Date   

locked Re: SOU 42' Gondola Questions

David Friedlander
 

All,

Thanks for the extra history.  I didn't realize coal has acid in it that would eat away at steel cars, but that makes a lot of sense.

Thanks for Bob's number. I haven't lived in Raleigh for close to a decade now, but would go every year to the Neuse River Show during my childhood.  The Sipping and Switching layout was always something I remembered enjoying watching.  Unfortunately I can't visit home that weekend since I have a vaccine appointment that I should not skip.

David Friedlander


On Sat, Apr 24, 2021 at 10:59 AM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Tim:

No, Sou 992987 (according to the SR MoW records) is one of the high side gons built by Mt. VernonCar Co. in 1943. I’m sure the info is someplace but I cannot locate the car’s revenue road number.

The all steel drop bottom “DB” and double drop bottom “DDB” “coal cars” of the earlier period did not hold up well because their steel could not handle the acid from coal. The Southern went through a series of all steel gons then shifted to composite cars before returning to all steel gons. Few cars from the teens and twenties (incl USRA types) were rebuilt because they were twenty-ish years old when the depression made most any kind of cars unnecessary.

Ike



On Apr 24, 2021, at 10:46 AM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:

Could this be a similar car?

<1619275245435blob.jpg>

Photo was made January 10, 2020 in Chattanooga







On Friday, April 23, 2021, 11:31:34 PM EDT, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:


Hi Bill,

Thank you for helping me with that information. Glad to see the other model is numbered correctly after all.  I'll have to think about what I want to do and either paint it similarly and weather it in rough shape, or possibly make some mods to it and/or just letter it in and Gothic and put it into MoW service with ties, tieplates, or rail.

Two questions if you don't mind me asking:
1. What source is Bob's Photo's? Is that someone on here, a photograph store, or similar?
2. By door locks, do you mean the ratcheting mechanisms on either side of the carbody?

Thanks,
David


On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 11:14 AM William Harley via groups.io <williamharley=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
David,
This is a model of a Southern Coal Gondola. 
The following information is from the Sunshine Models Prototype Data Sheet.
The Southern purchase 4447 of these from 1937-1941.
Cars from 1937 became CNO&TP 287000 - 287999 and AGS 315700 - 315949 (this is the series your car is numbered for).  Numbers from 175000 - 176344 from 1938, 176345 - 177376 from 1939 and 177377 - 178197 from 1941 were Southern cars.  The 1939 lot cars, the 176345 - 177376 series were built by Mt Vernon.  All other cars were built by ACF.
The cars were originally CAPY: 100,000.
I have a couple of photo’s from Bob’s Photos which show these cars in use without door locks in 1951 and 1957.
Hope this helps.
Bill Harley

On Apr 23, 2021, at 12:16 AM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I've had a model of a 42' Gondola made by PSC for quite some time.  I'm trying to understand what I actually have. There is no documentation in the box and nothing really at all about this model online.  Maybe the SRHA helped PSC when this model was originally imported? It strikes me as an odd model to import, but it seems rare, so maybe it was a good choice. 

I was originally looking to paint and letter it for GB 180441 as shown on the 6th page from the last page in the SOU freight car color guide despite some of the cosmetic differences.

The box-end says "Southern Railway 42' Gondola (6-door), Enterprise Rwy. Equipment Co.  A photo of the box end:
<scale-brass-psc-southern-railway-42.jpg>

My car is unpainted, but I found one that someone did up as car 315784 on brasstrains:
https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/119483/O-Brass-Model-PSC-SOU-Southern-42-Gondola-315784-Custom-Lhee-Do-Wrong-Box

While done well, I know good and well not to trust someone else's paint job. I took a look at my OCT 1968 ORER for both the 180200-180999 series and the 315700-315949 series and here is what I see below:

<G102_G112_1968 ORER.jpg>

Interestingly, I measured the outside length (over the "strikers") to be 10.5" which translates to 42'. Even with couplers it still would be a foot short of the 45'11" listed for either series.  I am pretty sure the 180441 was wrong, but it looks like 315784 may be a foobie as well. (The dimensions are interestingly identical...more on that next.)

I then took a look at my Freight equipment diagram book (vol1) and after looking through the gondolas (all from a 1971 diagram book), found a few drawings that describe the above series, but not necessarily the car I have.  These are on pages G2154 and G2155. There in the special notes, it actually says that 315700-315949 were rebuilt into the 180200-180999 series in 1968.  The diagrams also note that the drop-bottom doors in the sill were made by Enterprise, which is the same name shown on the box ends, even though the car builder was very likely someone like Mt. Vernon.

So my questions are:
1. What do I have a model of? ie - What series is from?
2. Do we know if any made it to late the 60's? (and without retrofit)
3. If its unlikely such a car made it to the late 60's then I like my idea of sticking with my foobie repaint of it into 180441.  With that said, even with the ORER and the Diagram Book, I still need to figure out the LD LMT and the BLT Date. Any thoughts on those? The CAPY is 110000 and the LTWT is 45100. The "new" date would be in 1968, but I'm going to go with what I see on page G2155 and say this was built sometime back in 1940.

Thanks,
David Friedlander <G102_G112_1968 ORER.jpg>



<1619275245435blob.jpg>


locked Re: SOU 42' Gondola Questions

George Eichelberger
 

Tim:

No, Sou 992987 (according to the SR MoW records) is one of the high side gons built by Mt. VernonCar Co. in 1943. I’m sure the info is someplace but I cannot locate the car’s revenue road number.

The all steel drop bottom “DB” and double drop bottom “DDB” “coal cars” of the earlier period did not hold up well because their steel could not handle the acid from coal. The Southern went through a series of all steel gons then shifted to composite cars before returning to all steel gons. Few cars from the teens and twenties (incl USRA types) were rebuilt because they were twenty-ish years old when the depression made most any kind of cars unnecessary.

Ike



On Apr 24, 2021, at 10:46 AM, TIM ANDREWS <ANDREWSTIM@...> wrote:

Could this be a similar car?

<1619275245435blob.jpg>

Photo was made January 10, 2020 in Chattanooga







On Friday, April 23, 2021, 11:31:34 PM EDT, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:


Hi Bill,

Thank you for helping me with that information. Glad to see the other model is numbered correctly after all.  I'll have to think about what I want to do and either paint it similarly and weather it in rough shape, or possibly make some mods to it and/or just letter it in and Gothic and put it into MoW service with ties, tieplates, or rail.

Two questions if you don't mind me asking:
1. What source is Bob's Photo's? Is that someone on here, a photograph store, or similar?
2. By door locks, do you mean the ratcheting mechanisms on either side of the carbody?

