Date   

locked SRHA steam documentation

George Eichelberger
 

Example No 2, also from (full!) binder 109.

Ike


locked SRHA steam documentation

George Eichelberger
 

All:

Three examples of the Southern steam material in the SRHA archives….from Marvin Black binder #109.

Ike









locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] RE Prince book reprints

C J Wyatt
 

Ike, like Kyle, I have some projects I need to take care of before making a commitment.

The first task, I think, would be to assess the situation with the photographs. I don't see this as being a detail book like the Ties articles were. There will be room for that in later books. The information about locomotive classes could be enhanced a bit and perhaps be better organized. Some Prince books have information about the facilities devoted to steam, but that is pretty much absent from the current Southern book. It might be good for the new edition. I also would like to see the line history part enhanced some with more details about situations such as the formation and demise of the Queen & Crescent. Maybe we need to get the interested people together and decide what needs to be done and then divide up the tasks. 

Just a few quick thoughts.

Jack

On Monday, June 20, 2022, 06:13:15 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Any takers?

Ike


On Jun 18, 2022, at 7:57 PM, George Eichelberger <GEICHELBERGER@...> wrote:

Jack:

If someone (several people?) want to take on the project, I think it’d be an excellent idea! Some things to consider….

The book was written in pre-word processing days so there is not a soft copy version of the text. I have not looked through the Prince materials file cabinet in a long time but I recall there are quite a few of the text and diagram sections in their offset printing form. (Looks like black letters on a transparent background, almost like a negative that was “burned” on a photo sensitive printing plate using a very bright (carbon arc?) light. Those could be scanned and placed on a page as part of a PDF for printing. (Worked in a print shop some in the early 60s. Everything was done with offset printing or Linotype (hot metal). The pages of an existing book can be scanned, OCRd and set if desk top publishing software (I use Adobe Creative Suite @ $20/mo for a Macintosh.)

There may be photos of the diagram book pages but it would be easier to simply make new scans..I expect we have all of the diagram books he used..or close to it.

No one would make photos for publication by making plates by taking photos of photos through a fine screen as was done. I seem to remember the “resolution” of the screen used was about 150 lines per inch. (Photos for a newspaper were done at lower screen rates but I don’t remember the number…75?. The good news is that my estimate of 80-90% of the photos used are in Chattanooga. (Prince, like many authors of the period, simply borrowed photo prints, made the screen prints and returned the photos to their owners.) There are photis in the Prince files that were not returned, probably made from extra prints. We also have many of the same photos in the KImsey, Ben Roberts, Dale Roberts, and other collections.

Probably doable but needing people to do the work. SRHA has all of the technology needed plus a 142TB of network accessible memory that can be accessed by many people in a collaborative effort. (Not everyone would ever have to do to the archives and could work remotely.) Initial printing costs would have to come form donations, SRHA does not have a large “publications” budget but it could (?) be done.

Ike


On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:56 PM, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

Since the SRHA has the intellectual property rights, what about a revised Prince edition? I fear by the time a brand new Southern steam book is written, most potential readers will be gone. 

Jack Wyatt

On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 05:08:59 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Let me add one more "thing".....

I expect SRHA now has the largest collection of Southern steam loco negatives and prints anywhere...ever. (Including maybe 80-90% of the photos used in both the Prince book and Southern Steam Power). Plus, we have accumulated many steam ("SL" prefix and earlier) drawings to add the the significant collection TVRM has.

If someone was serious (!!) about writing a book on Southern Steam, using mostly original negatives, come to one of the Archives work sessions and see what we have. (If not a work session, come to the joint SRHA/L&NHS/RPM at TVRM 9-30/10-1).

Ike



locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] RE Prince book reprints

Kyle Shannon
 

I’d personally love to in the future, Ike, just have to finish up a project or two first.

Kyle




On Monday, June 20, 2022, 6:13 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

Any takers?

Ike


On Jun 18, 2022, at 7:57 PM, George Eichelberger <GEICHELBERGER@...> wrote:

Jack:

If someone (several people?) want to take on the project, I think it’d be an excellent idea! Some things to consider….

The book was written in pre-word processing days so there is not a soft copy version of the text. I have not looked through the Prince materials file cabinet in a long time but I recall there are quite a few of the text and diagram sections in their offset printing form. (Looks like black letters on a transparent background, almost like a negative that was “burned” on a photo sensitive printing plate using a very bright (carbon arc?) light. Those could be scanned and placed on a page as part of a PDF for printing. (Worked in a print shop some in the early 60s. Everything was done with offset printing or Linotype (hot metal). The pages of an existing book can be scanned, OCRd and set if desk top publishing software (I use Adobe Creative Suite @ $20/mo for a Macintosh.)

