Date   

locked Re: Southern Railway History

John Stewart
 

Hi folks

Not sure about the two addenda but the 1901 tome may be found online and downloaded

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL


locked Re: TIES

A&Y Dave in MD
 

It sounds to me like the association has several goals. I think it would be helpful to separate the association goals and not assume one size fits all. Those individuals with the means to fund capital campaigns are often different than those who are dedicated to the preservation or learning through volunteer work, and different again from many people who are interested casually in learning. Each can contribute if you ask them the right way.

SRHA may need a capital campaign to support the educational and preservation mission. There is not likely a sustainable commercial market for historical data that would support the kinds of spending for archive space and scanning equipment documented below. Trying to link that level of financial burden to products for people casually interested in learning just ends those people’s interest. They find a new interest, are left dissatisfied, and/or a negative impression.

Volunteers do work because they feel they are contributing to a valued goal. Their time should be honored and recognized, but not considered part of the balance sheet.

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Aug 23, 2021, at 10:14 AM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Bob:

SRHA BOD members discuss options to access SRHA archives materials remotely constantly. Until this point, because we have moved the archives at least a half-dozen times in 25 or so years (and dealt with years of limited access at Kennesaw for nearly half of that), the work to undertake large-scale scanning has only been under way for a few years...limited by Covid.

Now, that we are getting to the point where we are getting materials organized and scanned AND are working to put the technology in place to scan, store and distribute drawings and documents we are closer to the time when we want to move from “discussing options” to being able to provide more of our material remotely. (BTW, virtually every aspect of the SRHA archives we have today, quality of the facility, access, location, etc. is the result of SRHA’s relationship with TVRM. Our experience since moving to Chattanooga and discussions with multiple other railroad historical groups convinces us the SRHA archives is in as good a situation as any other group…..for the present and long term!)

(Note!!: We purchased, received, and setup a large format color scanner this past weekend…cost about $8,000. Donations to defray that expense are certainly welcome! Even for people that could never visit the archives, archives donations and SRHA membership, are meaningful ways to support SRHA’s/TVRM's efforts to preserve SR history.)

Rather than try to list anything as pro or con reasons for making material available remotely on a larger scale, let me simply pose some (of my own) comments and ask for everyone’s opinions and feedback:

Re: "and all of the scanned material at the archive even) should be a benefit of membership”:
Almost the entire amount of SRHA member “dues” pays to print and mail “TIES”. (Revenue from hobby shop sales goes directly to White River.)

Said differently, SRHA membership monies have been a very small factor in acquiring, moving or housing our collections for more than 30 years. Some dollar amounts may be useful: SRHA has paid more than $100,000 for purchased collections and probably about the same amount to pack, move and store them. (Note that this does not include travel, truck rentals, storage fees, etc. that were donated by individuals.) Those amounts came from a combination of Grab sales and cash donations….not annual membership fees. (SRHA member donations that helped TVRM purchase the archives building are in the area of $400,000.)

Add to those dollar costs the many hours of work by SRHA volunteers over those 25+ years and ask the question, “How much of a "free ride” should be available today? How do we deal with those questions and make archives material available to Southern Railway modelers, researchers and historians?

Re: Scanning and organizing….
….are labor intensive, boring and even mind numbing tasks. How can they be done to develop digital archives? (We could bring in, and pay, people to do that work but how would that be funded?)

I think this is enough for everyone to get the idea of the kinds of questions and issue we are dealing with. Comments and ideas are welcome, either via the .io groups or to archives@....

Ike



On Aug 23, 2021, at 7:22 AM, Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:

still have a few dozen from my dad and they are a fascinating look into the past.   However….

I am not sure I would buy more than a few because I have enough stuff and as they are interesting I am not sure I really wanna read an entire year of the magazine without knowing some content and that is even more work than scanning and mailing.  Is this a fund raising venture for the SHRA or just being provided as a service to the community with cost recovery?

If its just a service I will suggest another avenue.  Since I live 500 miles from TVRM and would rarely get a chance to come dig through the archive  I think a web publication available to all SHRA members of the material ( and all of the scanned material at the archive even) should be a benefit of membership.  I’d feel very comfortable raising the yearly dues ($1-$10?) to pay for it.  I would also like to upload some of my father’s material for all members to see rather than sitting in my basement.  I’d guess alot of members would contribute also.

I’d like to know what our new SHRA webmaster thinks of a searchable database of material from the archive as it becomes available where all
members could log in and view it.  

