Locked Re: FDR Funeral Train Footage

Curtis Brookshire

Will, I wish you luck in finding footage of funeral train other than the few snippets appearing on the web. All I've ever seen were shots of the train departing Warm Springs and backing into Union Station Washington. There is footage taken from the moving train of the trackside crowds and revealing lineside locomotives you noted. That footage was most likely taken in either Georgia or South Carolina. I visited the FDR Library in Hyde Park NY many years ago, but they told me they had no video or motion picture footage in their archive. I would recommend the National Archives, Smithsonian or the Library of Congress as they might have something that's not available anywhere else.
Some book sources:
When FDR Died, by Bernard Asbell. Most accounts of the funeral used by other FDR biographers draw from this book.
The President Travels by Train, by Bob Withers
FDR's Funeral Train, by Robert Clary
As far as engines used:
PS-2s 1262/1337 Warm Springs - Atlanta
PS-4s 1409/1394 Atlanta - Greenville
           1401/1385 Greenville - Salisbury (1401 w/American Flag from Spencer Shop)
           1400/1367 Salisbury - Monroe
           1366/1406 Monroe - Washington
Note: the train used both the lowest and highest numbered Ps-4s 1366 and 1409. As far as published photos from various books, there is a shot of the 1262 leadings the train entering Terminal Station in Atlanta flanked by the honor guard of soldiers. There are aerials shot near Clemson and Greenville SC by an Army Air Force plane, a photo of the 1401 outside the Spencer roundhouse with the flag attached, and an amateur photo of the train climbing Fairfax Hill in Virginia with the 1366 and 1406. 
In the 1970s mini-series "Eleanor and Franklin", the funeral train is included in the second installment which covered FDRs White House years with 2-8-2 4501 playing the role of the 1262 in scenes departing Warm Springs and in GA, and as 1409 during the night of April 13, 1945. 

Best wishes with your search. If you find something "new", please let us know.
Curtis Brookshire, Pine Level NC

Locked Murphy branch in 1970s especially Murphy trackage and industries, information required

Alexander Smart

I’m Sandy Smart, SRHA member living in Oban, Scotland, UK.
A long way from NC!

I’m hoping to model Murphy in the mid 1970s, both Southern and L&N tracks, and I’m looking for some help in collecting relevant data and information.

I have the Michael George books and the October 1984 Model Railroader article, also the Southern Valuation Drawing Set Murphy Branch set, which is dated 1921.
I’ve tried to use the Sanford Fire Insurance maps for Murphy but again they are sketchy and out of date.
Also I can’t find appropriate aerial photos of Murphy.
So progress is a bit slow at the moment.

I would love to hear from members who remember Murphy at that time and can help me out. A railroader from that time who operated the yard would be ideal!

I need an accurate track plan to allow layout planning.
I need information and photos of all the industries eg Ivester Pallet Co., the lumber mills, the LPG storage tanks, team track and wood platform, Standard Oil Co., and of course the pulpwood yard.

I know a fair bit about locos used then, but need more information about cars used and typical consists.

Also employee timetables, switch lists etc.

Most of all as many photos as possible!

I would be be grateful for any assistance you guys could offer!

Thanks a lot.

Kind regards

Sandy Smart

Locked Nashville-Knoxville sleeping car

George Eichelberger

There are so many potential “stories” among the Southern Railway Presidents’ files in the SRHA archives, there is simply no way many of them can ever be written about. I’ve attached an example of a subject we can only say is “obscure”, a Knoxville-Nashville sleeping car that ran on the Tennessee Central.


PS The April SRHA archives work session is set for April 21st and 22nd. Note that may appear incorrect but it IS the third Friday and Saturday of April. Saturday the 1st and Friday, March 31 do not “count” as an April Fri/Sat. Visiting or doing research at the archives is possible almost any day someone plans to be in Chattanooga but send a note to archives@... to make a plan.

1941-5-5 Nashville-Knoxville sleeping car.jpeg

Locked FDR Funeral Train Footage

Will Kesler

When the FDR funeral train came through the different towns and cities does anyone have or know where to find a video (If there are any) of the find a video of the train going by? All the footage I can find is from the back of the train and only shows the observation car while you can see smoke in the front. You can at least see a G class 2-8-0 and the tender of 4902 in the background along with unidentified switchers. I know multiple Ps-4’s and 2 Ps-2’s were involved in the train including 1401. If there is not any footage of the engines running does there happen to be any photos of the engines? I know there are some but the ones I’ve seen are from a distance. Any help would be appreciated.

Locked Re: [bbfcl] Southern Tobacco Hogshead cars

Jim King

I think some were used to haul hay from Kentucky or points north to the south many years ago during a really bad drought.  I thought that was a neat way to utilize such massive cars to haul bulky, lightweight, cargo.


