Date   

locked Re: Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

George Eichelberger
 

Mike:

I’m not disagreeing with you but unless “working remotely” includes something more than Google searches, how does it add to our knowledge?

Ike

On Jun 24, 2022, at 11:33 AM, Michael Roderick <mdrghost@...> wrote:

Ike:

True, But you have helped me with a bunch of stuff in the past and steered me in the right direction while going on this hunt for information, but it brings me back to the real question that while we a spread out wee need to be able to work together as a group on this type of project weather we are in Chattanooga or Indiana we all have some skin in the game because we all love this railroad and want to preserve it's history for other's read and understand the good, bad, and ugly of what it was all about and yes their was some things that was done that the railroad was not proud of doing back then but that was what was called business of railroading.

Mike Roderick
Modeling the Murphy Branch
Of the Southern Railroad

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 10:23
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

OK…. “can’t get to Chattanooga”……from Indiana!

The Internet is great but I have had people that live in Middle GA and TN tell me “they can’t get to Chattanooga, would I just send them everything in the archives on their question”?

I recognize that a favorite railroad location, museum or archives may be farther away than someone’s PC and keyboard but how is it some folks have made the effort to go places, do research, take photos and make databases (?). Or,…. support that work with more than a Google search?

Ike



On Jun 24, 2022, at 9:47 AM, Michael Roderick <mdrghost@...> wrote:

John:

I agree with you with about the digital sharing of information that is the one problem I have about being up here in Indiana and trying to do research on the Murphy Branch and can't get to Chattanooga to look in the archive's at all I have to rely on other member to get the information or go through tons of database's online to find just that one needle in the haystack to start linking the pieces together.

Mike Roderick
Modeling the Murphy Branch
Of the Southern Railroad

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Stewart
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 09:37
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

Good morning,

I would suggest that the idea of a new book is only one of several options to appeal to enthusiasts of all ages.

Looking forward, why not consider an electronic reference on line? Consider, for example, that this very conversation is taking place online, rather than in print.

There are many examples of online references, both free and subscription or annual fee basis.

One example that comes to mind is steamlocomotives.com - a free reference. One good thing is that it may be updated if users send worthwhile material to the owner for consideration

I bought my copy of Prince’s “Southern” nearly 30 years ago and am proud to have it. But it is a static reference in a digital world.

I enjoy doing historical research on rail and industrial topics. If I had to rely on printed material I would be severely limited as to what I’ve found, learned, and in a small way, shared with others.

There are many things in life that must be “real and in person” - there’s no such thing as good digital Bar-B-Q and a cold drink”

But information and sharing knowledge— the process of learning new things— may, it seems to me, best be shared in real time. A very efficient way to do this is the internet.

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL
www.bhamrails.info


locked Re: SR Flat Car at TVRM

George Eichelberger
 

Dave:

Note the retaining valve between the two rightmost stake pockets. That may tell us which series it is.

Are you going to make it to the next archives work session?

Ike


On Jun 24, 2022, at 11:30 AM, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:

Tim, thanks for chiming in.

Ike, thanks for the very helpful pic and technical data.

My interest in the car, as you might already have guessed, is to draw it up in 3D CAD and then make a laser-cut styrene model in 1:20.3 scale. Of course my CAD work could be the basis for a model in any scale since I always drawing things in 1:1 and then scale the relevant parts down.

Yours,

Dave

On 6/24/2022 11:25 AM, George Eichelberger wrote:
PS Here’s a photo of Southern (gondola) 117644, caption was on previous email…

Note the flat car was a WrightTrak kit…. Same flat as under the transfer cab kit. A series of them would make a great Southern welded rail train.

Ike


<Sou%20117644.jpeg>

Begin forwarded message:

From: GEORGE EICHELBERGER <geichelberger@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] SR Flat Car at TVRM
Date: June 24, 2022 at 11:19:58 AM EDT

Dave:

Without a good broadside photo, I cannot compare it to the General Arrangement drawings SF-1023 (Sou 115000-115249 and 118000-118749), SF-11118 (Sou 116600-116849 & 118000-118749). Those drawings are so accurate, if there is even a small difference in rivet patterns we can tell which series it is from. (Note these drawings are for both flats or gons. Gondolas of the 1920s were sometimes simply wooden sides on flat cars. Over time, sides were removed from the gons so most finished out their service as flat cars.)