-Rob

 


locked Re: TIES

George Eichelberger
 

Bob:

SRHA BOD members discuss options to access SRHA archives materials remotely constantly. Until this point, because we have moved the archives at least a half-dozen times in 25 or so years (and dealt with years of limited access at Kennesaw for nearly half of that), the work to undertake large-scale scanning has only been under way for a few years...limited by Covid.

Now, that we are getting to the point where we are getting materials organized and scanned AND are working to put the technology in place to scan, store and distribute drawings and documents we are closer to the time when we want to move from “discussing options” to being able to provide more of our material remotely. (BTW, virtually every aspect of the SRHA archives we have today, quality of the facility, access, location, etc. is the result of SRHA’s relationship with TVRM. Our experience since moving to Chattanooga and discussions with multiple other railroad historical groups convinces us the SRHA archives is in as good a situation as any other group…..for the present and long term!)

(Note!!: We purchased, received, and setup a large format color scanner this past weekend…cost about $8,000. Donations to defray that expense are certainly welcome! Even for people that could never visit the archives, archives donations and SRHA membership, are meaningful ways to support SRHA’s/TVRM's efforts to preserve SR history.)

Rather than try to list anything as pro or con reasons for making material available remotely on a larger scale, let me simply pose some (of my own) comments and ask for everyone’s opinions and feedback:

Re: "and all of the scanned material at the archive even) should be a benefit of membership”:
Almost the entire amount of SRHA member “dues” pays to print and mail “TIES”. (Revenue from hobby shop sales goes directly to White River.)

Said differently, SRHA membership monies have been a very small factor in acquiring, moving or housing our collections for more than 30 years. Some dollar amounts may be useful: SRHA has paid more than $100,000 for purchased collections and probably about the same amount to pack, move and store them. (Note that this does not include travel, truck rentals, storage fees, etc. that were donated by individuals.) Those amounts came from a combination of Grab sales and cash donations….not annual membership fees. (SRHA member donations that helped TVRM purchase the archives building are in the area of $400,000.)

Add to those dollar costs the many hours of work by SRHA volunteers over those 25+ years and ask the question, “How much of a "free ride” should be available today? How do we deal with those questions and make archives material available to Southern Railway modelers, researchers and historians?

Re: Scanning and organizing….
….are labor intensive, boring and even mind numbing tasks. How can they be done to develop digital archives? (We could bring in, and pay, people to do that work but how would that be funded?)

I think this is enough for everyone to get the idea of the kinds of questions and issue we are dealing with. Comments and ideas are welcome, either via the .io groups or to archives@....

Ike



On Aug 23, 2021, at 7:22 AM, Rob Wingo <robertawingo@...> wrote:

still have a few dozen from my dad and they are a fascinating look into the past.   However….

I am not sure I would buy more than a few because I have enough stuff and as they are interesting I am not sure I really wanna read an entire year of the magazine without knowing some content and that is even more work than scanning and mailing.  Is this a fund raising venture for the SHRA or just being provided as a service to the community with cost recovery?

If its just a service I will suggest another avenue.  Since I live 500 miles from TVRM and would rarely get a chance to come dig through the archive  I think a web publication available to all SHRA members of the material ( and all of the scanned material at the archive even) should be a benefit of membership.  I’d feel very comfortable raising the yearly dues ($1-$10?) to pay for it.  I would also like to upload some of my father’s material for all members to see rather than sitting in my basement.  I’d guess alot of members would contribute also.

I’d like to know what our new SHRA webmaster thinks of a searchable database of material from the archive as it becomes available where all
members could log in and view it.  

-Rob

 


locked Re: TIES

Preston Clark
 

I Agreed, overall, the more data we can get in a digital, searchable, format the better and cheaper it will be for all us modelers and enthusiasts. I know everyone is different, but I appreciate all space savings I get as well and digital helps with this as well!

Preston Clark


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Marv Clemons <mclemonsjr@...>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 9:13 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] TIES
 
A great idea, especially if scanned in searchable PDF format and uploaded to the website and/or flash drive.

Marv Clemons


locked Re: TIES

Michael Roderick
 

I agree with what is being discussed. I think we could change the membership dues to reflect those that would do a lot of research and having that access to the digital archives as a benefit. Those that don’t due a lot of  research could stay at the current membership rate and pay as need fee for accessing the digital archives. As for the Ties Magazine going Digital I think we should do them in 10 year increments this way people can choose which group they want.

 

Mike Roderick

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Marv Clemons
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 09:14
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] TIES

 

A great idea, especially if scanned in searchable PDF format and uploaded to the website and/or flash drive.