Thanks,
David


On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 11:14 AM William Harley via groups.io <williamharley=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
David,
This is a model of a Southern Coal Gondola. 
The following information is from the Sunshine Models Prototype Data Sheet.
The Southern purchase 4447 of these from 1937-1941.
Cars from 1937 became CNO&TP 287000 - 287999 and AGS 315700 - 315949 (this is the series your car is numbered for).  Numbers from 175000 - 176344 from 1938, 176345 - 177376 from 1939 and 177377 - 178197 from 1941 were Southern cars.  The 1939 lot cars, the 176345 - 177376 series were built by Mt Vernon.  All other cars were built by ACF.
The cars were originally CAPY: 100,000.
I have a couple of photo’s from Bob’s Photos which show these cars in use without door locks in 1951 and 1957.
Hope this helps.
Bill Harley

On Apr 23, 2021, at 12:16 AM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I've had a model of a 42' Gondola made by PSC for quite some time.  I'm trying to understand what I actually have. There is no documentation in the box and nothing really at all about this model online.  Maybe the SRHA helped PSC when this model was originally imported? It strikes me as an odd model to import, but it seems rare, so maybe it was a good choice. 

I was originally looking to paint and letter it for GB 180441 as shown on the 6th page from the last page in the SOU freight car color guide despite some of the cosmetic differences.

The box-end says "Southern Railway 42' Gondola (6-door), Enterprise Rwy. Equipment Co.  A photo of the box end:
<scale-brass-psc-southern-railway-42.jpg>

My car is unpainted, but I found one that someone did up as car 315784 on brasstrains:
https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/119483/O-Brass-Model-PSC-SOU-Southern-42-Gondola-315784-Custom-Lhee-Do-Wrong-Box

While done well, I know good and well not to trust someone else's paint job. I took a look at my OCT 1968 ORER for both the 180200-180999 series and the 315700-315949 series and here is what I see below:

<G102_G112_1968 ORER.jpg>

Interestingly, I measured the outside length (over the "strikers") to be 10.5" which translates to 42'. Even with couplers it still would be a foot short of the 45'11" listed for either series.  I am pretty sure the 180441 was wrong, but it looks like 315784 may be a foobie as well. (The dimensions are interestingly identical...more on that next.)

I then took a look at my Freight equipment diagram book (vol1) and after looking through the gondolas (all from a 1971 diagram book), found a few drawings that describe the above series, but not necessarily the car I have.  These are on pages G2154 and G2155. There in the special notes, it actually says that 315700-315949 were rebuilt into the 180200-180999 series in 1968.  The diagrams also note that the drop-bottom doors in the sill were made by Enterprise, which is the same name shown on the box ends, even though the car builder was very likely someone like Mt. Vernon.

So my questions are:
1. What do I have a model of? ie - What series is from?
2. Do we know if any made it to late the 60's? (and without retrofit)
3. If its unlikely such a car made it to the late 60's then I like my idea of sticking with my foobie repaint of it into 180441.  With that said, even with the ORER and the Diagram Book, I still need to figure out the LD LMT and the BLT Date. Any thoughts on those? The CAPY is 110000 and the LTWT is 45100. The "new" date would be in 1968, but I'm going to go with what I see on page G2155 and say this was built sometime back in 1940.

Thanks,
David Friedlander <G102_G112_1968 ORER.jpg>



<1619275245435blob.jpg>


locked Re: SOU 42' Gondola Questions

TIM ANDREWS
 

Could this be a similar car?

Inline image

Photo was made January 10, 2020 in Chattanooga







On Friday, April 23, 2021, 11:31:34 PM EDT, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:


Hi Bill,

Thank you for helping me with that information. Glad to see the other model is numbered correctly after all.  I'll have to think about what I want to do and either paint it similarly and weather it in rough shape, or possibly make some mods to it and/or just letter it in and Gothic and put it into MoW service with ties, tieplates, or rail.

Two questions if you don't mind me asking:
1. What source is Bob's Photo's? Is that someone on here, a photograph store, or similar?
2. By door locks, do you mean the ratcheting mechanisms on either side of the carbody?

Thanks,
David


On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 11:14 AM William Harley via groups.io <williamharley=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
David,
This is a model of a Southern Coal Gondola. 
The following information is from the Sunshine Models Prototype Data Sheet.
The Southern purchase 4447 of these from 1937-1941.
Cars from 1937 became CNO&TP 287000 - 287999 and AGS 315700 - 315949 (this is the series your car is numbered for).  Numbers from 175000 - 176344 from 1938, 176345 - 177376 from 1939 and 177377 - 178197 from 1941 were Southern cars.  The 1939 lot cars, the 176345 - 177376 series were built by Mt Vernon.  All other cars were built by ACF.
The cars were originally CAPY: 100,000.
I have a couple of photo’s from Bob’s Photos which show these cars in use without door locks in 1951 and 1957.
Hope this helps.
Bill Harley

On Apr 23, 2021, at 12:16 AM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I've had a model of a 42' Gondola made by PSC for quite some time.  I'm trying to understand what I actually have. There is no documentation in the box and nothing really at all about this model online.  Maybe the SRHA helped PSC when this model was originally imported? It strikes me as an odd model to import, but it seems rare, so maybe it was a good choice. 

I was originally looking to paint and letter it for GB 180441 as shown on the 6th page from the last page in the SOU freight car color guide despite some of the cosmetic differences.

The box-end says "Southern Railway 42' Gondola (6-door), Enterprise Rwy. Equipment Co.  A photo of the box end:
<scale-brass-psc-southern-railway-42.jpg>

My car is unpainted, but I found one that someone did up as car 315784 on brasstrains:
https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/119483/O-Brass-Model-PSC-SOU-Southern-42-Gondola-315784-Custom-Lhee-Do-Wrong-Box

While done well, I know good and well not to trust someone else's paint job. I took a look at my OCT 1968 ORER for both the 180200-180999 series and the 315700-315949 series and here is what I see below:

<G102_G112_1968 ORER.jpg>

Interestingly, I measured the outside length (over the "strikers") to be 10.5" which translates to 42'. Even with couplers it still would be a foot short of the 45'11" listed for either series.  I am pretty sure the 180441 was wrong, but it looks like 315784 may be a foobie as well. (The dimensions are interestingly identical...more on that next.)

I then took a look at my Freight equipment diagram book (vol1) and after looking through the gondolas (all from a 1971 diagram book), found a few drawings that describe the above series, but not necessarily the car I have.  These are on pages G2154 and G2155. There in the special notes, it actually says that 315700-315949 were rebuilt into the 180200-180999 series in 1968.  The diagrams also note that the drop-bottom doors in the sill were made by Enterprise, which is the same name shown on the box ends, even though the car builder was very likely someone like Mt. Vernon.