Unless TVRM can find a road number someplace on the car, it would be impossible to determine exactly what the car’s revenue or MoW road number was. Unless we know where the prior owner got the car, it is possible it came from one of the industries around Birmingham, ex Southern or something else with replacement Southern trucks. With so many SR cars scrapped in B’ham, trucks would have been easy to find.

Ike



Sou 117644 is still configured as a low-side gondola on the ACL at Bradenton, FL in 1953. It was one of five hundred built at Lenoir in 1928 under Southern Specification F-97.
N.C.Miller Jr. Photo Neg A486 Bradenton, FL 2-53
Collection of GP Eichelberger


On Jun 24, 2022, at 10:49 AM, TIM ANDREWS <andrewstim@...> wrote:

Unfortunately when we got the car out of the parting lot in Irondale all previous paint markings were gone.  We will look more closely to see if the number is punched into the metal somewhere but I'm not optimistic.

Tim

On Friday, June 24, 2022, 10:31:10 AM EDT, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>

Thanks!

Dave Queener

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>


-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com  (865) 209-5654

Virus-free. www.avg.com


locked Re: SR Flat Car at TVRM

Jim King
 

The HO flat car, composite gon, and transfer cab were originally my kits.  They were sold to Wright Trak Models with the rest of my HO line many years ago.  Patterns for these 3 kits plus many others are now owned by Southbound Models (Greg King) in the Winston-Salem, NC area but I don’t know if Greg plans to reissue these.  I produced the flat and gon in S and O.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


locked Southern Railway Longbell 3 chimes

Will Kesler
 

I know I’ve been creating so many threads but I’ve just got a bunch of question that I hope y’all don’t mind if I ask. Does anyone here have any information on Southerns Longbell 3 chimes? How many still exist? What numbers of engines did they come from? Does anyone have any diagrams of one because I might be interested in trying to build a custom one? Any other information anyone would like to share would be nice too. I hope y’all don’t mind the many questions I have.


locked Re: SR Flat Car at TVRM

Jason P
 

The paint scheme, deck and railing indicate it had previously been a stationary platform. I'm not sure exactly if this is the same car but it looks like the one that had been part of a viewing platform in Irondale AL. It was positioned on the south side of the tracks across from the main viewing platform. It was later moved to a shopping center called Grants Mill Station along with an ex-PRR E8, Southern coach 1076, Southern MoW baggage 90020, as well as a couple other items. The shopping center recently disposed of the railroad equipment and maybe TVRM picked up the flatcar. slapping on a period paint scheme and lettering would make the car useful for freight trains in flim shoots. Maybe that is their plan for it?

-Jason Parham

On 06/24/2022 9:31 AM Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

Thanks!

Dave Queener


locked Re: Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

Michael Roderick
 

Ike:

True, But you have helped me with a bunch of stuff in the past and steered me in the right direction while going on this hunt for information, but it brings me back to the real question that while we a spread out wee need to be able to work together as a group on this type of project weather we are in Chattanooga or Indiana we all have some skin in the game because we all love this railroad and want to preserve it's history for other's read and understand the good, bad, and ugly of what it was all about and yes their was some things that was done that the railroad was not proud of doing back then but that was what was called business of railroading.

Mike Roderick
Modeling the Murphy Branch
Of the Southern Railroad

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of George Eichelberger
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 10:23
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

OK…. “can’t get to Chattanooga”……from Indiana!

The Internet is great but I have had people that live in Middle GA and TN tell me “they can’t get to Chattanooga, would I just send them everything in the archives on their question”?

I recognize that a favorite railroad location, museum or archives may be farther away than someone’s PC and keyboard but how is it some folks have made the effort to go places, do research, take photos and make databases (?). Or,…. support that work with more than a Google search?

