Date   

locked Re: New to this group

Doug Alexander
 

Michael,  speaking of Facebook modeling sites, you might want to take a look at this one dedicated to modeling the Southern:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sou.rr.modelers/?ref=group_header

--
Doug Alexander
Atlanta


locked New to this group

Michael Shirey
 

 Hello all, My name is Michael Shirey and I am new to this group. I am part of the few Southern RR groups floating around Facebook. So thanks for the add to this one. I am a member of the PCRRHS and looking to becoming a member of the SRHA possibly in the future. I model a Modern Penn Central and Modern Southern Railway post 1982  because NS never happened.  

 In regards to the SRHA, I seen the memo put out the other day about the 2020 convention be cancelled. Does anyone know of any future plans to have a convention in Southern Indiana on the East or West district?





Thanks, Michael Shirey 






locked Archives Work Session April

Jim Thurston
 

We are cancelling the SRHA Archives Work Session scheduled for 17-18 April due to the continuing Covid-19 crisis

Next session is scheduled for 15-16 May, which is also questionable

We'll keep you posted

Jim Thurston
SRHA


locked TVRM

George Eichelberger
 

First, let me say this request is from me personally. I am not an officer of TVRM and the request is not from SRHA.

For an obvious reason TVRM is shut down so there are no visitors, or income at the museum, debt service and utility bills and other expenses continue although most employees have been laid off. Of course, whatever governmental funds that may be available are being explored.

Although the situation is not dire, whatever bills can be paid now are that much less to be concerned with later.

If you are interested in helping to keep the sounds of a Southern Railway whistle and history alive in the Tennessee Valley, go to their home page at www.tvrail.com, scroll down to “SUPPORT TVRM” THEN “DONATE” for details.

For anyone interested in helping to preserve Southern Railway equipment, such as office car #21, donations can be directed to that. That will not only move the car closer to being put in service, it will help put paid TVRM folks back to work as soon as the shop can reopen.

Thanks….

George Eichelberger

PS If not TVRM, after health and food services, consider a donation to your favorite railroad, or other, museum. All are facing the same situation.


locked SRHA Convention

Carl Ardrey
 

For those SRHA members on the list here's the latest on our convention plans.
CEA


locked US Navy Complaint Re Passenger Service To Camp Lejeune, NC 2-21-1952

George Eichelberger
 

We have been scanning and organizing all of the various passenger train related memos, orders and correspondence in the SRHA archives. (New files were created during different SR Presidents’ and file names and contents simply changed over the years. Files on particular subjects, such as individual passenger trains, will be reorganized to make their contents easier to locate. As much will be digitized as possible.)

As the attached bulletin, in the Southern Railway Historical Assoc. archives, from the North Carolina Railroad Association says “in a unique and unprecedented procedure” the US Navy filed a complaint with the NC Utilities Commission about passenger service to Jacksonville, NC and the US Marine Corps. base, Camp Lejeune in 1952.

Before the ACL route north from Wilmington was abandoned and removed , Camp Lejeune was served by a spur off the ACL in Jacksonville and the Gov’t owned Camp Lejeune Railroad that connected to the A&EC at Havelock, NC. (There is a file on the Camp Lejeune RR in the SRHA archives, certainly worthy of a TIES article. The line is still active to and from Lejeune. Trains of USMC equipment use it to get to US Navy ships at Moorehead City, NC as well for coal for the steam plant and general freight.)

The bulletin is attached. If anyone is interested in the text of the Navy’s complaint, it can be downloaded from Google Drive using the following link:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dF5Ft8m38CIghOY4gNQ6lTaEO35Vl-on?usp=sharing

Because the complaint involves several railroads, I’ve posted to to both the SouthernRailway and passenger .io groups.

Ike





locked Re: Southern and Southwestern Railway Club

Charles Harris
 

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=0yMwAQAAMAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=Ingalls

This link shows excerpts only.  From New Zealand I cannot seem to get the full text. Can someone help?


locked Southern and Southwestern Railway Club

Charles Harris
 

A follow up to earlier posts on this.     Please refer to info below re above club and where info might be available. As refers to Southern Railway and also other railroads.

