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locked Re: Dim memory

George Courtney
 

I hadn't thought about a TC office car.  That would make sense.  Perhaps it was only two diners being removed and serviced at Knoxville.  But my ancient memory says one, most likely the Tennessean was a N&W car.  Yet, why would a N&W diner be added in Washington instead of Lynchburg or Roanoke?  Perhaps I only recall some N&W cars that continued on to Chattanooga or Memphis on the Tennessean.  Anyone have knowledge of such cars?

George Courtney
locked Re: Dim memory

john w coniglio
 

I have seen 2 other possibilities, since TC pass. ended in about 1955. TC served Ft. Campbell and the cars you saw might have been troop movements.  I saw those trains a couple of times near my home on the belt line. The cars could have come from anywhere. Other idea is that until some time in the early 1960s, TC handled a few coaches carrying girls to Camp May? near Mayland. On the western end L&N brought the cars to Vine Hill near the state fairgrounds in Nashville. There TC picked them up and delivered them to Mayland. There could have been a similar move from Knoxville, I don't know. The info I do know is from watching trains and talking to TC crewmen.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 12:40 PM C J Wyatt <cjwyatt@...> wrote:
Very curious. Around that time, The Tennessean did indeed have a DC - Knoxville diner-lounge, Interesting, the Carolina Special also had a Knoxville - Columbia diner-lounge. This idea seems crazy, but I wonder if the diner-lounge's were taken somewhere past Knoxville for servicing and returned on the next morning's CS.

I agree that Tennesse Central was out of the passenger business then, but I wonder if the possible TC sighting was an office car from that road making an off-line trip.

Jack Wyatt

On Monday, June 13, 2022, 10:26:22 PM EDT, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:


Back in 1958 and 1959, at age 15 & 16, I worked at the Southern Railway Passenger station in Knoxville, Tn.  I only worked during the summers while school was out. I worked the evening shift from 3 pm to around 11 pm.  I sold Cokes and pre-made sandwiches and magazines at a stand in the station.  I have strong memories of Southern's Carolina Special pulling in, followed within 10 minutes if on time, the Tennessean.
Both trains were westbound.
My dim memory is of a Norfolk & Western passenger car being taken off the Tennessean and put on The Carolina Special.  I assumed the Carolina Special took the N&W car, it's maroon paint stands out, down to Harriman and interchanged it to the Tennessee Central to take to Nashville.
While I'm not sure about where the car was going, I'm sure about a N&W car being added to the Carolina Special.  Chats with Tennessee Central modelers say the TC wasn't offering passenger service at that time.  Once I think I read, the N&W car went on the end of a TC freight train for a few months.  Anyone have any knowledge of this?
I'm not saying my memory is correct.  But I've long had the memory of both trains being in the station longer than the Birmingham Special or Pelican were and of some switching action.  It's possible a diner was set off the Tennessean.  But my dim memory says the Carolina Special was scheduled to arrive first and departed second.  

George Courtney



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locked Re: Dim memory

C J Wyatt
 

Very curious. Around that time, The Tennessean did indeed have a DC - Knoxville diner-lounge, Interesting, the Carolina Special also had a Knoxville - Columbia diner-lounge. This idea seems crazy, but I wonder if the diner-lounge's were taken somewhere past Knoxville for servicing and returned on the next morning's CS.

I agree that Tennesse Central was out of the passenger business then, but I wonder if the possible TC sighting was an office car from that road making an off-line trip.

Jack Wyatt

On Monday, June 13, 2022, 10:26:22 PM EDT, George Courtney via groups.io <gsc3@...> wrote:


Back in 1958 and 1959, at age 15 & 16, I worked at the Southern Railway Passenger station in Knoxville, Tn.  I only worked during the summers while school was out. I worked the evening shift from 3 pm to around 11 pm.  I sold Cokes and pre-made sandwiches and magazines at a stand in the station.  I have strong memories of Southern's Carolina Special pulling in, followed within 10 minutes if on time, the Tennessean.
Both trains were westbound.
My dim memory is of a Norfolk & Western passenger car being taken off the Tennessean and put on The Carolina Special.  I assumed the Carolina Special took the N&W car, it's maroon paint stands out, down to Harriman and interchanged it to the Tennessee Central to take to Nashville.
While I'm not sure about where the car was going, I'm sure about a N&W car being added to the Carolina Special.  Chats with Tennessee Central modelers say the TC wasn't offering passenger service at that time.  Once I think I read, the N&W car went on the end of a TC freight train for a few months.  Anyone have any knowledge of this?
I'm not saying my memory is correct.  But I've long had the memory of both trains being in the station longer than the Birmingham Special or Pelican were and of some switching action.  It's possible a diner was set off the Tennessean.  But my dim memory says the Carolina Special was scheduled to arrive first and departed second.  