Ike



On Jun 24, 2022, at 9:47 AM, Michael Roderick <mdrghost@...> wrote:

John:

I agree with you with about the digital sharing of information that is the one problem I have about being up here in Indiana and trying to do research on the Murphy Branch and can't get to Chattanooga to look in the archive's at all I have to rely on other member to get the information or go through tons of database's online to find just that one needle in the haystack to start linking the pieces together.

Mike Roderick
Modeling the Murphy Branch
Of the Southern Railroad

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Stewart
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 09:37
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

Good morning,

I would suggest that the idea of a new book is only one of several options to appeal to enthusiasts of all ages.

Looking forward, why not consider an electronic reference on line? Consider, for example, that this very conversation is taking place online, rather than in print.

There are many examples of online references, both free and subscription or annual fee basis.

One example that comes to mind is steamlocomotives.com - a free reference. One good thing is that it may be updated if users send worthwhile material to the owner for consideration

I bought my copy of Prince’s “Southern” nearly 30 years ago and am proud to have it. But it is a static reference in a digital world.

I enjoy doing historical research on rail and industrial topics. If I had to rely on printed material I would be severely limited as to what I’ve found, learned, and in a small way, shared with others.

There are many things in life that must be “real and in person” - there’s no such thing as good digital Bar-B-Q and a cold drink”

But information and sharing knowledge— the process of learning new things— may, it seems to me, best be shared in real time. A very efficient way to do this is the internet.

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL
www.bhamrails.info


locked How does the archives building work?

Will Kesler
 

Since I’m a new member and have never been to the archives building in Tennessee I have a few questions maybe someone could answer. Is it like where you can show you’re a member and just come in and look through stuff? Or are the documents and photos and stuff only available on “work sessions”? What are the work sessions exactly? And is there any way you can just come in and look at photos?


locked Re: SR Flat Car at TVRM

Dave Queener
 

Tim, thanks for chiming in.

Ike, thanks for the very helpful pic and technical data.

My interest in the car, as you might already have guessed, is to draw it up in 3D CAD and then make a laser-cut styrene model in 1:20.3 scale. Of course my CAD work could be the basis for a model in any scale since I always drawing things in 1:1 and then scale the relevant parts down.

Yours,

Dave

On 6/24/2022 11:25 AM, George Eichelberger wrote:
PS Here’s a photo of Southern (gondola) 117644, caption was on previous email…

Note the flat car was a WrightTrak kit…. Same flat as under the transfer cab kit. A series of them would make a great Southern welded rail train.

Ike




Begin forwarded message:

From: GEORGE EICHELBERGER <geichelberger@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] SR Flat Car at TVRM
Date: June 24, 2022 at 11:19:58 AM EDT

Dave:

Without a good broadside photo, I cannot compare it to the General Arrangement drawings SF-1023 (Sou 115000-115249 and 118000-118749), SF-11118 (Sou 116600-116849 & 118000-118749). Those drawings are so accurate, if there is even a small difference in rivet patterns we can tell which series it is from. (Note these drawings are for both flats or gons. Gondolas of the 1920s were sometimes simply wooden sides on flat cars. Over time, sides were removed from the gons so most finished out their service as flat cars.)

Unless TVRM can find a road number someplace on the car, it would be impossible to determine exactly what the car’s revenue or MoW road number was. Unless we know where the prior owner got the car, it is possible it came from one of the industries around Birmingham, ex Southern or something else with replacement Southern trucks. With so many SR cars scrapped in B’ham, trucks would have been easy to find.

Ike



Sou 117644 is still configured as a low-side gondola on the ACL at Bradenton, FL in 1953. It was one of five hundred built at Lenoir in 1928 under Southern Specification F-97.
N.C.Miller Jr. Photo Neg A486 Bradenton, FL 2-53
Collection of GP Eichelberger


On Jun 24, 2022, at 10:49 AM, TIM ANDREWS <andrewstim@...> wrote:

Unfortunately when we got the car out of the parting lot in Irondale all previous paint markings were gone.  We will look more closely to see if the number is punched into the metal somewhere but I'm not optimistic.