There may be photos of the diagram book pages but it would be easier to simply make new scans..I expect we have all of the diagram books he used..or close to it.

No one would make photos for publication by making plates by taking photos of photos through a fine screen as was done. I seem to remember the “resolution” of the screen used was about 150 lines per inch. (Photos for a newspaper were done at lower screen rates but I don’t remember the number…75?. The good news is that my estimate of 80-90% of the photos used are in Chattanooga. (Prince, like many authors of the period, simply borrowed photo prints, made the screen prints and returned the photos to their owners.) There are photis in the Prince files that were not returned, probably made from extra prints. We also have many of the same photos in the KImsey, Ben Roberts, Dale Roberts, and other collections.

Probably doable but needing people to do the work. SRHA has all of the technology needed plus a 142TB of network accessible memory that can be accessed by many people in a collaborative effort. (Not everyone would ever have to do to the archives and could work remotely.) Initial printing costs would have to come form donations, SRHA does not have a large “publications” budget but it could (?) be done.

Ike


On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:56 PM, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

Since the SRHA has the intellectual property rights, what about a revised Prince edition? I fear by the time a brand new Southern steam book is written, most potential readers will be gone. 

Jack Wyatt

On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 05:08:59 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Let me add one more "thing".....

I expect SRHA now has the largest collection of Southern steam loco negatives and prints anywhere...ever. (Including maybe 80-90% of the photos used in both the Prince book and Southern Steam Power). Plus, we have accumulated many steam ("SL" prefix and earlier) drawings to add the the significant collection TVRM has.

If someone was serious (!!) about writing a book on Southern Steam, using mostly original negatives, come to one of the Archives work sessions and see what we have. (If not a work session, come to the joint SRHA/L&NHS/RPM at TVRM 9-30/10-1).

Ike



locked Re: [ModelingTheSouthern] RE Prince book reprints

George Eichelberger
 

Any takers?

Ike


On Jun 18, 2022, at 7:57 PM, George Eichelberger <GEICHELBERGER@...> wrote:

Jack:

If someone (several people?) want to take on the project, I think it’d be an excellent idea! Some things to consider….

The book was written in pre-word processing days so there is not a soft copy version of the text. I have not looked through the Prince materials file cabinet in a long time but I recall there are quite a few of the text and diagram sections in their offset printing form. (Looks like black letters on a transparent background, almost like a negative that was “burned” on a photo sensitive printing plate using a very bright (carbon arc?) light. Those could be scanned and placed on a page as part of a PDF for printing. (Worked in a print shop some in the early 60s. Everything was done with offset printing or Linotype (hot metal). The pages of an existing book can be scanned, OCRd and set if desk top publishing software (I use Adobe Creative Suite @ $20/mo for a Macintosh.)

There may be photos of the diagram book pages but it would be easier to simply make new scans..I expect we have all of the diagram books he used..or close to it.

No one would make photos for publication by making plates by taking photos of photos through a fine screen as was done. I seem to remember the “resolution” of the screen used was about 150 lines per inch. (Photos for a newspaper were done at lower screen rates but I don’t remember the number…75?. The good news is that my estimate of 80-90% of the photos used are in Chattanooga. (Prince, like many authors of the period, simply borrowed photo prints, made the screen prints and returned the photos to their owners.) There are photis in the Prince files that were not returned, probably made from extra prints. We also have many of the same photos in the KImsey, Ben Roberts, Dale Roberts, and other collections.

Probably doable but needing people to do the work. SRHA has all of the technology needed plus a 142TB of network accessible memory that can be accessed by many people in a collaborative effort. (Not everyone would ever have to do to the archives and could work remotely.) Initial printing costs would have to come form donations, SRHA does not have a large “publications” budget but it could (?) be done.

Ike


On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:56 PM, C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:

Since the SRHA has the intellectual property rights, what about a revised Prince edition? I fear by the time a brand new Southern steam book is written, most potential readers will be gone. 

Jack Wyatt

On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 05:08:59 PM EDT, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:


Let me add one more "thing".....

I expect SRHA now has the largest collection of Southern steam loco negatives and prints anywhere...ever. (Including maybe 80-90% of the photos used in both the Prince book and Southern Steam Power). Plus, we have accumulated many steam ("SL" prefix and earlier) drawings to add the the significant collection TVRM has.