I am looking for archives of the magazine issued by Southern & Southwestern Railway Club as attached.  Specifically the 1946 issues which should cover this:

Just looking for advice on above organization in the Atlanta Georgia  area. Where historical records of the club and club newsletters maybe held in Atlanta.  The issued Proceedings and a newsletter regularly for many decades.  Have been in contact with epowerrail.com who currently organize annual meetings etc, and they have not been able to advise location of historical archives.  Are you able to assist or place in your own newsletter my request.  Records maybe in a library of some sort in Atlanta. Any photos taken at this exhibition/demonstration would be great.

On March 21 1946, (ref Atlanta Newspaper 21 March 1946 Page: 14) the Ingalls 4-S diesel loco was on demonstration at Terminal Station Atlanta GA, to L&N, Seaboard, GM&O, and Southern Railroad, arranged by the Southern & Southwestern Railway Club.
How would of this loco got to Atlanta? what paper work would have been required. Was it part of a scheduled freight train? Would have travelled possibly on Southern trackage, from either Ingalls Iron Works in Birmingham AL or from Ingalls Shipbuilding in Pascagoula MS. Any reports provided at the time to the railroads of specifications,style, etc would be great. The only date I have is the one above. Not sure when it arrived in Atlanta or when it departed and to where. Eventually purchased by GM&O.

Your comments and advice where to locate would be great.

Charles Harris

New Zealand


locked Re: Info on last runs of Tr 17 & 18 found

George Eichelberger
 

The SRHA files on Trains 17 and 18 include correspondence and SR internal memos on the trains’ mail and Railway Express services. The mail was moved to a USPO “Star” route (the date may be in the file) and the Southern proposed moving express (it was considered profitable) by truck from Asheville to Murphy. That plan appears to have been moving along until trucking companies saw it as a way for railroads to enter the trucking business.

None of the items in the Murphy Branch files imply that was the Southern’s intent but the plan was abandoned because of the truckers’ opposition. That led REA to decided to continue the service with their own trucks.

Carrying mail on scheduled passenger trains the Southern wanted to discontinue resulted in some of the first COFC services on the railroad. When the Post Office recognized containers delivered to their facilities, rather than paying mail handlers at railroad stations, as a major cost savings, they adopted the concept to the point Southern started planning trains just for “piggyback” (i.e. “Rail-Highway) services. The advent of containerized mail gave the Southern a way to keep and grow that revenue at the same time it was cutting off passenger trains!

Ike

On Apr 1, 2020, at 6:06 PM, George Eichelberger <geichelberger@bellsouth.net> wrote:

Because the Southern wanted to take trains17 and 18 off, and attempted to increase patronage, over several years, there are a number of items in the SRHA archives on the topic. Most are scanned but now the scans need to be given searchable file names and an article for TIES put together.

I’ve attached one example..(from SRHA Archives Box 531D, File 26)

Ike

<1948-7-8 Trs 17 & 18.jpeg>


locked Re: Info on last runs of Tr 17 & 18 found

George Eichelberger
 

Because the Southern wanted to take trains17 and 18 off, and attempted to increase patronage, over several years, there are a number of items in the SRHA archives on the topic. Most are scanned but now the scans need to be given searchable file names and an article for TIES put together.

I’ve attached one example..(from SRHA Archives Box 531D, File 26)

Ike





On Apr 1, 2020, at 4:15 PM, Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote:

Recent discussions with Jerry Ledford, Bill Schafer and Frank Scheer (USPS expert) regarding last run of trains 17 and 18 on the Murphy culminated in what I found yesterday while digging thru online newspapers from 1947-48.  In the Waynesville Mountaineer (see attachment), a weekly pub, was an article dated 7-13-48 stating that the last run “from Asheville” would be 7-14 and “last train from Murphy” train would be 7-15.  Mail and express would then be handled in a “special car” sent out on the morning freight train.  This was temporary until the USPS could establish a highway postal service that replaced rail.  From photos taken by Wayne Brumbaugh (available from Bob’s Photo), we have proof that, on at least 1 occasion following the 1948 cessation of passenger trains, a double-headed 2-8-0 set with a single RPO/baggage and caboose (no freight train) was run.  We have no documentation associated with the photo but various pieces of the “Murphy Puzzle” indicate this is what is happening in the 2 photos.  Further, Frank Scheer states that, while the trains ended, the mail contract would continue until a suitable highway alternative was reached, which explains why the RPO/baggage was in use after 7-15-48.  The newspaper article also indicates that rail service would continue for mail/express.  Frank stated that the rest of the RPO/baggage was likely empty … only the mail/express section would have been manned.
 