Marv Clemons


locked Re: TIES

aramsay18
 

I agree with the suggestion to make the entire archive (for all years) available in a digital form such as PDF.  It is essential IMHO that a digital archive be searchable.  I would prefer a download distribution.  I want to be able to search across the complete archive.  I would also want to be able to search individual issues.  Also to be able to browse all issues by year and month.  Should this project be undertaken, I will volunteer to help work out functional (user) requirements.  I would also help work out the structure and format for its digital distribution.

Andy Ramsay
Berryville VA

On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 8:29 AM Paul Spilman <soumodeler@...> wrote:
Great idea, but it needs to be done the right way. Doing one CD per year? No thanks. It would be better to offer the entire collection as one digital download, on a flash drive, or at worst, data DVDs. 

A large number of laptops now do not come with a disc drive at all. A lot of people rely solely on a tablet now. Physical copies of digital media are dying. Why not just eliminate the issue and make it compatible with nearly any device from the beginning? 

If you do it digitally, I guess you could sell one year at a time, but that would be annoying to someone who wants the entire archive, which I expect a lot of people would want, such as myself. 

Additionally, having it as one complete collection would make for a much more useful index, which is a very important aspect of offering something like this. The Model Railroader archive would be way less valuable without the ability to search it, as an example. 

Finally, price. It would need to be very reasonably priced for most people to see the value in buying it. 

Paul Spilman


locked Re: TIES

Marv Clemons
 

A great idea, especially if scanned in searchable PDF format and uploaded to the website and/or flash drive.

Marv Clemons


locked Re: TIES

Paul Spilman
 

Great idea, but it needs to be done the right way. Doing one CD per year? No thanks. It would be better to offer the entire collection as one digital download, on a flash drive, or at worst, data DVDs. 

A large number of laptops now do not come with a disc drive at all. A lot of people rely solely on a tablet now. Physical copies of digital media are dying. Why not just eliminate the issue and make it compatible with nearly any device from the beginning? 

If you do it digitally, I guess you could sell one year at a time, but that would be annoying to someone who wants the entire archive, which I expect a lot of people would want, such as myself. 

Additionally, having it as one complete collection would make for a much more useful index, which is a very important aspect of offering something like this. The Model Railroader archive would be way less valuable without the ability to search it, as an example. 

Finally, price. It would need to be very reasonably priced for most people to see the value in buying it. 

Paul Spilman


locked Re: TIES

Rob Wingo
 

still have a few dozen from my dad and they are a fascinating look into the past.   However….

I am not sure I would buy more than a few because I have enough stuff and as they are interesting I am not sure I really wanna read an entire year of the magazine without knowing some content and that is even more work than scanning and mailing.  Is this a fund raising venture for the SHRA or just being provided as a service to the community with cost recovery?

If its just a service I will suggest another avenue.  Since I live 500 miles from TVRM and would rarely get a chance to come dig through the archive  I think a web publication available to all SHRA members of the material ( and all of the scanned material at the archive even) should be a benefit of membership.  I’d feel very comfortable raising the yearly dues ($1-$10?) to pay for it.  I would also like to upload some of my father’s material for all members to see rather than sitting in my basement.  I’d guess alot of members would contribute also.

I’d like to know what our new SHRA webmaster thinks of a searchable database of material from the archive as it becomes available where all
members could log in and view it.  

-Rob

 


locked Re: TIES

Preston Clark
 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Wick Moorman <cwmoorman@...>
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 7:14:47 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@southernrailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] TIES
 
I’m in. 
Wick


On Aug 22, 2021, at 7:07 PM, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA


locked Re: TIES

Eric Schrowang
 

That could be interesting. Look forward to seeing it.

Eric

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021, 9:22 PM Michael Cathey via groups.io <mike76cathey=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Carl,

I’m interested. Occasionally run across loose copies in antique malls. Some are dry, some are fascinating, all are interesting.

Enjoyed the CD of “Southern News Bulletin”, predecessor(?) of “Ties”.

Mike Cathey  Orange, Va.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Carl Ardrey
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 7:05 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: [SouthernRailway] TIES

 

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA

 


locked Re: TIES

Michael Cathey
 

Carl,

I’m interested. Occasionally run across loose copies in antique malls. Some are dry, some are fascinating, all are interesting.

Enjoyed the CD of “Southern News Bulletin”, predecessor(?) of “Ties”.

Mike Cathey  Orange, Va.