Tim

On Friday, June 24, 2022, 10:31:10 AM EDT, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>

Thanks!

Dave Queener

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>


-- 
Owner, Cumberland Model Engineering
www.CumberlandModelEngineering.com  (865) 209-5654

Virus-free. www.avg.com


locked SR Flat Car at TVRM

George Eichelberger
 

PS Here’s a photo of Southern (gondola) 117644, caption was on previous email…

Note the flat car was a WrightTrak kit…. Same flat as under the transfer cab kit. A series of them would make a great Southern welded rail train.

Ike




Begin forwarded message:

From: GEORGE EICHELBERGER <geichelberger@...>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] SR Flat Car at TVRM
Date: June 24, 2022 at 11:19:58 AM EDT

Dave:

Without a good broadside photo, I cannot compare it to the General Arrangement drawings SF-1023 (Sou 115000-115249 and 118000-118749), SF-11118 (Sou 116600-116849 & 118000-118749). Those drawings are so accurate, if there is even a small difference in rivet patterns we can tell which series it is from. (Note these drawings are for both flats or gons. Gondolas of the 1920s were sometimes simply wooden sides on flat cars. Over time, sides were removed from the gons so most finished out their service as flat cars.)

Unless TVRM can find a road number someplace on the car, it would be impossible to determine exactly what the car’s revenue or MoW road number was. Unless we know where the prior owner got the car, it is possible it came from one of the industries around Birmingham, ex Southern or something else with replacement Southern trucks. With so many SR cars scrapped in B’ham, trucks would have been easy to find.

Ike



Sou 117644 is still configured as a low-side gondola on the ACL at Bradenton, FL in 1953. It was one of five hundred built at Lenoir in 1928 under Southern Specification F-97.
N.C.Miller Jr. Photo Neg A486 Bradenton, FL 2-53
Collection of GP Eichelberger


On Jun 24, 2022, at 10:49 AM, TIM ANDREWS <andrewstim@...> wrote:

Unfortunately when we got the car out of the parting lot in Irondale all previous paint markings were gone.  We will look more closely to see if the number is punched into the metal somewhere but I'm not optimistic.

Tim

On Friday, June 24, 2022, 10:31:10 AM EDT, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>

Thanks!

Dave Queener

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>



locked Re: SR Flat Car at TVRM

George Eichelberger
 

Dave:

Without a good broadside photo, I cannot compare it to the General Arrangement drawings SF-1023 (Sou 115000-115249 and 118000-118749), SF-11118 (Sou 116600-116849 & 118000-118749). Those drawings are so accurate, if there is even a small difference in rivet patterns we can tell which series it is from. (Note these drawings are for both flats or gons. Gondolas of the 1920s were sometimes simply wooden sides on flat cars. Over time, sides were removed from the gons so most finished out their service as flat cars.)

Unless TVRM can find a road number someplace on the car, it would be impossible to determine exactly what the car’s revenue or MoW road number was. Unless we know where the prior owner got the car, it is possible it came from one of the industries around Birmingham, ex Southern or something else with replacement Southern trucks. With so many SR cars scrapped in B’ham, trucks would have been easy to find.

Ike



Sou 117644 is still configured as a low-side gondola on the ACL at Bradenton, FL in 1953. It was one of five hundred built at Lenoir in 1928 under Southern Specification F-97.
N.C.Miller Jr. Photo Neg A486 Bradenton, FL 2-53
Collection of GP Eichelberger


On Jun 24, 2022, at 10:49 AM, TIM ANDREWS <andrewstim@...> wrote:

Unfortunately when we got the car out of the parting lot in Irondale all previous paint markings were gone.  We will look more closely to see if the number is punched into the metal somewhere but I'm not optimistic.

Tim

On Friday, June 24, 2022, 10:31:10 AM EDT, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>

Thanks!