So my questions are:
1. What do I have a model of? ie - What series is from?
2. Do we know if any made it to late the 60's? (and without retrofit)
3. If its unlikely such a car made it to the late 60's then I like my idea of sticking with my foobie repaint of it into 180441.  With that said, even with the ORER and the Diagram Book, I still need to figure out the LD LMT and the BLT Date. Any thoughts on those? The CAPY is 110000 and the LTWT is 45100. The "new" date would be in 1968, but I'm going to go with what I see on page G2155 and say this was built sometime back in 1940.

Thanks,
David Friedlander <G102_G112_1968 ORER.jpg>


locked Re: SOU 42' Gondola Questions

David Carpenter
 

David,
Bob is in Wallingford KY. He will be at the Neuse River show in Raleigh May 1-2. (Next weekend!) His number is 606-748-1811
David Carpenter


On Apr 23, 2021, at 11:30 PM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:

Hi Bill,

Thank you for helping me with that information. Glad to see the other model is numbered correctly after all.  I'll have to think about what I want to do and either paint it similarly and weather it in rough shape, or possibly make some mods to it and/or just letter it in and Gothic and put it into MoW service with ties, tieplates, or rail.

Two questions if you don't mind me asking:
1. What source is Bob's Photo's? Is that someone on here, a photograph store, or similar?
2. By door locks, do you mean the ratcheting mechanisms on either side of the carbody?

Thanks,
David


On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 11:14 AM William Harley via groups.io <williamharley=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
David,
This is a model of a Southern Coal Gondola. 
The following information is from the Sunshine Models Prototype Data Sheet.
The Southern purchase 4447 of these from 1937-1941.
Cars from 1937 became CNO&TP 287000 - 287999 and AGS 315700 - 315949 (this is the series your car is numbered for).  Numbers from 175000 - 176344 from 1938, 176345 - 177376 from 1939 and 177377 - 178197 from 1941 were Southern cars.  The 1939 lot cars, the 176345 - 177376 series were built by Mt Vernon.  All other cars were built by ACF.
The cars were originally CAPY: 100,000.
I have a couple of photo’s from Bob’s Photos which show these cars in use without door locks in 1951 and 1957.
Hope this helps.
Bill Harley

On Apr 23, 2021, at 12:16 AM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I've had a model of a 42' Gondola made by PSC for quite some time.  I'm trying to understand what I actually have. There is no documentation in the box and nothing really at all about this model online.  Maybe the SRHA helped PSC when this model was originally imported? It strikes me as an odd model to import, but it seems rare, so maybe it was a good choice. 

I was originally looking to paint and letter it for GB 180441 as shown on the 6th page from the last page in the SOU freight car color guide despite some of the cosmetic differences.

The box-end says "Southern Railway 42' Gondola (6-door), Enterprise Rwy. Equipment Co.  A photo of the box end:
<scale-brass-psc-southern-railway-42.jpg>

My car is unpainted, but I found one that someone did up as car 315784 on brasstrains:
https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/119483/O-Brass-Model-PSC-SOU-Southern-42-Gondola-315784-Custom-Lhee-Do-Wrong-Box

While done well, I know good and well not to trust someone else's paint job. I took a look at my OCT 1968 ORER for both the 180200-180999 series and the 315700-315949 series and here is what I see below:

<G102_G112_1968 ORER.jpg>

Interestingly, I measured the outside length (over the "strikers") to be 10.5" which translates to 42'. Even with couplers it still would be a foot short of the 45'11" listed for either series.  I am pretty sure the 180441 was wrong, but it looks like 315784 may be a foobie as well. (The dimensions are interestingly identical...more on that next.)

I then took a look at my Freight equipment diagram book (vol1) and after looking through the gondolas (all from a 1971 diagram book), found a few drawings that describe the above series, but not necessarily the car I have.  These are on pages G2154 and G2155. There in the special notes, it actually says that 315700-315949 were rebuilt into the 180200-180999 series in 1968.  The diagrams also note that the drop-bottom doors in the sill were made by Enterprise, which is the same name shown on the box ends, even though the car builder was very likely someone like Mt. Vernon.

So my questions are:
1. What do I have a model of? ie - What series is from?
2. Do we know if any made it to late the 60's? (and without retrofit)
3. If its unlikely such a car made it to the late 60's then I like my idea of sticking with my foobie repaint of it into 180441.  With that said, even with the ORER and the Diagram Book, I still need to figure out the LD LMT and the BLT Date. Any thoughts on those? The CAPY is 110000 and the LTWT is 45100. The "new" date would be in 1968, but I'm going to go with what I see on page G2155 and say this was built sometime back in 1940.

Thanks,
David Friedlander <G102_G112_1968 ORER.jpg>





locked Re: SOU 42' Gondola Questions

David Friedlander
 

Hi Bill,

Thank you for helping me with that information. Glad to see the other model is numbered correctly after all.  I'll have to think about what I want to do and either paint it similarly and weather it in rough shape, or possibly make some mods to it and/or just letter it in and Gothic and put it into MoW service with ties, tieplates, or rail.

Two questions if you don't mind me asking:
1. What source is Bob's Photo's? Is that someone on here, a photograph store, or similar?
2. By door locks, do you mean the ratcheting mechanisms on either side of the carbody?

Thanks,
David


On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 11:14 AM William Harley via groups.io <williamharley=me.com@groups.io> wrote:
David,
This is a model of a Southern Coal Gondola. 
The following information is from the Sunshine Models Prototype Data Sheet.
The Southern purchase 4447 of these from 1937-1941.
Cars from 1937 became CNO&TP 287000 - 287999 and AGS 315700 - 315949 (this is the series your car is numbered for).  Numbers from 175000 - 176344 from 1938, 176345 - 177376 from 1939 and 177377 - 178197 from 1941 were Southern cars.  The 1939 lot cars, the 176345 - 177376 series were built by Mt Vernon.  All other cars were built by ACF.
The cars were originally CAPY: 100,000.
I have a couple of photo’s from Bob’s Photos which show these cars in use without door locks in 1951 and 1957.
Hope this helps.
Bill Harley

On Apr 23, 2021, at 12:16 AM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I've had a model of a 42' Gondola made by PSC for quite some time.  I'm trying to understand what I actually have. There is no documentation in the box and nothing really at all about this model online.  Maybe the SRHA helped PSC when this model was originally imported? It strikes me as an odd model to import, but it seems rare, so maybe it was a good choice. 