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Carl Ardrey
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 7:05 PM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: [SouthernRailway] TIES

 

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA

 


locked Re: TIES

A&Y Dave in MD
 

It’s an interesting idea.  Sorry for ignorant questions. There’s a lot that could affect my interest. I recognize you’re just floating a trial balloon and may not have settled on options. It can be a bit of a chicken and egg thing.

Are you aiming at the SRHA member researcher or people generally interested in the Southern?
How many issues in a calendar year? 
What medium, e.g., DVD, USB drive, secure download? (a lot of new laptops and tablets don’t have DVD drives)
What file format?
Would text be searchable? 
What time span of years would be produced?   Ideas on a rough price point per year?  
Would there be a discount price for ordering a decade or a complete set?

Thanks

Dave

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Aug 22, 2021, at 7:05 PM, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA


locked Re: TIES

William Harley
 

I have about 40+ years worth of paper collection of “TIES”.
Was hoping for a CD or whatever of a 2022 Calendar that could be printed out or our beloved Railway.
Cheers
Bill Harley

On Aug 22, 2021, at 7:05 PM, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA


locked Re: TIES

aramsay18
 

Hello Carl

Yes I would be interested in the Ties publications.

Andy Ramsay
Berryville VA

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 7:07 PM Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:
SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA


locked Re: TIES

Wick Moorman
 

I’m in. 
Wick


On Aug 22, 2021, at 7:07 PM, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA


locked Re: Southern Railway History

Wick Moorman
 

Carl
Can you set one aside for me?
Thanks
Wick


On Aug 22, 2021, at 6:32 PM, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:


We do have a few copies left.
CEA
On 08/22/2021 4:38 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
 
 
In 2005, Norfolk Southern donated a number of printed, but unbound, copies of “The Legal History of the Southern Railway”  to SRHA. Written in 1901, by future SR President Fairfax Harrison, with supplements in 1921 and 1958, they represent the most complete and accurate description of the creation and development of the Southern Railway System.
 
They were printed, packaged and kept in the NS Archives until they were donated to SRHA. In 2005, SRHA President Dan Sparks had them trimmed and bound and we sold them through our Company Store, “The Grab". While the bindings were new, the SRHA versions are not reprints. Unfortunately, the limited supply has been sold out for quite some time.
 
For anyone fortunate to have copies of the two Volume set, here is the response sent to almost anyone asking Southern for a copy from 1901 to 2006. From the SRHA - Southern Railway Presidents’ Files collection Box 192A File 21:
 
Ike
 
<1917-1-22 Response to request for SR History.jpeg>


locked TIES

Carl Ardrey
 

SRHA has a complete set of the Southern Rwy publication Ties.  What would be the interest in offering for sale a CD with a calendar year's worth of issues?
CEA


locked Re: Southern Railway History

Carl Ardrey
 

We do have a few copies left.
CEA

On 08/22/2021 4:38 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
 
 
In 2005, Norfolk Southern donated a number of printed, but unbound, copies of “The Legal History of the Southern Railway”  to SRHA. Written in 1901, by future SR President Fairfax Harrison, with supplements in 1921 and 1958, they represent the most complete and accurate description of the creation and development of the Southern Railway System.
 
They were printed, packaged and kept in the NS Archives until they were donated to SRHA. In 2005, SRHA President Dan Sparks had them trimmed and bound and we sold them through our Company Store, “The Grab". While the bindings were new, the SRHA versions are not reprints. Unfortunately, the limited supply has been sold out for quite some time.
 
For anyone fortunate to have copies of the two Volume set, here is the response sent to almost anyone asking Southern for a copy from 1901 to 2006. From the SRHA - Southern Railway Presidents’ Files collection Box 192A File 21:
 
Ike
 


locked Southern Railway History

George Eichelberger
 

In 2005, Norfolk Southern donated a number of printed, but unbound, copies of “The Legal History of the Southern Railway”  to SRHA. Written in 1901, by future SR President Fairfax Harrison, with supplements in 1921 and 1958, they represent the most complete and accurate description of the creation and development of the Southern Railway System.

They were printed, packaged and kept in the NS Archives until they were donated to SRHA. In 2005, SRHA President Dan Sparks had them trimmed and bound and we sold them through our Company Store, “The Grab". While the bindings were new, the SRHA versions are not reprints. Unfortunately, the limited supply has been sold out for quite some time.

For anyone fortunate to have copies of the two Volume set, here is the response sent to almost anyone asking Southern for a copy from 1901 to 2006. From the SRHA - Southern Railway Presidents’ Files collection Box 192A File 21:

Ike

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