Dave Queener

<June 2022 083 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 094 - Crop.jpg><June 2022 095 - Crop.jpg>


locked Re: SR Flat Car at TVRM

TIM ANDREWS
 

Unfortunately when we got the car out of the parting lot in Irondale all previous paint markings were gone.  We will look more closely to see if the number is punched into the metal somewhere but I'm not optimistic.

Tim

On Friday, June 24, 2022, 10:31:10 AM EDT, Dave Queener <dave@...> wrote:


Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

Thanks!

Dave Queener


locked SR Flat Car at TVRM

Dave Queener
 

Gentlemen,

There is an approximately 40' or 42' steel flat car at TVRM with fishbelly center and side sills riding on Vulcan trucks that are clearly marked as having been cast for or by the Southern. Assuming then that it is a Southern flat car, does anyone know what number series, class, or build date it might be a part of? Here's a few pics taken yesterday:

Thanks!

Dave Queener


locked Re: Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

George Eichelberger
 

OK…. “can’t get to Chattanooga”……from Indiana!

The Internet is great but I have had people that live in Middle GA and TN tell me “they can’t get to Chattanooga, would I just send them everything in the archives on their question”?

I recognize that a favorite railroad location, museum or archives may be farther away than someone’s PC and keyboard but how is it some folks have made the effort to go places, do research, take photos and make databases (?). Or,…. support that work with more than a Google search?

Ike

On Jun 24, 2022, at 9:47 AM, Michael Roderick <mdrghost@...> wrote:

John:

I agree with you with about the digital sharing of information that is the one problem I have about being up here in Indiana and trying to do research on the Murphy Branch and can't get to Chattanooga to look in the archive's at all I have to rely on other member to get the information or go through tons of database's online to find just that one needle in the haystack to start linking the pieces together.

Mike Roderick
Modeling the Murphy Branch
Of the Southern Railroad

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Stewart
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 09:37
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

Good morning,

I would suggest that the idea of a new book is only one of several options to appeal to enthusiasts of all ages.

Looking forward, why not consider an electronic reference on line? Consider, for example, that this very conversation is taking place online, rather than in print.

There are many examples of online references, both free and subscription or annual fee basis.

One example that comes to mind is steamlocomotives.com - a free reference. One good thing is that it may be updated if users send worthwhile material to the owner for consideration

I bought my copy of Prince’s “Southern” nearly 30 years ago and am proud to have it. But it is a static reference in a digital world.

I enjoy doing historical research on rail and industrial topics. If I had to rely on printed material I would be severely limited as to what I’ve found, learned, and in a small way, shared with others.

There are many things in life that must be “real and in person” - there’s no such thing as good digital Bar-B-Q and a cold drink”

But information and sharing knowledge— the process of learning new things— may, it seems to me, best be shared in real time. A very efficient way to do this is the internet.

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL
www.bhamrails.info


locked Southern Railway Steam Videos

Will Kesler
 

I have a question, is film of southern steam rare? I believe it is because there’s even less of it than color photographs, and there’s barely any of those either. I have with me a collection of videos I screen recorded off of YouTube and other sources to show to you guys but I would like to know if there is any more videos of southern steam in the archives?


locked Re: Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

Michael Roderick
 

John:

I agree with you with about the digital sharing of information that is the one problem I have about being up here in Indiana and trying to do research on the Murphy Branch and can't get to Chattanooga to look in the archive's at all I have to rely on other member to get the information or go through tons of database's online to find just that one needle in the haystack to start linking the pieces together.

Mike Roderick
Modeling the Murphy Branch
Of the Southern Railroad

-----Original Message-----
From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of John Stewart
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2022 09:37
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

Good morning,

I would suggest that the idea of a new book is only one of several options to appeal to enthusiasts of all ages.

Looking forward, why not consider an electronic reference on line? Consider, for example, that this very conversation is taking place online, rather than in print.

There are many examples of online references, both free and subscription or annual fee basis.

One example that comes to mind is steamlocomotives.com - a free reference. One good thing is that it may be updated if users send worthwhile material to the owner for consideration

I bought my copy of Prince’s “Southern” nearly 30 years ago and am proud to have it. But it is a static reference in a digital world.