If someone was serious (!!) about writing a book on Southern Steam, using mostly original negatives, come to one of the Archives work sessions and see what we have. (If not a work session, come to the joint SRHA/L&NHS/RPM at TVRM 9-30/10-1).

Ike



locked Southern Railway Spencer Ms-4’s

Will Kesler
 

I’m looking for pictures in either good detail or in color of Spencer Shops’s or just that specific looks Spencer had for its Ms-4’s. I am reskinning and kitbashing a locomotive in a game called Trainz from a Ps-4 to resemble an Ms-4. Since I think Spencer’s variation of the Ms-4’s looked the best any photos that could show me more detail rather than the pixilated ones I’ve seen would be nice. Here is a look at the Ms-4 in game.


locked Southern Railway Spencer Ms-4’s

Will Kesler
 

I’m looking for pictures in either good detail or in color of Spencer Shops’s or just that specific looks Spencer had for its Ms-4’s. I am reskinning and kitbashing a locomotive in a game called Trainz from a Ps-4 to resemble an Ms-4. Since I think Spencer’s variation of the Ms-4’s looked the best any photos that could show me more detail rather than the pixilated ones I’ve seen would be nice. Here is a look at the Ms-4 in game.


locked LNHS/SRHA/TVRM Convention and RPM

Carl Ardrey
 

Convention information including online registration and proposed schedule is available at www.srha.net.  
CEA


locked Re: Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Barry Kimble
 

Will,

You’re looking at two different series…
Southern Railway in color Vol 2
Southern Railway Power in color Vol 2

Thanks,
Barry


On Jun 15, 2022, at 10:28 PM, Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:

Something I have noticed is that there seems to be multiple Southern Railway In Color books by different people. One Volume 2 book is by one author, and another volume two is by a different author. The one with Ps-4 1380 seems to be more of one I’d want due to it having what appears to be pictures from different locations on the pages, as they include Spencer North Carolina.  4984DC18-90C5-4E9F-A729-F4954E1BEB16.jpeg3FC4358F-D709-4799-BC44-D2D388BB1BE8.jpeg


locked Re: Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Will Kesler
 

Something I have noticed is that there seems to be multiple Southern Railway In Color books by different people. One Volume 2 book is by one author, and another volume two is by a different author. The one with Ps-4 1380 seems to be more of one I’d want due to it having what appears to be pictures from different locations on the pages, as they include Spencer North Carolina. 


locked Re: Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Will Kesler
 

Barry, yes I actually have volume 1. I was considering getting volume 2 but I didn’t know if I should get that over Classic Steam Trains in the South by Curt Tillotson Jr. I think I will get the classic steam trains because it focuses on N&W SOU L&N and some more, it does look like it contains some color shots of engines as there are two color shots of Ms-4’s. Thanks for your help though.


locked Re: Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Barry Kimble
 

Will,
Welcome to the group…
Have you seen the Southern Railway “in color” series of books published by Morning Sun?
Vol 1 and 2 both had some color steam in them.
Hopes this helps, Barry 

On Jun 15, 2022, at 6:59 PM, Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:



[Edited Message Follows]

Frank, that’s alright. Do you happen to know of any other place where I could find Vintage Color Shots of southern railway steam?


locked Re: Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Will Kesler
 
Edited

Frank, that’s alright. Do you happen to know of any other place where I could find Vintage Color Shots of southern railway steam?


locked Re: Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Carl Ardrey
 

Will:
Welcome to SRHA.  We would love to have some of the archive materials available digitally, but that's down the road a bit for now. We are working to that end.
CEA

On 06/15/2022 1:33 PM Will Kesler <williamkesler354@...> wrote:


Another thing I would like too add, since I’m a new member and I clearly don’t know my way around here could anyone tell me what you mainly do here? Another question I have is that are the archives present on the SRSA site including photographs and stuff or is that all located at the SRSA headquarters in Chattanooga. Keep in mind I’m new so excuse me if I’m incorrect about some things. 


locked Re: Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Will Kesler
 

Another thing I would like too add, since I’m a new member and I clearly don’t know my way around here could anyone tell me what you mainly do here? Another question I have is that are the archives present on the SRSA site including photographs and stuff or is that all located at the SRSA headquarters in Chattanooga. Keep in mind I’m new so excuse me if I’m incorrect about some things. 