      Jim King

P: (828) 777-5619

E: jimking3@...



Locked Re: Found a way to make your own customized ticket dater

Lee Bishop

Those roll over date stamps have the years as a single stamp, and only in a tight timeframe from when it was made. In other words, any stamp you buy today will probably have 2023 to about 2030 or so. I suppose you could scrape down the '20' for each of those years, but even then it'd only work if your layout take place 100 years ago.

Locked Re: [bbfcl] Southern Tobacco Hogshead cars

George Eichelberger

Yes to “1965”.

The “problem” with these cars is they were not a single design, blt. date or carbuilder. (Someone had plans to produce an HO model. SRHA provided the drawings, then pffft, nada. It makes it difficult for us to do research for mfgr’s. with no track record or folks we do not know.)

Here’s a 1960s freight car diagram book page* for the car in Tim’s photo, 9799. It was built as Southern’s Coster Shop in Knoxville as a “prototype”. Production cars built later by P-S were similar but had several variations. 

*Southern never really built rolling stock. This was one of D.W. Brosnans’ effort to attract new business. I don’t know how often they were seen off the Southern or not in VA and NC (“plate ??”).

To my knowledge, their last use was for carrying auto tires…


*Would anyone be interested if SRHA published the diagram book? We have sold around 500 copies of the 1970s version in a three Volume set. (They may still be available from SRHA?)

1960s Freight Car Diagram Book 32-F-93 Pg 47.jpeg

On Mar 20, 2023, at 11:29 AM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

The first cars definitely existed in 1961, equipped with roll-up doors ! I'm not sure if later cars were built new
with plug doors, or whether they were just rebuilt with plug doors. But I do know that plug door cars and
roll up door cars were both in service by 1965. No doubt an equipment register, or IKE, will have more
information. :-)

In HO scale, Ambroid produced a kit for the car. I know because my Dad built one. These cars continued
in service for a very long time!

On 3/20/2023 9:26 AM, Bob Weston via wrote:
When did Southern first build these cars? Photo by Karl Geffchen, Allentown, Pa. 07-03-00 from George Ellwood's fallen flags website. Bob Weston


sou_9799 84ft_SD_box hogsheads-load brand-new-paint 9-1961.jpeg

Locked SRHA Archives emails now being forwarded

George Eichelberger

With apologies to everyone that sent an email to “archives@...” over the past year, most were not being forwarded.

I will attempt (very) belated responses to as many as possible but please re-ask questions or requests if possible to archives@....


Locked Re: Found a way to make your own customized ticket dater

andrew tailby

But with the date stamps you can roll over the numbers like the ones with the 6 digits.
So 2 for day 2 for month and 2 for yr 

On Wed, 15 Mar 2023, 2:53 am Lee Bishop, <leebishop1944@...> wrote:
The only problem with date stamps is that they're all for current times and how almost nobody models today...

Locked Re: Found a way to make your own customized ticket dater


They might be willing to customize the year for you.

Tim Rumph
Lancaster, SC

Locked Re: Found a way to make your own customized ticket dater

Lee Bishop

The only problem with date stamps is that they're all for current times and how almost nobody models today...

Locked Found a way to make your own customized ticket dater


Check out this website that makes highly customizable dates stamps that can also be used as ticket daters:

btw they also make custom corporate seals, so if we know what the original railroad seal looks like we could easily make our own.

Locked Southern OC-21 at TVRM

George Eichelberger

Work on Southern OC-21 (It has been “hiding” as NS-8) at TVRM is progressing nicely. Adding HEP piping over the “new” swing hanger trucks took a while to get right but the work has progressed to getting the truck mounted brakes installed and tested.

The photo, from Ryan Miller at the TVRM shop, shows the car being moved around to check the trucks. New truck center plates were fabricated by a shop over in Ala. using SR drawings from the SRHA archives. (SRHA always makes whatever information we have available for anyone restoring Southern equipment. Contact me if the archives might be able to help….That also applies to any of the model manufacturers doing Southern prototypes.)


PS No doubt, additional donations are needed before OC-21's interior and exterior are finished. Contact TVRM President Tim Andrews if you’d like to help.

Locked When were railroads required to re-number cars from revenue if used in non-revenue service?

George Eichelberger

The Southern, and I expect other roads, did not change the road numbers when “revenue” freight cars were permanently assigned to non-revenue services until around 1955. (Many kept their original numbers well past '55.) Southern and Central of Georgia cars modified and “converted” to non-revenue use were given new prefixes and road numbers as early as 1900; X for cabs, B for boarding cars, T for tool cars. etc. Some modified cars kept their revenue number, and ICC freight car account 53 (?) in their new non revenue service for some time.