George Courtney

locked Dim memory

George Courtney
 

Back in 1958 and 1959, at age 15 & 16, I worked at the Southern Railway Passenger station in Knoxville, Tn.  I only worked during the summers while school was out. I worked the evening shift from 3 pm to around 11 pm.  I sold Cokes and pre-made sandwiches and magazines at a stand in the station.  I have strong memories of Southern's Carolina Special pulling in, followed within 10 minutes if on time, the Tennessean.
Both trains were westbound.
My dim memory is of a Norfolk & Western passenger car being taken off the Tennessean and put on The Carolina Special.  I assumed the Carolina Special took the N&W car, it's maroon paint stands out, down to Harriman and interchanged it to the Tennessee Central to take to Nashville.
While I'm not sure about where the car was going, I'm sure about a N&W car being added to the Carolina Special.  Chats with Tennessee Central modelers say the TC wasn't offering passenger service at that time.  Once I think I read, the N&W car went on the end of a TC freight train for a few months.  Anyone have any knowledge of this?
I'm not saying my memory is correct.  But I've long had the memory of both trains being in the station longer than the Birmingham Special or Pelican were and of some switching action.  It's possible a diner was set off the Tennessean.  But my dim memory says the Carolina Special was scheduled to arrive first and departed second.  

George Courtney
locked Re: Map of Winston Salem NC

A&Y Dave in MD
 

A&Y,


Also try this interactive satellite view with historic map overlay.

 

North Carolina Maps: City of Winston-Salem Zone Map, 1930 (unc.edu) 

 

Friday, June 10, 2022, 11:24:38 AM, you wrote:


Try:

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Jun 10, 2022, at 11:03 AM, southernalco <pearcottage@...> wrote:

Does anyone have an old map (30's or 40's or older ) of Winston Salem NC


locked Re: Map of Winston Salem NC

A&Y Dave in MD
 

Try:

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Jun 10, 2022, at 11:03 AM, southernalco <pearcottage@...> wrote:

Does anyone have an old map (30's or 40's or older ) of Winston Salem NC

locked Map of Winston Salem NC

southernalco
 

Does anyone have an old map (30's or 40's or older ) of Winston Salem NC
locked Re: C&NW, BR, D&W, HPRA&Southern and Yadkin Railroad

Matt Bumgarner
 

Email sent.


On Tue, May 31, 2022 at 6:38 PM George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:
Looking for experts and interested parties:

Among the Mr. Marvin Black’s major research files, Binder No 88 includes many documents, diesel orders and correspondence from and about the C&NW, BR, D&W, HPRA&Southern and Yadkin railroads. (If anyone knows all of those initials, they already begin to qualify as “knowledgable”.) The material (not yet scanned) could be made available for anyone particularly interested in those operations, esp. if they might be interested in producing an article for TIES, other historical group or commercial magazines.

Contact archives@....

Ike
locked C&NW, BR, D&W, HPRA&Southern and Yadkin Railroad

George Eichelberger
 

Looking for experts and interested parties:

Among the Mr. Marvin Black’s major research files, Binder No 88 includes many documents, diesel orders and correspondence from and about the C&NW, BR, D&W, HPRA&Southern and Yadkin railroads. (If anyone knows all of those initials, they already begin to qualify as “knowledgable”.) The material (not yet scanned) could be made available for anyone particularly interested in those operations, esp. if they might be interested in producing an article for TIES, other historical group or commercial magazines.

Contact archives@....

Ike
locked Re: Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s

Alexander Smart
 

Hi Gary

Thanks for your reply with helpful suggestions.
I checked out the TN valuation maps on the link, and they are very useful, lots to study.

I will now have a look at the aerial photos.

Thanks again.

Sandy
Oban, Scotland, UK


On 21 May 2022, at 14:12, Gary Bechdol <garyeb1947@...> wrote:

Hi, Sandy.

The Tennessee Comptroller's Office has valuation maps of all railroads in Tennessee available for free download at:


You will want to search Shelby County and Norfolk Southern Railway.

Aerial photos and topo maps are available for free viewing only at:


Gary E. Bechdol, PE
Stone Mountain, GA
Life Member:  SHRA, AREMA

On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 8:55 AM John Stewart <bhamrails@...> wrote:
Hello Sandy and all

Some suggestions:

Try accessing Sanborn maps through the Library of Congress website

Search:  loc sanborn maps Memphis

Try contacting the Memphis Rail and Trolley Museum, Mike Fleming, President and ask for sources; he’s a model railroader and knows a lot of folks in town

Since you’re seeking 1960s info I’d suggest going to the Memphis and Shelby County Division of Planning and Development.  For example they have online mapping and likely have older mapping as well

Try:

Historic Shelby County online historic aerial photos

Hope these ideas are helpful

John Stewart
Birmingham AL
locked Re: ETTs for the Atlanta-Birmingham line?