I was originally looking to paint and letter it for GB 180441 as shown on the 6th page from the last page in the SOU freight car color guide despite some of the cosmetic differences.

The box-end says "Southern Railway 42' Gondola (6-door), Enterprise Rwy. Equipment Co.  A photo of the box end:
<scale-brass-psc-southern-railway-42.jpg>

My car is unpainted, but I found one that someone did up as car 315784 on brasstrains:
https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/119483/O-Brass-Model-PSC-SOU-Southern-42-Gondola-315784-Custom-Lhee-Do-Wrong-Box

While done well, I know good and well not to trust someone else's paint job. I took a look at my OCT 1968 ORER for both the 180200-180999 series and the 315700-315949 series and here is what I see below:

<G102_G112_1968 ORER.jpg>

Interestingly, I measured the outside length (over the "strikers") to be 10.5" which translates to 42'. Even with couplers it still would be a foot short of the 45'11" listed for either series.  I am pretty sure the 180441 was wrong, but it looks like 315784 may be a foobie as well. (The dimensions are interestingly identical...more on that next.)

I then took a look at my Freight equipment diagram book (vol1) and after looking through the gondolas (all from a 1971 diagram book), found a few drawings that describe the above series, but not necessarily the car I have.  These are on pages G2154 and G2155. There in the special notes, it actually says that 315700-315949 were rebuilt into the 180200-180999 series in 1968.  The diagrams also note that the drop-bottom doors in the sill were made by Enterprise, which is the same name shown on the box ends, even though the car builder was very likely someone like Mt. Vernon.

So my questions are:
1. What do I have a model of? ie - What series is from?
2. Do we know if any made it to late the 60's? (and without retrofit)
3. If its unlikely such a car made it to the late 60's then I like my idea of sticking with my foobie repaint of it into 180441.  With that said, even with the ORER and the Diagram Book, I still need to figure out the LD LMT and the BLT Date. Any thoughts on those? The CAPY is 110000 and the LTWT is 45100. The "new" date would be in 1968, but I'm going to go with what I see on page G2155 and say this was built sometime back in 1940.

Thanks,
David Friedlander <G102_G112_1968 ORER.jpg>


locked Re: SOU 42' Gondola Questions

William Harley
 

David,
This is a model of a Southern Coal Gondola. 
The following information is from the Sunshine Models Prototype Data Sheet.
The Southern purchase 4447 of these from 1937-1941.
Cars from 1937 became CNO&TP 287000 - 287999 and AGS 315700 - 315949 (this is the series your car is numbered for).  Numbers from 175000 - 176344 from 1938, 176345 - 177376 from 1939 and 177377 - 178197 from 1941 were Southern cars.  The 1939 lot cars, the 176345 - 177376 series were built by Mt Vernon.  All other cars were built by ACF.
The cars were originally CAPY: 100,000.
I have a couple of photo’s from Bob’s Photos which show these cars in use without door locks in 1951 and 1957.
Hope this helps.
Bill Harley

On Apr 23, 2021, at 12:16 AM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I've had a model of a 42' Gondola made by PSC for quite some time.  I'm trying to understand what I actually have. There is no documentation in the box and nothing really at all about this model online.  Maybe the SRHA helped PSC when this model was originally imported? It strikes me as an odd model to import, but it seems rare, so maybe it was a good choice. 

I was originally looking to paint and letter it for GB 180441 as shown on the 6th page from the last page in the SOU freight car color guide despite some of the cosmetic differences.

The box-end says "Southern Railway 42' Gondola (6-door), Enterprise Rwy. Equipment Co.  A photo of the box end:
<scale-brass-psc-southern-railway-42.jpg>

My car is unpainted, but I found one that someone did up as car 315784 on brasstrains:
https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/119483/O-Brass-Model-PSC-SOU-Southern-42-Gondola-315784-Custom-Lhee-Do-Wrong-Box

While done well, I know good and well not to trust someone else's paint job. I took a look at my OCT 1968 ORER for both the 180200-180999 series and the 315700-315949 series and here is what I see below:

<G102_G112_1968 ORER.jpg>

Interestingly, I measured the outside length (over the "strikers") to be 10.5" which translates to 42'. Even with couplers it still would be a foot short of the 45'11" listed for either series.  I am pretty sure the 180441 was wrong, but it looks like 315784 may be a foobie as well. (The dimensions are interestingly identical...more on that next.)

I then took a look at my Freight equipment diagram book (vol1) and after looking through the gondolas (all from a 1971 diagram book), found a few drawings that describe the above series, but not necessarily the car I have.  These are on pages G2154 and G2155. There in the special notes, it actually says that 315700-315949 were rebuilt into the 180200-180999 series in 1968.  The diagrams also note that the drop-bottom doors in the sill were made by Enterprise, which is the same name shown on the box ends, even though the car builder was very likely someone like Mt. Vernon.

So my questions are:
1. What do I have a model of? ie - What series is from?
2. Do we know if any made it to late the 60's? (and without retrofit)
3. If its unlikely such a car made it to the late 60's then I like my idea of sticking with my foobie repaint of it into 180441.  With that said, even with the ORER and the Diagram Book, I still need to figure out the LD LMT and the BLT Date. Any thoughts on those? The CAPY is 110000 and the LTWT is 45100. The "new" date would be in 1968, but I'm going to go with what I see on page G2155 and say this was built sometime back in 1940.

Thanks,
David Friedlander <G102_G112_1968 ORER.jpg>


locked SOU 42' Gondola Questions

David Friedlander
 

Hi all,

I've had a model of a 42' Gondola made by PSC for quite some time.  I'm trying to understand what I actually have. There is no documentation in the box and nothing really at all about this model online.  Maybe the SRHA helped PSC when this model was originally imported? It strikes me as an odd model to import, but it seems rare, so maybe it was a good choice. 

I was originally looking to paint and letter it for GB 180441 as shown on the 6th page from the last page in the SOU freight car color guide despite some of the cosmetic differences.

The box-end says "Southern Railway 42' Gondola (6-door), Enterprise Rwy. Equipment Co.  A photo of the box end:


My car is unpainted, but I found one that someone did up as car 315784 on brasstrains:
https://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/119483/O-Brass-Model-PSC-SOU-Southern-42-Gondola-315784-Custom-Lhee-Do-Wrong-Box

While done well, I know good and well not to trust someone else's paint job. I took a look at my OCT 1968 ORER for both the 180200-180999 series and the 315700-315949 series and here is what I see below:



Interestingly, I measured the outside length (over the "strikers") to be 10.5" which translates to 42'. Even with couplers it still would be a foot short of the 45'11" listed for either series.  I am pretty sure the 180441 was wrong, but it looks like 315784 may be a foobie as well. (The dimensions are interestingly identical...more on that next.)

