad with as much data and warnings on theirs as Southern had.

When were the first Big Reds delivered by the way?

-Evan Miller

On Apr 10, 2020, at 7:49 PM, Justin May <westpointroute@gmail.com> wrote:

Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.
Pullman Standard builders photos -

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou78802&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou79263&o=sou

Justin May





locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Justin May
 

Evan,
The "Big Reds" look like they were constructed by Thrall in 1972,
though a Pullman-Standard car (20 panels compared to 18 panels on the
Thrall car) were constructed as early as 1964 and 1966. Forgive my
ignorance on these groups, and I'm not sure if the Pullman Standard
cars would be included in the term.

SOU 75000-75799, 5/1964, Pullman Standard
SOU 75800-76599, 9/1966, Pullman Standard

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou75047&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou76070&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou75309&o=sou

Justin May

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:19 PM Evan Miller via groups.io
<nsrailfan82=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks for the builders photos Justin. Didn’t know they had red trucks as well. Southern sure loved to have lettering all over their coal cars! I’ve never seen another railroad with as much data and warnings on theirs as Southern had.

When were the first Big Reds delivered by the way?

-Evan Miller

On Apr 10, 2020, at 7:49 PM, Justin May <westpointroute@gmail.com> wrote:


Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.
Pullman Standard builders photos -

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou78802&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou79263&o=sou

Justin May




locked Re: Southern Ps-4 picture info

C J Wyatt
 

I believe it made it easier to reach the water spout, though that practice was not common on other roads. In my opinion, it probably helped to keep one's feet dry when the water overflowed the tender tank.

Jack Wyatt

On Saturday, April 11, 2020, 03:22:36 PM EDT, Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:


What is the platform on the back deck of the tender?


locked Re: Southern Ps-4 picture info

Charles Powell
 

What is the platform on the back deck of the tender?


locked Re: E-6 B upgrades

C J Wyatt
 

No, they got portholes and other doodad's.

See attached photo.

Jack Wyatt

On Saturday, April 11, 2020, 12:58:13 PM EDT, Doug Alexander <doug_alexander@...> wrote:


Hey, I'm wondering about the E6-B units that remained in service into the 60's.  My understanding is that they were upgraded internally to E-8 standards, though outside they still looked like E-6's.
--
Doug Alexander
Atlanta


locked E-6 B upgrades

Doug Alexander
 

Hey, I'm wondering about the E6-B units that remained in service into the 60's.  My understanding is that they were upgraded internally to E-8 standards, though outside they still looked like E-6's.
--
Doug Alexander
Atlanta


locked Re: Southern Office Car 21 file.

George Eichelberger
 

Allan:

It may have been OC-5 when you rode it.

You are certainly correct about being “plain”. One of the really interesting things about the Hayne Shop file is the series of “as-built” interior photos. OC-X/21/5 is the only car so well documented. We will back date the car somewhat but not to the point of ripping out all of the modifications done while it was Sou 5 or NS 8.

The outside swing hanger trucks in lieu of the original Pullman are documented in the file. Unfortunately, the prior owner sold them. The folks at Norfolk Southern were looking to see what they had at Altoona that might be donated or sold but no word on that yet. TVRM acquired a good set of Pullman style trucks (made in Canada) from the Western MD Scenic. We’d want different trucks to run the car off of TVRM trackage but they will be fine for now. (Anybody that can help acquire a set of swing hanger trucks..please contact me or TVRM!)

One item we will include in the restoration (if cost allows) is the red leather upholstery. The PO in the file lists two “hides”. Hayne did all of the work necessary to finish them for the sofa and chairs in the dining/office section.

Ike

On Apr 11, 2020, at 11:21 AM, Harry Paul <hapaul117@gmail.com> wrote:

Ike: Many thanks for the link. I got to work on and ride several Southern offices cars during my RR career, both in company and private ownership. Also several of the former Southern cars after they followed Mr. Crane to Conrail. However I don’t believe the 21 was one of them. Since most of the cars were very similar inside and out I will be very interested to see the 21 file and how it compares with the Southern cars I did work on. They were plain cars when compared to some other railroads. But rode really well, particularly the ones that got 6 wheel outside swing hanger trucks with truck mounted brake cylinders, and were well maintained in the Southern days.

Thanks for all you have done and continue to do to preserve and interpret the Southern’s wonderful history. Stay healthy and keep washing those hands!! Allan.
On Apr 11, 2020, at 10:54 AM, george eichelberger <geichelberger@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Allan:

If you’ll simply paste the following Google Drive link into your browser’s address line, it will take you directly to the file.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12X09OwiAjBENPKgFXq2hfClh5vBvcfsD?usp=sharing

Note the file starts when the Southern took “Point Richmond” off the Pullman lease and began its conversion to Office Car “X”. It changed numbers several times but it is being restored as Southern 21 as the years it carried that number corresponds to many of the pieces of Southern passenger equipment at TVRM. Some of the mechanical topics you’ll see are not going to be restored in that form; no batteries or axle driven generator for example as the car has it own generator, purchased and upgraded by the Southern.