Part of the reason for the change was to keep old company service cars out of interchange. Can anyone explain if the change was dictated by an ICC order or AAR decision? In the 70s (?) renumbered non-revenue cars were to be further identified by painting them in a special color.

(Southern’s non-revenue color was orange. The color did not weather well so describing a precise color is not easy. When the instruction arrived from the ICC/AAR(?), the Southern had no standard for non-revenue paint. When asked, the VP responsible for the decision simply chose orange….the color of his alma mater, The University of Tennessee.)

Sou 117390 has been modified as an “end” car for one of the Southern’s “CWR” (continuous welded rail) trains but carries its revenue flat car number. Note the sides are to keep the ends of the rails lined up with the car but the rails are not otherwise restrained, a “hold down” car in the middle of the train held the rails at their mid point so they were free to move toward both ends.


Locked O scale details for a SRR RS3?

Lee Bishop

I’m trying to find detail parts for a Southern RS-3, as I’ll need the marker lights they all had, as well as the bell.
Does anyone have a line on anyone who makes the right marker lights in O, or (dare I ask), the bell?

I want to make ET&WNC 209 or 210 out of a 3-rail Weaver dummy I got a while back, as they were stock SRR/CoG units but with new markings until they deceided to replace the white stipe with orange:

Locked Central of Georgia ICC files at SRHA

George Eichelberger

In addition to the many (!) Southern Railway System ICC files and ledgers at the SRHA archives, there is a considerable amount of material on the Central of Georgia's fixed plant and rolling stock. I’ve attached an example page from December, 1961 from ICC account 53, freight cars as an example.

It’s obvious from the ledgers that 1960 and 61 were tough years for the Central. There are many pages of freight cars declared obsolete and taken “off the books”.

Many/most of the Cof G ledgers have been scanned. If we can get the scans inventoried and organized, we can determine which are missing.

Anyone (seriously) interested in CofG rolling stock, buildings, depots or other fixed plant hardware is welcome to come to any of the SRHA work sessions to help.


Locked Trains show THIS Saturday in Harrisburg, PA, Saturday, March 11, 2023

Cohen Bob

            Just a little reminder that the annual Harrisburg Chapter, NRHS train show will be held this Saturday, March 11th, at the Scottish Rite in Harrisburg, Pa, from 9 to 3. The address is 2701 North 3rd Street. You can google it to get the specific directions for your particular needs.

            That said, in addition to the show, the chapter's Harris Tower will be available to visit during the day. That is in the train station and was where all the east-west trains were cleared passing between NY, Philly and points west via the cross-state mainline of the Pennsylvania RR.

            So far as the show is concerned, lots of goodies should be available for you to peruse and commit to your share of "recycling", which is what we all do at these shows, don't we?

            Books, magazines, timetables, models, photographs, parts for your model trains and layouts, as well as likely some railroadianna there as well and who knows what else.

            There should be sufficient parking and there is an admission fee ($5). So come on down and help support the club and visit the tower while you are at it! It's not usually open, so grab the opportunity while you can.

Hope to see you there.

Bob Cohen

Locked Potential Southern transfer cab article for TIES

George Eichelberger

An article on Southern’s transfer cabs is almost finished. In addition to cab re-numberings, built dates. shop dates, drawings and assignments, several photos show the cabs’ appearance over time.

The data located in the SRHA Hayne Shop files has been a good source of “company” information on everything from their history, design, modifications to their paint and stencil schemes….but there may be more? If anyone has any information, or photos, of the cabs they think might be useful in the article, please contact me at archives@... or (better) geichelberger@....

I expect to have a more or less complete version of the article at the March archives work session as well as the current draft of the Southern road switcher book. (My best guess at this point is the first SR diesels volume with end at about the Southern’s GP-30s. Sections on Southern Alco RS-1s, 2s and 3s are far along but total page count will dictate if they can be included in Vol I or should be in a future volume that includes GE four and six axle road switchers.)

The March archives work session will be on Friday and Saturday, March 17 and 18.


Locked Re: High Point Switcher NC


Hi Don,
thanks for your insights on the rosters for the various time periods. Building my own version of Thomasville but very much want it to have the right roster for the time period. Going to roll the period back to early 1970’s now to work with the RS3. Thanks again for your valuable guidance. 

Kind regards,

Locked Re: High Point Switcher NC


Hi Tim,
thanks for the information and the links. I have been a model railroader for many years but focus was on western roads until I came across the Hinkle Mill article in MRC and the laser kit. I know very little of the Southern but on that journey. I really like the old Alcos and their distinctive sound. An RS3 would look great switching the mill and surrounds so going to backdate to early 1970’s. I would be interested in learning more of your modelling. Thanks again.  
Kind regards,