I enjoy doing historical research on rail and industrial topics. If I had to rely on printed material I would be severely limited as to what I’ve found, learned, and in a small way, shared with others.

There are many things in life that must be “real and in person” - there’s no such thing as good digital Bar-B-Q and a cold drink”

But information and sharing knowledge— the process of learning new things— may, it seems to me, best be shared in real time. A very efficient way to do this is the internet.

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL
www.bhamrails.info


locked Re: Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

Will Kesler
 

Maybe if a photograph book would be done they could be black and white photos that are nice in detail and have good descriptions. And there could be a section in the book dedicated just for color, seeing a good detailed image is nice enough so that would still do good anyways.


locked Re: Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

John Stewart
 

Good morning,

I would suggest that the idea of a new book is only one of several options to appeal to enthusiasts of all ages.

Looking forward, why not consider an electronic reference on line? Consider, for example, that this very conversation is taking place online, rather than in print.

There are many examples of online references, both free and subscription or annual fee basis.

One example that comes to mind is steamlocomotives.com - a free reference. One good thing is that it may be updated if users send worthwhile material to the owner for consideration

I bought my copy of Prince’s “Southern” nearly 30 years ago and am proud to have it. But it is a static reference in a digital world.

I enjoy doing historical research on rail and industrial topics. If I had to rely on printed material I would be severely limited as to what I’ve found, learned, and in a small way, shared with others.

There are many things in life that must be “real and in person” - there’s no such thing as good digital Bar-B-Q and a cold drink”

But information and sharing knowledge— the process of learning new things— may, it seems to me, best be shared in real time. A very efficient way to do this is the internet.

John Stewart
Birmingham, AL
www.bhamrails.info


locked Re: Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

Michael Roderick
 

Gentlemen:

 

While I am in my 50’s and model the Murphy Branch like Gordon does. I love steam and diesel, but I prefer steam over the diesel because of what representative in the 30’s. Yes I have a good collection of trains an in the 80’s but trying to find the right stuff for the 30’s of the Southern and the Books that talk about the Southern is just as important it’s history. We need to tell it correctly and this has been one of the hardest parts that I have been trying to do living hear in Indiana about my beloved Murphy Branch which I grew up with in my high school years in Bryson City, NC from 83-87. I have lived in and around the Southern from Raleigh, NC to Greenville, SC so I know the major lines and yes I have been to Spencer when I was 10 years old. Having a new book redone of Prince would be great a new generation of Southern Railroad Fans.

 

Mike Roderick

Modeling the Murphy Branch

Of the Southern Railroad

 

From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> On Behalf Of Will Kesler
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 22:23
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

 

Take it from me, I’m 14 and am as passionate as can be for Southern Steam, that’s basically the only steam I really get excited for, all I really want to look at if I were to find a photo of an engine would be a color photograph of maybe a Ts-1 or a Ps-4. I think if the book was flashy and colorful it would draw some attention to younger viewers. Imagine a nice green and yellow book with Southern colors all over it, I think that’d sell well.


locked Prince book reprints - takers??, oh, the Rabbit holes possible here

Cohen Bob
 

All:

Oh, the directions this bigger topic can take so I'll start with the easiest to identify:

What Bill S. stated regarding finding his missing volume of Prince books for $15, THAT was smart and not as lucky as some might want to believe. While much older material, i.e. steam is going begging in many circles since those who best remember are entering their twilight years (yours truly included), today's BUYERS aren't quite as eager as those of 40-60 years ago to part with their dollars for material that is now part of so many downsizer's today.

Look at what has been successful and why: big and easy example - the Morning Sun formula; 128 pages, all color (okay we've got a SR problem here as Bill as gently reminded us of), and ONE v ery specific topic; trackside, a specific photographer, obviously a specific RR, structures ......... okay we know the rest. That said, it works. They have built a better mousetrap and to succeed for something new, we, too shall have to create a better mousetrap also. Oh we, each (well some of us anyway, present company included) have our favorite specific RR if not branch of that RR or specific region. Look at the PRR historical datum: Volume 1 of Churella on the PRR was huge and the nearing completion of Vols. 2 & 3 will also likely be.