Join us at a SRHA work session, we typically take time to go to the TVRM shop to check on the car’s progress.

Ike



On Apr 11, 2020, at 9:56 AM, Harry Paul <hapaul117@gmail.com> wrote:

I enjoyed reading about the recent acquisition and movement of former Southern Railway Office Car 21 to the TVRM in the latest issue of “Amongst Ourselves”. I would appreciate receiving the link mentioned in the article to view details of the car’s conversion at Hayne Shops.

Thank you. Allan Paul.

Sent from my iPhone



locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Evan Miller
 

Thanks for the builders photos Justin. Didn’t know they had red trucks as well. Southern sure loved to have lettering all over their coal cars! I’ve never seen another railroad with as much data and warnings on theirs as Southern had.

When were the first Big Reds delivered by the way?

-Evan Miller

On Apr 10, 2020, at 7:49 PM, Justin May <westpointroute@gmail.com> wrote:


Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.
Pullman Standard builders photos -

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou78802&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou79263&o=sou

Justin May


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Thanks Darrell.  Next time I'm at the archives I'll see if we have the NCP folders for these cars.


Scott Chatfield


locked Re: Future Wax Use

George Eichelberger
 

Curtis:

Thanks for the info!

Ike


On Apr 10, 2020, at 6:39 PM, Curtis Brookshire via groups.io <curtis.brookshire@...> wrote:

Re: ModelingTheSouthern: I found it. It's a subgroup. Look at your io.groups menu while logged in to this site and click on "subgroups". You should find ModelingTheSouthern. 
Good luck,
Curtis Brookshire
Pine Level, NC


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Justin May
 

Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.
Pullman Standard builders photos -

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou78802&o=sou
http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi-bin/image.pl?i=sou79263&o=sou

Justin May


locked Re: Future Wax Use

Curtis Brookshire
 

Re: ModelingTheSouthern: I found it. It's a subgroup. Look at your io.groups menu while logged in to this site and click on "subgroups". You should find ModelingTheSouthern. 
Good luck,
Curtis Brookshire
Pine Level, NC


locked Re: Future Wax Use

Almufti Hishman
 

Hi Allen,

There is a Southern Modeler's group on Groups.io

SouthernRailway | ModelingTheSouthern

I would be happy to tell you there that I mostly brush Future, it levels well and dries thin.

Regards,
Jeff Oliver


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Stephen Warner
 

I do remember these 78 and 79 thousand hoppers, and rerailed more than I cared to, since my territory was a major Sou. coal route.  The first design, if you looked closely at the truck location (not in these pix, these came later), had one axle on each end jutting out past the car end.  I always understood that this was changed because the truck spacing matched the rail joint spacing (before CWR) and allowed too much harmonic rocking action/derailments on our old, battered joints.  This was especially bad on the curves on the TB/St. Charles Line 100LB AC rail.  The other thing as that they wore the rail badly - I could always hear them squealing on the sharp curves, much louder (and heavier) than the Silversides. SR tried steering trucks, but it added too much Tare Wt. and created overload potential since exactly 100 M's plus tare equaled 286K, but just a minute too long at a flood loader would have a 290K or more car, overweight. I proved this to Mr. Rose, which he already suspected.  These pix bring back a lot of memories.


locked Re: Mystery Hopper Class

Stuart Thayer
 

Evan,

You are correct.  These would have been considered PS3's.  PS3 was nomenclature used by Pullman-Standard for all open top hoppers just like PS1 was nomenclature for all boxcars.

Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 4/10/2020 5:29:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, nsrailfan82@... writes:

Thanks everyone! I’m assuming these are 100 ton PS-3’s, but perhaps built to Southern specs? L&N had plenty of PS-3’s but theirs had a different slope angle and more panels/ribs.

-Evan Miller

On Apr 10, 2020, at 4:12 PM, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

According to the diagram book these cars 78800-79299 were built by PS in 1975
Fenton

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 4:06 PM darrell2010 via groups.io <darrell2010=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Good memory. SOU 78800-79299, PS, Lot 9883, 7=8/75.

Darrell Sawyer



On Friday, April 10, 2020, 02:03:17 PM MDT, D. Scott Chatfield <blindog@...> wrote:


Pullman-Standard, if memory serves.  Not ex-CG.


Scott Chatfield


"Evan Miller via groups.io" <nsrailfan82=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hello everyone, I was looking though the photos on the Southern Railfan photo archives and these hoppers I've linked below caught my attention.  Would anyone happen to have any information regarding this class? They lasted long enough into the NS era to receive the designation of HS-22. I know they can't be from Southern's massive fleet of 3 bay 70 tonners built in the 50's. They're not the 3 bay  Committee Design cars. And they are not the 3 bay Greenville cars that were built just before the merger. Perhaps Southern received these before switching to the Big Red design?
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79121.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/78959.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79235.jpg
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/freight/hop/79219.jpg
-Evan Miller

 




--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...

1261 - 1280 of 2245