I’ve read somewhere that there were 2 passenger trains operating on the line at the same time (17 and 18) and that they met (typically) around Addie or Willitts, maybe Bryson if the WB was running late.  There’s a photo of the WB #17 in the Willitts siding waiting on another train, “assumed” to be an EB freight, in Mike George’s book.  Timetable dated 5-30-48 shows #17 arriving in Asheville at 10:30 AM and Tr 18 leaving AVL at the same time which is physically impossible if the same equipment was used.  17 started at Murphy after 6:15 AM and 18 arrived Murphy 3:30.  The top of the column says “daily”, meaning these trains ran 7 days a week, yet the newspaper article indicates this may have been the same train and simply was “a turn” operating tri-weekly (6 days a week, not on Sunday) because it took 2 days per round trip.
 
Does anyone have info to confirm/expand or refute any of this?
 
Can someone scan the entire T/T #7 dated 5-30-48 and post here or send to me as a pdf?  I need to study the footnotes associated with Tr’s 17/18 on the schedule but I only have those 2 pages.
 
Jim King
 

-- 
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com<Waynesville Mountaineer 7-13-48 SOU ends psgr service on Murphy 7-15-48 page 1.pdf>


locked Re: Info on last runs of Tr 17 & 18 found

O Fenton Wells
 

Good info Jim, thanks for sharing 
Fenton 


On Apr 1, 2020, at 4:15 PM, Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote:



Recent discussions with Jerry Ledford, Bill Schafer and Frank Scheer (USPS expert) regarding last run of trains 17 and 18 on the Murphy culminated in what I found yesterday while digging thru online newspapers from 1947-48.  In the Waynesville Mountaineer (see attachment), a weekly pub, was an article dated 7-13-48 stating that the last run “from Asheville” would be 7-14 and “last train from Murphy” train would be 7-15.  Mail and express would then be handled in a “special car” sent out on the morning freight train.  This was temporary until the USPS could establish a highway postal service that replaced rail.  From photos taken by Wayne Brumbaugh (available from Bob’s Photo), we have proof that, on at least 1 occasion following the 1948 cessation of passenger trains, a double-headed 2-8-0 set with a single RPO/baggage and caboose (no freight train) was run.  We have no documentation associated with the photo but various pieces of the “Murphy Puzzle” indicate this is what is happening in the 2 photos.  Further, Frank Scheer states that, while the trains ended, the mail contract would continue until a suitable highway alternative was reached, which explains why the RPO/baggage was in use after 7-15-48.  The newspaper article also indicates that rail service would continue for mail/express.  Frank stated that the rest of the RPO/baggage was likely empty … only the mail/express section would have been manned.

 

I’ve read somewhere that there were 2 passenger trains operating on the line at the same time (17 and 18) and that they met (typically) around Addie or Willitts, maybe Bryson if the WB was running late.  There’s a photo of the WB #17 in the Willitts siding waiting on another train, “assumed” to be an EB freight, in Mike George’s book.  Timetable dated 5-30-48 shows #17 arriving in Asheville at 10:30 AM and Tr 18 leaving AVL at the same time which is physically impossible if the same equipment was used.  17 started at Murphy after 6:15 AM and 18 arrived Murphy 3:30.  The top of the column says “daily”, meaning these trains ran 7 days a week, yet the newspaper article indicates this may have been the same train and simply was “a turn” operating tri-weekly (6 days a week, not on Sunday) because it took 2 days per round trip.

 

Does anyone have info to confirm/expand or refute any of this?

 

Can someone scan the entire T/T #7 dated 5-30-48 and post here or send to me as a pdf?  I need to study the footnotes associated with Tr’s 17/18 on the schedule but I only have those 2 pages.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com
<Waynesville Mountaineer 7-13-48 SOU ends psgr service on Murphy 7-15-48 page 1.pdf>


locked Re: Info on last runs of Tr 17 & 18 found

Matt Bumgarner
 

I'll scan it for you later tonight or tomorrow morning.

