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locked Re: Authorization for Car Assignment (ACA)

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Ike,
Since Trailer Train's intermodal cars have always been stenciled for restricted loading only, I would not read "return to general service" as returning cars to intermodal service, but to regular flat car service as AAR type FMS with reporting marks JTTX.  Then they could be used for long loads like pipe until they rebodied them for wide body racks.

While Trailer Train did have low-deck flats in piggyback service back then, the LTTX 500000 series, they were not quite the same carbodies as their thousands of low-deck rack flats.  Autoracks can be assumed to be carrying an equally distributed load on their decks.  A trailer flat, most definitely not.  Indeed, autoracks are the one North American freight car type where the car weighs more than its load.

Also, LTTXs did not have end-of-car cushioning, which was true of all of Trailer Train's trailer-only flats.  The cushioning was built into their hitches, which weighed a _lot_ less than an EOCC unit.

It would interesting to read the context of this "Return to General Service" in earlier memos, but from my professional experience in intermodal and the evidence that the above referenced KTTX went right back into autorack service, I cannot imagine that it was ever intended to mean "release for intermodal service," at least not in 1978 and for those classes.

Now if you want to sit through a clinic on the 1980's Twin-45 program, I can give you a blow-by-blow account of rack flats that were converted to pig flats and vice versa.  It was dizzying.....

Scott Chatfield
Formerly of the Southern's intermodal department 
locked Re: Authorization for Car Assignment (ACA)

George Eichelberger
 

PS The memo mentions “re-racking”, that appears to disagree with other memos AND “RGS” (return to general service) at TTX usually refers to cars to be used for intermodal…. Going backwards in the memos chronos may clearer?

Ike
locked Re: Authorization for Car Assignment (ACA)

George Eichelberger
 

Scott:

There are several memos related to this "de-racking" program. References to the entire program mention TT wanted them returned for intermodal service. Although these two pages from a 3-3-78 memo to Trailer Train do not go into exact details for every car, I see no reason to think they were included in the program in error? (Note car numbers mentioned in ACA.)

Ike
locked Re: Authorization for Car Assignment (ACA)

D. Scott Chatfield
 

Ike,

That's an interesting document, but those cars weren't released to Trailer Train for use as intermodal flats.  Those flats were Trailer Train classes F89CH and F89DH, and I don't recall any of those ever being used as pig flats.

In fact, at least two of those car numbers are specifically called out in the January 1980 ORER as wearing TTKX reporting marks, which was just a slightly different version of a hinged-deck tri-level rack.  Since no new KTTX or TTKX racks were being built in 1978 that I'm aware of, I would have to conclude that the existing rack was just modified. 

Most of the rest of the numbers are individually listed in January 1980 as ETTXs (fully enclosed "wide-body" tri-levels).  This conversion did require the old rack to be cut off,  and the carbody was converted to a "wide body bowl deck" and the classes changed to F89CHW and F89DHW.  This was a major rebuild program as far as the flat car was concerned.

Scott Chatfield
locked Sou Two-letter Maint. & Pool Point Stencils

George Eichelberger
 

Last weekend was another productive SRHA archives work session. The attached four pages are for a topic that comes up often.

The next work session will be March 18 and 19. These four scans are less than 1% of the material scanned from the last work session. For anyone interested in seeing ALL of what we are finding…you need to go to Chattanooga! (If you cannot get to Chattanooga….make a donation toward the new scanners and network equipment SRHA is buying.)

Ike

PS To save storage space on the .io group, this will be deleted soon.
locked Authorization for Car Assignment (ACA)

George Eichelberger
 

When cars, of any type, either assigned to a particular shipper or service (or were released from that assignment), an “ACA” was prepared and distributed. The SRHA archives have a large number of ACAs but they are certainly only a minor percentage of the total. If a car had to be sent to Hayne, or a contract shop, to be modified to have special equipment installed (removed) we find the paperwork in our Hayne or Coster Shop files but assignments made without shopping the equipment apparently stayed in the Marketing Dept. files and SRHA does not have them.

Here is an example of ACA 2938 dated 5-19-78 that was part of ACP-852-A that “de-racked” 54 TTX cars. The 12 cars in this ACA were assigned to various GM assembly plants. The ACP (Automobile Car Program) was part of a “turn-back” program to TTX so the cars could be used in intermodal service. 