I then took a look at my Freight equipment diagram book (vol1) and after looking through the gondolas (all from a 1971 diagram book), found a few drawings that describe the above series, but not necessarily the car I have.  These are on pages G2154 and G2155. There in the special notes, it actually says that 315700-315949 were rebuilt into the 180200-180999 series in 1968.  The diagrams also note that the drop-bottom doors in the sill were made by Enterprise, which is the same name shown on the box ends, even though the car builder was very likely someone like Mt. Vernon.

So my questions are:
1. What do I have a model of? ie - What series is from?
2. Do we know if any made it to late the 60's? (and without retrofit)
3. If its unlikely such a car made it to the late 60's then I like my idea of sticking with my foobie repaint of it into 180441.  With that said, even with the ORER and the Diagram Book, I still need to figure out the LD LMT and the BLT Date. Any thoughts on those? The CAPY is 110000 and the LTWT is 45100. The "new" date would be in 1968, but I'm going to go with what I see on page G2155 and say this was built sometime back in 1940.

Thanks,
David Friedlander


locked Re: Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models

Rodney Shu
 

I look forward to meeting you soon     


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 2:01 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models
 
Rodney:

There must (!) be some videos of the Southern container cranes among the films SRHA received from NS a  number of years ago. (More videos than I remember, my Honda Accord was down on its springs with the load coming back from McDonough.)

Some were digitized and were/are available from Green Frog (well worth their price). Others have been put on DVDs but never sold because of the death of one of the GF folks…..another project we should re-start.

Ike

PS Plans cannot be finalized but our thought is to start archives work sessions with the June session.


On Apr 22, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

Thanks for the information.  I plan to be in Chattanooga at the next "work day" and will certainly look set aside some time to look through those files. I wonder if there are any short videos of the loading/unloading those containers.  As a boy I remember seeing many of those facilities from the windows of The Southerner. 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 10:58 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>; ModelingTheSouthern@southernrailway.groups.io <ModelingTheSouthern@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models
 
Rod:

I never managed handling COFC but the answer to your question can be found in the Rail-Highway files in the SRHA archives.

Two things are important to understand: The first TTX cars did not have end-of-car cushioning, “pigs” were chained in place on the cars before hitches were adopted. That was the reason the Southern used CTTX flats equipped with Pullman-Standard “Protecto-frame” hardware welded to their decks. The P-F units had their own unit numbers and were owned by the Southern. The containers of the period did not have a standard mounting arrangement. (Flexi-Van containers were not used with the CTTX hardware, they were eventually converted to trailers by welding them to chassis so they could be used in PB service.)

In addition to providing a tray like arrangement that held the containers, the P-F hardware provided cushioning by using a hydraulic arrangement between the tray/container and the flat car deck. (Note Vol 1 of (must have) “The TTX Story” by the PRRH&TS for photos and description.) The P-F system meant the TTX cars could not be used for Circus style loading, thus the Southern designed and built container cranes.

Eventually, container mounting standards, EOC cushioning and retractible cushioned hitches were developed making the limited use CTTX cars and P-F system obsolete.

Ike

The photo is an under construction HO version of a P-F flat. The part on the deck is fixed, the container mounting sits above that and extends from side to side preventing circus style operation. Trailers were placed on the car by the cranes.

<IMG_2913.jpg>

On Apr 21, 2021, at 10:07 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

I would like for those of you who managed the early handling of containers on flatcars  (without truck wheels or frames) for information as to why Southern initially handled  loading and unloading  of containers using overhead cranes that startled single track facilities at major  terminals. 

Rod S


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 1:59 PM
To: MFCL@groups.io <MFCL@groups.io>; PassengerCarList@groups.io <PassengerCarList@groups.io>; main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models
 
The “story” of the decline in passenger trains and development of railroad intermodal services (at least on the Southern Railway) is much more intertwined than I believe is typically understood. There is a considerable amount of information in the SRHA archives that details how the Southern wanted to get out of the passenger business but did not want to lose the revenues from the Post Office. The PO started the shift to regional distribution centers at the same time reduced passenger train schedules made using the railroads to move the mail less of an option.

Terminal mail handling facilities, and people, were a railroad expense passed along to the Post Office. The PO accepted the Southern’s offer to containerize mail “door to door” at PO facilities with drayage by the railroad. The process began with the Southern stopping passenger trains at its new intermodal terminals to pick up and drop off Southern owned containers on CTTX flat cars. As the Post Office developed its regional distribution system, passenger train schedules (not easily altered because of established departure and arrival times) became more of a problem for the mail, the PO asked if dedicated freight trains could be operated. (Bypassing passenger terminals with containerized mail was a serious revenue loss for the terminals.)

SR President D.W. Brosnan (known to hate passenger services and anything not seen as an efficient moneymaker), agreed even if it meant running very short trains. The railroad offered selected shippers the opportunity to ship trailers on those same trains and “intermodal” services in the Southeast began. (The first interline services (in the East) appear to have been between the Southern and the B&O, another user of CTTX flats. The PRR, via Pot Yard was less interested as they considered N-S traffic short-haul business.)

So…my question about Flexi-Vans. Were they promoted by the Post Office or did railroads simply see them as an effective way to carry containers? The Southern Flexi-Van flats were all sold (?) to the NYC and the Strick containers (not easily adapted for std PB) were welded to chassis to become trailers as the Southern expanded its “Rail-Highway” strategy

Ike









locked Re: Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models

George Eichelberger
 

Rodney:

There must (!) be some videos of the Southern container cranes among the films SRHA received from NS a  number of years ago. (More videos than I remember, my Honda Accord was down on its springs with the load coming back from McDonough.)

Some were digitized and were/are available from Green Frog (well worth their price). Others have been put on DVDs but never sold because of the death of one of the GF folks…..another project we should re-start.

Ike

PS Plans cannot be finalized but our thought is to start archives work sessions with the June session.


On Apr 22, 2021, at 2:43 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

Thanks for the information.  I plan to be in Chattanooga at the next "work day" and will certainly look set aside some time to look through those files. I wonder if there are any short videos of the loading/unloading those containers.  As a boy I remember seeing many of those facilities from the windows of The Southerner. 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 10:58 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>; ModelingTheSouthern@southernrailway.groups.io <ModelingTheSouthern@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models
 
Rod:

I never managed handling COFC but the answer to your question can be found in the Rail-Highway files in the SRHA archives.