George Eichelberger
 

James and everyone:

A large percentage of ALL SR ETTs are in the SRHA archives and have ben scanned. The intention has been to publish the entire collection, most likely on-line. If any SRHA members are interested, and capable, of cropping, de-skewing and organizing the scans, they can be published by operating division, years or whatever is most logical.

If interested, send an email to archives@.... Better yet make plans to come to the June archives work session to see the work already done.

Ike


On May 21, 2022, at 9:51 PM, James Walton <whovianwil@...> wrote:

Hey all, does anyone happen to have scans of any employee timetables for the Atlanta-Birmingham line they would be willing to share? 

Timetables for the 40s and 50s would be great, but I'll gladly take anything.
locked ETTs for the Atlanta-Birmingham line?

James Walton
 

Hey all, does anyone happen to have scans of any employee timetables for the Atlanta-Birmingham line they would be willing to share? 

Timetables for the 40s and 50s would be great, but I'll gladly take anything.
locked Re: Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s

Gary Bechdol
 

Hi, Sandy.

The Tennessee Comptroller's Office has valuation maps of all railroads in Tennessee available for free download at:


You will want to search Shelby County and Norfolk Southern Railway.

Aerial photos and topo maps are available for free viewing only at:


Gary E. Bechdol, PE
Stone Mountain, GA
Life Member:  SHRA, AREMA

On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 8:55 AM John Stewart <bhamrails@...> wrote:
Hello Sandy and all

Some suggestions:

Try accessing Sanborn maps through the Library of Congress website

Search:  loc sanborn maps Memphis

Try contacting the Memphis Rail and Trolley Museum, Mike Fleming, President and ask for sources; he’s a model railroader and knows a lot of folks in town

Since you’re seeking 1960s info I’d suggest going to the Memphis and Shelby County Division of Planning and Development.  For example they have online mapping and likely have older mapping as well

Try:

Historic Shelby County online historic aerial photos

Hope these ideas are helpful

John Stewart
Birmingham AL
locked Re: Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s

John Stewart
 

Hello Sandy and all

Some suggestions:

Try accessing Sanborn maps through the Library of Congress website

Search: loc sanborn maps Memphis

Try contacting the Memphis Rail and Trolley Museum, Mike Fleming, President and ask for sources; he’s a model railroader and knows a lot of folks in town

Since you’re seeking 1960s info I’d suggest going to the Memphis and Shelby County Division of Planning and Development. For example they have online mapping and likely have older mapping as well

Try:

Historic Shelby County online historic aerial photos

Hope these ideas are helpful

John Stewart
Birmingham AL
locked Re: Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s

Alexander Smart
 

Hello

I posted a request for information about Memphis City Yard in the 1960s yesterday.

I forgot to mention that I would also be interested in Memphis employee timetables, freight train procedures and terminal books, lists of stations and sidings, training manuals, conductors’s time books, etc. These would allow me to plan accurate switching moves for individual industries with specific classified tracks and spurs, with car capacities for each, and to correctly block freights coming from Forrest and other yards.

Finally the maps on the Condren site are not sufficient for my needs, but I’m finding it hard to access relevant Sanborn fire insurance maps from the UK.
Any large scale map of that area in the 1960s would be welcome, or suggestions for access. I need streets, tracks and businesses shown with measurements if possible.

I would of course be happy to meet appropriate expenses incurred by anyone willing to assist me in this project.

Thanks again.

Sandy Smart

On 20 May 2022, at 21:58, Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

Mike Condron’s site is great but you already got that. I don’t know if Steve Forrest is on this group but he’d be another good source. He shot a lot of slide in that area a little later than your era but he’d know the area.

Also, please do not confuse Donnie Dixon’s site and SRHA Archives as the same material. Donnie got his collection from his own sources and not from the archives. His scans are is own work.

I look forward to seeing what you do with the layout. I grew up visiting my dad in Memphis in the 90s and early 2000s.

Jason Greene

On May 20, 2022, at 4:24 PM, Alexander Smart <agfsmart@...> wrote:

Hello

I am a SRHA member in Oban, Scotland, UK.

I would like to find more information about the Southern freight operations around City Yard Memphis, Tennessee in the 1960s. This was inspired by Zone B of a Southern Railway Track Map and Terminal Survey, Memphis TN, May 1980, which I found on a Donnie Dixon link from the SRHA.