The archives files on both “auto racks” and “intermodal” are extensive. Volunteers interested in either are welcome to come to an archive work session to help get them organized and scanned…for future publication?

Ike
locked Coastal Division Track Profile

Tom Holley
 

Hello, list.

I am looking for a late 1960s through mid 1970s Coastal Division track profile. I have one from 1982, but need an earlier one with the G&F, S&A, and Georgia Northern trackage.

Regards,

Tom Holley
locked Passenger Car Drawings in the Southern Railway Historical Assoc. archives

George Eichelberger
 

We just finished a productive week-end work session at the SRHA/L&NHS/TVRM archives building at TVRM. It has been possible for us to scan “D” size drawings for several years but the new scanner improves both the quality and speed. As more modelers learn “CAD” software and 3-D printing, I expect we will see prototypes available that simply would never sell in enough volume to warrant producing them in injection molded plastic.

SRHA is fortunate to have most (!) of the original ink-on-linen or blue print copies of Southern Railway passenger car drawings from about 1888 through the lightweight era. As most of Southern’s passenger cars were “stock” Car Builder designs, the drawings are not limited to just the Southern. I’ve attached an example from the Pressed Steel Car Co. drawn 6-8-1915 for Southern 69’ steel passenger cars 1443, 1511-1543, 1547-1548 and M&O 203-206 and 343-346 (size and resolution has been drastically reduced to save bandwidth).

Although it is not quite possible to provide drawings on-demand, we will do whatever we can to help anyone with plans to produce passenger car parts or kits. Archives work sessions are the third Fri/Sat of every month, everyone is welcome to come and help. (archives@...)

Ike
locked Re: SD40-2 initial delivery questions

George Eichelberger
 

There are quite a few waybills and shipping notices for Southern diesel deliveries in the SRHA archives. The Monon was used for deliveries from EMD many times using the Monon-Southern line through French Lick. Waybills for locos to Louisville, French Lick, etc. typically did not show them as final destination for the move.

By including delivery to, say, Danville, KY, on a waybill via Louisville, the Southern participated in part of the freight charge. That charge was usually pre-paid by the shipper (as part of the quoted price and with Southern’s approval) and the Southern computed their portion of the shipment as a “discount” on the loco purchase. In the Louisville-Danville example, the locos would be “intercepted” and put in service at Louisville.

In other examples, the final destination on the waybill (“delivered” by the Southern) was in a state with low, or no, sales tax.

Note the attached EMD "shipment notice” for Sou 2329 on Dec. 19, 1968. IHB-Monon to Southern at Louisville was typical, the final destination, Jeffersontown, KY here was probably decided because of the tariff in effect at the time. We have several examples of the calculations the Southern prepared to find the best cost, route and destination for various orders By the late 1960s, deliveries avoided the PC because locos were damaged when PC handled them.

Ike

PS Delivery charges for new equipment were very (!) important factors when Southern was deciding on equipment purchases. PC&F submitted proposals for box cars several times but the cost to move cars across the country priced them out of the competition. Fruit Growers in Alexandria, VA had the best advantage. As both Southern and FGE were Virginia corporations, there was no sales tax.



On Feb 17, 2022, at 8:14 PM, Stuart Thayer via groups.io <StuThayer@...> wrote:

Charlie,
 
Wasn't it true that a lot of the new EMD deliveries to the Southern came down the Monon (later L&N)?  I know I have seen photos of brand new Southern units in SB Monon trains.
 
Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 2/17/2022 11:19:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, charlesspowell@... writes:
 
David,
Southern would typically take receive new units dead in tow, from EMD at Louisville. Since Southern used K&IT terminal in Louisville the new units would continue in tow to Danville, KY where the Mechanical Dept. would inspect and officially take delivery. They would then operate to Chattanooga. As Carl has said on Southern merchandise trains standard power was three SDs or four GPs so the SD40-2 got mixed in pretty quick. One exception was that once they proved  their reliability, solid consists of SD40-2s became standard power on a number of the unit coal trains.
Charlie

locked Re: SD40-2 initial delivery questions

Charles Powell
 

Stuart,
You are correct, the new EMDs typically came down on the Monon from Chicago. 