Okay, the SR did not have and doesn't have anywhere near the same reach as the PRR, but what works for the goose and also work for the gander. We have the minds to come up with a formula, a mix, that can work, but as stated at the outset, a straight reprint of SR's Prince just doesn't fit the formula. So-o-o-o-o-o-o, maybe something along the lines of not a 250-pager (Prince) but a 750 pager that expands and includes  material he missed and that has come to light since the 1960s and 1970s.

I've tried to psychoanalyze the marketplace as much as I can, and have given at least part of the prescription for proper medication. Now it's up to other specialists to figure the entire formula. This isn't E=MC squared, or the quadratic equation nor the vaccines for COVID-19, but all considerations have to be taken here notwithstanding the aging interest base and changing demographics of the potential interested parties. Hey, SR has been gone now for ......... 40 years, let's neither forget nor let the aging factor elude us before we, too becomes footnotes to history.

end of pulpit.

Bob Cohen


locked Re: Southern Railway Prince book reprints - takers??

George Eichelberger
 

There are 3,661 items in the SRHA digital archives “steam” photo directory, maybe 150 of those are documents or photographers’ notes on the back of photo prints. Of the 3,500 (MoL) photos, if we do not count the color photos from the Southern fan trip era. I would estimate the percentage of color images at between 1 and 2% with some number of those unacceptable for any kind of publication.

So…may I suggest we don’t presume to think an all-color book of Southern steam photos is possible? Between the color photos that do exist (ignore ones that have been manually colored) and various stencil and paint drawings, and the many superb B&W steam photos (“roster” and in train), the material exists for a new book. BUT….books do not write themselves. Saying “I want” is one thing but who will say “I will” is the question.

I suggest that we produce a special issue of TIES Magazine that incorporates all of the Ed King articles on Southern steam with added photos (and additional types of Southern steam locomotives?) and publish it as as “TRAINS” magazine (Kalmbach publishing) does quite often. It could be self published or done through Kalmbach, White River or whoever is interested.)

Ike

PS The Internet and Internet groups are great for passing ideas and information around but the cash, time and effort investment and “hands on” work needs to be done by someone. If we are talking about just cash, has everyone donated to their favorite railroad historical society, library or museum (railroad or otherwise)?



On Jun 23, 2022, at 11:12 PM, Bill Schafer <bill4501@...> wrote:

Everyone would love to see more Southern steam in color. Problem is, Southern dieselized in the early-1950s, and steam was gone before many people got a chance to photograph it. Not so with the N&W, which dieselized in 1960, when steam was rare and everyone was chasing the last strongholds. Another complication is that color film was very slow and very expensive in the 1940s and early 1950s, so what photos you see of late SOU steam are mostly black and white. A third factor is there weren’t many railfans in the South compared to other parts of the country, which explains why there are an inordinate number of images from Southern’s fringes (e.g., Washington, Cincinnati, St. Louis) but not as many from the heart of Southern country. 

I think there are several threads here of what would constitute a popular book of Southern Railway steam: 

* A broader treatment of Southern steam from 1830 to 1953, including background on development, philosophy, etc.
* A description of SOU steam in the context of passenger or freight service 
* An all-color picture book of regular service Southern Railway steam. 

IMHO, this last one would be the easiest to produce and perhaps the most popular, assuming 150-200 good color original images could be found. 

—Bill

On Jun 23, 2022, at 22:22, Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:

Take it from me, I’m 14 and am as passionate as can be for Southern Steam, that’s basically the only steam I really get excited for, all I really want to look at if I were to find a photo of an engine would be a color photograph of maybe a Ts-1 or a Ps-4. I think if the book was flashy and colorful it would draw some attention to younger viewers. Imagine a nice green and yellow book with Southern colors all over it, I think that’d sell well.