Two things are important to understand: The first TTX cars did not have end-of-car cushioning, “pigs” were chained in place on the cars before hitches were adopted. That was the reason the Southern used CTTX flats equipped with Pullman-Standard “Protecto-frame” hardware welded to their decks. The P-F units had their own unit numbers and were owned by the Southern. The containers of the period did not have a standard mounting arrangement. (Flexi-Van containers were not used with the CTTX hardware, they were eventually converted to trailers by welding them to chassis so they could be used in PB service.)

In addition to providing a tray like arrangement that held the containers, the P-F hardware provided cushioning by using a hydraulic arrangement between the tray/container and the flat car deck. (Note Vol 1 of (must have) “The TTX Story” by the PRRH&TS for photos and description.) The P-F system meant the TTX cars could not be used for Circus style loading, thus the Southern designed and built container cranes.

Eventually, container mounting standards, EOC cushioning and retractible cushioned hitches were developed making the limited use CTTX cars and P-F system obsolete.

Ike

The photo is an under construction HO version of a P-F flat. The part on the deck is fixed, the container mounting sits above that and extends from side to side preventing circus style operation. Trailers were placed on the car by the cranes.

<IMG_2913.jpg>

On Apr 21, 2021, at 10:07 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

I would like for those of you who managed the early handling of containers on flatcars  (without truck wheels or frames) for information as to why Southern initially handled  loading and unloading  of containers using overhead cranes that startled single track facilities at major  terminals. 

Rod S


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 1:59 PM
To: MFCL@groups.io <MFCL@groups.io>; PassengerCarList@groups.io <PassengerCarList@groups.io>; main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models
 
The “story” of the decline in passenger trains and development of railroad intermodal services (at least on the Southern Railway) is much more intertwined than I believe is typically understood. There is a considerable amount of information in the SRHA archives that details how the Southern wanted to get out of the passenger business but did not want to lose the revenues from the Post Office. The PO started the shift to regional distribution centers at the same time reduced passenger train schedules made using the railroads to move the mail less of an option.

Terminal mail handling facilities, and people, were a railroad expense passed along to the Post Office. The PO accepted the Southern’s offer to containerize mail “door to door” at PO facilities with drayage by the railroad. The process began with the Southern stopping passenger trains at its new intermodal terminals to pick up and drop off Southern owned containers on CTTX flat cars. As the Post Office developed its regional distribution system, passenger train schedules (not easily altered because of established departure and arrival times) became more of a problem for the mail, the PO asked if dedicated freight trains could be operated. (Bypassing passenger terminals with containerized mail was a serious revenue loss for the terminals.)

SR President D.W. Brosnan (known to hate passenger services and anything not seen as an efficient moneymaker), agreed even if it meant running very short trains. The railroad offered selected shippers the opportunity to ship trailers on those same trains and “intermodal” services in the Southeast began. (The first interline services (in the East) appear to have been between the Southern and the B&O, another user of CTTX flats. The PRR, via Pot Yard was less interested as they considered N-S traffic short-haul business.)

So…my question about Flexi-Vans. Were they promoted by the Post Office or did railroads simply see them as an effective way to carry containers? The Southern Flexi-Van flats were all sold (?) to the NYC and the Strick containers (not easily adapted for std PB) were welded to chassis to become trailers as the Southern expanded its “Rail-Highway” strategy

Ike









locked Re: Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models

Rodney Shu
 

Thanks for the information.  I plan to be in Chattanooga at the next "work day" and will certainly look set aside some time to look through those files. I wonder if there are any short videos of the loading/unloading those containers.  As a boy I remember seeing many of those facilities from the windows of The Southerner. 


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 10:58 PM
To: main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>; ModelingTheSouthern@southernrailway.groups.io <ModelingTheSouthern@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models
 
Rod:

I never managed handling COFC but the answer to your question can be found in the Rail-Highway files in the SRHA archives.

Two things are important to understand: The first TTX cars did not have end-of-car cushioning, “pigs” were chained in place on the cars before hitches were adopted. That was the reason the Southern used CTTX flats equipped with Pullman-Standard “Protecto-frame” hardware welded to their decks. The P-F units had their own unit numbers and were owned by the Southern. The containers of the period did not have a standard mounting arrangement. (Flexi-Van containers were not used with the CTTX hardware, they were eventually converted to trailers by welding them to chassis so they could be used in PB service.)

In addition to providing a tray like arrangement that held the containers, the P-F hardware provided cushioning by using a hydraulic arrangement between the tray/container and the flat car deck. (Note Vol 1 of (must have) “The TTX Story” by the PRRH&TS for photos and description.) The P-F system meant the TTX cars could not be used for Circus style loading, thus the Southern designed and built container cranes.

Eventually, container mounting standards, EOC cushioning and retractible cushioned hitches were developed making the limited use CTTX cars and P-F system obsolete.

Ike

The photo is an under construction HO version of a P-F flat. The part on the deck is fixed, the container mounting sits above that and extends from side to side preventing circus style operation. Trailers were placed on the car by the cranes.



On Apr 21, 2021, at 10:07 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

I would like for those of you who managed the early handling of containers on flatcars  (without truck wheels or frames) for information as to why Southern initially handled  loading and unloading  of containers using overhead cranes that startled single track facilities at major  terminals. 

Rod S


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 1:59 PM
To: MFCL@groups.io <MFCL@groups.io>; PassengerCarList@groups.io <PassengerCarList@groups.io>; main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models
 
The “story” of the decline in passenger trains and development of railroad intermodal services (at least on the Southern Railway) is much more intertwined than I believe is typically understood. There is a considerable amount of information in the SRHA archives that details how the Southern wanted to get out of the passenger business but did not want to lose the revenues from the Post Office. The PO started the shift to regional distribution centers at the same time reduced passenger train schedules made using the railroads to move the mail less of an option.

Terminal mail handling facilities, and people, were a railroad expense passed along to the Post Office. The PO accepted the Southern’s offer to containerize mail “door to door” at PO facilities with drayage by the railroad. The process began with the Southern stopping passenger trains at its new intermodal terminals to pick up and drop off Southern owned containers on CTTX flat cars. As the Post Office developed its regional distribution system, passenger train schedules (not easily altered because of established departure and arrival times) became more of a problem for the mail, the PO asked if dedicated freight trains could be operated. (Bypassing passenger terminals with containerized mail was a serious revenue loss for the terminals.)

SR President D.W. Brosnan (known to hate passenger services and anything not seen as an efficient moneymaker), agreed even if it meant running very short trains. The railroad offered selected shippers the opportunity to ship trailers on those same trains and “intermodal” services in the Southeast began. (The first interline services (in the East) appear to have been between the Southern and the B&O, another user of CTTX flats. The PRR, via Pot Yard was less interested as they considered N-S traffic short-haul business.)