David,
In the 60s through the 80s the SDs 24, 35, 45, 40, and 40-2s could all be found mixed together regularly. The SD9s (and lone SD7) which came from the Central of Georgia and were non-dynamic brake equipped typically worked together in pairs around Atlanta and Birmingham a lot, being used to make heavy transfer runs from Norris or Inman yards to satellite yards or interchange. I do recall seeing the SD7(201?) on the head end of an AGS train heading to Chattanooga once. I imagine it was working its way to Chattanooga for an overhaul. 

Charlie
locked Re: Another SD40-2 Question

Robert Graham
 

That is an HTC truck with the casting holes blanked, somehow or for some unknown reason. It looks like possibly they were filled in, or even photoshopped out to me, but that is only speculation. The photo is undated, but obviously post-NS merger era, so, if a modification of some kind, it was a post-NS merger one. I have a 1975 shot of SOU 3239 with standard HTC trucks on both ends and shot her again as NS 3239 in 1994 still with HTC trucks. Other than the lack of casting holes in the sideframe, it appears to be a normal HTC truck. The long hood end truck in the posted photo of 3239 looks normal to me. If this was a test or trial of some sort, the truck sideframe would likely be wired with sensors for instrumentation; there is nothing to indicate that is occurring. There were truck modification trials done by EMD during the 1980's resulting in, among other tests, the "guided axle" trucks used under some of the early EMD AC traction models and the "radial" trucks now common on later EMD 70 series.

Bob Graham

-----------------------------------------

From: "James"
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Friday February 18 2022 9:13:15AM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] Another SD40-2 Question

While looking thru photos after David's question,I ran across this photo of 3239:

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/sd40-2/3239.jpg

The truck under the cab does not look like the standard SD-40-2 HTC truck.  Is it an older design or something Southern was testing?

locked Another SD40-2 Question

James
 

While looking thru photos after David's question,I ran across this photo of 3239:

http://southern.railfan.net/images/archive/southern/sd40-2/3239.jpg

The truck under the cab does not look like the standard SD-40-2 HTC truck.  Is it an older design or something Southern was testing?
locked Re: SD40-2 initial delivery questions

John Hedrick
 

Normal through train operating practice at that time was 3 SDs or 4 GPs.

John O. Hedrick
locked Re: SD40-2 initial delivery questions

Stuart Thayer
 

Charlie,
 
Wasn't it true that a lot of the new EMD deliveries to the Southern came down the Monon (later L&N)?  I know I have seen photos of brand new Southern units in SB Monon trains.
 
Stuart Thayer

In a message dated 2/17/2022 11:19:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, charlesspowell@... writes:
 

David,
Southern would typically take receive new units dead in tow, from EMD at Louisville. Since Southern used K&IT terminal in Louisville the new units would continue in tow to Danville, KY where the Mechanical Dept. would inspect and officially take delivery. They would then operate to Chattanooga. As Carl has said on Southern merchandise trains standard power was three SDs or four GPs so the SD40-2 got mixed in pretty quick. One exception was that once they proved  their reliability, solid consists of SD40-2s became standard power on a number of the unit coal trains.
Charlie

locked Re: SD40-2 initial delivery questions

Jason Greene
 

45s sandwiching a 35 or 40 was common from what I’ve seen in pictures. 

Jason Greene 

On Feb 17, 2022, at 5:09 PM, David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:


Carl, Charlie, and Bob,

Thanks for the clarification on my questions.

Sounds like maybe I'll stick with two SD40-2 and include a lone SD40 (still to be repainted) as my primary 3-unit SD power on my pike. I also have SD9, 24, 35, and 45 power to draw from, but the SD9's will probably work as a pair, the 24's will be with a trainmaster or together, and the 35's/45's may mingle if I can find evidence they did that when I have more time.

Thanks again!
David

On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 11:19 AM Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:
David,
Southern would typically take receive new units dead in tow, from EMD at Louisville. Since Southern used K&IT terminal in Louisville the new units would continue in tow to Danville, KY where the Mechanical Dept. would inspect and officially take delivery. They would then operate to Chattanooga. As Carl has said on Southern merchandise trains standard power was three SDs or four GPs so the SD40-2 got mixed in pretty quick. One exception was that once they proved  their reliability, solid consists of SD40-2s became standard power on a number of the unit coal trains.
Charlie

locked Re: SD40-2 initial delivery questions

David Friedlander
 

Carl, Charlie, and Bob,

Thanks for the clarification on my questions.