locked Southern Railway Steam black and white/color photographs

Will Kesler
 

Hi I’m new to the group and am still learning how this works but I thought I’d make a post on what I’m most interested in. Southern steam color photographs, I love seeing southern steam engines in color and I’ve already seen most that are on the internet and in books so maybe if anyone would be willing to post some here that would be very appreciated. Primary it’d be awesome to see some color shots of some Ts-1’s, Ps-4’s, or even Ms-4’s. Early Diesel action would be cool too.


locked Re: Dim memory

michael lowe
 

  I am not familiar with these operations, but I thought of possible research source, that might answer questions.  You might look at the ICC annual reports for these railroads , which had some contracts or leases listed in them.
   Michael Lowe 


locked Re: Dim memory

C J Wyatt
 

Since you had three pairs of through trains which ran over the N&W, N&W dining car crews were entitled to part of the business. In earlier times the dining car on the Birmingham Special all the way to Birmingham was N&W. I suspect in your time period the Washington-Knoxville dining-lounge was the equalizer for N&W.

Jack Wyatt

On Tuesday, June 14, 2022, 06:58:59 PM EDT, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3@...> wrote:


I hadn't thought about a TC office car.  That would make sense.  Perhaps it was only two diners being removed and serviced at Knoxville.  But my ancient memory says one, most likely the Tennessean was a N&W car.  Yet, why would a N&W diner be added in Washington instead of Lynchburg or Roanoke?  Perhaps I only recall some N&W cars that continued on to Chattanooga or Memphis on the Tennessean.  Anyone have knowledge of such cars?

George Courtney


locked Re: Dim memory

George Courtney
 

I hadn't thought about a TC office car.  That would make sense.  Perhaps it was only two diners being removed and serviced at Knoxville.  But my ancient memory says one, most likely the Tennessean was a N&W car.  Yet, why would a N&W diner be added in Washington instead of Lynchburg or Roanoke?  Perhaps I only recall some N&W cars that continued on to Chattanooga or Memphis on the Tennessean.  Anyone have knowledge of such cars?

George Courtney


locked Re: Dim memory

john w coniglio
 

I have seen 2 other possibilities, since TC pass. ended in about 1955. TC served Ft. Campbell and the cars you saw might have been troop movements.  I saw those trains a couple of times near my home on the belt line. The cars could have come from anywhere. Other idea is that until some time in the early 1960s, TC handled a few coaches carrying girls to Camp May? near Mayland. On the western end L&N brought the cars to Vine Hill near the state fairgrounds in Nashville. There TC picked them up and delivered them to Mayland. There could have been a similar move from Knoxville, I don't know. The info I do know is from watching trains and talking to TC crewmen.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 12:40 PM C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
Very curious. Around that time, The Tennessean did indeed have a DC - Knoxville diner-lounge, Interesting, the Carolina Special also had a Knoxville - Columbia diner-lounge. This idea seems crazy, but I wonder if the diner-lounge's were taken somewhere past Knoxville for servicing and returned on the next morning's CS.

I agree that Tennesse Central was out of the passenger business then, but I wonder if the possible TC sighting was an office car from that road making an off-line trip.

Jack Wyatt

On Monday, June 13, 2022, 10:26:22 PM EDT, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


Back in 1958 and 1959, at age 15 & 16, I worked at the Southern Railway Passenger station in Knoxville, Tn.  I only worked during the summers while school was out. I worked the evening shift from 3 pm to around 11 pm.  I sold Cokes and pre-made sandwiches and magazines at a stand in the station.  I have strong memories of Southern's Carolina Special pulling in, followed within 10 minutes if on time, the Tennessean.
Both trains were westbound.
My dim memory is of a Norfolk & Western passenger car being taken off the Tennessean and put on The Carolina Special.  I assumed the Carolina Special took the N&W car, it's maroon paint stands out, down to Harriman and interchanged it to the Tennessee Central to take to Nashville.
While I'm not sure about where the car was going, I'm sure about a N&W car being added to the Carolina Special.  Chats with Tennessee Central modelers say the TC wasn't offering passenger service at that time.  Once I think I read, the N&W car went on the end of a TC freight train for a few months.  Anyone have any knowledge of this?
I'm not saying my memory is correct.  But I've long had the memory of both trains being in the station longer than the Birmingham Special or Pelican were and of some switching action.  It's possible a diner was set off the Tennessean.  But my dim memory says the Carolina Special was scheduled to arrive first and departed second.  

George Courtney



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John W. Coniglio
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