So…my question about Flexi-Vans. Were they promoted by the Post Office or did railroads simply see them as an effective way to carry containers? The Southern Flexi-Van flats were all sold (?) to the NYC and the Strick containers (not easily adapted for std PB) were welded to chassis to become trailers as the Southern expanded its “Rail-Highway” strategy

Ike








locked Re: SRHA wearables

Kevin Centers
 

All,

Just a reminder that this is the last week to order your SRHA swag in black. We’ll continue to carry the green items. So go out and order some of both for your summer wardrobe. 

Kevin


On Apr 2, 2021, at 12:34 PM, Kevin Centers <klcenters@...> wrote:


All,

SRHA recently partnered with Squadlocker to provide wearable items for its members. We currently offer hats, ladies and men’s polo shirts, and lightweight jackets. All are embroidered with the SRHA logo. The caps and polos can even be personalized at a marginally extra cost. Our company store can be found here:
You simply choose the items you want, along with the size, and place your order. Typically you will receive your order with 10-13 days. The quality is great and they items look very nice. 
BUT WAIT, THERE’S MORE...
For the month of April ONLY, you can order our items in black or green. Trust me they both look great. And we’ve included an overnight/gym bag too. But remember the bag and black items will go away after April. So order yours today. Below are some photos of the items. 

Thanks,

Kevin Centers
Treasurer SRHA

<image0.jpeg>
<image1.jpeg>

<image3.jpeg>
<image4.jpeg>


locked Re: Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models

George Eichelberger
 

Rod:

I never managed handling COFC but the answer to your question can be found in the Rail-Highway files in the SRHA archives.

Two things are important to understand: The first TTX cars did not have end-of-car cushioning, “pigs” were chained in place on the cars before hitches were adopted. That was the reason the Southern used CTTX flats equipped with Pullman-Standard “Protecto-frame” hardware welded to their decks. The P-F units had their own unit numbers and were owned by the Southern. The containers of the period did not have a standard mounting arrangement. (Flexi-Van containers were not used with the CTTX hardware, they were eventually converted to trailers by welding them to chassis so they could be used in PB service.)

In addition to providing a tray like arrangement that held the containers, the P-F hardware provided cushioning by using a hydraulic arrangement between the tray/container and the flat car deck. (Note Vol 1 of (must have) “The TTX Story” by the PRRH&TS for photos and description.) The P-F system meant the TTX cars could not be used for Circus style loading, thus the Southern designed and built container cranes.

Eventually, container mounting standards, EOC cushioning and retractible cushioned hitches were developed making the limited use CTTX cars and P-F system obsolete.

Ike

The photo is an under construction HO version of a P-F flat. The part on the deck is fixed, the container mounting sits above that and extends from side to side preventing circus style operation. Trailers were placed on the car by the cranes.



On Apr 21, 2021, at 10:07 PM, Rodney Shu <rodshu@...> wrote:

I would like for those of you who managed the early handling of containers on flatcars  (without truck wheels or frames) for information as to why Southern initially handled  loading and unloading  of containers using overhead cranes that startled single track facilities at major  terminals. 

Rod S


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 1:59 PM
To: MFCL@groups.io <MFCL@groups.io>; PassengerCarList@groups.io <PassengerCarList@groups.io>; main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models
 
The “story” of the decline in passenger trains and development of railroad intermodal services (at least on the Southern Railway) is much more intertwined than I believe is typically understood. There is a considerable amount of information in the SRHA archives that details how the Southern wanted to get out of the passenger business but did not want to lose the revenues from the Post Office. The PO started the shift to regional distribution centers at the same time reduced passenger train schedules made using the railroads to move the mail less of an option.

Terminal mail handling facilities, and people, were a railroad expense passed along to the Post Office. The PO accepted the Southern’s offer to containerize mail “door to door” at PO facilities with drayage by the railroad. The process began with the Southern stopping passenger trains at its new intermodal terminals to pick up and drop off Southern owned containers on CTTX flat cars. As the Post Office developed its regional distribution system, passenger train schedules (not easily altered because of established departure and arrival times) became more of a problem for the mail, the PO asked if dedicated freight trains could be operated. (Bypassing passenger terminals with containerized mail was a serious revenue loss for the terminals.)

SR President D.W. Brosnan (known to hate passenger services and anything not seen as an efficient moneymaker), agreed even if it meant running very short trains. The railroad offered selected shippers the opportunity to ship trailers on those same trains and “intermodal” services in the Southeast began. (The first interline services (in the East) appear to have been between the Southern and the B&O, another user of CTTX flats. The PRR, via Pot Yard was less interested as they considered N-S traffic short-haul business.)

So…my question about Flexi-Vans. Were they promoted by the Post Office or did railroads simply see them as an effective way to carry containers? The Southern Flexi-Van flats were all sold (?) to the NYC and the Strick containers (not easily adapted for std PB) were welded to chassis to become trailers as the Southern expanded its “Rail-Highway” strategy

Ike








locked Re: Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models

Rodney Shu
 

I would like for those of you who managed the early handling of containers on flatcars  (without truck wheels or frames) for information as to why Southern initially handled  loading and unloading  of containers using overhead cranes that startled single track facilities at major  terminals. 

Rod S


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...>
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2021 1:59 PM
To: MFCL@groups.io <MFCL@groups.io>; PassengerCarList@groups.io <PassengerCarList@groups.io>; main@southernrailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models
 
The “story” of the decline in passenger trains and development of railroad intermodal services (at least on the Southern Railway) is much more intertwined than I believe is typically understood. There is a considerable amount of information in the SRHA archives that details how the Southern wanted to get out of the passenger business but did not want to lose the revenues from the Post Office. The PO started the shift to regional distribution centers at the same time reduced passenger train schedules made using the railroads to move the mail less of an option.

Terminal mail handling facilities, and people, were a railroad expense passed along to the Post Office. The PO accepted the Southern’s offer to containerize mail “door to door” at PO facilities with drayage by the railroad. The process began with the Southern stopping passenger trains at its new intermodal terminals to pick up and drop off Southern owned containers on CTTX flat cars. As the Post Office developed its regional distribution system, passenger train schedules (not easily altered because of established departure and arrival times) became more of a problem for the mail, the PO asked if dedicated freight trains could be operated. (Bypassing passenger terminals with containerized mail was a serious revenue loss for the terminals.)