Sounds like maybe I'll stick with two SD40-2 and include a lone SD40 (still to be repainted) as my primary 3-unit SD power on my pike. I also have SD9, 24, 35, and 45 power to draw from, but the SD9's will probably work as a pair, the 24's will be with a trainmaster or together, and the 35's/45's may mingle if I can find evidence they did that when I have more time.

Thanks again!
David


On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 11:19 AM Charles Powell <charlesspowell@...> wrote:
David,
Southern would typically take receive new units dead in tow, from EMD at Louisville. Since Southern used K&IT terminal in Louisville the new units would continue in tow to Danville, KY where the Mechanical Dept. would inspect and officially take delivery. They would then operate to Chattanooga. As Carl has said on Southern merchandise trains standard power was three SDs or four GPs so the SD40-2 got mixed in pretty quick. One exception was that once they proved  their reliability, solid consists of SD40-2s became standard power on a number of the unit coal trains.
Charlie

locked Re: SD40-2 initial delivery questions

Robert Graham
 

Correct on snowplows; SOU SD40-2 3244 was the first SD40-2 with plows, and they continued up to 3328, the highest numbered SD40-2.

Bob Graham 

-----------------------------------------

From: "David Friedlander"
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io
Cc:
Sent: Thursday February 17 2022 1:45:49AM
Subject: [SouthernRailway] SD40-2 initial delivery questions

Hi all,

Looks like 3rd Rail is finalizing orders for their O-Scale SD40-2, which the tooling allows them to accurately do Southern's initial batch of SD40-2, units 3201-3208. I'm teetering between getting two or three units.

Does anyone know if the initial SD40-2 batch was run in pairs or triplets when they first arrived on the Southern? Were any groupings of numbered units specifically ran together for any initial period of time (eg- units 3201-3203 were consisted together for a year)? Were SD40-2's immediately mixed in with SD40's?

Also, just to verify, but I believe only units including and after 3244 had snowplows, right?

Thanks as always,
David Friedlander

locked Re: SD40-2 initial delivery questions

Charles Powell
 

David,
Southern would typically take receive new units dead in tow, from EMD at Louisville. Since Southern used K&IT terminal in Louisville the new units would continue in tow to Danville, KY where the Mechanical Dept. would inspect and officially take delivery. They would then operate to Chattanooga. As Carl has said on Southern merchandise trains standard power was three SDs or four GPs so the SD40-2 got mixed in pretty quick. One exception was that once they proved  their reliability, solid consists of SD40-2s became standard power on a number of the unit coal trains.
Charlie
locked Re: SD40-2 initial delivery questions

Carl Ardrey
 

Standard was 3-SD's or 4-GP's on manifest trains.  Specific models didn't matter.
CEA

On 02/17/2022 12:45 AM David Friedlander <davidjfriedlander@...> wrote:


Hi all,

Looks like 3rd Rail is finalizing orders for their O-Scale SD40-2, which the tooling allows them to accurately do Southern's initial batch of SD40-2, units 3201-3208. I'm teetering between getting two or three units.

Does anyone know if the initial SD40-2 batch was run in pairs or triplets when they first arrived on the Southern? Were any groupings of numbered units specifically ran together for any initial period of time (eg- units 3201-3203 were consisted together for a year)? Were SD40-2's immediately mixed in with SD40's?

Also, just to verify, but I believe only units including and after 3244 had snowplows, right?

Thanks as always,
David Friedlander

locked SD40-2 initial delivery questions

David Friedlander
 

Hi all,

Looks like 3rd Rail is finalizing orders for their O-Scale SD40-2, which the tooling allows them to accurately do Southern's initial batch of SD40-2, units 3201-3208. I'm teetering between getting two or three units.

Does anyone know if the initial SD40-2 batch was run in pairs or triplets when they first arrived on the Southern? Were any groupings of numbered units specifically ran together for any initial period of time (eg- units 3201-3203 were consisted together for a year)? Were SD40-2's immediately mixed in with SD40's?

Also, just to verify, but I believe only units including and after 3244 had snowplows, right?

Thanks as always,
David Friedlander
441 - 460 of 1904