I realise that Southern wasn’t a major player in the Memphis area, but it will allow me me interchange and transfer runs with, the IC, L&N, Frisco, Cotton Belt etc with appropriate locos and cars.

I have been constructing a small switching layout in HO based on the above, but would like to rebuild it into a larger, more accurate layout with the correct track plan, correct industries, accurate locos and rolling stock.
So far I have Memphis Furniture Mfg.Co.,Central Chemical, McDowell Industries Inc(Semmes Bag Co.), a team track and possibly Parts Inc. Getting photos of these industries has been almost impossible so far, even on the Internet.
This is the area along the Southern branch up from Forrest Yard, from Sledge St. to Linden Street.

However I need more information especially 1960s era photos of the exact area with industries, length of spurs, trackage etc.
In addition I would welcome details of switching moves, transfer runs to other yards, locos used and rosters etc.
Did Southern allow other roads to make transfer runs to City Yard or just to Forrest Yard?
I would love to justify visits from other roads’ locos to my yard.

I have been using Mike Condren’s Memphis Railroad Pages as a good source of maps and photos but have now exhausted this source.

If any members live in the Memphis area or have a knowledge of the above, I would welcome any information or suggestions.

Apologies for such a long post!

Kind regards

Sandy Smart
#9023
locked Re: Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s

Jason Greene
 

Mike Condron’s site is great but you already got that. I don’t know if Steve Forrest is on this group but he’d be another good source. He shot a lot of slide in that area a little later than your era but he’d know the area.

Also, please do not confuse Donnie Dixon’s site and SRHA Archives as the same material. Donnie got his collection from his own sources and not from the archives. His scans are is own work.

I look forward to seeing what you do with the layout. I grew up visiting my dad in Memphis in the 90s and early 2000s.

Jason Greene

On May 20, 2022, at 4:24 PM, Alexander Smart <agfsmart@...> wrote:

Hello

I am a SRHA member in Oban, Scotland, UK.

I would like to find more information about the Southern freight operations around City Yard Memphis, Tennessee in the 1960s. This was inspired by Zone B of a Southern Railway Track Map and Terminal Survey, Memphis TN, May 1980, which I found on a Donnie Dixon link from the SRHA.

I realise that Southern wasn’t a major player in the Memphis area, but it will allow me me interchange and transfer runs with, the IC, L&N, Frisco, Cotton Belt etc with appropriate locos and cars.

I have been constructing a small switching layout in HO based on the above, but would like to rebuild it into a larger, more accurate layout with the correct track plan, correct industries, accurate locos and rolling stock.
So far I have Memphis Furniture Mfg.Co.,Central Chemical, McDowell Industries Inc(Semmes Bag Co.), a team track and possibly Parts Inc. Getting photos of these industries has been almost impossible so far, even on the Internet.
This is the area along the Southern branch up from Forrest Yard, from Sledge St. to Linden Street.

However I need more information especially 1960s era photos of the exact area with industries, length of spurs, trackage etc.
In addition I would welcome details of switching moves, transfer runs to other yards, locos used and rosters etc.
Did Southern allow other roads to make transfer runs to City Yard or just to Forrest Yard?
I would love to justify visits from other roads’ locos to my yard.

I have been using Mike Condren’s Memphis Railroad Pages as a good source of maps and photos but have now exhausted this source.

If any members live in the Memphis area or have a knowledge of the above, I would welcome any information or suggestions.

Apologies for such a long post!

Kind regards

Sandy Smart
#9023
locked Information about Southern City Yard Memphis TN in 1960s

Alexander Smart
 

Hello

I am a SRHA member in Oban, Scotland, UK.

I would like to find more information about the Southern freight operations around City Yard Memphis, Tennessee in the 1960s. This was inspired by Zone B of a Southern Railway Track Map and Terminal Survey, Memphis TN, May 1980, which I found on a Donnie Dixon link from the SRHA.

I realise that Southern wasn’t a major player in the Memphis area, but it will allow me me interchange and transfer runs with, the IC, L&N, Frisco, Cotton Belt etc with appropriate locos and cars.

I have been constructing a small switching layout in HO based on the above, but would like to rebuild it into a larger, more accurate layout with the correct track plan, correct industries, accurate locos and rolling stock.
So far I have Memphis Furniture Mfg.Co.,Central Chemical, McDowell Industries Inc(Semmes Bag Co.), a team track and possibly Parts Inc. Getting photos of these industries has been almost impossible so far, even on the Internet.
This is the area along the Southern branch up from Forrest Yard, from Sledge St. to Linden Street.