Matt

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 4:15 PM Jim King <jimking3@...> wrote:

Recent discussions with Jerry Ledford, Bill Schafer and Frank Scheer (USPS expert) regarding last run of trains 17 and 18 on the Murphy culminated in what I found yesterday while digging thru online newspapers from 1947-48.  In the Waynesville Mountaineer (see attachment), a weekly pub, was an article dated 7-13-48 stating that the last run “from Asheville” would be 7-14 and “last train from Murphy” train would be 7-15.  Mail and express would then be handled in a “special car” sent out on the morning freight train.  This was temporary until the USPS could establish a highway postal service that replaced rail.  From photos taken by Wayne Brumbaugh (available from Bob’s Photo), we have proof that, on at least 1 occasion following the 1948 cessation of passenger trains, a double-headed 2-8-0 set with a single RPO/baggage and caboose (no freight train) was run.  We have no documentation associated with the photo but various pieces of the “Murphy Puzzle” indicate this is what is happening in the 2 photos.  Further, Frank Scheer states that, while the trains ended, the mail contract would continue until a suitable highway alternative was reached, which explains why the RPO/baggage was in use after 7-15-48.  The newspaper article also indicates that rail service would continue for mail/express.  Frank stated that the rest of the RPO/baggage was likely empty … only the mail/express section would have been manned.

 

I’ve read somewhere that there were 2 passenger trains operating on the line at the same time (17 and 18) and that they met (typically) around Addie or Willitts, maybe Bryson if the WB was running late.  There’s a photo of the WB #17 in the Willitts siding waiting on another train, “assumed” to be an EB freight, in Mike George’s book.  Timetable dated 5-30-48 shows #17 arriving in Asheville at 10:30 AM and Tr 18 leaving AVL at the same time which is physically impossible if the same equipment was used.  17 started at Murphy after 6:15 AM and 18 arrived Murphy 3:30.  The top of the column says “daily”, meaning these trains ran 7 days a week, yet the newspaper article indicates this may have been the same train and simply was “a turn” operating tri-weekly (6 days a week, not on Sunday) because it took 2 days per round trip.

 

Does anyone have info to confirm/expand or refute any of this?

 

Can someone scan the entire T/T #7 dated 5-30-48 and post here or send to me as a pdf?  I need to study the footnotes associated with Tr’s 17/18 on the schedule but I only have those 2 pages.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com


locked Info on last runs of Tr 17 & 18 found

Jim King
 

Recent discussions with Jerry Ledford, Bill Schafer and Frank Scheer (USPS expert) regarding last run of trains 17 and 18 on the Murphy culminated in what I found yesterday while digging thru online newspapers from 1947-48.  In the Waynesville Mountaineer (see attachment), a weekly pub, was an article dated 7-13-48 stating that the last run “from Asheville” would be 7-14 and “last train from Murphy” train would be 7-15.  Mail and express would then be handled in a “special car” sent out on the morning freight train.  This was temporary until the USPS could establish a highway postal service that replaced rail.  From photos taken by Wayne Brumbaugh (available from Bob’s Photo), we have proof that, on at least 1 occasion following the 1948 cessation of passenger trains, a double-headed 2-8-0 set with a single RPO/baggage and caboose (no freight train) was run.  We have no documentation associated with the photo but various pieces of the “Murphy Puzzle” indicate this is what is happening in the 2 photos.  Further, Frank Scheer states that, while the trains ended, the mail contract would continue until a suitable highway alternative was reached, which explains why the RPO/baggage was in use after 7-15-48.  The newspaper article also indicates that rail service would continue for mail/express.  Frank stated that the rest of the RPO/baggage was likely empty … only the mail/express section would have been manned.

 

I’ve read somewhere that there were 2 passenger trains operating on the line at the same time (17 and 18) and that they met (typically) around Addie or Willitts, maybe Bryson if the WB was running late.  There’s a photo of the WB #17 in the Willitts siding waiting on another train, “assumed” to be an EB freight, in Mike George’s book.  Timetable dated 5-30-48 shows #17 arriving in Asheville at 10:30 AM and Tr 18 leaving AVL at the same time which is physically impossible if the same equipment was used.  17 started at Murphy after 6:15 AM and 18 arrived Murphy 3:30.  The top of the column says “daily”, meaning these trains ran 7 days a week, yet the newspaper article indicates this may have been the same train and simply was “a turn” operating tri-weekly (6 days a week, not on Sunday) because it took 2 days per round trip.

 

Does anyone have info to confirm/expand or refute any of this?

 

Can someone scan the entire T/T #7 dated 5-30-48 and post here or send to me as a pdf?  I need to study the footnotes associated with Tr’s 17/18 on the schedule but I only have those 2 pages.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


--
Jim King
http://smokymountainmodelworks.com


locked Re: SRHA Among Ourselves

Bill Schafer
 

Um, the phrase is “Keep the Green Light shining.”  Just sayin’. 