SR President D.W. Brosnan (known to hate passenger services and anything not seen as an efficient moneymaker), agreed even if it meant running very short trains. The railroad offered selected shippers the opportunity to ship trailers on those same trains and “intermodal” services in the Southeast began. (The first interline services (in the East) appear to have been between the Southern and the B&O, another user of CTTX flats. The PRR, via Pot Yard was less interested as they considered N-S traffic short-haul business.)

So…my question about Flexi-Vans. Were they promoted by the Post Office or did railroads simply see them as an effective way to carry containers? The Southern Flexi-Van flats were all sold (?) to the NYC and the Strick containers (not easily adapted for std PB) were welded to chassis to become trailers as the Southern expanded its “Rail-Highway” strategy

Ike







locked Re: Walthers Mark III & Mark IV Flexi-Van Flatcar Models

George Eichelberger
 

The “story” of the decline in passenger trains and development of railroad intermodal services (at least on the Southern Railway) is much more intertwined than I believe is typically understood. There is a considerable amount of information in the SRHA archives that details how the Southern wanted to get out of the passenger business but did not want to lose the revenues from the Post Office. The PO started the shift to regional distribution centers at the same time reduced passenger train schedules made using the railroads to move the mail less of an option.

Terminal mail handling facilities, and people, were a railroad expense passed along to the Post Office. The PO accepted the Southern’s offer to containerize mail “door to door” at PO facilities with drayage by the railroad. The process began with the Southern stopping passenger trains at its new intermodal terminals to pick up and drop off Southern owned containers on CTTX flat cars. As the Post Office developed its regional distribution system, passenger train schedules (not easily altered because of established departure and arrival times) became more of a problem for the mail, the PO asked if dedicated freight trains could be operated. (Bypassing passenger terminals with containerized mail was a serious revenue loss for the terminals.)

SR President D.W. Brosnan (known to hate passenger services and anything not seen as an efficient moneymaker), agreed even if it meant running very short trains. The railroad offered selected shippers the opportunity to ship trailers on those same trains and “intermodal” services in the Southeast began. (The first interline services (in the East) appear to have been between the Southern and the B&O, another user of CTTX flats. The PRR, via Pot Yard was less interested as they considered N-S traffic short-haul business.)

So…my question about Flexi-Vans. Were they promoted by the Post Office or did railroads simply see them as an effective way to carry containers? The Southern Flexi-Van flats were all sold (?) to the NYC and the Strick containers (not easily adapted for std PB) were welded to chassis to become trailers as the Southern expanded its “Rail-Highway” strategy

Ike


locked SOU 44T Photo Request

David Friedlander
 

Hi all,

I'm trying to work through a queue of projects and one is finishing up an article for a 44T water cooler stand I created.  Nothing crazy, and it was based off this photo:
http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/switchers/sou1952a.html

I was trying to find Gerald Widemark, but unfortunately, it looks like the prolific CNW modeler/railfan passed away last April.  I'm contacting the CNWHS to see if perhaps they now own the rights to the photo, but if anyone else has the rights to a photo of a 44T with this version of water cooler stand, I'd be grateful for use of the photo in the article.

Attached is an image of my O-scale model based on a Williams by Bachmann 44-tonner.  I am pretty sure 1951 didn't have one, but I wanted to model this regardless as I thought it was neat.

Thanks,
David Friedlander



locked Re: Southern box car preference, circa 1918

George Eichelberger
 

Michael:

I have scanned a number of documents with those comparisons, many “fallen flags” are represented. I’ll try to post something this wekend.

Ike


On Apr 15, 2021, at 5:11 PM, michael lowe <jimhill1867@...> wrote:

   Since WW1 had started, it could be the USRA was upset, the the Southern  boxcars weren't big enough to load war supplies , when they were unloaded on other railroads.
suppose they shipped cotton bales to textile plants in New England . The textile plant might have to use another rr boxcar, to ship out unitforms to a military warehouse,
resulting in at least one extra switch, and the empty southern car having to move empty back to the Southern..
    It might be possible to check the official railway equipment register or other sources to see the boxcar capacity of other railroads in comparison.
   Michael Lowe


locked Need Help With Images for 2021-3 TIES

Bill Schafer
 

I'm trying to wrap up 2021-3 TIES - its deadline is April 25, and I don't have many (or any) images for the time period covered by the 3rd installment (1935-1950) of our Akron Branch series. If anyone can help with images of trains and structures on the Akron Branch (Selma-Marion Junction-Akron) in that time period, I'd be grateful. Heck, I'll take anything on the Mobile Division south of Selma. I'd especially like to see diesels on the Mobile Division 1946-1965, if possible. 

The main feature in 2021-3 TIES will be on the Chattanooga Traction Co 1913-1934. I could use photos of the CT's electric freight motors (they had at least one steeplecab, and may also have performed freight work with an electric box-express unit), and images of passenger cars in downtown Chattanooga or on the Market Street Bridge. I think I have exhausted the on-line sources, so what I'm looking for is a scan of an image you might have at home. 

Thanks in advance for your help - please reply to editor@.... Again, the deadline is April 25. Thanks.

--Bill Schafer


locked Re: Southern box car preference, circa 1918

michael lowe
 

   Since WW1 had started, it could be the USRA was upset, the the Southern  boxcars weren't big enough to load war supplies , when they were unloaded on other railroads.
suppose they shipped cotton bales to textile plants in New England . The textile plant might have to use another rr boxcar, to ship out unitforms to a military warehouse,
resulting in at least one extra switch, and the empty southern car having to move empty back to the Southern..
    It might be possible to check the official railway equipment register or other sources to see the boxcar capacity of other railroads in comparison.
   Michael Lowe


locked Re: Southern box car preference, circa 1918

Paul Staller
 

George-

I  agree with the other Paul.  These documents are fascinating.  Please keep them coming.  In the meantime, hope you are well safe and sane.  Have a really good day.

Paul


On Tue, Apr 13, 2021 at 12:23 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
I mentioned in an earlier post that the Southern was not particularly interested in obtaining 50-Ton USRA box cars. Here (attached) is a 9-20-1918 memo to SR President Fairfax Harrison explaining why 30-T capy box cars are more suited to Southern’s territory and traffic base. Note that in 1918, “The South” was still an agrarian economy with not much heavy manufacturing. The memo is as much about the Southern’s business environment as it was about box car design.

Comments please! There is no reason to fill up the .io list if this kind of material is not of interest to many people.

I believe it IS a reason for people to donate both their cash and their time working on the SRHA archives material!

Ike

 


locked Re: Looking for Streamlined Observation Car Drumhead pictures

Rob Wingo
 

It would be great to get those back in the grab again.  

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