However I need more information especially 1960s era photos of the exact area with industries, length of spurs, trackage etc.
In addition I would welcome details of switching moves, transfer runs to other yards, locos used and rosters etc.
Did Southern allow other roads to make transfer runs to City Yard or just to Forrest Yard?
I would love to justify visits from other roads’ locos to my yard.

I have been using Mike Condren’s Memphis Railroad Pages as a good source of maps and photos but have now exhausted this source.

If any members live in the Memphis area or have a knowledge of the above, I would welcome any information or suggestions.

Apologies for such a long post!

Kind regards

Sandy Smart
#9023
locked Unsubscription - Gladhand1@comcast.net has left main@SouthernRailway.groups.io

George Eichelberger
 

As one of the SRHA people that handle the SR.io group, a notice comes to me whenever anyone joins or leaves the group. 

This one, for long time SRHA member Dick Fisher, was a sad reminder that, last year, we lost an extremely knowledgable member that had a wealth of railroad experience….and was a really, really nice guy! I appreciate being reminded about Dick but sad to think again he is lost to us.

The "Green Light” shined a little dimmer with his passing….

Ike

PS Might Bill Schafer post Dick’s mention in the current TIES Magazine “I have finished my course” for all to see?



Begin forwarded message:

Subject: [SouthernRailway] Unsubscription - Gladhand1@... has left main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Date: May 5, 2022 at 4:06:10 PM EDT

This is to notify you that Dick Fisher <Gladhand1@...> has left your group main@SouthernRailway.groups.io.
locked Checking in and a question!

Ed Burnett
 

How are you doing, Can I ask a favor?

Edward

locked Re: Mr. Marvin Black's Southern Diesel Research

George Eichelberger
 

If anyone, or any foundation, historical group... can fund someone to work at the archives to organize, index, scan, copy, upload to the NAS…whatever. We can promise books, articles, copies, access and indexes to what we have will come out a lot faster! (A quick look at the storage says we have more than 5TB of digital files at this point, a number that is growing all the time.)

Ike


On Apr 24, 2022, at 2:32 PM, A&Y Dave in MD <dbott@...> wrote:

I like the big image files for archiving and research since you can read carbon copies, faded ink, and marginal notes in pencil or wax. But I agree that converting to 72 dpi and using optical character recognition to create a searchable PDF is great option for clear typewritten documents to share widely.

Sent from Dave Bott's iPhone

On Apr 24, 2022, at 2:22 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@...> wrote:

John:

The example I posted shows only a fraction of the content in the material Marvin accumulated. (As a Sou-NS employee he had access to railroad files and most certainly volunteered when material was to be disposed of.) Anyone that attends the joint SRHA-L&NHS-RPM at TVRM in Sept/Oct is welcome to visit the archives building a get the $.05 tour.

I’ve attached another example. Admittedly, it’s the kind of thing only a “hard core” modeler or railfan would care about but as you are both…..

There are dozens of Diesel assignments, modifications, retirements, etc. in Marvin’s notebooks. The SR diesel books I am doing will include many photos but the text goes far beyond that. (A “teaser” for the FT Introduction was in TIES some time ago if anyone wants to see an example of what the books will look like. The draft was getting to nearly 500 pages (to large to print/sell because of cost) so it’ll be split into multiple books to get them done and available at a reasonable price.)

Ike

PS Re storage on the .io groups. We are in the process of putting a Networked Storage system in place. (Multiple disks, fully redundant, etc.)  Anyone is: welcome to help defray its cost and help get it organized and our data loaded. Also the local area SRHA-L&NHS-TVRM network, including fiber optic connections between multiple TVRM buildings project is moving ahead..all opportunities to learn and help! We have not established who/how/costs to get to everything but the “NAS” will be our on-line repository, not the .io group.


<1951-2-20 Ludlow Passenger Pool as of 2-20-51.jpeg>

On Apr 24, 2022, at 1:27 PM, John Willis <willisjc@...> wrote:

George,

If all the information is of the same quality, Mr. Black's contribution is to be lauded in the highest terms. Thanks for sharing this sample.

These jpg's can be resized to 800x600 with no discernible readability concerns. The file saving is immense. From megabytes to a couple hundred kilobytes. I use Irfanview, but most graphic viewers have similar resizing tools              ( virtually every type of graphic is handled by this program with the ability to save into whichever format needed or wanted ). I also use this when posting graphics to reduce bandwidth for those who may not be able to easily receive large files  (The courteous thing to do ). Large files are for archival uses and where storage capacity is of less or no concern.

John


John C. Willis
401 - 420 of 1939