Another iPhone-generated message

On Mar 19, 2020, at 18:08, Carl Ardrey <carlardrey2005@...> wrote:

All:
One of the benefits of membership to the Southern Railway Historical Association is "Among Ourselves" which comes in each issue of TIES.  I'm attaching the current issue of AO so you can all see what we are about.  TIES is great and our current membership is touching 700. Keep the Green Light Burning.
CEA
<2020-1 Among Ourselves.pdf>


locked SRHA Among Ourselves

Carl Ardrey
 

All:
One of the benefits of membership to the Southern Railway Historical Association is "Among Ourselves" which comes in each issue of TIES.  I'm attaching the current issue of AO so you can all see what we are about.  TIES is great and our current membership is touching 700. Keep the Green Light Burning.
CEA


locked Re: Vertagreen tank cars

Rodney Shu
 

Hope you and your family are doing well.
Guess the Leeds meeting has been cancelled.  I found two IC drink glasses that I would like for you to have when we get together.

Rodney


From: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io> on behalf of Marv Clemons <mclemonsjr@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 14, 2019 9:18 AM
To: main@SouthernRailway.groups.io <main@SouthernRailway.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [SouthernRailway] Vertagreen tank cars
 
Thanks, gents, for the plethora of information on the Vertagreen movements.  From your responses I've learned the shipments originated in Rockland, Florida and were routed Waycross-Jesup-Birmingham-Sheffield-Vertagreen, AL.

For forensic purposes, I've attached a copy of the morning consist copied at BT on June 26 1965 showing the tank cars coming in on the rear of #7.  I'm sure you'll recognize the other Southern consists, along with #33, SAL's Silver Comet.

I switched these cars on the rear of #7 & 8 while working the towers at Birmingham and Atlanta terminals. It was really strange seeing them tacked on to the rear of the heavyweight Pullman out of Atlanta. But this was the Brosnan era when passenger trains had become primarily mail, express, and in this case, expedited freight carriers.

Regards,
Marv


locked Re: Charleston Union Station

Marv Clemons
 

Would a similar file possibly exist on Birmingham Terminal Station?  I know there are scattered documents in the President's and engineering files, but it would be wonderful if a single file had been kept.

Marv Clemons


locked Re: Charleston Union Station

George Eichelberger
 

I forget this was in the SRHA digital files!

Ike



On Mar 15, 2020, at 4:30 PM, SouRwyFan via Groups.Io <blackaerocoupe@...> wrote:

Wow, interesting reading!
It opens lots of questions in my mind.
What cars were used as the coach station, each time?
Did they go back into service afterwards?
How long did the new Southern station last? 
Is it still standing or did it past into history like the Union station?
Kind of peaks your interest on the subject quickly.

Thanks for sharing Ike


locked Re: Charleston Union Station

George Eichelberger
 

I expect the coaches were 1400 series cars the Southern never planned to rebuild. The answer may be in the “passenger” equipment spreadsheet populated with info from the ICC records. A passenger car, ICC account 54, would have been changed to account 16 “Station and Office Buildings” about the time they were placed at Line St.

The drawing of the “depot” in the file you downloaded was from “Ripleys Believe it or Not”. The fluting on the drawing was never on any Southern hwt coach.

As you may have seen, for the locals rebuilding a Union Station may have been more about getting tracks off of the peninsula than building a new depot. The Southern, with only one passenger train at the time, did not care to spend the money and the Coast Line wanted to use only their N. Charleston station to avoid the backup move to the Union Station site.

Ike


On Mar 15, 2020, at 4:30 PM, SouRwyFan via Groups.Io <blackaerocoupe@...> wrote:

Wow, interesting reading!
It opens lots of questions in my mind.
What cars were used as the coach station, each time?
Did they go back into service afterwards?
How long did the new Southern station last? 
Is it still standing or did it past into history like the Union station?
Kind of peaks your interest on the subject quickly.

Thanks for sharing Ike


locked Re: Charleston Union Station

SouRwyFan
 

Wow, interesting reading!
It opens lots of questions in my mind.
What cars were used as the coach station, each time?
Did they go back into service afterwards?
How long did the new Southern station last? 
Is it still standing or did it past into history like the Union station?
Kind of peaks your interest on the subject quickly.

Thanks for sharing Ike

1381 - 1400 of 2287